forever darkness ([info]fordarkness) wrote in [info]worldofwarcraft,
@ 2008-07-19 08:24:00
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Apparently my rogueing sucks
After a Shadow Lab run, a few quests turned in, and about a dozen mobs squished, my third alt (a rogue) dinged 70. But when I asked one of my party members how I did on the damage meters and DPS-wise, his response was "a hunter pet in greens could have out-DPS'd you". :O

Apparently I was sitting around 200 DPS.

Now, I knew going in that I'm not overly sure how to use my spec in instance runs, but this was far worse than I assumed I was going to be.

The problem with it is that the only way I really know how to play the spec I have (dagger/mutilate) is based on specific conditions being set up, such as stuns and poisoning before using mutilate. Part of the problem I ran into was stuff dying before I could get any poisons on or after just getting four to five combo points, but I also found myself auto-swinging most of the time, waiting for my energy bar to click up so I could do either Sinister Strike, Backstab or a finishing move.

So I come to you people for help. I'm up for a respec if needed, but this character isn't likely to be doing much raiding. It's mostly a farm character for me, getting herbs and crafting potions. I might drag her into Kara for fun, but I'm more interested in bringing my tank there instead. The dagger/muti spec is awesome for farming and I have a lot of fun with it and since I have a pile of quests I can still do for gold, I'd like to keep it that way if possible. Suggestions on how to use it in instances is an option, or respecs that have a good fun factor are also possible.

My armoury for reference:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dalaran&n=Rhyannoan

The gear I'm wearing is what I had in the Shadow Labs run (except for the bracers which I got as a quest reward). Current plans are: gem the bracers with +agi, craft fel leather leggings, belt of deep shadow and cobrascale hood, run Blood Furance (H) for Icon of Unyielding Courage (when I'm geared up a bit more). Any suggestions for gear (from crafting, questing or non-heroics) would also be welcome!

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[info]myste_uk
2008-07-19 03:55 pm UTC (link)
In a way, I think you have answered your own question.

I'm speaking as someone who has never played a rogue past 20, so I'm going off only what you have written as your own experiences. I would say stick with the spec you have, since it's working for you for farming and questing - which is what you want to do with it.

As for your dps in the instance.. I think you asked the wrong question - I always think of rogues as shining at sustained dps rather than burst dps.. and since the trash was dying quickly and you couldn't get out a number of your attacks, then your dps overall is going to be nerfed. Your dps on the bosses however would be a better indication of what damage you are kicking out imo. 200 dps overall doesn't really tell you anything much - your dps on the bosses is what you need to know.

Deleted and Reposted to fix a couple of typos - can't edit sorry

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[info]dayanand
2008-07-19 04:34 pm UTC (link)
What he said about the trash and sustained DPS. Your talents look fine for a mutilate build, you just need to grab the stuff you know is out there.
I know you probably already know and didn't list PvP in that pile of sources at the end, but getting a pair of S1 daggers will make a -dramatic- difference. Otherwise you can also troll the AH for a Ced's Carver or two.

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[info]spartonian
2008-07-19 04:44 pm UTC (link)
but getting a pair of S2 daggers will make a -dramatic- difference

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[info]dayanand
2008-07-19 04:48 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I guess getting S1 would be a bit of a feat right now. >.> I blame mornings.

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[info]sacryd
2008-07-19 05:32 pm UTC (link)
I think the point here was that you can get s2 for honor now, why would you bother with s1?

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[info]woggy222
2008-07-19 08:17 pm UTC (link)
The point Dayanad was making is that it's literally not possible to get S1 daggers - they've been removed from the vendors.

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[info]fordarkness
2008-07-20 09:43 pm UTC (link)
I didn't mention PVP stuff because I generally don't PVP at all. It tends to stress me out. I do the occasional BG on my main who's geared up in T6 gear so I'm not totally useless, but it's a class I know how to play really well. Bringing in my undergeared crappy rogue that I'm not entirely good at playing seems like a great way to really up my stress levels. XD

I was going to request Ced's Carver from the guild bank. It'll definitely be an upgrade while I debate the merits of tearing out my hair for some BGs. :D

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[info]ubermagen
2008-07-19 04:04 pm UTC (link)
I wouldnt be too worried/bothered by my dps output just dinging 70. It'll improve vastly the more gear ya get :)

Asking someone how your dps at this point is asking to get reemed, I'd assume. A rogue in our raids is one of our highest on the charts though!

