jensuki ([info]jensuki) wrote in [info]yaoisuki,
@ 2006-07-24 10:08:00
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So, LoveManga posted some interesting news from an interview with Elegant Madness over here: DramaQueen will be publishing a "global BL" (e.g. Bl made by non-Japanese mangaka) called Rush, theoretically for release at this year's YaoiCon.

Read more.

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[info]anderson_t
2006-07-24 05:58 pm UTC (link)
LOL! Hi Jen!

I can tell you some things about it, at least from my perspective and why I signed on.

First off, and I want to make this clear, it's not being targeted to 'Japanese yaoi' fans. It's for fans of 'global BL' in every sense of the word. As I said in my interview, DQ is once again being quite revolutionary in terms of 'doing it for fans' and not just 'doing it for the most popular or heftiest of fan markets'. I was under the impression when it was presented to me in negotiations that DQ all ready accommodates fans of Japanese BL with licensed titles and plans to keep on doing so; but they wanted to make something for fans of western BL that didn’t come from Japan. One of the main reasons I signed on is because I don’t like how current fans of Japanese Yaoi here in the states are associating OEL/BL with what’s currently on the market and being touted as ‘yaoi’.

As stated in my interview, I truly think of RUSH as Global-BLs answer to BeBoy Luv. ^_-. Some stories are explicit, some are romantic, some are comedic, and some are quite serious. As for the book itself, I can tell you about my schedule which will likely give you some insight about RUSH in terms of how it’s going to be, but I have to respect my publishers wishes and keep mum on certain details. My story will appear bi-monthly, alongside five other series featuring the most unique and exciting OEL/BL mangaka/comikers who hail from Mexico, Guam, New Zealand, Italy, and the US respectively. Kudos to Drama Queen for having the guts to consider such a small market knowing it isn’t going to make them millions. At least some licensors out there are still considering the manga and its fans over market shares and what’s trendy.

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[info]jensuki
2006-07-24 06:10 pm UTC (link)
Are there many fans of "global BL"? It's not something I'd ever heard of as a distinct group before. Like you said, most OEL BL manga gets marketed as yaoi and to yaoi fans...would you say global BL would be marketed more towards slash fans? Or is there already a market for gay comics for women in the west?

I guess what I'm really trying to ask is, who does DQ expect to buy it?

You say your story appears bi-monthly; will it be a bi-monthly publication or a monthly? The stories from Mexico and Italy (and possibly Guam)-- are they being translated into English (or written in English to start), or are there already versions in their vernaculars?

Can you say if the art styles tend to be all manga-influenced or if some of them are more traditional western style?

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^_^
[info]anderson_t
2006-07-24 06:23 pm UTC (link)
Yes, there are fans of 'western BL' scattered throughout NA and Europe. They’re the ones who fuel art alleys and steer clear of big eyes/little mouth/ and glowing cones of light. One need only scout about the expanse of y!Gallery to find them online. They do exist. And Jen, slash fans are fans of slash, ^_^; this isn't slash...its male/male erotica for women.

Yes, Rush comes out once every two months. NOTHING is being translated into anything. These are all OEL stories made by creators, some of whom have modest followings in the 'scene' and some of whom will be making their debut. My story will be drawn by Italy's Laura Zel.

The art styles are all unique in their own way, and that's what fuels the western fan scene. Those who like western-BL like the hybrid of Japan influence and western style. Too much western looks lame, too much 'impossibly beautiful' just bombs. DQ's taken the time to look around and review portfolios and talk to fans to get a handle on what flies and what doesn't.

-Tina

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-24 06:49 pm UTC (link)
I'm curious now-- what's your definition of slash? 'Cause it sounds different than mine ;) Though mine's largely skewed by my time in the Harry Potter slash fandom, I have to admit.

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Re: ^_^
[info]anderson_t
2006-07-24 07:00 pm UTC (link)
You just answered your own question. Slash is just that...when you 'slash' what is otherwise a straight pair of men for the entertainment or erotic value. I griped recently about the misuse of the word 'yaoi fangirl' when describing fans who overdo it in terms of 'living for the hints' in my blog and reposted at the Tokyo Pop blogs http://www.tokyopop.com/gynocrat/blog/536.html

Yaoi/BL readers generally don't live to 'slash' but like the term 'yaoi' is now the catch all descriptor for 'all things male/male in manga'--I suppose 'slash' is the de-facto label for all things 'male/male' in live action. *sighs* What a revolting thought.

