BrassKnight ([info]brassknight86) wrote in [info]wesley_lounge,
@ 2006-12-11 21:15:00
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Stimulating Discussion Tonight...
Rather than a rant, I'm going to take a non-directive tactic tonight and encourage you all to volley some thoughts. Granted, some may be in the midst of finals... this should be up long enough for everyone to take a good crack at.

What's 'The Devil' mean to you?

Some brief thoughts: When I slowly lost the belief in a singular person-like entity that was the devil, I never really replaced my trite "devil-concept" with a more sophisticated one. I lost a great degree of vigilance against "evil" (after all... what was evil?)
Recently, I've decided that I believe in the devil as a subversive consciousness that pervades space--- but not time. If such a consciousness were omnipresent in time--- assuming that God brings balance to all the universe--- it would see it's quest to distract humanity as pointless. Being present only in space, this corrosive and conscious force can cling to a sliver of doubt--- and take many of us down with it.

Although the idea of a devil with horns is trite, I think that the personification of this pervasive force may help us to seperate it from ourselves (at least temporarily). It also fosters less of a sense of "I'm not good enough" (and subsequent despair) when we stop to think that there might be a subversive force we need to guard against. I'm saying that we're all capable of being on good behavior for stretches of time, but, if there really is this evil and pervasive force that might cause us to falter, we should be working hard to be aware of the effects (bad fruit)  it might have. (As opposed to the effects of God's consciousness, which are fruits of the spirit... yummy!)

Does that make any sense?

Don't be shy ^^

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[info]poor_cinderalex
2006-12-12 03:09 am UTC (link)
I'll bite because this is a passion of mine.

Warning: Dangerously liberal thoughts ahead.

I don't believe in the devil or any "force of evil."

I believe that the reason why this concept appeals to people (including me at times, I'll not lie here) is because it helps us make sense of our failures and especially pain for which we can find no other explanation.

I think if we look closely enough, which is almost impossible to do, we would find that bad things happen because God gave the free will to act on our feelings of anger, fear, pride, and selfishness in ways that hurt ourselves and others.

It's a bitter cycle that we can try to break by living our lives in Christ's footsteps. But even if we live this way, that doesn't mean we won't have these feelings or be tempted to act on them. And it definitely doesn't mean that no one will hurt us when acting on their feelings.

These feelings aren't caused by forces of evil. But a mixture of circumstances. And the people who hurt us aren't being lured by the devil, they are probably equally hurt, if not by us, but by someone else or some other circumstance. The circumstances that cause hurt can't be products of evil because often, say a hard rainstorm for instance, they cause as much good as they do harm.

I'm late for a study meeting. Hopefully, this is coherent.

P.S. Thank you John for keeping up discussion in this com. I've been terribly remiss in my duties. Also you all should check out the community [info]christianity. They have some awesome discussions.

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*nodding*
[info]brassknight86
2006-12-12 03:20 am UTC (link)
Oh, totally know where you're coming from Alex. That's why I can't except a personification of evil. I still believe it's a tidal force, but I think a more mature view of people's actions and their consequences cannot rely on something as singular as 'THE devil'.

I also was always puzzled by Jesus's references to an 'Evil One' which has prompted me to explore the possibility that He is refering to SOME aspect of Spiritual reality--- quite possibly, 'the devil' was the best conceptualization he could offer a first century Judea. I am hard pressed to believe that Jesus WAS NOT trying to put us onto something, and I think that a heightened awareness is crucial-- or else it becomes too easy to reason ourselves into transgressing against one another and God.

...here's an interesting thought: what about metaphorical demons? In one of his parable, Jesus talks about how, when a demon leaves a man, he returns with several friends and finds the 'house' swept and cleaned. I always interpretted that as when a person kicks a bad habit and then gets complacent. Then the bad habit comes back along with some new, consequential, habits.

I mean to explore 'the devil' as a trend more than an entity--- a very real trend of seperation from God.

I think we differ in that I might still be open to the possibility of the trend having a 'consciousness'. It's a heavy concept to bite into...

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