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[info]atomic645
2008-07-19 04:14 pm UTC (link)
Pretty much everything you need to know about being a rogue:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16940-roguecraft_101_a/

http://www.shadowpanther.net/

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[info]atomic645
2008-07-19 04:15 pm UTC (link)
Your best bet might be to go combat (daggers, I guess. Spec to your best weapons)

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[info]fordarkness
2008-07-20 09:38 pm UTC (link)
I was debating going combat daggers for now and possibly switching up to swords if I wanted higher DPS. But since I'm not really focusing on raiding, I'm not *too* worried about it yet.

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[info]atomic645
2008-07-20 09:43 pm UTC (link)
A really fun spec (especially if you don't raid much) is a combat fist/sword hybrid. Fist mainhand, sword offhand. You get the nice crit from fists, and the occasional sword spec proc, which is yummy.

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[info]fordarkness
2008-07-20 09:50 pm UTC (link)
Ooooo... I might consider that too! Since my rogue is more of a fun toon as opposed to a serious alt, I'm much more open to experimenting with her with various specs. My warrior was leveled for the sole purpose of being a tank and now that she's spec'd prot will not go to anything else. I went to BM on my hunter at level 60 and refuse to spec anything else on her either. My rogue is all for fun and switching specs really doesn't change what she's supposed to do, so I like the idea of trying things. Fist/sword does sound fun, so I might look at that too! Thanks!

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[info]evi1pilotfish
2008-07-19 04:25 pm UTC (link)
These are great sources of info on teh rogue-ing. Being Mut, you'll never be near the DPS of combat specced rogues, consistently. If you're moving more twards PvE content, I'd suggest respeccing to Combat Daggers until you can get swords (if thats what you want).

With Blade Flurry, farming's almost a joke. There's a lot more killing and a lot less preping everything to go well with poisons and stuns. Almost think of yourself as a fury warrior in leather. Adrenaline Rush + Blade Flurry + SnD + your trinkets = lots of dead things. Less thinking, more killing.

I'm having fun with the Sub tree, and even though it's a PvP spec, killing things isn't difficult. If Combat isn't tickling your fancy, you can try it.

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[info]fordarkness
2008-07-20 09:39 pm UTC (link)
So it's mostly just a matter of standing there, popping cooldowns and swinging from the sounds of it. Part of why I like the muti spec is for the micromanagement, which is fun on my own. But I can see how it's weak in group environments. I'd like to get some good upgrades which means instances, which means I better be holding my own. >_<

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[info]fordarkness
2008-07-20 09:36 pm UTC (link)
Thank ya! I'll definitely go through those!

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[info]theoctothorpe
2008-07-19 05:16 pm UTC (link)
I have a level 60 rogue: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gilneas&n=Maus

And while the apparent DPS is sitting at over 100, my DPS addon says I'm around 200 "real world" DPS, but what's disturbing to me is that I have a greater min and max damage than you. It seems to me it's a gear and spec problem. Combat simply has better DPS boosting abilities than the other trees.

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[info]lizzab
2008-07-19 11:14 pm UTC (link)
Any sort of DPS numbers someone pulls from a 5 man really have no relevance to your expected performance. Most DPS benchmarks are calculated in sustained settings, such as boss fights. Trash is never taken into account, making places like 5 man instances a poor place to gauge one's personal DPS.

Being mutilate, your "trash" DPS isn't going to be particularly high, because you will never get a full stack of poisons (if any) on a mob in time for any amount of decent sustained DPS to kick in. Given your gear - yes, a hunter in greens COULD probably outDPS you in a 5 man.

I would suggest start doing some battlegrouds and grabbing the season 2 swords. This will give you the option of speccing combat, which is great for farming/grinding as well as anything PVE related, and you can also use them to spec shadowstep if you ever want to do a bit of PVP on your rogue.

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[info]fordarkness
2008-07-20 09:41 pm UTC (link)
I'll look for the swords and doing some BGs... although I have a suspicion I'll be a *huge* liability in them. :/ The other day, I was beaten in a duel against a guildie on his rogue alt. He was level 70 to my 69 and wearing only his weapons.

Yes, I was beaten by another rogue that dueled me naked.

I wasn't impressed.

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