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    The White Wolf LiveJournal Community - Magey Stuff
    Much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    10:15 am April 18th, 2005
    jachilli
    [info]whitewolf_lj
    [info]jachilli
    Magey Stuff
    Okay, so that last post was kind of mean. I'll make it up to you. Hereafter, five non-setting or -system details regarding Mage, just to give you a peek behind the curtain.

    • It's freaking huge. Two hundred and seventy-five thousand words huge. For comparison, Vampire and Werewolf came in at about 210,000 and 220,000 words, respectively.

    • It's the least like its predecessor of all three of the core games. As we've gone forward, we've pushed the comfort envelope of familiarity (and will continue to do so in supplementary material). While Mage's overarching theme will remain true to what we've always seen as the core Mage idea, the implementation of that idea via setting is very different.

    • Here's confirmation: The setting appendix covers Boston as Mage's signature city. The Boston sourcebook will be the first supplement for the game, and is currently scheduled for an October release.

    • You're going to see a familiar trait name in the Mage environment, but it's not going to be a trait name that's been used in Mage before. What does that mean? You'll find out later. For now, let the speculation begin.

    • We're already working on the index. Right now, we're actually planning on having two indices, one for the basic book/game topics and a separate one for [undisclosed].

    Okay; there you go. Some good stuff and some stuff to make you say, "Hey! What does that mean?" More from us soon.

    Current Music: Ramones, "Judy Is a Punk"
    39 comments or Leave a comment
    Comments
    Thread started by Ben Pascoe
    twicedead From: [info]twicedead Date: April 18th, 2005 02:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
    You're going to see a familiar trait name in the Mage environment, but it's not going to be a trait name that's been used in Mage before. What does that mean? You'll find out later. For now, let the speculation begin.

    I guess "Gnosis"
    (Reply) (Thread)
    ed_fortune From: [info]ed_fortune Date: April 18th, 2005 02:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
    yep, same here. Gnosis is the top of the list. On the bottom of the list is angst.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    twicedead From: [info]twicedead Date: April 18th, 2005 02:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
    That's a shame. I could see Mages with angst... it would make them wear white make-up and dye their hair black. :)
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    maakeff From: [info]maakeff Date: April 18th, 2005 03:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
    The rumour I've heard says it'll be "Hubris", and it'll be the Mage maorality path. And I heard that quite some time ago, too...
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    twicedead From: [info]twicedead Date: April 18th, 2005 03:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
    But that has never been used as a stat in any other gameline. Rather it has been uised as a general term.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    maakeff From: [info]maakeff Date: April 18th, 2005 03:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
    True. Doesn't mean it won't be in there, but I agree that it's therefore unlikely to be what Achilli is referring to...
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    uhlrik From: [info]uhlrik Date: April 18th, 2005 11:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Clarity
    wasn't it supposed to be Clarity or something like that? Heard that on the mage forums somewhere. Hubris is an important theme in Mage, but I doubt it'd be an effective Morality stat. Generally morality stats are couched in terms of a trait considered positive by the character type in general for example harmony for Uratha, Humanity for vamps and morality for regular folks. Hubris, by contrast, is a very negative term.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    aberranteyes From: [info]aberranteyes Date: April 19th, 2005 02:43 am (UTC) (Link)

    Re: Clarity
    Generally morality stats are couched in terms of a trait considered positive by the character type in general

    Which is why I suspect that nMage's morality stat will be Enlightenment. (If I'm right, you heard it here first.)
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    temporaldeviant From: [info]temporaldeviant Date: April 19th, 2005 03:35 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: Clarity
    I'm the one who suggested Clarity. It just really caught on.

