Lane ([info]lane) wrote in [info]worldofwarcraft,
@ 2008-02-04 11:36:00
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Dimorphism in WoW
I stumbled upon this article while looking for Draenei fan art, oddly. O_o Regardless, it has some interesting pictures of tauren and female trolls from the alpha stages of WoW as well as a racial size chart (I know someone was asking about that a while ago).

I know some people here said they prefer the old female troll models, but I honestly couldn't see myself playing a female troll (or tauren) if they looked like they did in the alpha. (As it is, I was very close to making a male tauren druid because I didn't think the current female tauren model is very appealing.)

I don't necessarily have a problem with modeling fantasy characters after the popular ideal of beauty. However, I do wish WoW had generic body size scales or at the very least offered 3 different body types that you could select like any other option, i.e. Slender, Athletic, Robust.

I suppose the women should bother me more than they do, but actually it's the stereotypical comic book musculature of the males that bothers me more. I guess I just find gratuitous abuse of steroids (especially as a caster) more ridiculous than anorexia? I don't know. :P



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[info]what9000
2008-02-04 04:41 pm UTC (link)
Wow, when you look at the women without the clothes covering them, their breasts are so high up it looks freaky. I actually cringed at the naked night elf.

And hell yeah I'd play one of the alpha troll wimminz. I was disappointed when I originally rolled one and they looked so human compared to their male counterparts.

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[info]amurderofcrows
2008-02-04 04:47 pm UTC (link)
Hell yes. Until the Blood Elves came along, they were my least favorite race.

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(no subject) - [info]spiderbabyx, 2008-02-04 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pookiebuki, 2008-02-04 05:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belegdel, 2008-02-05 05:34 am UTC

[info]amurderofcrows
2008-02-04 04:46 pm UTC (link)
I have an extreme problem with the ideal beauty in a fantasy setting, because one of the major themes of fantasy is something hideous being something righteous, overcoming the mark on their face to the power of their soul.

Plus, everybody equates 'ugly horde', which I play, with evil. They don't even glance at lore, which is sad.

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[info]thies
2008-02-04 05:05 pm UTC (link)
if you dont want beauty play a female dwarf :D

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(no subject) - [info]amurderofcrows, 2008-02-04 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 05:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lane, 2008-02-04 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tokudama, 2008-02-04 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xaemyl, 2008-02-04 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thies, 2008-02-04 05:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bryneshrimp, 2008-02-04 05:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cratermoon, 2008-02-04 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]super_sonic, 2008-02-05 01:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lane, 2008-02-04 05:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oh_its_lana, 2008-02-05 01:26 am UTC

[info]exploding_candy
2008-02-04 04:47 pm UTC (link)
I think female trolls looked awesome and much better in alpha. They actually looked like trolls, as opposed to blue-skinned elves with clubfoot. I also prefer the female tauren's body in alpha, but think the face was too masculine. Alpha female tauren body + current female tauren face would be a win.

I actually prefer the appearance of males in almost all the races, simply because I don't like the way most armor looks on the females (especially plate). 2 of my 3 characters are male.

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 05:23 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I admit I prefer the 'prettier' troll, which isn't much of a troll, is it?

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[info]nerglish
2008-02-04 04:48 pm UTC (link)
I think the discrepancy in size between sexes with dranei, orcs, and tauren are pretty silly. Male draenei especially look like turkeys in my opinion. But, I still like my shaman's shapely ass. The only problem I have with the troll models is that the males are hunched over while the females are tall and slim. Just seems a bit stupid. Male trolls are the sexiest out of all the male models imo.

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[info]reservoir
2008-02-04 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Male trolls are the sexiest out of all the male models imo.


/signed



My Draenei priest's ass is hypnotic >.>

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(no subject) - [info]xaemyl, 2008-02-04 11:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geg, 2008-02-05 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]freyareborn, 2008-02-05 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cultureofdoubt, 2008-02-04 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nerglish, 2008-02-04 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cultureofdoubt, 2008-02-04 05:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nerglish, 2008-02-04 05:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cultureofdoubt, 2008-02-04 05:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nerglish, 2008-02-04 05:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lane, 2008-02-04 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anycah, 2008-02-04 05:59 pm UTC

[info]plague_rabbit
2008-02-04 04:53 pm UTC (link)
This is a bit funny as just the other day a friend and I were commenting that we'd like to be able to change the body types of our toons. I, for one, would love to play the alpha female Tauren.

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[info]baisuzhen
2008-02-04 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Male casters looked incredibly ridiculous with the Hulk body; which doesn't fit my lore mindset.

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[info]amypeterson
2008-02-04 05:03 pm UTC (link)
true, but if you had to run to the store and back, or to work, all before the age of 40, you'd be pretty beefy too :P

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(no subject) - [info]smartkitty_86, 2008-02-04 06:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amypeterson, 2008-02-04 07:46 pm UTC

[info]pointy111
2008-02-04 05:01 pm UTC (link)
I think the models were made with tongue firmly planted in cheek - Blizzard's art style, especially in WoW, has always been for "over-the-top and completely pointless" - just check out most armor sets. I think this went just as true for the characters models, e.g. the enormous human males, full-figured human females and, of course, the granny-underwear-wearing female dwarves.

