hatredheals ([info]hatredheals) wrote in [info]uwaterloo,
@ 2008-03-06 11:09:00
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A comment on CKMS from a BoD member
This post was just made by [info]synaesthetik to [info]emperorbokassa's topic from February. I'm repeating his comments here so they don't go unnoticed by those who would be very interested in them.

[info]synaesthetik's post:

I'm a member of the current CKMS Board of Directors, and a long-time (13 years in May) programmer at CKMS.



The climate during the referendum was such that none of us felt we could speak without it coming back to revisit the No committee in the form of punishment. I am, however, a Canadian with a right to free speech, and I want to air my PERSONAL opinions here. I will reiterate, what I say here is MY OPINION, not an official CKMS stance.

I felt the adjudication during the committee was biased toward the Yes committee, and that the adjudicator was not an impartial judge.

A few points that drove me crazy, yet I couldn't talk about them during the campaign period...The No committee was sanctioned for "campaigning outside the campaign period." Yet the Yes side set up a facebook group, Join the Yes Committee, and the first member signed up on January 14th--a full 15 days before the campaign started. If the dictionary definition of campaigning is information designed to sway opinion on an issue, it's not a leap of logic to assume that when they sent out facebook invitations, they provided information. Thus, the Yes committee was ALSO guilty of campaigning outside the referendum campaign period. No one noticed.

The so-called "proof" that the Yes committee cites on their website as "fact" (in itself problematic, because the document consists mostly of OPINIONS stated as FACTS), was written by a NON-STUDENT. Since the document is clearly designed to sway opinion, it can be considered "campaigning by a non-student," and therefore should have been ENTIRELY INADMISSIBLE through the campaign. This, too, was ignored.

There are a number of statements made in that document, but I won't address it except to say that Jeff Aho has stated that much of his so-called proof is "anecdotal." That's hearsay, and should ALSO be questioned. And much of the information presented as "fact" is also 3-5 YEARS out of date. There's a reason for that, but you'd have to talk to CKMS directly about it.

My personal opinion, as well (and this is ABSOLUTELY my opinion) is that the campaign was short-sighted. I feel that the Federation of Students, rather than asking 100 of their friends what they thought of CKMS (not a fair cross-section of the 20000 student population), then calling a referendum at a meeting (which was technically legal), should have first approached CKMS with a mediator. If they'd told us what the issues were, worked out a reasonable action plan (instead of griping to each other), and set a budget and timely schedule, maybe some of the issues could have been resolved. Or at the very least, we could work toward a resolution. The next logical step would have been to start a petition, to raise awareness of the issues (and allow CKMS more participation). THEN if nothing happened, with 2500 or so signatures on the petition, call a referendum.

I particularly like that Aho uses "mismanagement" and the goings-on at the Board meetings as some kind of proof of their claims. Yet, interestingly enough, I have been to EVERY meeting this year, and not once have I seen Jeff Aho at any of them.

Broken down, the CKMS fee is $5.50 per term per student, $11 over a two-term year (fall and winter). That works out to $1.38 a month, the cost of a cup of coffee. While my personal sentiment echoes that of Lawrence Tierney in Reservoir Dogs ("cough up a buck, ya cheap bastuhd"), I believe that the approach itself was wrong. If I walked up to anyone and said "Do you want to pay $5.50 for something you don't know about, don't use, and may not having anything to do with?" of course the answer will be "No. give me my money back."

But I don't believe that was the right question to ask. I believe that CKMS is a lively, thriving community that supports the arts and independent music, as well as grassroots politics and journalism--they need all the help we can give. I also believe that students live in a little self-contained island on campus, and that there's a real disconnect between the students and the rest of the community at large. CKMS helps to bridge that gap, by providing multicultural programming (where else can a Cantonese or Spanish-speaking student hear programming in their own language, for free?) and opportunities that you don't get anywhere else. Independent musicians can have their records played on-air, and the opportunity to perform (in a city where live gigs are dwindling) in our Live To Air concerts and various showcases such as every other Friday at the Boathouse.

The Feds' Mission Statement says the following about its "Vision."

Our Vision:
• A united and empowered student community where students pursue both learning and personal fulfillment
• A campus with diverse and numerable opportunities for pleasurable and meaningful life experiences

How is it that college radio DOESN'T fit into this "vision?"

