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    The White Wolf LiveJournal Community - Rich's Rarebit #10
    Much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    wwricht
    [info]whitewolf_lj
    [info]wwricht
    Rich's Rarebit #10
    Hi Everybody!

    This week I'd like to let all you wonderful folk out there in on why we're releasing Limited Series games and what that means. Basically, we realized that releasing endless supplements just doesn't work in every case. We're actually pretty lucky (and grateful) to be one of the few RPG companies left with fans who will follow a game line and pick up every supplement. Thanks, gang! But on the creative side, the endless model gets harder and harder to make work because there are some ideas or pieces of a setting that call out to be explored, but don't appeal to most of the players of a line. There are directions that take us to ideas that sound very cool, but which aren't in keeping with the ideas, themes or mood that the core book and line are following. Work on any ongoing series for long enough and all those frustrating moments when you couldn't create something that you thought was cool begin to add up and take the fun out of it all. It becomes "just a job". And that's not a point that should ever be reached, because frankly, there are a lot of places where just doing your job and not really caring is OK, but game creation isn't one of them. And those places pay better too. :)

    There's also a practical, economic reason too: Retailers and distributors have for years known that individual supplement sales are less than core book sales and so order accordingly. It takes something extraordinary to even come close to a core book in any given line. Our Players' Guides did well for us that way back in the day, as did those books that tied into a marketing theme like Year of the Hunter or the Gehenna books. But it wasn't the marketing alone (ie, just purely the noise), it was the easy way you could describe a central idea or theme that tied those books together.

    So then, knowing all this some years ago...six or seven IIRC, we wanted to bring back Wraith the Oblivion. But we realized that any relaunch following the endless model was incredibly problematic. We had already done two editions, the direction was hard-wired into the setting and that direction clearly had limited appeal. People who liked Wraith LOVED Wraith, but there weren't enough of them to keep a line running, and those people who had tried Wraith before and didn't like it disliked it to such a degree that they were unlikely to try another edition. Enter the Limited Series publication model. With a Limited Series we could tell a different kind of story, with its own continuity, but still have it touch on the themes we enjoyed from Wraith. Best of all, with the releases being limited, we could publish only the stuff that really worked for the idea behind the line and keep it focused- which meant the books would be easier to sell as a unit conceptually. Thus was Orpheus born as a Limited Series.

    Seeing how that worked out, analyzing fan reaction and sales numbers and retailer and distributor feedback, allowed us to continue with the idea when we reimagined the WoD after Gehenna. We knew we'd be redoing the Big Three of Vampire, Werewolf and Mage but after that we wanted to have the ability to explore which new game lines came out. If we went by previous publishing strategies, then every year we'd need to create a new ongoing game line as well as hiring new staff to create that line- and that line would need to sell as well as the Big Three to justify all that effort and expense. Rather than being locked into a gamble like that as we had been in the past, we decided to create a new facet of the WoD a year as a game line, see what the interest was, and decide whether to add to that Limited Series after it was completed. That way, we knew what sort of resources we'd need to commit, we could explore ideas that excited us and any given Limited Series would contain all the cool stuff that you guys need to play.

    I wanted to push the concept of the Limited Series a bit further though, so while Promethean and Changeling were rolling as we'd planned, I also greenlit Scion as a three book LS. This was the first time we were creating a new RPG game world in a while, and I felt like it was such a fun concept that it needed to (and could) really shine as a Limited Series. Part of my plan after becoming creative director was to shake up our release schedule in terms of not producing the same sorts of books from month to month as I felt (and still do feel) that we'd gotten into a bit of a rut. So, following the same logic as what we'd used for the onset of doing LS's, I put into play an individual book or two that are a kind of mini-limited series. Some of them provide a self contained look within a current line that can be played separately or as part of your chronicle like the phenomenal two-book Rome set for VtR, some are a particular author's vision of an aspect of the WoD like Changing Breeds which was developed and partially written by our old friend Phil Brucato, and one at least that was a totally unique look at the WoD as a sort of parallel game experience- apocalyptic, action oriented and d20- by Monte Cook.

