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i need answers badly. PLEASE READ! please...i beg you... 
29th-Apr-2007 06:52 pm
i have to get this out. it's killing me...i need men to read this, specifically; i don't know why they'd be on this site...but i need to know that not all men are rapists. So...I wasn't brutally raped or anything like that. It was at my friend's farm house. This guy I had had a couple casual dates was there. We all got wasted (Hell - it was the summer after our freshman year of college, we were on a farm, what else were we going to do?) I made the mindless choice of gettind drunk even though I was on heavy painkillers after getting my wisdom teeth out earlier in the week. I got too drunk and the Vicodin basically knocked me out. That guy and I "had sex"...meaning he shoved his penis into me when I was passed out; I had never ever wanted that...I have only had sex with guys I've been dating for months. That's all I'm comfortable with. Apparently I didn't say no...apparently I let it happen...all I know is that I woke up with a pain that can only come from something strange being shoved into a dry vagina...I was in shock.

This stupid STUPID event has caused very mixed feelings about men in me. The boy who "raped" me (I didn't even think it was rape at first because it wasn't violent...) didn't want to be called a rapist by anyone. He said, "well, you can think of me as a rapist, but I'm not, and no one else thinks so either." My girlfriends didn't believe me. All of a sudden the world was crashing down on me. I didn't tell the police or anything; I think it's horrible when guys get in trouble for making fucking idiotic mistakes...which is what he did...but...at the same time, he didn't know until much later that I had to go through therapy, had subsequently lost my sex drive, and was paranoid about guys' motives around me constantly. I am starting to get through it all...but it really has changed me forever.

I have mostly all guy friends. I have a twin brother; I always have had mostly all guy friends. I remember distinctly during puberty that my friends who were all boys started treating me differently. I got breasts in the 4th grade. I was isolated. I didn't know how to really be friends with girls; I missed the way guys were friends with each other, I didn't like girly drama; I liked goofing around and making stupid jokes; I enjoy the kind of friendships that guys have with each other. Once they started commenting on every tits & ass set that walked by...I felt alone. Who was I? More importantly, who were those girls that they always talked about? Why were they so great? I felt jealous that those girls got all the attention...and I felt angry that all of a sudden, I was banished to a realm of existence that made it so I couldn't relate to my friends.

The more things change the more they stay the same. I have a group of guys I hang out with. They aren't goony masculine guys who treat women like prey, but I still don't understand their ideas about women. Sometimes I say things to try to freak them out just to balance the fact that they say lots of things about women that freak ME out. I told them the other day that I want to become a stripper so I can make lots of money by toying with the minds of men...I would hate that life, by the way, being reduced to my body. I hate that. It's not MY fault I was born in this body. I used to want a beautiful womanly body with all the curves and everything...now I have it. People tell me I'm exotically beautfil; I can see why...but sometimes I just hate being in this body. I fantacize about being a man and degrading a woman of the physical ideal of our times. I wish I was a man so I could have the privilege to humilatie someone else...not bein the one that's humiliated.

I hate these thoughts. Are all men rapists? Would you all take the opportunity to jump my bones if you had the chance? The more I dig myself into this way of thinking the more paranoid I feel. The funny part is, that I don't want to dominate men in the bedroom as a form of revenge...I want to be a man and do that to women! I don't know why...maybe it's because I've always hung around guys and I wish I could relate to them in that way. I have nothing in particular against women except the many that perpetuate their image as hot bodies with holes in them in which you can fuck.

I am so upset...I am so confused...I am a beautiful woman. I am a beautiful fucking woman and I even have a loving boyfriend and good friends...but I am distrubed by the littlest comments in conversation. I'm taking an abnormal psych class right now and I couldn't even focus on reading about sexual disorders and paraphilias...I had to once drop a class because there was too much content about implied rape...I can't engage in conversations about prostitution or stripping or any thing in the sex industry because I am so painfully biased...it makes my skin crawl.......

Basically it reminds me that, at the end of the day, i am just a body with holes in it in which you can fuck.

