"I think I'm lost."

Teach Me....NOT!

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:41:48 GMT

Your community hostess is no longer wreaking havoc in Japan. She's now turning Korea upside down. This isn't a very specific post, but try to stick with me here. It's been 6 months, so lotsa instances of culture-clash are flashing before my eyes.

Korea is not like Japan in the ways I thought and hoped it would be. Sure, I've had some good times here and I'm sure to have many more, but the business culture here is just...wow. Nn.

Common conjectures by the expat community go something like "This is Japan 40 years ago" and "Come back in 20 years - maybe they'll have figured it out by then". This will sound harsh, but business is conducted in Korea like a wino who's just won the lottery: they've got all this money - or pretend that they do - and just don't know what to do with it, so either it's spent haphazardly or barely at all. Example: First day of school, I walk into my filthy classroom and see no materials, no books, no games, nothing. Did they even know I was coming?

From my experience, their society doesn't seem ready to tackle the goals their leaders claim they can. The new president, Lee Myeung-Bak, wants all children in public school to be taught science and math in English! Wow! Great! Who's gonna teach them?!?! You can only pump out so many (great) English speaking Koreans from university and even then not all of them are going to want to teach elementary school (or at all).

Big plans...teeny tiny effort.

Their propensity for half-baked programing creates serious culture clash among foreign English teachers, who feel like they're wasting their time trying to work with a system that's got a lot of bark, but little bite. My biggest complaint at my last school was a lack of help. I was trying to do what they wanted me to do, but no one seemed interested in helping me when I asked and making sure things went smoothly. Turnover of English teachers in Korea has got to be a world record. It's hard to keep employees happy when they're tired of not knowing what the hell's going on and being told "Do This!" and then not getting the resources to "Do That".

Yes, Korea is hardcore when it comes to wanting to speak English. Hagwons for English learning thrive - one on every corner. Parents prod their children to "say hello" to the foreigner whenever possible (and damnit, the kid better - dad's spending thousands in afterschool programs!) The process for getting a visa has recently become more difficult, but rest assured they "want" us here. But that's a glorious facade that shields the fact that many of them are very literally afraid to learn/speak/encounter English on a daily basis. For all their English learning, many still don't know how to conduct simple human conversations. Like Japan, after a certain point, they stop learning how to speak and get bogged down in grammar, but it's also an odd case of xenophobia and resentment.* The president, with his grand schemes, seems to not realize that he's left the public in his dust. Amazingly, the people who seem to get along REALLY well with foreigners, aren't afraid to approach or be approached, are the Koreans whose English suck or is non-existent. I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that they just don't expect to understand precisely so it's okay, or is it a kind of 'ignorance is bliss' (don't mean that in a negative way) outlook that lets them feel comfortable around the "noise" of foreign-speak.*

A friend of mine, 42 and an experienced teacher, feels very unwelcome for a number of reasons despite all the backward bending she feels she's done for the administration, and I sympathize because I'm facing the same difficulties. The difference between us is that I've decided to play their game if but to make sure I'm making the maximum amount of profit for the headaches their practices give me. I stick to my guns, wave my contract around but still smile and thank them for their time.

Their culture, business and education-wise, is experiencing a major shift. The old ways have a death-grip on the new ideas that are being brought to the table. Japan, comparatively, has perfected the art of mixing tradition and international business, making my memories of employment with the government seem like a dream. I'm not quite sure how long it will take Korea to take a seat on the "sound international business sense" train, but right now, she's riding the roof.

* Sometimes I wonder if they didn't put so much value on English, if the resentment would wane, too. Also, the new generation, unlike the old, isn't sure that it "likes" the foreigners occupying the land. One article (not this one) I read described American forces only as occupiers and North Koreans as "cousins".
** I use "noise" because that is often how it sometimes sounds like, even for someone who's studying the language. Some friends of mine were actually asked (rudely) to "shut up" because they were speaking English

New here

Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:42:33 GMT

I'm not sure if anyone reads this community, it doesn't seem very active. That is too bad because I have been searching for a place like this! I've been in my intercultural relationship for a little over a year now..I'm from the Midwestern part of the U.S. and he is from Brazil. We moved in together in January and are really happy together. But, of course there are all kinds of cultural issues, ranging from small things that seem cute (he eats bananas in his soup?) to huge issues in our relationship (we have different ideas about privacy). I think inter-cultural relationships are some of the most challenging but also the most rewarding! Anyways, if anyone is still reading this community and wants to share stories, feel free to add me as a friend!
-Rachel

a study of American culture

Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:15:06 GMT

Hallo, I'm new to this community.
I'm a Russian who studies American culture.
I'm working on my postgrad thesis in lingvoculturology and cross-cultural studies and I'm asking you for help.

