-Yoella de Valeur- ([info]yoella) wrote in [info]wurds,
@ 2008-04-13 11:15:00
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"The longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize something is fucked up. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resumé of a supreme being. This is the kinda shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude."

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[info]yoella
2008-04-13 03:19 pm UTC (link)
-- George Carlin

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[info]possible_pasts
2008-04-13 03:58 pm UTC (link)
I like your icon, can I steal?

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[info]yoella
2008-04-13 04:13 pm UTC (link)
Yeah sure, it's kinda just one of those ones that floats around LJ.

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[info]godsavethelabel
2008-04-13 03:28 pm UTC (link)
not into it. though when i saw george carlin said this it became more acceptable hahah

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[info]just_keep_still
2008-04-14 07:23 am UTC (link)
Same here.

If he'd have me, I'd be with him forever!

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[info]inveighed
2008-04-13 03:38 pm UTC (link)
I love it.

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[info]possible_pasts
2008-04-13 03:57 pm UTC (link)
George Carlin!!

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[info]forrent
2008-04-13 04:13 pm UTC (link)
I love this quote.

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[info]greenkitty14
2008-04-13 04:17 pm UTC (link)
it's alright, the only thing is is that the guy saying the quote is blaming God for all the crap that goes on. if he doesn't believe in God, why blame someone who doesn't exist. if he does believe in God, he would understand that people are the ones that fucked everything up. sure, God could take all the bullshit away, but it's like giving candy to a baby. we would never learn how to be better if he made everything simple. granted, some people never learn, and they will have to pay the consequences for being stupid.

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[info]loopyzany
2008-04-13 04:28 pm UTC (link)
Sadly, it often isn't the person being stupid who suffers the consequences, it's someone else.

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[info]ground0messiah
2008-04-13 04:30 pm UTC (link)
because that's the way of the atheist. God doesn't exist to them, but they have to bitch about it, or they'd have nothing to define the fact they are something more than nothing (in their books anyway), an atheist.

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[info]thewomanmeg
2008-04-13 04:47 pm UTC (link)
Some of us shrug at any mention of god(s) and define ourselves by our own system of belief...but hey don't let me stop the athiest bashing.

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[info]ground0messiah
2008-04-13 04:50 pm UTC (link)
you're unfortunately, the minority. my problem with atheists is as i stated, they won't shut up about god. at least the ones i know.

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[info]tsururu
2008-04-13 06:29 pm UTC (link)
As with any group of people, it's just the obnoxious minority that make a spectacle of themselves and seem like the majority.

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[info]ground0messiah
2008-04-13 08:00 pm UTC (link)
like hipsters?

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[info]paz_falsa
2008-04-14 02:35 am UTC (link)
iconnnnnnn

Married To The Sea is the greatest thing in the world.

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[info]ground0messiah
2008-04-13 04:56 pm UTC (link)
and since i love it so much...


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[info]godsavethelabel
2008-04-13 05:21 pm UTC (link)
HAHAHAHHA oh thank you god almighty for bananas

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[info]loopyzany
2008-04-13 05:25 pm UTC (link)
Um... what about oranges, pomegranates, apples, kiwis.....

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[info]ground0messiah
2008-04-13 05:35 pm UTC (link)
nah, fuck that. Pineapples. and coconuts. those are the real motherfuckers. Pomegranates are on par with hell too. I'm glad they started juicing those fuckers, but now they cost three bucks a pop at the grocery store here, instead of 75 cents like they did when no one gave a shit about antioxidants.

and oranges are easy if you have fingernails. you can eat the brown skin of a kiwi, but personally, i find it dissatisfying.

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[info]cantinalaughter
2008-04-13 09:24 pm UTC (link)
xkcd for the win.

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[info]bentbacktulips
2008-04-13 05:52 pm UTC (link)
I would think that in order to believe in [the Christian] God, these things must ultimately be truly just; while damage to the soul is understood to be self-inflicted, physical harms are just a part of Providence.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 12:33 am UTC (link)
God is the creator of everything according to monotheistic religions. I don't think it's an atheist thing at all. Anyone who says, "It's the will of God." is pretty much saying the same thing, isn't he? That God is "to blame" for everything because he created it all.

Why is it okay to say, "It's a blessing" when something good happens, but when it's something bad, it's someone else's fault, never God's? God created everything that ultimately led to the here and now, if you believe it, and that includes the Devil and all the harm he does.

Just my devil's advocate's two cents...

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[info]just_keep_still
2008-04-14 07:24 am UTC (link)
I see it (and when he talks about God in other things) as a way of saying "see? then how COULD a god exist?"

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[info]just_keep_still
2008-04-14 07:26 am UTC (link)
Oh, and it's also a joke. We should take that into consideration as well.

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[info]mr_alex_auldron
2008-04-13 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Very well spoken. Another good quote for today.