What is WRONG with me? I had this dream after the rape all the time: me, willingly tying myself up to a fence on the side of the road or something, sprawled out naked with a sign that said: "Please fuck me. Please fuck me. This is my use. This is my divine purpose in the Universe."

Help me gather some insight into my thoughts...these are things I am not allowed to talk about...literally no one understands, men and women don't understand for different reasons, and, besides, it's taboo anyway. I need to get out of my own fucking head. What do you think.........
30th-Apr-2007 12:51 am (UTC)
I'm a woman, so I can't give you a man's perspective, but I can give you the perspective of a married woman who is a rape survivor (20 years last July).

Not all men are rapists. I have had my encounter with one rapist, and escaped being raped two other times. But not all men will rape. I know men who wouldn't rape. I've dated them, lived with them, loved them, broken up with them, kissed them, slept beside them. They didn't rape me then, and they wouldn't rape me, you, or anyone else. I've seen as sweethearts, all told, some 15 men. Some of them I had sex with voluntarily; the others I didn't have sex with at all. It is entirely possible to get into a dating relationship with a man and not be pressured for sex.

Men don't have to degrade women, either. I know men who would never dream of degrading a woman the way your male friends evidently do. You are so much more than a "body with holes in it that you can fuck". You are a lovely and intelligent woman with much to offer besides holes to fuck. And with the best of men, the ones you deserve to know as sweethearts, you can say No and have your no respected. You can sleep beside them, even naked, and wake in the morning unmolested in any way.

Your thoughts are not taboo, and I believe I understand where you're coming from; rape is the ultimate in degradation, and it can make us believe that we have to subsequently degrade ourselves, that we are worthless except as fucktoys. I've had those thoughts. I have known those feelings. They pass, and can transform into other feelings. But never feel that your emotions are irrelevant, taboo, or stupid. Please. Get them out; if you're uncomfortable with them, it will help to get them out where you can "see" what is making you uncomfortable, and learn other ways of believing or thinking about yourself that make you less uncomfortable. But everything you feel is a valid emotion. Every thought you have is yours, and therefore not taboo.

Get in touch with me if you want a further listening ear. My LJ handle followed by at livejournal dot com will get me by email.
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30th-Apr-2007 04:40 am (UTC)
that's what my only good girlfriend at the time said...basically. i told her what happened and she said, "um...rachel, that's rape." i can't believe it; the thought never crossed my mind at the time. it really changes everything when you look at it that way.
30th-Apr-2007 04:43 am (UTC)
also...your comment about some guy getting dragged to a bathroom and being ass raped...i've thought of stuff like that too. i always feel like that the only way guys will understand my situation; i think a lot of dudes just don't understand that a vagina isn't made for sex at any time and that if a woman isn't arroused (ie passed out) it will be as painful as being fucked in the ass...
1st-May-2007 02:58 pm (UTC)
Exactly (the above).
Also, a man who does this to a woman is a despicable coward.
30th-Apr-2007 02:34 am (UTC)
I second what the other two have already said. I'll also repeat what they said, and add that in my personal experience, not all men are rapists. I am married to a man who finds the concept of rape abhorrent, in fact he is the one who first told me that what happened to me with an exboyfriend was rape. I am also good friends with a man who also is not a rapist. I would trust them both, even if I were totally incapacitated. I know they wouldn't hurt me, and that's based upon their past actions and how they've reacted to the rape of others, their spoken views on rape and how they act in other areas of their lives.

It's okay to feel these things. What's not okay is to follow through to hurting someone. It's okay to talk about how you feel though, because by talking about it you get it out into the open, where you can look at it, so it stops festering. It's better to get it out, than to shut it away inside.

Maybe you're feeling like you want to humilate another woman because the rape made you feel like you lost all control? I don't know, but it's a thought. Things can set into our brains really deeply during traumatic events, even if it doesn't make any real sense in a regular setting. So by losing control of course you'd want to get that control back, and in our current culture, too many men feel they need to control women to be powerful. So your subconcious took the example of control and power over the rapist used on you to mean the ultimate and only true form of power and control. Then in order to feel like you have control and power again, you instinctively look towards the example that was set into your brain so deeply.