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 05:35 pm UTC (link)
Human females are full-figured? O_o I know their breasts are ridiculously huge, but their body type is fairly slender.

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(no subject) - [info]pookiebuki, 2008-02-04 05:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]super_sonic, 2008-02-05 02:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hatshop, 2008-02-04 06:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pointy111, 2008-02-04 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anycah, 2008-02-04 06:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lane, 2008-02-04 06:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anycah, 2008-02-04 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]etherealdreamer, 2008-02-04 06:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anycah, 2008-02-04 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lane, 2008-02-04 07:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crack_city, 2008-02-04 10:05 pm UTC

[info]thies
2008-02-04 05:07 pm UTC (link)
isn't there a fat male human in old hillsbrad? among with a bunch of other models not used anywhere else...

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 05:15 pm UTC (link)
Yep, there is! I remember saying, "What? There are no fat people in Azeroth!"

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 05:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lane, 2008-02-04 05:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thies, 2008-02-04 05:38 pm UTC

[info]stormshaman
2008-02-04 05:07 pm UTC (link)
What scares me are the hands on the guys--all the males have these disproportionately HUGE hands, especially the Draenei!

Makes you wonder about the old saying about hand size and... >.>

*twitch* Don't want to think about that.

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[info]amarafox
2008-02-04 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Once you go Grunkk you never.. uh..
Go grunkk?

I don't know. :D

*wink and gun*

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(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amarafox, 2008-02-04 06:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 07:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]skeletoncrew, 2008-02-06 04:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]swampers, 2008-02-04 05:18 pm UTC

[info]jdotmi
2008-02-04 05:17 pm UTC (link)
This is something that, scarily enough, EverQuest (original and sequel) got right and WoW simply failed at on an epic scale. Trolls and Ogres in those games look, well, like Trolls and Ogres. Oh sure you can attempt to pretty them up, but they're still Trolls and Ogres. Troll chicks in WoW? Not so much with the Troll.

Draenei women are such dainty little things in this game. Makes one wonder how they ever managed to procreate. Unless all that muscle mass on the males is overcompensating for something. It'd explain the beta joke that the ladies had, at least. "Do Gnomes have a vibrate setting? I'm just curious!"

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 05:29 pm UTC (link)
I miss all the female Draenei emotes they removed. :(

Honestly, most of the males are so hideously ugly I can't imagine any of the females consenting to procreate with any of them. Interestingly enough, the Horde males are the least visually offensive to me and vice versa with the females. Maybe they're all hooking up cross faction. :P

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(no subject) - [info]oh_its_lana, 2008-02-05 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skeletoncrew, 2008-02-06 04:59 am UTC

[info]gonk
2008-02-04 05:20 pm UTC (link)
As a guy I find the female characters to be well.. kind of freakish, especially the gigantic hips. Then again, I find that the male characters look goofy, except Forsaken and Tauren.

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 05:30 pm UTC (link)
I never noticed particularly large hips on any of the female models except maybe dwarves...

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(no subject) - [info]kyidyl, 2008-02-04 06:35 pm UTC

[info]tokudama
2008-02-04 05:24 pm UTC (link)
I really would like a body type option. I've deleted all my human males because I can not stand their beefyness. Some of the female bodies annoy me - I keep my nelf clothed at all times - but typically, I'm more annoyed by certain male bodies. Human male and draenei male are the worst, in my opinion. And occasionally I'd like to roll male toons for some variety :D

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 05:33 pm UTC (link)
I would probably have a couple male characters of my own if I could make them with a slim or moderately athletic (read: non-Mr. Olympia) build.

The skinniness of the females doesn't bother me nearly so much as the disproportionate breast size to the frame. I would really, really like to take the human and dwarven breasts down a few notches.

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(no subject) - [info]tokudama, 2008-02-04 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phoenix_singing, 2008-02-04 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cosmogonic, 2008-02-05 07:35 am UTC

[info]yisca
2008-02-04 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Oh, looking at those alpha pictures I actually would have rolled a female tauren or even troll if they would have looked like that! Love them! I hate how the silly cow looks now and the troll is too feminine in for how I'd picture trolls myself.

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[info]amarafox
2008-02-04 06:08 pm UTC (link)
I prefer the old female trolls and had the female trolls looked like that today, you can bet your bacon that Grunkk probably would have been one.

For some reason I love the really beefy exaggeration of the horde males - except the Belfs, they looked better slender - but not so much on the human or night elf males.

I heart my bloated Grunkk.

