worldofwarcraft: Expert keyboard/mouse controls in arena

Paul Montgomery (

paradox0220) wrote in

worldofwarcraft,
@ 2008-04-29 11:34:00

Expert keyboard/mouse controls in arena
So there is a scale of keyboard/mouse control expertise in arena that looks something like:

Experts <-----------------------> Clickers

Clickers being those who move and turn with A, D, W and S keys and only click skills with the mouse. I've seen a million posts saying that it is impossible to achieve high ratings while being a clicker. What I'm interested in is: What exactly do experts do? I'm somewhere in the middle where I bind some -very- common skills to numbers or functions and turn with the mouse but move forward with W.

Do experts move only by pressing both mouse buttons to move/turn and only use skills through key binds (and never use ADWS)? How do experts target in arena? Do they click on arena unit frames-like targets (this seems like it would interfere with movement too much to me) or do they tab (and if they tab, how do they handle a feigned hunter with an active snake trap)? Where would an expert hold his/her hands in a default position?

I'm also interested in how keybinds work with characters with tons of skills to use like resto druids. I have macros to auto heal me and my partner so there are 8 keybinds + 4 more for both of our poison and curse dispels + all the various form shifts and skills (losing count here), etc. With so many key binds, it seems fairly infeasible to me to truly keybind all of them and only use that mechanism but perhaps that is the real expert way to go?

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redarius
2008-04-29 05:30 pm UTC (link)

Personal experience, your mileage may vary, disclaimer list continues, blah blah blah.

I heal without clique or any of the other trendy heal/unit frame mods, because I don't trust them to stick around. I like keeping my skillset independent of mods, but I absolutely use mods for PvE like Omen or DBM.

What I do is I have keybinds with conditional macros. Use of alt/shift/ctrl, whatever. I move with W, I strafe with Q and E, and I rotate with the mouse. I mouseover targets and have conditional "do this thing to that person" if I have them as my focus. Target of target macros help too.

For PvP I have a taunt macro so I can pull hunter pets off my heal targets and turn demons.

I also have a Logitech G15 keyboard, which is basically cheaty hax because of the tons of keybind options. I have default mappings for PvE and PvP. Arena is actually easiest of all since it's 2, 3 or 5 person groups which are very easy to heal with keybinds. In raids, it's a lot tougher to manage keybinds since group composition is never the same. To compensate for that, I try to limit my focus in raids with a specific heal (or cleanse) assignment -- "heal the main tank" or "cleanse on g1 through g3". It's remarkable how much more effective raid healing/cleansing/debuffing is when you set assignments.

I've considered getting a mod to assist with managing my Paladin buffs on raids, but since the default raid interface now comes with a pullout option by class, I just use that instead. My guild uses a /paladin guild channel for blessing assignments, giving the people with improved blessing talents the right assignments.

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	paradox0220 2008-04-29 05:40 pm UTC (link)
	I was pondering a G15 or something similar. I hear it takes a long time to get used to but do you think it is worth while? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

redarius
2008-04-29 05:58 pm UTC (link)

The G15 is absolute hax. I love it. BUT it's got a bit of a learning curve to get used to. I think it's tougher for right handed folks, too, since all the extra keys are on the left. To get over some issues I had with moving, I switched QWEASD to the middle set of keys (G7-G12 I think?) so I wouldn't have to move my hand back and forth. Then I dropped the "A" and "D" equivalent, since I don't use the keyboard to rotate left/right, and added bubble (or warstomp) and blessing of freedom (earth shield) to the other.

It really, really is a personal preference thing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

redarius
2008-04-29 05:53 pm UTC (link)

Sorry, I wandered off topic.

For classes with many skills, you need to make tactical decisions about what abilities and what rank you use.

For PvP, max rank everything, always. For cleanse abilities use a conditional in the same keybind if you've got limited keybinds (no cheaty hax keyboard with extra buttons, for instance). Alt is your focus, unmodified is you, etc. I'm being vague here because only you know what'll work for you. For Arenas, I just use F1-F5 since it's only ever up to 5 people in the fight.

If you have limited keybind options, unbind your bags and take a look at all the keys that have default bindings that you never use.