That's all conjecture on my part though, I could be way off.
30th-Apr-2007 04:47 am (UTC)
i think my "desire" to humiliate a woman comes from my frustration with how a lot of women who have never been raped feel. like...i can understand; before this happened, being raped was a completely foreign concept to me, but i get pissed off when i see all these sexy women every where...flaunting their God given shit. i get these violent desires to humiliate one of them - one of those girls who looks like she would be an rape target beacuse of her arousing appeal - the ones that dress slutty, the ones with fake tits. i don't look like that. i'm pretty damn modest...i guess i feel like justice hasn't been served when a nice girl like me gets assaulted and the girls that dress like that don't. of course, i don't really wish to do that...it's just a distrubing fantasy of mine that manifests my frustrations.......i also feel that way because i guess i think in black and white....either i have to be a victim or a victimizer. i know it's stupid thinking...but i guess it's just my feelings. thanks for you thoughts..
4th-May-2007 03:34 am (UTC)
I'm not sure how much of what you've just expressed is simply your feelings that have developed because of the rape and your anger, or how much you actually believe. The thing is, it doesn't matter how you dress, it really has nothing to do with whether or not you're raped. And dressing more provacatively doesn't automatically make a woman a "bad" person, and someone who dresses more modestly isn't necessarily any better than anyone else.

Dressing provacatively doesn't make someone a "rape target". I'm sorry, but it disturbs me to see you speak like that because it feeds into the myths of rape. It's akin to the idea that a woman "deserves" to be raped because of how she dresses or acts, and that's just not true at all.

You sound more angry with other women than you do with your rapist, almost as though you're somehow blaming other women. I think you really need to get away from your friends who are so hateful and prejudiced towards women. It's not healthy to remain in that environment because it just makes you doubt your own worth as a woman, or at least the worth of any other woman, and that's damaging to both you and the everyone else. I know I began to wonder if I was wrong, if women really were the way my abusive exboyfriend and his friends spoke of them. They were really misogynistic, and it was pretty discouraging to be around. It may not seem possible to you now, but there really are people out there who believe women are worth more than just fuck toys, and who believe in their equality and inherent worth.
4th-May-2007 04:50 pm (UTC)
i know this...i'm sorry. no one deserves to be raped. i think that's a given. but it seems like sometimes people don't understand the power of animal instinct. even if a guy doesn't rape someone, it can still be frustrating for him when a chick is basically hanging her shit in his face like a fucking carrot on a rope. even if a guy doesn't rape, i personally feel that there's a difference between displaying natural graceful beauty and indulging, glorifying, and exploiting one's own sexual power. i feel like many women do this last part...i feel like that's become part of the women's movement: to actively abuse one's own sexual power. if people were more mindful to the instincts and urges around them from other people and if they were more mindful to the negative consequences (not rape but frustrating some poor guy...) maybe girls would be a little more considerate and not perpetuate the image that CAUSES misogynistic ideologies. After all, misogyny basically comes from guys thinking that girls are supposed to look hot for them AND give them the kind of [sexual] attention they want. if girls would - not just in how they dress - but also in how they act and speak - OWN their God given sexual power and use it to display an image of something that is, culturally speaking, to be admired for natural beauty rather than someting that the misogynistic bastards want to fuck, i think we could make some change........ no more fucking boob jobs.... no more eating disorders...... no more outfits that amplify tits and ass........
5th-May-2007 01:09 am (UTC)
No need to be sorry, it's okay.

I can see your point, and I understand what you're saying, yet I look at it from a different angle. I don't see it as women perpetuating misogany because of how they dress, I see how they dress and act as being a direct result of our society's treatment of women and misogony.

I don't believe feminism, or the women's movement as you call it, encourages women to "flaunt" themselves and their sexuality in front of men. What I see the women's movement as having done, is encouraged women to feel proud of who they are, and how they look, regardless of what the men around them think.

Men are far more than just animals with "urges". Many men will play into that stereotype because they're immature, and think it gets them off the hook for acting like asses. Much of our society uses the whole "urge" rationale as an excuse, and to shove responsibility where it is most convenient, even though it doesn't belong there.