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[info]samurairock
2008-02-04 06:12 pm UTC (link)
I'm really fond of the current tauren female model, but the troll female is just too upright compared to the male... aside from that it's a fantasy game you need that unrealistic 'heroic' look it's mandatory ^_^

Oh and... why the heck are the male human models so awful... come to think of it the male NEs are pretty bad too... meh w/e

Edited at 2008-02-04 06:13 pm UTC

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[info]zwanhyrule
2008-02-04 06:42 pm UTC (link)
I liked that article you linked to, although I found it odd that they didn't mention Dwarf Women. Many people love to talk about how ugly the Dwarf Women are, but before I quit I liked playing a Dwarf Female Rogue alt, specifically because I am short and a bit stovky IRL (albeit not that stocky, I am much more "petite", but if I wanted to be a strong dagger/sword wielder IRL I'd probably need to beef up like a Dwarf woman!) In the past I have played tall and lanky characters (and I believe as an expression that I am not tall nor lanky IRL in the slightest) but as I get older I find I like creating characters that are more appealing to me as a woman. In terms of sheer body types I have always liked Orc females and Dwarven females the best. Human females are actually not THAT unrealistic, save the waist size...they seem to have fairly healthy hips. Forget about the elves though...those character models annoy me.

Nothing, however, annoys me more than the human male model. It's ridiculous, especially if you want to play a mage class.

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[info]pyrophile
2008-02-04 06:51 pm UTC (link)
Am I the only person that thinks the Alpha males and females are scarcely indistinguishable? The female troll looks just like a male but with earings, and the female tauren could easily be mistaken for male if it weren't for the bra. I like the more exaggerated sexual markers in the current models.

That being said, they could stand to give the female troll just a little hunch...

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 07:10 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I thought that too.

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[info]saralynn
2008-02-04 06:58 pm UTC (link)
I've always hated the NE female proportions.. they're just.. really bad. :(

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[info]lane
2008-02-04 07:12 pm UTC (link)
Huh, I never really noticed. I was just glad they didn't give the NE females retardedly large breasts.

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(no subject) - [info]pookiebuki, 2008-02-04 07:38 pm UTC

[info]lex_blue
2008-02-04 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I'll always hate Blizzard's extreme sexual dimorphism. At some point during alpha they butchered all of the female models to make them 'prettier' and now you can barely tell they're the same race, which sucks. Ugly or no, the old female trolls were awesome:



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[info]lane
2008-02-04 08:20 pm UTC (link)
Ah, well, that's not so bad. The more illustrated image that they used though you can barely tell there's a difference between the male and female model.

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(no subject) - [info]stealingbabies, 2008-02-04 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anycah, 2008-02-04 10:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hyena84, 2008-02-04 10:33 pm UTC
caster males
[info]cratermoon
2008-02-04 08:09 pm UTC (link)
I would love for my human priest to look more like the typical frail priest or monk seen in the movies -- not counting martial arts movies.

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[info]shivakat
2008-02-04 10:49 pm UTC (link)
I'd love a alpha troll gal. :) For the tauren, I'd take the body but keep the current face.

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[info]ghostlight
2008-02-04 11:59 pm UTC (link)
Personally I think the (pre)Alpha human females were awesome. They were a lot more human.


I find the article interesting, as it comes entirely from a representative school of thought. That is, the dimorphism is bad because it doesn't represent us. For myself, neither of my mains represent me in the slightest physically - they do, however, represent the person I think they are - a hulking orc shaman, from a primitive and might-oriented society; and a darting gnome warlock.
Some of the differences I certainly think didn't need to be made - such as the page-girling of all the females - but at the end of the day, it's a product that's meant to be sold to the mass market, and that's where these images live and why the changes were made.


I think there's about as many girls that want to play women that look like them as there is men that want to play men that look like them. Body escapism takes place in magazines and advertisements, not exclusively in video games.

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[info]shiftplusone
2008-02-05 11:40 am UTC (link)
Bring on the city of heroes style body choices!!

Only having one body set, i guess they had to generalise as much as possible to go with the varying classes, if all belves were skinny, it'd make the paladins really daft looking.


But i guess with the hair mods, thats a start.

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[info]kiwislut
2008-02-05 06:18 pm UTC (link)
I agree with almost everything, except the statement that the female Tauren don't get horns. Last I checked, my shaman's horns were fully intact. Granted they weren't the ridiculous "might as well be a trophy on the wall" horns that males have, but she DOES have horns, dammit.

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[info]freyareborn
2008-02-05 07:19 pm UTC (link)
This actually brings up something I noticed yesterday when my lil mage alt got her first pair of Outland legs. Wanderer's Stitched Trousers Wowsa! And they look completely normal on male toons! I've noticed that a lot of the female clothies have slutty gear. I don't particularly mind but when I first put those pants on, I actually blushed. :p

As far as visual beauty, I may be in the majority but I like to play pretty classes. Maybe I never got over that Barbie thing. It is not the deciding factor in me picking a race but when I change my initial appearance, I try to make them look as cute as possible. It's one of my favorite parts of creating an alt! :p

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[info]freyareborn
2008-02-05 07:21 pm UTC (link)
I totally meant "I may be in the minority." Gah.

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