^_^
-Tina

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-24 07:07 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm, I guess the difference being that by your definition, "slash" necessitates the use of male characters created by someone else who aren't canonically paired together?

So "original slash" would be an oxymoron for you? That wouldn't be slash, but just homoerotic fiction, right?

Hmm. I see your point...but on the other hand, I tend to subscribe to the "common usage" theory.

Anyway! Back to the subject at hand-- would it be okay if I pasted the apropos parts of this conversation back on the article I posted to YS? :)

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Re: ^_^
[info]anderson_t
2006-07-24 07:13 pm UTC (link)
I guess so, you know Love Manga found this all ready 0_0; you media people work fast! LOL! Sure, I guess so. Thanks for listening to me.

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Re: ^_^
[info]dori_san
2006-07-24 07:16 pm UTC (link)
Tina has to come in now, she's been talking way too much, she can come out and play later next week. ^___^

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Argh!
[info]anderson_t
2006-07-24 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Drama Queen found meh! Sorry Jen. :(

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Re: Argh!
[info]jensuki
2006-07-24 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Haha, no prob, thanks for the chat :D

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Re: ^_^
[info]jordanmarks
2006-07-24 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Yay, another person who doesn't think the 'yaoi' and 'slash' are interchangable terms :)

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-24 10:42 pm UTC (link)
I think that the two fandoms as a whole are starting to become more aware of each other as separate entities-- much more than, say, five years ago, at least according to my observation.

Though I think a lot of people who are into both aren't sure how to identify themselves. The first yaoi pairing I ever enjoyed I came across when I was maybe 13; my original foray into a male/male fandom was with HP slash. Am I a slasher or a yaoi fangirl? If you ask me, I'm neither. If you ask the folks in #soulriders, I'm both and god save my evil soul. Y'know what I mean?

Meh, it all comes down to me hating labels and narrow definitions. @_@

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Re: ^_^
[info]jordanmarks
2006-07-24 11:05 pm UTC (link)
It's easy to say you hate labels, but labeling things is how our brains process data. I think overly loose definitions lead to more misunderunderstandings. There is a problem here with no general word for 'stories and sequential art that has males in romantic situations with other males and is usually aimed towards women.' Ok, I can see an argument for BL having that meaning, but most English speakers dont' seem to know that term. As for 'Original Slash', yeah, it's a bit of a contradiction but most people understand what's meant by it. It's a jury rigged term bevause we have no accepted general term.

I don't see myself as a slasher or a yaoi fangirl either. I am a fan of slash and a fan of BL/yaoi. When I see the term 'slasher' used it usually means a slash fanfic author.

I still think that the majority of slash fans would be surprized to know anyone had a definition different than [info]anderson_t's. The slash fans I know would certainly be confused and see yaoi as something very distinctly different. In fact, I will endevour to test that. For all the slash lists I am on it would way too of topic a question so give me a few days to find some good places to ask.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-24 11:23 pm UTC (link)
Fair enough, I'll elaborate: I hate it when labels are used to diminish people, and I hate it when people assign me labels (especially ones that don't apply to me). I don't actually hate labels/the concept of labels so much as the fact that they are so frequently misused-- and not just in terms of using the wrong labels, but also using them to avoid getting to know people, to be judgmental, etc.

As for "slasher"-- I am a slash fanfic author (it's one of those things that haunts you forever, apparently-- I still occasionally get comments/e-mails related to it). @_@

Aaaaaand as for [info]anderson_t's definition-- I wasn't saying that slash and yaoi are the same thing, or that the definition of slash should be broadened to include yaoi. I did question that the way she put it made it sound like "slash" necessitates the appropriation of another person's characters, which would negate the idea of "original slash," which is a growing subgenre. But like I said, people on the slash side and the yaoi side are both more aware of each other as separate than they used to be, it seems.