I agree with you that our society is too obsessed with looks, especially women. I feel this is the case because as women, we're told, in so many ways, that most of our worth is in how we look. Because a good portion of men are immature, those women who cater to the "sexy" standard are rewarded, even as they're objectified and victimized, often in very subtle ways.

As for eating disorders, and other, similar things, it's more complex than that. Even if there is less of a focus on looks, and how one dresses, we would still have people suffering from eating disorders, cutting, and the like.

Don't believe the lies you've been fed hon.
4th-May-2007 03:59 am (UTC)
This type of desire comes from an aspect of the survival instinct. You've grown to associate dressing sexy or being outwardly feminine as something that is dangerous - something that makes you a target.

So it's like seeing someone playing Russian Roulette - you have that hope that they learn their lesson the hard way, the way you learned it. It's a reaction that happens, but it's also a reaction that does need to be worked against, as it's an unhealthy reaction - it perpetuates the cycle of abuse.

This is definitely something that gets magnified by the black and white thinking. Something I'd suggest is to try to remember that people are just as likely to be assaulted, raped, or abused if they do not dress sexy as if they do. In fact in my own experiences, it was during the time I hid my body that most of my abuse happened.

This is a reaction that can be re-programmed, though it will take some focused work to do so. It's tough to dis-associate a behaviour with being assaulted, but one that's well worth the effort.
4th-May-2007 04:43 pm (UTC)
yeah...well, funny thing was, that when I was assualted, it was at a time when I was just starting to feel comfortable with my body, when i just finally started feeling pretty in my skin. my outward confidence and attitude was sexy, although i didn't really dress that way....

30th-Apr-2007 03:32 am (UTC)
We have many men in this community, so I'm sure at least one will chime in, too. But definitely, not all men are rapists. My husband (druidwolf is also a member of this community, but I want to share a part of his life with you - if I get quiet at all during sex, he *stops* everything and asks if I'm okay. It doesn't matter how into it he is, he stops everything and moves away until he is positive I still want to continue.

The good thing is, I've encountered more than a couple other men who were the same way - so there are definitely men out there who know the difference between yes and no, and who know the difference between "definitely into it" and "not quite there".

There's nothing wrong with you at all. Our minds are designed to teach us to avoid people who remind us of our abusers - even when it's a very general reminder (like they're the same gender). It's perfectly normal to fear men after being raped by one.

The trick is, over time, to re-build the trust. It's okay to let people earn every ounce of trust you place in them, regardless of gender. The fact that you see that your mind generalizes it to a gender is a good thing - you know it's something you need to work through, that you need to factor in. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.
30th-Apr-2007 12:23 pm (UTC) - MAY BE TRIGGERING
When I was a teenager, I lived with my abusive stepfather. One thing that he said to me has haunted me for 15 years: "You're just begging some man to come along and shove his meat in you."

That comment, and all the other disgusting things he said to me, set me up to believe that all I was to men was three holes to be fucked. When men wanted to fuck me, I would often let them, even though I didn't want to, because, well, that was my purpose in life. When I ended up in a relationship with good men who wanted me for more than just sex, I didn't, couldn't, believe them.

Eventually, I ended up in a 3-year abusive relationship with a man whose need for sex outweighed everything else in our relationship. Did I make him a sandwich, bring him a little present, spend ages rubbing his back when he was sick? That proved nothing. I only loved him if I would let him fuck me whenever he wanted to. I was his personal fuck-hole, and I had never felt so degraded and lacking in personhood in my life. After 2.5 years, I revolted. I couldn't let him touch me anymore. It made me cringe and scream uncontrollably.

Eventually, I left him. I was so damaged, I though that nobody would ever want me again. I went straight back to my "Let men fuck you because that's all you're good for" way of thinking. Luckily, the first man I let fuck me after that turned out to be a decent, loving, non-rapist type of guy, who loves me for me, and thinks that sex is fun and great when you both want it, but never pushes me. He seems to understand (or at least to accept) my issues with sex. I moved to England a year ago, and he stayed behind. Clearly, he's with me for more than sex, since neither of us is getting any at the moment.