IF YOU ARE FROM THE USA AND YOU ARE A NATIVE SPEAKER, please help me (it's terribly difficult to find an American here in Russia and make him/her answer the
questions :))).

Please, give a detailed example – like a scene from a movie, a book or from life - of a situation when a person is having fun. Give your AGE, please.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!

Reverse Culture Shock

Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:04:23 GMT

…is itself a funny phenomenon. But when mixed with alcohol and some guy you’re kinda sorta jonsing on,

I didn’t experience RCS when I went home visiting over spring break last year. Maybe because I craved America. I experienced something like it when I went to Sri Lanka last summer, though. I was shocked at myself for even feeling slightly put-off by Sri Lankans’ apparent rudeness. I mean, it was rudeness – in English – and not really all THAT different from certain parts of the US, and I was shocked? What’s wrong with me?! Will I also go nuts if I visit Paris?

But on to RCS when you are the foreigner. I experienced that Sunday night.

You know how Japanese people are stereotyped as being highly prone to shyness and not being into PDA? Even if they like you? Even if you’re in a meaningful relationship? Well, I admit that I’ve 60% bought into this idea fully. The 40% is feeling that they play this card/fake it so they don’t have to bother with foreigners. Sunday I was invited to a New Years Party by a bar owner I met in October – Shinsuke. I hadn’t seen him since Christmas when, testing the waters, I told him that if he wanted action so badly, he could give me a Christmas Kiss (privately), which he refused – “I’m too embarrassed!” (In Japan, Christmas is treated like NYE for Americans.) Anyways, unexpectedly, he called me at home to make sure I was coming to this party and, intrigued by his sudden interest in me, I agreed.

Boy, was I in for it. I don’t know what happened between Christmas and Sunday to make him think twice about me, but I haven’t seen that amount of flirting since gawd knows when! Regardless of whether or not he *meant* it, I can honestly admit that I was shocked. Shocked! Sam didn’t flirt like that – he was very much a Japanese style dater. Nabe, too, though he wasn’t as reluctant to touch me in public. Hiro…he’s the closest to a Western-like PDA-er I’ve met. Other men who ‘showed their interest in me’ did it in a drunken bastard way which doesn’t count.

And to further illustrate the Japanese style PDA: So, at the ‘second party’ (nijikai) one of Shinsuke’s guest’s girlfriend arrived. She politely/formally greeted everyone. Her boyfriend said next to nothing, and almost looked embarrassed that she had come. He didn’t attempt to make room for her beside him – Shinsuke did. They nodded (bowed) to each other stiffly, and she sat. She seemed more interested in me than her boyfriend, and I really don’t remember seeing them exchange many words. In fact, the guy turned to entertain the rest of us by sticking his chopsticks in his nose and Frenching another man (the 3rd one that night). In other words, to me, these two could have been siblings for the lack of excitement between them.

My reaction to Shinsuke’s non-Japanese-flirting disturbs me because I have been one of the most vocal critics of Japanese style affection – or lack thereof. There are few foreign women more fed up with toning down the Me-ness so that natives won’t run away. And to think that I actually couldn’t handle a Japanese man’s sincere/obvious physical/verbal attention – which is part and parcel in my homeland – just curdles my milk! Hell, what if I go home and get shocked every time a guy puts his arm around me or hugs me in front of his friends? It’s a comical “problem” to have, but I think I have it! I was getting increasingly embarrassed BY his behavior towards me IN PLACE OF him.