There are clickers that are successful in Arena PvP, by the way. I think it's indisputable that using keyboard is faster but I've seen some very solid play from clickers. Playing how you want to play and not stressing about the details can be much more rewarding than getting another 100 or so rating for your Arena team but hating how much work it takes to get your bindings just right.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	paradox0220 2008-04-29 07:51 pm UTC (link)
	I think I'm stressing more about not getting that extra 100 points than I would about changing my keyboard/mouse play style. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	jsciv 2008-04-29 07:42 pm UTC (link)
	It's remarkable how much more effective raid healing/cleansing/debuffing is when you set assignments. Tell our old guild that. :( Sorry, tangent over! (Reply to this)(Parent)

tokudama
2008-04-29 05:47 pm UTC (link)

Hardly an expert, but I use my mouse for most movement except strafe (default keybindings there). I have auto-run bound to a thumb button, use the l- and r- buttons simultaneously to move forward, r-button to turn. Occasionally I use W to run forward, but more often than not I'm using my left hand to use keybound abilities (1-6 with modifiers, and other things set up according to the name of the ability, e.g., death coil = shift+D, fear = shift+F). I normally click-to-target if tab-targeting would prove disastrous or take too long.

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	mesuari 2008-04-29 05:52 pm UTC (link)
	If I keybind every spell, use mouseover macros for healing... and still use WASD to move, what does that make me? :D I just can't wrap my head around actually clicking things to get things done, hehe. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	paradox0220 2008-04-29 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Apparently I need a Z-axis to my original scale. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	hythloday 2008-04-29 07:08 pm UTC (link)
	ESDF gets you an extra column of reachable keys. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	manicdee 2008-04-29 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	hythloday speaks the Truth! One-column-right-ists of the world unite! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dac 2008-04-29 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	I have one of those mouses with a tilting mouse wheel. I press it to run forward. I tilt left and right to strafe left and right. I steer by moving the mouse while running. I can also run forward+strafe. I look around by holding the left mouse button and moving the mouse. I NEVER use WADS. EVER. But I do use a key to auto run. I made it the V key. (Reply to this)(Thread)

wildrice13
2008-04-29 08:27 pm UTC (link)

I do all of this except my thumb button does auto-run. Moving backwards is Shift+thumb button. This allows my left hand to sit near home-row at all times, where I have all my spells and abilities bound on a grid from 1 through B, sometimes using shift, alt, or ctrl as modifiers. I use Bartender3 to create bars that match the keyboard layout to some degree, so that I can click those that are really out of the way or that I don't use often and thus don't have in muscle memory. I tank and heal this way (healing, with mouseover macros). Target selection can be tricky; I either tab, or for Arena I use unit frames (Proximo creates them when I mouse over) or click on enemy panes (default keybinding V, though I keep it on the apostrophe--I map most useful commands that used to be on the left half of the keyboard to the right).

I need to take a more recent SS of my UI...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dac 2008-04-29 08:38 pm UTC (link)
	are you left-handed? thanks for giving me the idea of using Shift+(button press) for backing up! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	wildrice13 2008-04-29 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	Nope, right handed. But I'm still pretty quick with the buttons. High speed maul-mangle maul-lacerate spam! I wonder if my years of piano lessons in my youth helped... :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

spirituus
2008-04-29 06:02 pm UTC (link)

I would say just use whatever lets you optimize your own play.

I bind 1 through =.

R,T,F,G,V,B,X,C

I also have Shift modifiers for most of those. I also use Click2Cast/Clique with Basic, Shift and Control modifiers. And on top of that have a 5 button mouse (by no means extreme)

There are a lot of redundancies built in because in certain situations it's easier to use one over the other.

Say in a fight where I have a lot of random healing paired with a good deal of movement I'll use the keyboard to move while using the mouse to Click2Cast on my raid frames. Where on a fight like Illidari Council where I need quick movement but heals on only a few targets than I'm probably using the mouse to move and using keys for my heals.

I think the only true line in the sand is if you are literally using the mouse to target a Player/Mob and then using the mouse to then click on a spell item. That is where you are going to lose some reaction time.

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paradox0220
2008-04-29 07:48 pm UTC (link)

Very insightful post; thanks! Let me run a bit with what you said:

So in arenas, /focus and macros for healing your own team can take you so far but at some point you'll have to click to target (cyclone for example; either Arena Unit Frames or a player mouse click) as tab is too unreliable with shaman totems, hunter snakes and random pets.

Since you have to mouse target and the line in the sand is that you shouldn't use the mouse to target and then use the mouse to click a skill, skills would therefore need to be keybound.

So I would imagine keyboard forward movement would basically be mandatory or moving and targeting would be fairly mutually exclusive.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

what9000
2008-04-29 06:25 pm UTC (link)

I've known a few people on both sides of the spectrum, clickers and keyboard turners.

The keyboard turning was um, the only thing I would 100% not recommend, especially if you're a warrior/rogue, etc.

But honestly, I'm a lefty so I find myself using both the keyboard and the mouse equally. It's hard for me to be really precise with my mouse, so I never click skills. But since my left hand is so much more coordinated than my right, it's easy to use the keyboard to strafe/hit skills.