It has taken a couple of years, and I still have times when I forget and go back to my prior mode of thinking, but now I believe that I'm worth more than just my body, and I don't hang around people who treat me, or any other woman, as a fuckhole.

I hope that helps. I hear how you feel. I felt very much the same. I'm getting over it. You can too. And not all men are rapists. Some men even prefer cuddling and talking to sex. I'm with one.
30th-Apr-2007 01:44 pm (UTC)
have you tried to seek any type of counseling for your rape? i believe a rape counselor would GREATLY help you put things in perspective and give you a safe place to talk about all your feelings. it took me 6 years before i went, and it's been a hard road, but getting out all these horrible feelings and thoughts has been a blessing!

safe hugs!
30th-Apr-2007 03:57 pm (UTC) - ::safe hugs::
This is long and mostly about me and the pieces of your story I empathise with, but I mean it to be validating: there is nothing wrong with YOU, there is something very wrong with people who disempower women to the point where they find themselves nothing more than a piece of meat at any point in their lives.

What he did wasn't some idiotic mistake. It was violence, objectifying violence, and I think it's horrible that people around you didn't believe or understand that. Of course you didn't say "no", you were unconcious and drugged! I hate that people belittled that reality.

I have the same desire sometimes to be a man, because somehow I identify being male with having sexual agency. For a long time I had fantasies of cutting off my breasts, since men seem to constantly obsess about them and they were a symbol of all I hated about being female. I have purposefully objectified men with my friends because it makes me feel less like prey when men objectify me. I play live-action fantasy roleplaying games and play younger-than-me female characters who wear real armor, and it reassures me when people still seem to find me attractive when I'm not helpless or objectifiable. It's like I get to go back and rewrite my past into one in which I'm allowed to get angry and have power.

It's difficult to remember some times, but there *is* a difference between thought and action. That choice makes us human. People can admire something without stealing it, and men can be attracted to a woman without raping her. You were taught that that wasn't the case, that men felt entitled to take what they admired, but he was wrong. He had absolutely no right to do what he did. Not saying "no" is not the same as saying "yes", and sex should always be consentual. It should always involve saying "yes".

Bodies don't do it for me. I'm attracted to people because of who they are, and the attitude they project. I don't understand, and it disturbs me, when other people seem to only need the body, because I'm afraid that that is all I am. I'm trying to reconnect with mine, so that they can admire both and I can have it be okay, but it hasn't happened yet.

One of my dark secrets is that I'm glad my boyfriend's vision is horrible, because when he takes off his glasses I know he can't really see what I look like. It makes it easier to believe he's attracted to *me* and not just my body.

I had the same thing where all my friends growing up were boys, and then turned into teenagers and were misogenistic guys. Even now, I have a few female friends but most people I relate best to are male. However, I've also found men who aren't assholes, who don't generally see people as objects and who accept that when they say something asshole-ish I *will* call them out on it. My "excuse" is that I went to an all-women's college known for being feminist, but the truth is that place just validated that I was right to feel uncomfortable with the prevalient attitudes, and give me the courage to sometimes say something about it.
30th-Apr-2007 05:24 pm (UTC) - Re: ::safe hugs::
ha...thanks for the post...

my boyfriend also has terrible vision. never thought of it that way though.

i guess i said "okay" when i was drunk and on the vicadin. i still think that doesn't mean a yes, right? because i was drunk and on pain killers? i mean, i don't remember, anything, except feeling trapped in my body and really uncomfortable. i probably didn't even know what he was asking me... i really can only think of a couple other times when i was that drunk...that...fucked up. i don't know if you get fucked up, but it's that feeling that you can't move your own body... i remember moaning and i KNOW it would have been moaning that was trying to express: "get off me, i didn't want this."

i hate that. because i guess *technically* i said yes, according to the "rapist." he said i said it was "okay." whatever. i hate saying that because it makes me feel like the whole "no is no" argument doesn't apply to me...but i wasn't in the position to say no, i guess...i don't know...

heh...i find myself with my guy friends making more objectifying comments about women...really crudely, when i notice them eying up some "bitch." i don't know why, but when i become a bitch about it i feel better...it's pretty fucked up, if you ask me.
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