And to make matters worse, he even noticed! “Hm, you’re shy tonight!” To which I replied, “Well, one of us has to be!” ~___~

Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:00:22 GMT

Hi! Have you ever faced the difficulties caused by differences in cultures? Was there smth that impressed you a lot when communicating with other nations?

moneh! moneh! moneh!

Mon, 16 Oct 2006 07:28:37 GMT

This is an entry about coworkers...and how it seems as if they believe that the more money you spend, the more fun you must be having...

...which is the complete opposite of how I feel when I give my money away. :b

If you're familiar with japanese working culture, you've probably heard of the enkai, or office/work party. It is as the article writer describes it, although there is always variation (I've only gone to one place where we could, if able, sit seiza). However, while the article expresses the writer's shock at a seat going for 5,000 yen ($41), I just had a party that would have cost me 7,000 ($58). Thankfully, unlike some of my young colleagues, I didn't have to pay because I was new to the school. I wanted to attend, but I was honest with them and said it was too expensive (I was going to Kyushu the next day!), and then they told me I wouldn't have to pay. I probably never would have anyways, but Japanese communication skills across cultures is for another entry...

Anyways, the emphasis on money and relations is sometimes grating. I wonder if it's an Asian thing, or perhaps it's simply the adult working world, because in Singapore, I've heard similar concerns from expats: disposable income fueling friendships and encounters to the point of expats without "expat packages" avoiding those who have one. In my situation, it's not that simple.

Imagine the tightass nobody likes in your office having one or two glasses and then screaming "I loooove you!*" in front of everyone. Imagine you finally being able to say to the dude you've been eying for months that you think he's pretty handsome (to which everyone will reply "Take him home! Please! Take him!!!*"). It's a time to let your hair down, to share a little bit more of your humanity with the office, to find out that your coworkers aren't as robotic as you thought. I sincerely hate missing enkai - I hate having to leave them. They can be really super fun and I appreciate the time to see them emerge from the mundane facade they don at work.

BUT WHY DO I HAVE TO SPEND SIXTY BUCKS TO SEE IT?!

In America, you're considered pretty damn cool if you can pull off a fun party cheaply, even among coworkers. There are people who're impressed with dishing out large amounts, but that's only 1) if they don't have to and 2) before they get drunk and then no one gives a crap. Also, there are also a shitload of activities for groups to do in your typical American city that don't break the bank. But that's NOT the case here! Nightlife takes dough...lots of it! If you can't get a swank hotel to cater your party, you're a failure, cheap, disrespectful. Money correlates directly to successful parties and successful workers. As an expat who's used to shopping at (sorry!) Wal-Mart and going on dates seeing a performance on the green, fireworks, or a movie, dancing at a house party or hanging out at a brewery...this is a painful reality. I love karaoke, but there's no guarantee that's an option, and bowling? Haven't seen a group of teachers doing that. Movies stop showing at 9pm. ATMs close then, too.

I can tell you that I'm one of, if not the most, highest paid teachers under 30 in my school, and yet at our "Under 30 Enkai" this week, it's frickin 50 US smackers just to drink WATERED-DOWN beer and sketchy food for 2 hours. And it's just a sit-down party - mingling across a table, no dancing, no party favors - verbal flirting only.

Sadly, it's not just enkai that are the victims of formalization at the expense (emotionally and financially) of others, and this isn't the only evidence for my hypothesis that money = fun/best.

There's a growing number of second virgin wives in Japan. One might think "you're kidding! Japanese women are beautiful. Japanese men are horndogs! Therefore...blah blah!" but...no. Those aren't even the issues, really. As with my previous entry, many men are still slaves/married to their work. Long hours = low libido = frustrated wives, but it's also the case as in other societies, long hours = late nights = libido only strong enough for the closest woman which is 99% of the time not a wife, or at least not his. Paying for sex or even the illusion of it or the dangling carrot of it is normal. Hostess bars, soap lands, etc, etc are all commercial and legally sanctioned avenues for people to pay lots of money for something they could probably get for free and without the bodyguards looming if they simply left work 30 minutes sooner. And these places ARE expensive (or at least one should shy away from one that's too cheap...). They're only opened for a few hours and they're very careful with clientele - you need membership sometimes. Love hotels - gods, I just spent the night in one that cost $85 - aren't as cheap as the expat is lead to believe. In America, the girl costs more than the motel. In Japan, it's...mainly the hotel.