    So what's next in 2008 for LSs you ask? G'head ask...

    Well, there the new WoD game line, the 6th one, what's it called again? For some reason I can't remember... Then there's the five book Clanbook series for VtR which not only deeply explores the history of the clans and their present night activities but also contains an ongoing mystery woven through all five books that leads to a very cool project at the end of the year. There's WoD: Innocents, which provides a kind of play in the WoD that most players have never tried before and which rests in the educated hands of Matt McFarland (that there's a clue, son, a hint ah mean). Also, and very cool news this is, we will be publishing two more Scion books- the first is called something like Scion: Ragnarok and will provide additional rules and cool stuff for playing an Aesir-themed chronicle that takes you til the end of days and beyond. Later in the year we'll be offering the Scion Companion and since we won't be able to get that out until later in 2008, we're going to publish sections of the book as PDFs in the beginning of 2008 first: new purviews, pantheons, relics, antagonists, etc. Probably on a monthly basis, we'll let you know when that's firmed up.

    Thanks-

    --richt
    Comments
    sim_james From: [info]sim_james Date: November 30th, 2007 09:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Great post, Rich. I'm a fan of the limited series model - it was actually very cool to see how everything was encapsulated in the six books of Orpheus' (stellar) run. The reasons you've given for producing a LS make a lot of sense too. As a fan I'm more motivated to pick up the entire line if I know exactly how many books there is going to be.

    Wow, spoiling the themes of the new Scion books already? That's going to shock a few people who are used to months of speculation. ;) They're probably already rushing off to post on RPGnet...

    (I was one of the people who LOVED Wraith. I also respect that it was given one heck of an ending. Using Ends of Empire was a big part of the best campaign I've ever run.)



    Edited at 2007-11-30 09:59 pm (UTC)
    sim_james From: [info]sim_james Date: November 30th, 2007 10:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Oh and hey - the Scion companion gives us a chance to see Donnie Rhodes or Yukiko Kuromizu on a cover! I imagine that Ragnarok will be Eric again...

    wwricht From: [info]wwricht Date: November 30th, 2007 10:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Glad you were a Wraith fan in both incarnations. It was a very intense game.

    Well, the Scion Companion PDFs will be out early next year, so better to let people know they're coming- the Alternative Publishing effort, led by the ever delightful Eddy Webb, will take the spotlight one of these weeks and I'll talk more about what we have planned for this new venture for us.

    Thanks-

    --richt
    flamesrising From: [info]flamesrising Date: November 30th, 2007 10:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Very cool. Thanks for the info...

    I thought the limited series model was a great idea (and Orpheus is an incredible game) and am glad to see that it continued into the new World of Darkness lines.

    The new Scion books sound great. Way to respond to the fans (and the success of the game). Does this mean if other limited series do well more books will be considered?

    For example: If Rome and Camarilla sell like hot cakes might there be another book?
    wwricht From: [info]wwricht Date: November 30th, 2007 10:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
    I'd say that there's always the possibility for more books if it looks like a) there's more to say, and b)there's fan interest. And conversely, just because we don't do more books doesn't mean the LS sucked. Promethean, for example, did well for us but we feel like we did all we need to with it right now when there are other projects to do.

    We'll have to see...

    Thanks-

    --richt
    From: (Anonymous) Date: November 30th, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC) (Link)

    outside the box limited runs?

    I really enjoy reading these Rarebits.

    Are there ever going to be limited runs that are part of an established gameline (such as Vampire) that intentionally change an imporatant aspect of the game just to give the authors freedom to create cool stuff outside of the scope of the original game? Sort of like how the essays in the Requiem Chronicler's Guide have neat ideas for a Vampire game that is clearly a big change to the Vampire corebook rules. Are there ever plans to make a limited run of books based on radical game ideas like this that have actual cruchy rules associated with them? Or should we expect these "outside the box" ideas pretty much only be presented in essay form?
    From: (Anonymous) Date: December 2nd, 2007 07:16 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: outside the box limited runs?