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	wildrice13 2008-04-29 08:30 pm UTC (link)
	Keyboard turning is the #1 thing I recommend people change if they ask me for pointers on how they could play better. In a game where positioning is very important--especially for melee, and ESPECIALLY for tanks--it's the quickest way to improve your game :) "Especially Lisa. But ESPECIALLY Bart!" (Reply to this)(Parent)

shotie
2008-04-29 06:25 pm UTC (link)

Huh. I really do a mixture of keyboard moving and mouse moving. It mostly depends on the situation. I turn with my mouse unless I'm just roaming around the map on a long haul run to get a Flight Path or something. I do something similar for my casting: I have my spells on the left memorized so I can just push buttons without looking, but sometimes I click the right side (non-combat abilities like my healthstone and noncom pets are there)

I agree with Spirituus above me, I think the only time it becomes a factor is when you use your mouse to target AND click your abilities/spells. That, and turning, since turning with the mouse is a good deal slower than just whipping your mouse around.

Ultimately, it's just a matter of preference, IMO.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	what9000 2008-04-29 06:30 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I keyboard turn when running long distances since at those points I'm usually playing 1 handed while eating, reading a book, etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ex_kamele845 2008-04-29 06:58 pm UTC (link)
	It may just be me, but I have a easier time clicking as a Rogue. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	invidiously 2008-04-29 07:09 pm UTC (link)
	I've always found it easier clicking, as any class. Sure I could maxmize efficiency by keybinding but I always forget about my keybinds. I always forget to shift/ctrl + click something (especially in a crisis) and I'm such a messy typer that if I bind something to any of my typing keys I just screw myself over... clicking ftw :P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ex_kamele845 2008-04-29 09:33 pm UTC (link)
	last thing you wanna do is typo on a skill spam! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	krystia 2008-04-29 08:50 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I feel that the global cooldowns allow WoW to be a bit more click-friendly -- ESPECIALLY for those who are/were big in FPS games. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cofie 2008-04-29 07:27 pm UTC (link)
	lol if the number pushing for casting and mouse for running makes one a wow expert... ...then I DON'T want to be one. How ridiculous. One more reason not to play arena EVER. (Reply to this)(Thread)

leopardeternal
2008-04-29 09:09 pm UTC (link)

their are certain skills that are very difficult if not flat out impossible to do if you are using the keyboard to turn and the mouse to click. This goes for PvE as well as PvP.

For example, Hunter Kiting: running away from your target while also jump turning to be able to shot them requires the speedy turns only offered by mouse control... using keys to turn is simply not fast enough. And if you're using the mouse to turn you have to use keybindings to shoot.

I agree that mouse movement control is far from any measure to determine who is 1337 and who is not, but a good player will take advantage of what they can to get any edge.

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	teniblue 2008-04-29 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	Belkin Nostromo n52te. I finally upgraded from their older n52 model. The n52te has faster keys and a better touch on the joystick thumb button. I don't even have to look down at my keyboard since all the keys fall under my handprint and I've got the keys memorized. That said, I still suck in arenas. I think I just suck. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	paradox0220 2008-04-29 07:50 pm UTC (link)
	Hmmmm, I may have to look into one of those. How long did it take you to learn your key mappings? Do you play multiple chars? If so, does it throw you off a lot when switching characters? (Reply to this)(Parent)

theanklebiter
2008-04-29 08:00 pm UTC (link)

I play on a Mac laptop with a single-button trackpad. While sitting on my couch, so no place to plug in a mouse. Same for my husband.

We're EXTREME KEYBOARD MONKEYS! (Though I can see how mouse-movement could be more desirable for melee classes- I'm a holy priest and he's a warlock, so we have less of an issue.) That's right, I heal with no mouseclick/mouseover macros, because I've only just got the one button to work with. Aw, yeah.

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manicdee
2008-04-29 11:15 pm UTC (link)

False dichotomy: clickers are not necessarily non-expert.

I know people who DPS very well as rogues or hunters, and they're clickers/keyboard turners. They can't kite worth salt, but hey you can't have everything. I know people who have macros out the wazoo, turn with the mouse, every action is bound to a key somewhere - but they just plain suck at playing their class (warlocks with felhounds out who don't routinely use spell lock to stop enemies casting heals, for example, or use eat magic to take Holy Fire off people in the Maiden fight in Karazhan).

The axes should be: "Clicker <-> Keyboarder", "Noob <->Expert".

For the record, I move using ESDF - S and F are turn buttons, I strafe by holding down a mouse button and then pressing S or F. Yes, there are times that I"m busy selecting targets with the mouse (because tab-targetting sucks donkey balls) and need to keyboard turn.

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