BUT clearly, because you paid for it, you're getting The Best Blow Job in the Kanto Region.

Which leads me to why? Why am I being asked to fork over $50 for bad beer, okay wine, mediocre food, and stiff legs? What is it about this economically unsound practice that excites workers who...well...ride bicycles to the office? Why is it so shocking to have sex...uh...for free? Is it their obsession with appearances (also an issue that can make or break a woman not used to such whimsical judgments)? "See? I am spending money and now I can't afford a visit to the orthodontist. Aren't I a wonderfully selfless worker?" Or are they just victims of the entertainment/food and beverage industry? But then maybe that just means they're...um...uncreative when it comes to parties.

I don't know. In the meantime, I guess I'll just drink shouchu.

*Both happened to me.

the jist is that...

Sat, 07 Oct 2006 07:23:11 GMT

I have quit Sam, although he pretty much quit me first.

I've thought a lot about pin-pointing the cause, but of course people aren't toasters - there're many factors that lead to "breakups" (it's in quotes for a reason). I suppose, to make this on-topic in a community about culture and relationships, I should focus on the aspect that really did start the erosion, and that is career - his, namely.

Sure, those who are familiar with Japanese society know of the "workaholic" stereotype. Sam certainly fits into that to an extent...., but I realised through my interactions with him that he chose that lifestyle and he really allows it rule him as if he's...hm...got nothing else to offer - to society. He is an incredibly talented and intelligent man; I believe he could do ANYTHING. So I'm wondering what the true reason is behind his adherance to his job.

Let me back up a bit. He is the principal of a private college prep/cram school. I introduced myself to him on June 8th, around 5:10 at Starbucks. We hit it off...went on two really fun dates; I'd never felt chemistry like this before. He was sweet and romantic and funny, etc, etc, and it didn't take a molecular biologist to see he really dug me. But then the summer cram season came and honestly, what we had began dying the most painful ugly death ever. In August, we tried to go on a real third date, but he was called to work. His departure wasn't pleasant. He tried to do the 'I'll ignore her calls and she'll eventually get pissed and go away' technique, but I didn' fall for it. But it was too late. He'd already given up on having a relationship AND a job.

The point is, I tried -b and I guess failed? - to make him see that I was willing to put up with his shitty schedule. Many people who talk about intercultural relationships speak highly of ACCEPTANCE. I was ready and willing to do that - accept that right now, he needs this job to fulfil his desires and that he'd make time for me when he could. BUT, Sam himself wasn't ready to accept that. And it bugs the hell out of me not knowing why. I told him the last time I saw him that I think that he was serious about wanting to get to know me in the beginning, but then when work started getting serious too, he abandoned it and then tried to tell me he just originally wanted to be friends. His reply was along the lines of 'That's an interesting theory', which is coding for 'correct'. I'm sad that he allowed this ideology that a principal isn't supposed to have love (just be married to his job) to latch onto him, because he's a great man. Too bad his work turned him into an ass in the end.

A myth.

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 03:23:43 GMT

Well, I know I went all out and set up this lovely community and whatnot with high hopes, but what if.... what if....

I'm getting a few responses on intercultural conflict, but others are primarily gender differences in communication. Of course, since we're talking about relationships, I'm sure I'll be getting a little of both, but does anyone else on the forum have any anecdotes regarding communication conflicts due to primarily cultural differences?