    alias ReverseCausality

    Uhlrik makes a very good point that Hubris is more a negative term and isn't likely to be used for a Morality trait, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was used elsewhere.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    uhlrik From: [info]uhlrik Date: April 19th, 2005 03:42 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: Clarity
    oh, allright. Then I sit corrected.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    meandering From: [info]meandering Date: April 18th, 2005 04:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Isn't "gnosis" greek for "knowledge"?
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    chaoticblue From: [info]chaoticblue Date: April 18th, 2005 08:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Yep. That's my bet, too.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    From: (Anonymous) Date: April 18th, 2005 04:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Could be "Glamour"....
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    jamesorr81 From: [info]jamesorr81 Date: April 29th, 2005 05:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Wasn't Mana used in the sorceror offshoot...
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    Comment by Christian A
    wyrm_chris From: [info]wyrm_chris Date: April 18th, 2005 03:22 pm (UTC) (Link)

    275000 words
    Does that mean we'll get 400 pages of Mage goodness?

    0oh.
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Thread started by chris
    halaku From: [info]halaku Date: April 18th, 2005 03:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Familiar Trait?
    Essence... Mages use it, just like the People do.
    (Reply) (Thread)
    eberg From: [info]eberg Date: April 18th, 2005 06:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: Familiar Trait?
    Nope, Mage has had a trait named Essence before.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    Comment by J. Edward Tremlett
    jedwardtremlett From: [info]jedwardtremlett Date: April 18th, 2005 03:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
    How about some more character sketches? : D

    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by Kyle
    symbolic From: [info]symbolic Date: April 18th, 2005 07:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
    It's Mana.

    (p.s not serious)
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by Jagash Vanhal
    jagash From: [info]jagash Date: April 18th, 2005 09:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Arcana or Lore might be used in theory, though i will still hop on the Gnosis bandwagon.
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by little_wh0re
    little_wh0re From: [info]little_wh0re Date: April 18th, 2005 11:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
    "It's the least like its predecessor of all three of the core games."

    This sentance slightly worries me, but thats because I really like the dynamic magic system and will be very sad if its gone

    but then apparently it's non system related so I could be wrong
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by caffeinated cheetah
    eldritch_wizard From: [info]eldritch_wizard Date: April 18th, 2005 11:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
    I am torn between responding in one of two ways:
    "You dirty, dirty whore!" for tantalizing me with just enough information to want me to read the Mage book even more, or
    "I can't wait! I can't wait! I must have the White Wolf intravenous! More powerful than any CCG!"

    When can we expect to see a cover?
    Or when will a nWoD Mage-themed desktop show up on white-wolf.com?
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by phoenix_down711
    phoenix_down711 From: [info]phoenix_down711 Date: April 19th, 2005 12:15 am (UTC) (Link)
    *bows*
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by bishi_wannabe
    bishi_wannabe From: [info]bishi_wannabe Date: April 19th, 2005 01:25 am (UTC) (Link)
    I'm going to say Dharma, because I have nothing to lose if I'm wrong :)
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Thread started by One Hand Rending
    calaanthe From: [info]calaanthe Date: April 19th, 2005 01:50 am (UTC) (Link)
    Am i really the only one who raised a big eyebrow when seeing this:

    • We're already working on the index. Right now, we're actually planning on having two indices, one for the basic book/game topics and a separate one for [undisclosed]

    What could they being doing that requires an index but that they won't disclose at this moment? spheres or their equivilant just needs a list, same with traditions. i suppose it could be like a spell list, but i don't find that real likely...
    (Reply) (Thread)
    temporaldeviant From: [info]temporaldeviant Date: April 19th, 2005 03:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
    I have a theory that I posted on the forums proper.

    oMtA had Rotes, but DAF has both Cantrips and Unleashing. For those not familiar, you could Unleash a spell and attempt to use a cantrip you didn't possess, but you had to roll a separate pool that was against you.

    I expect that most of the casting will be rotes, but you can also use pure dynamic magic via rolling a secondary pool of the Curse which works against you, or something like that.