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[info]parabasis
2008-04-13 05:52 pm UTC (link)
As I read the quote, I could hear the voice of George Carlin speaking it. And when I clicked to discover the speaker, I would've been supremely disappointed had it been anyone other than the great GC - he just has a certain way of phrasing things that is unique. Blunt, pointed, ironic, and deliciously biting. Long live GC. :)

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[info]lion_rose
2008-04-13 06:12 pm UTC (link)
George Carlin delivers this really well, but I'm not sure whether I like it/believe it/etc. All I can think is: Be careful what you theorize, it might just be true. D:

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[info]murielle
2008-04-13 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Well, you know I don't buy it.

I like George Carlin, he's funny. I've enjoyed him since the 70's when he first started showing up on my TV. A lot of his humour was considered "shocking" in those days because he said stuff like this.

"If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed."

He's not really not talking about God's doing, he's talking about mankind's failing.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 12:30 am UTC (link)
gonna play the devil's advocate here and say that since God is the creator of everything, any and all things, good or bad, can logically be traced back to him.

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[info]bentbacktulips
2008-04-14 02:10 am UTC (link)
Augustine makes it excessively clear that although God is the arbiter of all things, he is the creator only of all good things; not of evil.

Christian theologians would also to argue that evil is not something that exists, per se, but that absolute evil is absolute non-being. Satan in the frozen lake barely is at all, and to the extent to which he does exist, he is good.

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[info]malathion
2008-04-14 02:51 am UTC (link)
Augustine makes it excessively clear that although God is the arbiter of all things, he is the creator only of all good things; not of evil.

He does assert this, but I don't think he's successful at reconciling it with the axiom of omnipotence.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 04:16 am UTC (link)
Christian theology says that the devil is a former angel who fell from the grace of God.

Depending on your interpretation of the old testament, either there was God and the angels in the beginning, in which case, God is not responsible for the creation of the devil, and there is no such thing as hell (although the modern interpretation is along the lines of your argument, that hell is merely the absence of God, so in after life, anywhere outside of God's heaven), and Christianity is not the only religion, since God is not the only one

OR

God alone existed in the beginning, in which case, everything that was made after him BY him is his responsibility.

Regardless of whether or not there is the Devil, or hell, good things happen alongside the bad. You could say that people are the perpetrators and therefore responsible, but then it has to work the other way as well - that anything good that happens is people's doing as well, in which case, where does God enter into the equation?

This is why I love religious debates :) you could argue about this for years on end - and people have - and never come up with a suitable answer. Religion is not meant to be logical, which is, I think, is a reasonable assumption for this quote, even though GC might just have been making a joke.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 04:17 am UTC (link)
Did I just go in a bunch of circles here? lol sorry. I'll clarify if you want.

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[info]cantinalaughter
2008-04-14 07:49 am UTC (link)
I took it to mean that God gave mankind (and the devil, I guess) free will and the capacity to fight his good and magnificent plan with pettiness, small-mindedness, and essentially evil. For example in Job, God basically gives the devil free reign to fuck with Job, and then also gives Job (and his family and friends) the ability to hate God if they wanted to.

God allows bad things to happen because the bad moments help establish how great God is, and so we praise him all the louder when good things happen. From a "logical" human standpoint you might call God jealous and petty himself, and to an extent that's exactly what he is... in the Old Testament, anyway.

Many Christians I know don't try to displace blame on someone else when bad things happen; rather, they take it to mean that God is testing them, or trying their faith, or even nudging them to take the high road and demonstrate God's glory through their ability to overcome these hardships. They still realize that God is responsible for allowing bad things to happen, but that there is a definite reason for it that we can't necessarily divine for ourselves.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 04:44 pm UTC (link)
Yes, many good Christians do good things and take the religion as it was intended. But for every good Christian I know, there are at least four bad ones, who consider their religion to be something that puts them above everyone else. If bad things happen to these people, God is, indeed testing them, but if they happen to others, well, it's their own fault - God is punishing them.

I don't disagree on any particular point with you here. Kudos.

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[info]cantinalaughter
2008-04-14 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Well yeah, there are assholes in every religion. IMHO though it's better to view the religion as it is rather than judge it by the people who can't be bothered to actually read the Bible and find out what exactly it is that they're investing in.

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[info]murielle
2008-04-14 05:03 am UTC (link)
"...gonna play the devil's advocate here ..."

Why?

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 04:47 pm UTC (link)
A) Because it's fun and promotes a balanced discussion of controversial issues. If you (speaking in general terms) keep it civilized, you might learn something.

and

2) Because I don't like it when people bash religions (or non religions) so heavy-handedly in a public forum, as was done somewhere way up in this thread (not referring to you) I commented on someone else's comment and I guess I wanted to be consistent.

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[info]murielle
2008-04-14 05:26 pm UTC (link)
That sounds fair.