That's probably because the incidence and importance of "intercultural conflict" in the context of most relationships is really exaggerated--indeed, I'd call it a myth. I've been married for eight years to a Japanese woman--can't think of a single conflict which arose just because she is Japanese.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=34072&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

So yeah, what if these fears and problems and issues we have are simply the dead and highly beaten horse of gender dichotomies. How much of a role DOES culture literally play? As much as race is a myth, what if culture is another excuse we use to hide the fact that, well, he just sucks at being honest with me and would probably be exactly the same man if he'd grown up in North Carolina? :p

n00bness + advice

Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:48:14 GMT

Hey everyone. :]

Let me introduce myself by frist stating: I don't believe in race. I believe different cultures, languages, religions, morals, and traditions exsist and inpart makes us all different ethnicities/cultures...but when we strip off our exteriors we all find the same human interior. Cultural discrepancies exsit; of course there are differences between Americans and Croatians; Mongolians and Chinese, Egyptians and Angolans! Every culture stresses different concepts. Race is a socially constructed concept invented to justify the subjugation of one culutre by another. (ie: European imperialism of Africa.)We all have our physical similiarities and differences, but in the end we're all members of the HUMAN SPECIES. One thing I do believe in is multicultural or bicultural...which many people are in todays world. This is all just my opinion...everyone is allowed that right?

BUT, anyway....I want to contribute to this community because I have become a victim of category A culture clash.

I am Cassandra! I am a lovely lady of Puerto Rican heritage. ;]But this isn't 'bout lil' ol' me, this is about my лисичка (little fox in Russian..I think it's the feminie form of the word too..oh well!)- Peter...my love interest, who comes from an entirely different hemisphere. Peter is a Soviet baby: Born in Latvia but ethnically Russian and moved to the great US of A once the Berlin wall fell. (And yes...for some reason he does have a profound love for Stalin.) We met in highschool - started dating my senior year - his freshman year of college. We've been going out for a wonderful year and nine months, but during this time I've experienced mass difficulties with my parentals, while he has had none. I've taken up an interest with Russian culture as well as language all in attempt to understand him + his family better...but my parents see this as "un-Puerto Rican-afying" myself. It doesn't help that Peter hasn't taken up any interest to learn Spanish or inquire about my culture (BUT boy...does he LOVE Puerto Rican food)to get a glimpse of my world. Recently, when my parents came home from vacation, I was at Peter's house instead of waiting for them to return at my own house. SO! The next day, before work, I was SCREAMED at for not being home to greet them. I honestly didn't see it as important: We were on vacation for two weeks, only one of those weeks they didn't get to see me. And yet, due to my absence I was called: "Un-Puerto Rican" and told to "move to Russia". My parents don't really hold Peter to any esteem now...which makes me mad because it was my desicion to stay at his house. I just want to resolve this issue with my parents: I want them to see that I'm proud to be who I am...but how? It makes me mad to see how much they contest me learning more about a different culture - so what if the stimulus came from love? I don't know what to do...

btw...

isn't he handome? :D

Help? :[ x-posted

discussion question

Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:05:45 GMT

Whether you’re already in or anticipate the situation, what do you generally expect will happen once you enter an intercultural relationship? This will depend on many factors, including what two cultures will be interacting, how much you know about the other culture, what you've HEARD/stereotypes, your own personality, etc. Do you expect a smooth transition from culture A to culture A/B, or are you concerned about a certain personal attribute that you fear may get in the way of meshing? This isn’t so much about the other person/their culture as it is about you and yours and your feelings about the other.

I studied Japanese language and culture in university, particularly sexuality and gender. Overall, I was both fascinated and disappointed with what I read about gender roles, and I think in the back of my head I was hoping half of it wasn’t true. Nevertheless, I still wanted to study and live abroad and internationalize, so I brazenly outsourced myself to Japan. Although family liked to joke about me either never coming back or returning with husband in tow, I was never very confident that I’d have any sort of meaningful relationship here. I expected that both men and women would be fascinated with my body, that I’d be one of the lucky victims of a train groping and that, should I ever be intimate with a Japanese man, it would resemble one of their oh-so-un-sexy pornos where I, as the woman, "hate it, but love it". :-/ I expected guys to be intimidated and nervous and annoyingly shy around me. As for how I expected my personality to handle it, I expected to be cynical and frustrated and disappointed. Despite my misgivings, I was (secretly) concerned that my cynicism and stubborn nature would hinder what worthwhile relationship I could have with someone who’s not from my part of the woods.

