| knight_of_pan ( @ 2006-12-26 16:04:00 |
compassion in vegetarianism (perhaps part I) (meat is murder)
I know a lot of vegetarians like to consider themselves more compassionate than the average person. However, compassion is more than just what you do or do not eat. Just like many will argue that veganism is a lifestyle and not just a diet, so is compassion. What you do or do not eat does not make you a compassionate person. You can more than make up for the compassion you show towards animals you don't eat by being non-compassionate for your fellow humans.
So, what is the definition of compassion (from Wordnet)?
1. a deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering
2. the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it
Now, that seems pretty reasonable. A compassionate person understands the suffering of another and wishes to relieve that suffering. He has a deep awareness of and a sympathy for the suffering of others. A compassionate person would not wish harm on others, rather he would wish that others would not suffer at all.
So, if you consider yourself compassionate towards animals, yet attack humans and increase their suffering because they don't agree with you, are you compassionate? Not in the least. You simply choose who/what you wish to harm. But, by choosing to harm others, you have left compassion far far behind. By refusing to understand the predicament of others, you have left compassion behind. A key part of compassion is understanding.
So, this brings me to my first point. It's probably the stupidest phrase I've ever heard and it comes from the vegetarian movement. "Meat is murder". That is stupid on so many levels. Many people, when they hear that phrase come out of someone's mouth, consider that person an idiot. I'm usually one of those people.
First, it's absolutely poor grammar. You have two nouns with an "is" between them. Substitute the words. That's much like saying "Tree is truck". It makes absolutely no sense. It is the babble of idiots.
Second, let's take murder as a verb...as if you were going to murder someone. So, let's look up the definition of meat:
1. the flesh of animals as used for food.
Ok. Fair enough. So, what is an animal's flesh killing? How can it be in a perpetual state of murder? To do that, it would have to constantly be killing. Is that what the person who says this phrase means, that meat is, by nature, running around and hacking people up? That by its very existence, it is killing people? Again, the babble of idiots.
Ok. We know what they are TRYING to say even though they are failing miserably at it. All your bases are belong to us. They are TRYING to say that killing animals is murder. They're not trying to say that meat, the product you get from animals you kill, is itself murder. We just have to accept these people aren't too bright and give them some leniency with language and communication.
So, let's look up the definition of murder:
Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
Now, this is the generally accepted definition of murder. Now I know you can look in the dictionary and find:
to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.
but that definition is simply not used. We use slaughter for that. Why is that definition not used in normal modern english? BECAUSE MURDER IS A CRIMINAL ACT.
Think about that. Murder is a criminal act. In war, you don't say the soldiers murder the enemy. They KILL the enemy. That is not murder. There ARE cases of murder during war. We have soldiers facing charges of murder in Iraq. But, the act of killing another human is not necessarily murder.
Another case: If you kill someone in self-defense, people don't say you MURDERED them in self-defense. It is said you killed them in self-defense. As a matter of fact, you can claim self-defense in a murder trial and, if proven, you're found innocent of murder. Killing in self-defense is not murder.
So, murder is a legal definition. It is different from killing. Killing animals is not murder and cannot be murder because it is not covered under murder legally. Now, I know some will say that the law is biased towards humans. That may be true. We have many laws on the books concerning the welfare of animals, however. But, even if it were biased, killing animals still does not constitute murder.
Second, do you TRULY believe that killing animals is murder? Then I have two questions for you:
1. How many butchers etc. have you killed in self defense? As you can see from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defen se_(theory)
self defense is not only to defend YOURSELF, but others as well. If you truly believed someone were a serial killer, was killing others, was going to continue killing others, and was not going to be apprehended before they killed again, then wouldn't the compassionate thing to do be to kill THEM and save all their future victims? Absolutely. By the killing of the one you stop the gruesome deaths of many. You alleviate the suffering of others.
Now, we know that serial killers cannot be rehabilitated. So, if killing animals were truly murder, wouldn't the most appropriate way to stop them be to kill them? You know serial killers will strike again until locked up for life or executed. So there is no other option. How many serial killers that stake out animals have you killed?