Of course, I'm coming from sort of a different "generation" of slash and/or yaoi fans than you...that sounds way smarmier than I mean it to, but it's still kinda true.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jordanmarks
2006-07-24 11:38 pm UTC (link)
Well, I was also partly responding to conversations we have had on the topic before.

In my opinion, 'Original Slash' is a contradiction in terms and is used for lack of a better word.

As for different generation, I don't think that is an issue, but what fandoms we are in is. I don't think older or younger Stargate fans have a huge gulf between them. But, I am far more into slash than you and none of my major slash fandoms have that overlap with yaoi.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-25 12:05 am UTC (link)
I'll have to disagree-- I think original slash makes perfect sense, because I think that slash-- like yaoi --has come to have a certain style, language, etc. of its own.

Kind of like how "pop" music has come to be its own certain style of music, even though the term was originally intended to refer just to whatever happened to be popular at the time regardless of gender.

I used to fight against this definition a lot, but I've kind of gotten over it...no sense fighting the evolution of language. People will use terms as they see fit.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jordanmarks
2006-07-25 12:40 am UTC (link)
*headdesk* About a month ago we had a debate about whether slash and yaoi mean the same thing and some of what you said there was what I was saying.

Bleh, sorry, I should have been responding to just what's written here and not other debates we have had.

The term 'original slash' does make sense to people who read slash. They can look at the term and understand what it means.

Someone can write pop style music and be unknown, but that doesn't change what the word 'popular' means.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-25 01:01 am UTC (link)
*blink* Was it really a "debate" or more of a discussion? I won't deny that maybe 5 or so years ago I might not have been sure that there was a difference, but definitely not a month or so ago. Or even a year ago.

Either way, sorry for not remembering ^^; I have so many debates with so many people on so many topics that I can't keep straight what I said to who on what topic. Hell, I can't even keep track of what just Scott and I have debated. You should SEE our logs @.@

Anyway, I don't understand what you're saying about why "pop" is okay and "original slash" isn't. Are you trying to say that original slash isn't okay because the average person who knows nothing about slash won't know what it is?

Because technically, if someone out there didn't know what pop music was, and they heard some of it, they probably wouldn't be able to identify it as pop music either.

And...someone can write slash fanfiction and be unknown and that wouldn't change the definition of slash fanfiction. Or someone could draw yaoi manga and be unknown and that wouldn't change the definition of yaoi.

...So...I'm not quite sure what you mean with that.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jordanmarks
2006-07-25 01:21 am UTC (link)
No, I don't have a problem with the term 'original slash'. My point was to say that the two situations were the same, not different, in the pop music comparison. I think there you got confused my how I meant 'unknown'. Something can't be 'unknown' and 'popular', but there can be unknown people who play pop music.

So, let me state it better. 'Joe Smoe's music is pop music, even though his music is not popular. This possible contradiction does not change the meaning of either word.'

My point is that we still don't have a perfect vocab, that I know of, for discussing some of this stuff. I'd like to see a generic term we could use to refer to FMA doujin, Lynn Flewelling's Nightstalker series and dirty stories about Jim and Blair from The Sentinel.

You are right, it wasn't a month ago, but it was fairly recent. I remember that the next day I went to meet those other people for sci fi friday and asking them thier opinions on it. It was the first night a certain girl started to show up.

Gah, and here I was thinking that it had been a while since we'd had any major communication problems ;)

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Re: ^_^
[info]jensuki
2006-07-25 01:28 am UTC (link)
It WOULD be nice to have a catchall term-- I'm in favor of campaigning to popularize something like BL.

As for the discussion...hmm, I was talking to Scott about it and he remembered us talking about it at Jack in the Box during AX, but it's not like we haven't had related conversations on this a half-dozen times. @.@

We HAVE been doing much better in person! It gets so much harder online when you lack eye contact and voice tones and crap.

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Re: ^_^
[info]jordanmarks
2006-07-25 01:53 am UTC (link)
*nods* Yeah, I could see BL becoming a term like that.

We had a long debate about it, but it wasn't at AX. We might have talked about it then, too.

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