The Reality: Bizarrely not unlike what I read and expected, sad to say. I’ve been groped, by men and women, and while I haven’t experienced the infamous ‘jackrabbit’ technique, I’m afraid that should Sam (or whoever) and I ever even approach that level in our, ahem, ‘relationship‘, I expect bad sex with no apologies. (And then he’ll run off to work 20 hours a day and I’ll never hear from him again.) After a few months of living in Japan, I felt like I had damned myself by studying Japanese life, because I wonder that perhaps had I come in doe-eyed, I wouldn’t feel as…disenchanted/frustrated, again…as I feel. I have managed to make friends with Japanese people who don’t fit into the categories I learned about that do actually exist here, and I’m thankful because even when they do something that makes me grind my teeth, I have at least seen the genuine personality behind the stereotypical behavior, which softens the impact …like when Ikkyuu held me down so he could grab my bare breast. -_-…. It’s helped that I made it known that I’m not entirely culturecentric, so I and the Japanese person can safely make the assumption that we won’t be flogged with our respective differences. We like to think that “oh, yeah, we’re all people!”, but I’ve gotta admit, even being an anthropology major, I find myself occasionally pleasantly surprised when I meet a Japanese person who doesn’t zero in on my rack. Sue me.

American-South African

Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:15:40 GMT

Hi, my name is Kelly (USA) and I'm married to Tao (S. Africa). We are actually planning to move to S. Africa sometime in the near future. We do have a few cultural differences and I would say the main one is in how we communicate. S. Africans seem to be much more passive, while I am used to being more elaborate. It's hard to express this, but I would say that his family is much more straight to the point about things, they don't really waste time considering your feelings. Fortunately, we haven't had many issues recently (not to mention we're starting to turn into each other, so the differences are less obvious), so I don't have anything fresh to talk about... But I expect with the upcoming move, I'll be reminded a lot! Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself... I'm glad there is a community where we can discuss these things, cause when things do come up it is really hard to find anyone else who understands the cultural aspect.

Hello....

Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:13:18 GMT

Wow! I was really surprised to see your announcement for this in americansabroad - thanks for starting it up. I was just scouring LJ last week for just this type of community but had no luck.

My current relationship is with a Greek man (I'm from midwestern US), but we are such a fresh couple that we have not had time for any major culture clash to occur. So far, only small things like body language or coming from different religious cultures (Orthodoxy vs. Protestantism - big whoop, right?) have made small miscommunications. It's funny to have to rephrase your entire way of talking about the world becuase you don't have the same basic assumptions about some things. :-) Anyway, it's been more of a fun challenge than anything.

In the past, I have had a serious relationship with a Japanese man that was full of culture clash! So, if you have any gripes/happinesses along those lines, I might be chiming in. BTW - A good resource for Western women in a relationship with a Japanese man is The Foreign Wives Club. (I never married my guy, but was considering that AND a move across the world at one point. Would be happy to offer my advice/opinions to someone in the same predicament).

Well, I hope this community takes off!

oh

Thu, 07 Sep 2006 02:01:14 GMT

did LJ delete something, the original poster, or are my eyes playing tricks on meh?

Testing...

Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:18:40 GMT

One, two!

Welcome to xCultural, where complaining that your boyfriend is "being Japanese" doesn't mean he's turning pale and scrawny and recently got surgery to make him look like like he's squinting.

No. xCultural is about intercultural relationships, friendly ones but more importantly, romantic explorations. How living cultures mesh or fail to when two or more people interact.

This community isn't about race (or even nationality, to be exact) and I would appreciate it if you only posted issues related to culture/language/lifestyles. Sure, those things are interconnected, but not for everyone. I can tell you from first hand experience that I've met black and caucasian Japanese people, so skin tone is moot. We're talking nurture, not nature.

But if you'd like to talk about interracial relationships and issues: interracial

While most posts will likely be "omg! Help! What's she DOING!?", it's also nice to hear about intercultural couples making it work, so feel free to post. Don't forget to include pointers and tips on how you overcame any obstacles you might have had or any thoughts on intercultural dating, and cultural sensitivity.

That said, I'm certainly not the most culturally sensitive person around - not even that racially sensitive. But I hope we can make a group effort to keep things calm, educational and civilized. So no racist complaints and try not to be ethnocentric. There's a fine line sometimes, so do your best to help us understand the issue at hand.

Oh, and have fun!