2. Have you any plans on locking up everyone that has ever hired another to kill an animal or done so themselves? Have you ever eaten meat? Where do you want to spend your time in prison for murder? Do you consider yourself a murderer? Since society won't put you to death, are you planning on executing yourself since you repeatedly ate meat before you became a vegetarian?
As we can see, there is no statute of limitations for first degree murder:
However, no state has a statute of limitations on first degree murder. It can be prosecuted at any time. For other degrees of murder, there may be a time after which a prosecution cannot be brought. For example, in your state, Florida, second degree murder, third degree murder, and manslaughter all provide for a four year statute of limitations.
Now, wouldn't you say that killing an animal, if it were murder, would be an act of premeditation? You thought about buying that meat beforehand. So, you definitely committed first degree murder if that's the case and there is no statute of limitations on that.
So, where do you want all your loved ones to spend their time in prison? Or, perhaps, what state do you wish them to be executed in? Perhaps Florida? It's a nice place with beaches and such. Perhaps you wish your family to be executed there. If killing animals is murder, then don't you think that willful premeditated murder time and again is justification for execution? In many states it would be.
So you see, the "Meat is murder" slogan is absolutely stupid and ludicrous. Not only is it poor grammar, it's absolutely silly on so many levels. How does this fit in with compassion?
When you announce to a meat-eater that "meat is murder", not only have you announced yourself as an idiot, you've told them that you consider them a murderer. You've told them that you think they should be thrown in prison and executed for their crimes. You have verbally stated that you don't think they have the right to walk on the street as you and share freedom with you. You have said that, in many states, they don't even deserve to live.
Is that compassion? Does it promote reasonable discussion or are you simply attacking another in the most emotionally charged way you can for not being like you? Have you concerned yourself with their suffering, or merely lashed out at them for making choices that you don't agree with?
If you don't think everyone who has eaten meat at any point in their life deserves a life in prison, then I'd be willing to argue that you DON'T think meat is murder and that you're just trying to attack others for making choices you don't agree with. That is deplorable.
I know a lot of vegetarians like to consider themselves more compassionate than the average person. However, compassion is more than just what you do or do not eat. Just like many will argue that veganism is a lifestyle and not just a diet, so is compassion. What you do or do not eat does not make you a compassionate person. You can more than make up for the compassion you show towards animals you don't eat by being non-compassionate for your fellow humans.
So, what is the definition of compassion (from Wordnet)?
1. a deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering
2. the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it
Now, that seems pretty reasonable. A compassionate person understands the suffering of another and wishes to relieve that suffering. He has a deep awareness of and a sympathy for the suffering of others. A compassionate person would not wish harm on others, rather he would wish that others would not suffer at all.
So, if you consider yourself compassionate towards animals, yet attack humans and increase their suffering because they don't agree with you, are you compassionate? Not in the least. You simply choose who/what you wish to harm. But, by choosing to harm others, you have left compassion far far behind. By refusing to understand the predicament of others, you have left compassion behind. A key part of compassion is understanding.
So, this brings me to my first point. It's probably the stupidest phrase I've ever heard and it comes from the vegetarian movement. "Meat is murder". That is stupid on so many levels. Many people, when they hear that phrase come out of someone's mouth, consider that person an idiot. I'm usually one of those people.
First, it's absolutely poor grammar. You have two nouns with an "is" between them. Substitute the words. That's much like saying "Tree is truck". It makes absolutely no sense. It is the babble of idiots.
Second, let's take murder as a verb...as if you were going to murder someone. So, let's look up the definition of meat:
1. the flesh of animals as used for food.
Ok. Fair enough. So, what is an animal's flesh killing? How can it be in a perpetual state of murder? To do that, it would have to constantly be killing. Is that what the person who says this phrase means, that meat is, by nature, running around and hacking people up? That by its very existence, it is killing people? Again, the babble of idiots.