    I think that if the idea is enough to support an LS or a mini-LS inside the game line as in the Rome books' case, then we certainly could. So long as that change can be encapsulated and is significant enough to create a new variation of the game line. Giving Gangrels animal features again wouldn't be enough, making vampirism a space alien virus would be, as a frightening example. Finally, we have to look at whether that variant creates something finite and cool or whether it creates confusion on the shelves.

    Anything in mind?

    --richt
    From: (Anonymous) Date: December 3rd, 2007 05:33 pm (UTC) (Link)

    Re: outside the box limited runs?

    I do have a few general ideas for WOD that I think would be cool:

    (1) I'd like optional supplements that really dives head first into rules for cross-over stories and isn't afraid to give one type of supernatural a clear advantage over another. Like a book that goes along the premise that "mages created vampires and can totally control them using the Death Arcanum by using these 12 rotes." I know this specific example probably wouldn't be able to make an entire book, but something along the scope of this would be a refreshing change.

    (2) I also think it would be nifty to have supplements that describes totally new supernatural magic rules that are not based on the standard "linear list" method that most WOD gamelines have. It seems to me that Mage is the only game line that has a relatively distinct magic system; all the other systems seem too interchangable with each other. A new idea could be a supplement that eliminates the graded 5-dot Vampire Discipline system (where each dot gives you one new power) and replaces it with a system based on some chart or table that correlates the variety of supernatural factors a character has into telling you what powers you have access to. And the list of accessable powers don't necessarily follow a linear progression the way that the current disciplines do.

    (3) Last, I always thought totally throwing away the printed proposed backstory of a supernatural would be interesting. Like a Werewolf off-shoot that completely eliminates the entire spirit nature of werewolves and gives rules for a way to play a werewolf that is closer to the way most stories and movies portray werewolves. And by that I mean a game that could focus more on things like, "finding the prime wolf that bit you so that you an kill it and end the curse." I must admit, however, that there may already be a W:TF book that addresses something this example as I am not fully read up on all the books in this line.

    Perhaps shelf confusion could be minimized by giving books like these titles that have the words "off-shoot rules" or some other kind of warning label.

    -Danny
    sorceror From: [info]sorceror Date: November 30th, 2007 10:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

    So when do we find out the name of Game Number Six?
    jedi_mario From: [info]jedi_mario Date: November 30th, 2007 11:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Seriously. It's pretty much out in the open what its going be about, but it'd be nice to get some solid confirmation.

    As for the topic at hand, I'm a very big fan of the Limited Series format. I'm one of those fans that collects every supplement of the WoD. I'm only missing books from October on right now. I can't imagine collecting the four core lines plus new books on Promethean, Changeling, and the 2008 line. I probably would have to do some cutting back. It also allows me to try out games like Scion.

    The second thing I like about the LS format is that, when the year ends, the gameline feels complete. Promethean feels like a complete game, and I'm sure Scion will feel the same way when God comes out (Although I do look forward to Ragnarok and the Companion). I hope that the LS format continues for both new WoD games and other new games.

    I'm just hoping for a lull on new releases soon so I can catch up on Exalted. . .
    innocent_man From: [info]innocent_man Date: December 1st, 2007 12:09 am (UTC) (Link)
    That's not the question. The question is, when can I unlocked the playtest posts on my journal? :)
    sorceror From: [info]sorceror Date: December 1st, 2007 04:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
    Tease. :-(
    wwricht From: [info]wwricht Date: December 2nd, 2007 07:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
    mmm...mm...mmmph...new year...gasp...mmmmm...mmphhhh.

    Thmmmphs-

    --rmmmcht