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Iason and Raoul?

Poll #1385916 Poll about Raoul and Iason as tentative couple

There are some fan fics and fans' opinions that hint/display Raoul and Iason as past/current lovers. What is your position on that considering there is no such thing suggested in the anime/CDdrama/novel? (feel free to elaborate)

Raoul seems to me calculating, detached and power-hungry almost to the point of wishing to take Iason's place in the syndicate. No love there!
0(0.0%)
Raoul seems to me a dear and loyal friend, at most he is appalled by Iason's actions but he is overall only a genuinely concerned soulmate. That's what friends are for!
34(54.8%)
Raoul might be attracted to Iason but fails to come clear because of Tanagura's social rules that he absolutely doesn't want to break. Love requires courage!
21(33.9%)
I can believe that prior to the OVAs, Raoul and Iason were lovers and he hates Riki with a passion for obvious reasons. Jealousy is a bitch!
7(11.3%)

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( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
ms_maree
Apr. 18th, 2009 11:36 pm (UTC)
I wish I had the option of ticking more then one :)

I think it's a matter of interpretation. Being fannish often means picking up on subtext (not just sexual subtext, but the general themes). And I'm not necessarily convinced of autorial intent being absolute.

But it does come down to how it's written, if it's written well, a author can convince me of almost anything, if it's written badly, then, I probably won't stick around to finish the story.

Personally, I'm leaning towards Raoul being attracted/loved to Iason, much like Katze was attracted/loved him, but because of all the obstacles in society was never able to follow through, and possibly is in denial. And he was probably jealous of the relationship between Iason and Riki.

And the 'canon' doesn't make me think otherwise (yes, even the books). But, I can be convinced of anything other then that with a good writer, and if they invest some time fleshing out a backstory.
suxxxann
Apr. 19th, 2009 12:57 pm (UTC)
well, this one had only 4 choices, each of them very different from each other so in a way they were meant to be mutually exclusive. I am at least glad that nobody thinks Raoul is a full blown asshole, lol. I hope it remains that way in the remake.

In the book (and also in the CD drama) he does seem a lot worse like the first option of the poll, that's why I put it and I do not necessarily like Raoul that way, it doesn't even suit the plot.
kitsunebella
Oct. 9th, 2013 04:43 pm (UTC)
Raoul as an asshole? I never got that impression, even in the novel. He's pissed as all hell at Riki for screwing his pet Mimea who he hoped to be bred to a high class citizen. That part is very evident in the novel but downplayed in the original OVA. The remake may have it be along the lines of the novel and from what I've seen of it, Raoul is played 'straight' there, just as he was in the novel. He never stops demonstrating genuine concern for Iason's actions because he fears the worst of it.

Also I believed both Katze and Raoul cared for Iason, but on different levels. I think they both loved Iason and were both standing under the rays of the intense love that was developing between Iason and Riki. It becomes a source of confusion for Raoul...who conducts himself within the confines of pre-established order of this society...possibly for Iason too who has never had such strong emotions develop, until Riki came along. For Katze, the relationship between Iason and Riki symbolizes a hope and birth of a better world---an elite and a Ceres mongrel. Eventually, where these two people came from didn't matter----they discovered they loved each other regardless. Seeing this story has been likened to Romeo and Juliet, to me I've placed Raoul and Katze in the roles of the Nurse (Katze) and the Priest (Raoul).

Not sure. I could be totally wrong. But one of the things about anything literary, it always be up to interpretation.
kitsunebella
Oct. 9th, 2013 05:35 pm (UTC)
Raoul as an asshole? I never got that impression, even in the novel. He's pissed as all hell at Riki for screwing his pet Mimea who he hoped to be bred to a high class citizen. That part is very evident in the novel but downplayed in the original OVA. The remake may have it be along the lines of the novel and from what I've seen of it, Raoul is played 'straight' there, just as he was in the novel. He never stops demonstrating genuine concern for Iason's actions because he fears the worst of it.

Also I believed both Katze and Raoul cared for Iason, but on different levels. I think they both loved Iason and were both standing under the rays of the intense love that was developing between Iason and Riki. It becomes a source of confusion for Raoul...who conducts himself within the confines of pre-established order of this society...possibly for Iason too who has never had such strong emotions develop, until Riki came along. For Katze, the relationship between Iason and Riki symbolizes a hope and birth of a better world---an elite and a Ceres mongrel. Eventually, where these two people came from didn't matter----they discovered they loved each other regardless. Seeing this story has been likened to Romeo and Juliet, to me I've placed Raoul and Katze in the roles of the Nurse (Katze) and the Priest (Raoul).

Not sure. I could be totally wrong. But one of the things about anything literary, it always be up to interpretation.
kawanale
Apr. 19th, 2009 02:14 am (UTC)
Re-edit (still haven't figured out how to edit comments):

I always thought Raoul and Iason had something going on thanks to fanfiction which I came upon after seeing the videos on the Internet.

I have only read book 1 of the English translation of ANK, so no idea how things play out in the other four books I now have.

I find this situation of mine funny because I read Harry Potter and saw the movies before i got hooked on Harry Potter fanfiction, namely the Harry/Draco pairing. Reading the fanfiction after the canon gave me a new slant to Harry Potter, sort of reading between the lines and saying, "oh hey, see now, that's why it is entirely plausible harry and draco could hook up."