I'm getting old and cranky and am past the point in my life where I feel the need to defend my beliefs or positon. Also, these days, I find I simply don't have the energy for long drawn out arguements. I have always believed that people should be allowed to believe what they choose as long as it doesn't impede anyone else's right to believe as they choose. Bottom line: We are responsible for all our choices, even those related to faith.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-14 06:19 pm UTC (link)
That's a nice philosophy to have. It just sucks there are so many people trying so hard to convert people to some other faith, or discredit them. I got really mad last Halloween at this anti-paganpropaganda that was being posted all over my campus. I couldn't believe something like that was allowed to take up space on the bulletin boards. I don't think I'm ready to let it go just yet.

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[info]murielle
2008-04-15 04:57 pm UTC (link)
There are two major religions in the conversion business right now: Christianity and Islam. If you're challenging both of them for recruiting, then more power to you. If you're just targeting one of them your discriminating.

If someone, or a group of people, posted anti-pagan propaganda on public bulletin boards then I would think they are taking part in Free Speech. Isn't that something that is fiercely protected in the States? It's hard to know as an outside-onlooker. It seems to me that if freedom of speech is a good thing for one then it's a good thing for everyone... or, it isn't a good thing for anyone.

I, myself, don't participate in Halloween as it is a pagen feastday and has no place in Christianity. But I don't waste my energy telling anyone that. If if comes up in conversation(like now) that's one thing, if it doesn't, then why waste my breath and energy?

One of the problems with discrimination is that it tends to paint entire peoples with the same brush. Let me assure you there as many different kinds of Christians with as many different beliefs and practices as there are students and majors at all the universities in the world.

Be careful of the pitfalls of attaching the beliefs and actions of one segment of a particular group to all of them. You run the risk of the same folly as those who believe that all Muslims are terrorists.

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[info]cantinalaughter
2008-04-15 07:32 pm UTC (link)
Amen.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-16 02:16 am UTC (link)
I have nothing against free speech, or people standing up for their beliefs. What I objected to in this case is precisely what you're talking about - grouping people indiscriminately in the same category. The posters invited people to a very "revealing, educational" seminar on Halloween and the pagan/wiccan/satanic practices associated with it. Just the fact that they grouped the three in the same category is libelous. But it went on to say that there would be a bible study afterwards and parents would be cautioned about whether or not they wanted their children to participate in this tradition, implying (or outright saying, I can't remember anymore) that it endangered their immortal souls.

My strife with this one particular group which spread this nonsense is that (1) they are saying that polytheistic equals evil and (2) they are inciting that kind of intolerance in adults AND by association (if the parents buy into it) their children - two generations "educated" to discriminate against polytheistic religions.

Beyond that, I couldn't see what was wrong with kids dressing up and getting candy.

I like to think of myself as a very open-minded person. Argue your point, good on ya. I may argue back, but I won't try to recruit or convert you. The one thing I will not tolerate is an outright and unsubstantiated, ignorant attack. That's what I saw these posters as.

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[info]cantinalaughter
2008-04-16 09:30 am UTC (link)
But you carried the resentment of these posters over to the comm and to murielle and myself and others. I mean it's one thing to argue your point and to have examples to back you up, but to say that most Christians are X way just because you saw those posters doesn't mean crap to us since we don't feel that way; in effect, you've lumped us in with those people in the same way pagans and Satanists were lumped together at the seminar.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-16 06:21 pm UTC (link)
I didn't say 'most Christians are X.' In fact, I said there are good Christians, but that I know a lot of bad ones. And I said that none of the comments I made were referring to murielle. What I was referring to in this thread was the: because that's the way of the atheist comment somewhere towards the beginning, which lumped all atheists together.

As for the poster thing, it was meant to reply to murielle's: I'm getting old and cranky and am past the point in my life where I feel the need to defend my beliefs or positon. And saying that I personally do still get angry about that stuff.

Please don't take my comments out of context.

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[info]cantinalaughter
2008-04-16 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Fair enough. But I guess what I don't understand is why you didn't respond directly to ground0messiah's comment about atheists, rather than taking it to murielle's in defense of Christians.

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[info]taryndaani
2008-04-16 09:06 pm UTC (link)
the back-and-forth between me and murielle started off from a different point, with ground0messiah's comment serving as a reference. I believe I commented in that thread also, but not directly to that because it had already been addressed by then and I didn't see the point of bringing it up again.

What I don't understand is why you're so persistent in this. It's not like murielle needs defending. I wasn't attacking anyone, just having a discussion. Kinda bored with it now that you keep coming back to the same thing over and over again, so I'm out.

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[info]rena_librarian
2008-04-14 05:46 pm UTC (link)
I am ridiculously proud of myself because I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've correctly guessed the speaker without previously being aware of the exact quote.

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