    This way, the new users will be appeased because they can just follow the rotes, STs won't have to deal with as much stuff being thrown at them on the fly, but people who love dynamic magic still have the ability to just wail out there and do whatever their heart desires (if they have the Spheres for it)

    Oh, and I'm for Gnosis as the power stat and Clarity as the morality stat.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    Thread started by MythicFox
    mythicfox From: [info]mythicfox Date: April 19th, 2005 02:00 am (UTC) (Link)
    • It's the least like its predecessor of all three of the core games. As we've gone forward, we've pushed the comfort envelope of familiarity (and will continue to do so in supplementary material). While Mage's overarching theme will remain true to what we've always seen as the core Mage idea, the implementation of that idea via setting is very different.

    I can't deny that part of me wonders what the "core Mage idea" is... I had a discussion with a friend of mine about that just this past weekend. Vampire has/had "personal horror" as a theme, whereas Werewolf has/had "savage horror." I vaguely remember old Mage advertisements going on about the "edge of reality," but fact of the matter is I got into Mage with Mage Revised. Mage Revised didn't really have the focus of Vampire or Werewolf, and to be honest I never could find a clear and singular theme to it. So, I gotta ask... what is the "core Mage idea?" I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck; feel free to enlighten me, anyone.
    (Reply) (Thread)
    talandar From: [info]talandar Date: April 19th, 2005 02:36 am (UTC) (Link)
    Hubris. It's all about being much more powerful than the pathetic mortals, and figuring that those mortals couldn't figure out what they wanted, so you had to. Of course, that nearly always backlashes in a very bad way. Hell, just twisting reality takes humongous balls and a good dose of unrealistic self confidence and pride.

    Also, in the Red Sign they remarked that the core theme of Mage is hubris.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    mythicfox From: [info]mythicfox Date: April 19th, 2005 02:50 am (UTC) (Link)
    Thanks for the response. I genuinely mean that. I have to admit, I never read the Red Sign, so that might explain why I missed it.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    wyrm_chris From: [info]wyrm_chris Date: April 19th, 2005 06:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
    The core theme is Hubris. The core mood is one of mystery.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    Thread started by Nuge
    From: [info]uomouniversale Date: April 19th, 2005 08:54 am (UTC) (Link)
    How about "Genius"?
    (Reply) (Thread)
    the_capuchin From: [info]the_capuchin Date: April 19th, 2005 01:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
    I'd guess not myself as that was a term used in the previous incarnation (by the Technocracy). I'll have to agree and think it's gonna be Gnosis for this trait and Enlightenment for the morality trait.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    From: [info]uomouniversale Date: April 19th, 2005 03:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Yeah, but only for the Noc. It'd be like saying "Ars Fortuna" can't be in the game cause the OOH called Entropy that. I think Genius is obscure enough.

    Come on!
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    Thread started by anightgirl
    anightgirl From: [info]anightgirl Date: April 19th, 2005 01:18 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Indexing!!!!
    As lame as this sounds did you say indexing????

    DEAR GOD THANK YOU.

    No offense... love WW and your games but seriously, you have one shitty index in the back of your book. Often there isn't even an index there. I can't wait to see a WW book that is indexed properly!

    Congrats to WW!!
    (Reply) (Thread)
    jachilli From: [info]jachilli Date: April 19th, 2005 02:28 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: Indexing!!!!
    I figured some dudes would dig this.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    temporaldeviant From: [info]temporaldeviant Date: April 19th, 2005 03:38 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: Indexing!!!!
    WW guys, you all know we love your stuff, but the indexing does need some love.

    I tried to look up Kiss, The in the index a few days ago and couldn't find it. But that could just as easily be fixed via having a Huge index online that would have pretty much every word.
    (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
    Comment by Marc
    aprogressivist From: [info]aprogressivist Date: April 20th, 2005 03:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Oooh. Boston.

    IÄÄÄH! IÄÄÄH!
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by hedberg_lives
    From: [info]hedberg_lives Date: April 29th, 2005 01:55 am (UTC) (Link)

    ...
    Kharma?
    (Reply) (Thread)
    Comment by Anonymous
    From: (Anonymous) Date: May 22nd, 2005 11:29 pm (UTC) (Link)

    re: indexing...
    ...one of my few complaints about White Wolf's Material...
    (Reply) (Thread)
    39 comments or Leave a comment