I'm doing things backwards with ank, so who knows! But for now I would say Raoul wants to be with Iason, but because of his inbred "Blondies don't have sex, especially with other Blondies" they didn't explore that aspect until Riki came into Iason's life.

This brings me to another puzzling thing. If Blondies aren't supposed to be sexual beings, then what made Iason do what he did with Riki? Who is to say Raoul isn't the same and that there isn't really some underlying situation going on between him and Iason?
suxxxann
Apr. 19th, 2009 01:28 pm (UTC)
I might be wrong but you cannot edit "comments", only the author of the thread (me in this case) can re-edit the top thread (but comments -mine or yours- cannot be edited)

Your last paragraph opens a can of worms, because in my opinion there are some parts of the novel which contains contradictions. The Ovas are a lot more fluid and strict in their plot development, there are far less contradictions, there might be "holes" ( = things not said or not said plainly) but there are not contradictions or at least there are some things that are contradictions if you have no other way to interpret them. (which I will post on this forum too)

Your sentence "If Blondies aren't supposed to be sexual beings" is explained to be untrue in this part of the novel (see chapter 2 near the end) MAJOR SPOILER HERE








-----------------------------------------
"'That thing' was arched backwards at an angle and engorged in a manner impossible to a common and ordinary human being.


Jupiter had taken care of the most minute details, including that mechanism.


Very few knew that the Elite were also perfect sexaroids of the highest calibre. "

----------------------------------------------


So as you can see Blondies are sexual being, it's just a very well kept secret.

What my guess is of the whole situation is that Blondies have sexual capacity and needs just like anybody else but they restrain them as best as they can. And as in our society happens, it's not WHAT you do, it's HOW MANY PEOPLE around it know it. Tanagura is a big gossip place apparently and a "scandal" can damage a reputation. Of course Iason being the n. 1 Blondie is subjected to more scrutinity than others. Raoul even if he seems n. 2 is either more descreet or less talked about. I bet the other blondies (in the OVAs you see some frames of other long haired blondies) can do pretty much whatever they want simply because they are less important blondies and they don't get the same level of scrutinity Iason has.

Tanagura has got no democratic process, nobody gets "elected". Iason is n. 1 and will remain so forever, so all the other "lesser" Blondies don't have the same exact societal pressure because they will never reach Iason's position.

I also suppose than sex between blondies is a lot more manageable than sex between a blondie and a pet/mongrel (they can keep the secret better). But I think it was inbred in them that all kinds of sex (with anybody) is a degrading thing. Then again it totally escapes my mind how watching 2 pets doing a degrading thing is a fine entertainment...

So at the end of the day Iason and Raoul could be possible, it's just that personally from their dialogues (both ovas and books/cddrama) it doesn't seem so. There is no sentence that make me say "yes, this could be a sentence from a former lover".

Have you read my PM?
ms_maree
Apr. 20th, 2009 09:14 am (UTC)
on the edit comment thing
I think you can edit your own comments, before someone else replies. I do it all the time in other communities and journals, but it's probably a paid account only option.

ETA: I haz edited ;)

Edited at 2009-04-20 09:16 am (UTC)
sorceress_rin
Apr. 19th, 2009 10:43 pm (UTC)
This one kind of confused me. I had always thought that they had most definately been lovers in the past but that is because i first became an Ai no kusabi fan through the fanfic Taming Riki. I have read a translation of the book and seen the OVA's as well though but Iason and Raoul as passed lovers always just seemed to fit perfectly.
irmina1
Jun. 7th, 2009 06:17 am (UTC)
I don't believe that Raoul and Iason have ever had past relationship. Even if Raoul had feelings for Iason, he chose to remain Iason's second in command and friend, and support and concern about Iason. I don't believe he's jealous or hate Riki, he is simply concern that Jupiter will be angry and Iason will lose his position. He also doesn't want to be the one to tamper with Iason's mind if Jupiter ever gets angry of Iason, because Iason is his dear friend.
kitsunebella
Oct. 9th, 2013 04:27 pm (UTC)
Though basically wishful thinking on many levels--(yours truly among them) none of the OVAs nor the novel makes it appear that Iason and Raoul were or are lovers. My take is that they have a very close friendship, bordering on a brotherly kinship. Raoul serves as Iason's confident and he along with Katze are the ones closest to Iason and know of his growing relationship with Riki, however dangerous according to this society's roles as it is. Raoul tries his best to act as Iason's voice of reason to his actions, which he views as unseemly given his position as leader of the Tanagura Syndicate. Raoul points out how reckless Iason's behavior is and he states all of his apprehensions but he doesn't interfere other than that. He still harbors resentment toward Riki because of the incident with his pet Mimea (her fate is never really explained but becomes to my mind Ms. Irrelevant, but within the story's context she's one of those characters who falls under the heading of 'Small Role. Big Impact.'), but after all the skimming around I've done so far within the novel (her fate wasn't very pretty--probably ended up in one of of Midas's brothels or made into a sex toy). But back to the topic at hand----though we'd love to know for sure, I'd rather not think that way. I don't remember Raoul's reaction to Iason's death at the end of the original OVA----- my idea of it is one of both anger, utter sadness-----he will be the one who would be upholding Iason's legacy and reputation by making sure that the circumstances surrounding Iason's death are never revealed. It would be the final act of loyal friendship he will do. Katze's reaction (both in the novel and the OVA--- still breaks my heart).
( 10 comments — Leave a comment )