Ok. We know what they are TRYING to say even though they are failing miserably at it. All your bases are belong to us. They are TRYING to say that killing animals is murder. They're not trying to say that meat, the product you get from animals you kill, is itself murder. We just have to accept these people aren't too bright and give them some leniency with language and communication.
So, let's look up the definition of murder:
Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
Now, this is the generally accepted definition of murder. Now I know you can look in the dictionary and find:
to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.
but that definition is simply not used. We use slaughter for that. Why is that definition not used in normal modern english? BECAUSE MURDER IS A CRIMINAL ACT.
Think about that. Murder is a criminal act. In war, you don't say the soldiers murder the enemy. They KILL the enemy. That is not murder. There ARE cases of murder during war. We have soldiers facing charges of murder in Iraq. But, the act of killing another human is not necessarily murder.
Another case: If you kill someone in self-defense, people don't say you MURDERED them in self-defense. It is said you killed them in self-defense. As a matter of fact, you can claim self-defense in a murder trial and, if proven, you're found innocent of murder. Killing in self-defense is not murder.
So, murder is a legal definition. It is different from killing. Killing animals is not murder and cannot be murder because it is not covered under murder legally. Now, I know some will say that the law is biased towards humans. That may be true. We have many laws on the books concerning the welfare of animals, however. But, even if it were biased, killing animals still does not constitute murder.
Second, do you TRULY believe that killing animals is murder? Then I have two questions for you:
1. How many butchers etc. have you killed in self defense? As you can see from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defen
self defense is not only to defend YOURSELF, but others as well. If you truly believed someone were a serial killer, was killing others, was going to continue killing others, and was not going to be apprehended before they killed again, then wouldn't the compassionate thing to do be to kill THEM and save all their future victims? Absolutely. By the killing of the one you stop the gruesome deaths of many. You alleviate the suffering of others.
Now, we know that serial killers cannot be rehabilitated. So, if killing animals were truly murder, wouldn't the most appropriate way to stop them be to kill them? You know serial killers will strike again until locked up for life or executed. So there is no other option. How many serial killers that stake out animals have you killed?
2. Have you any plans on locking up everyone that has ever hired another to kill an animal or done so themselves? Have you ever eaten meat? Where do you want to spend your time in prison for murder? Do you consider yourself a murderer? Since society won't put you to death, are you planning on executing yourself since you repeatedly ate meat before you became a vegetarian?
As we can see, there is no statute of limitations for first degree murder:
However, no state has a statute of limitations on first degree murder. It can be prosecuted at any time. For other degrees of murder, there may be a time after which a prosecution cannot be brought. For example, in your state, Florida, second degree murder, third degree murder, and manslaughter all provide for a four year statute of limitations.
Now, wouldn't you say that killing an animal, if it were murder, would be an act of premeditation? You thought about buying that meat beforehand. So, you definitely committed first degree murder if that's the case and there is no statute of limitations on that.
So, where do you want all your loved ones to spend their time in prison? Or, perhaps, what state do you wish them to be executed in? Perhaps Florida? It's a nice place with beaches and such. Perhaps you wish your family to be executed there. If killing animals is murder, then don't you think that willful premeditated murder time and again is justification for execution? In many states it would be.
So you see, the "Meat is murder" slogan is absolutely stupid and ludicrous. Not only is it poor grammar, it's absolutely silly on so many levels. How does this fit in with compassion?
When you announce to a meat-eater that "meat is murder", not only have you announced yourself as an idiot, you've told them that you consider them a murderer. You've told them that you think they should be thrown in prison and executed for their crimes. You have verbally stated that you don't think they have the right to walk on the street as you and share freedom with you. You have said that, in many states, they don't even deserve to live.
Is that compassion? Does it promote reasonable discussion or are you simply attacking another in the most emotionally charged way you can for not being like you? Have you concerned yourself with their suffering, or merely lashed out at them for making choices that you don't agree with?
If you don't think everyone who has eaten meat at any point in their life deserves a life in prison, then I'd be willing to argue that you DON'T think meat is murder and that you're just trying to attack others for making choices you don't agree with. That is deplorable.