Someone asked why it still matters...Well, I think (again, this is my opinion) that it sets precedent. If the Federation of Students can decide to pull funding (by fair means or foul) from one student organization, what's to stop them from deciding to question every other organization's fees? Who's next? Imprint ("I don't read it so I shouldn't have to pay for it")? Sports ("I don't play them so I shouldn't have to pay for them")? Operations ("I don't use the dorms so I shouldn't have to pay for them to be cleaned") University employees' salaries ("Well, I didn't take that class, so why should I pay that prof's salary?") Slippery slope argument or not, if you're part of a community and you pay fees to that community, that money goes back to the community. You start chipping away at that funding and eventually, you don't have anything. In particular, I think that by pulling funding from CKMS, the Federation of Students is going against THEIR OWN MISSION STATEMENT.

What kind of campus do you want? And is it worth the price of a cup of coffee?



(Post a new comment)


[info]fweebles
2008-03-06 04:57 pm UTC (link)

Broken down, the CKMS fee is $5.50 per term per student, $11 over a two-term year (fall and winter). That works out to $1.38 a month, the cost of a cup of coffee. While my personal sentiment echoes that of Lawrence Tierney in Reservoir Dogs ("cough up a buck, ya cheap bastuhd"), I believe that the approach itself was wrong. If I walked up to anyone and said "Do you want to pay $5.50 for something you don't know about, don't use, and may not having anything to do with?" of course the answer will be "No. give me my money back."


This is not the FEDS' fault, nor is it the students' fault. The onus was on the station itself to demonstrate its value to the community before it got to the point where someone wanted to take the funding away. I graduated in 2003, and didn't see a value to the station before the referendum, and still don't.

Someone asked why it still matters...Well, I think (again, this is my opinion) that it sets precedent. If the Federation of Students can decide to pull funding (by fair means or foul) from one student organization, what's to stop them from deciding to question every other organization's fees? Who's next? Imprint ("I don't read it so I shouldn't have to pay for it")? Sports ("I don't play them so I shouldn't have to pay for them")? Operations ("I don't use the dorms so I shouldn't have to pay for them to be cleaned") University employees' salaries ("Well, I didn't take that class, so why should I pay that prof's salary?") Slippery slope argument or not, if you're part of a community and you pay fees to that community, that money goes back to the community. You start chipping away at that funding and eventually, you don't have anything.


This is beyond a slippery slope argument, it's outright and completely incorrect. FEDS has nothing to do with Housing operations or professor's/lecturer's salaries. FEDS pulling the fees on the radio station will not under any circumstances lead to the University itself deciding not to bother cleaning the dorms.


I'm not saying that the campaign for either side was a pinnacle of fairness or anything. To be honest, I didn't hear anything about the referendum at all until after the fact, so I have no opinion there. I'm just saying, if the No campaign was anything like this particular argument, I can't say I'm surprised that they lost, because the argument is full of holes and makes me not want to believe anything you have to say.

Edited at 2008-03-06 04:58 pm UTC

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mskala
2008-03-06 05:10 pm UTC (link)
The onus was on the station itself to demonstrate its value to the community before it got to the point where someone wanted to take the funding away.

It seems to me that the station made an effort to demonstrate its value as soon as it knew there was any question on the subject, and when it did so, that effort was decried as "campaigning by non-students."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]fweebles
2008-03-06 06:26 pm UTC (link)
I'm talking about years ago, even before the spectre of a referendum was on the horizon.

Commercial stations have to remain 'relevant' (whatever that means) and maintain awareness of their product in order to ensure they continue to receive advertising dollars. CKMS should have been doing the same thing all along rather than assuming that students would be content to pony up money for something that many of them either didn't want or didn't even know existed. I'm not suggesting they 'sell out' or anything like that, but sitting in a dark corner of campus spending this magical pile of money that appears every term without generating awareness of their product seems like a poor business plan.

I never listened to CKMS; I didn't know it existed. (Well, I did in a very general sense from the line item on my fee statement, but I didn't know anything about it beyond that.) CKMS might have been a great product in the early half of the decade! I have no idea. The point is that a large portion of the university population had no idea if it was a good product or not because they weren't even aware of it.

I guess to summarize my rambling: the effort which was decried as "campaigning by non-students" was locking the barn door far after the horse had escaped.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]hatredheals
2008-03-07 04:21 am UTC (link)
Perhaps, but I'm not sure a commercial model applies to a non profit campus-community station like CKMS. Plus it wasn't just a product that they were offering to students, but also various services and benefits. I think you make a fair point however. CKMS could have had a greater presence on campus. I feel that we've exhausted discussion on that front though. Some said that CKMS was working on it, while others such as myself wondered why FedS wasn't helping to promote the station the same way they promote the bomber etc. to which others responded saying that CKMS was autonomous from FedS the same was Imprint and WPIRG are.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Feds' control over the cash
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-07 05:26 am UTC (link)
Ah, there's the rub, dear heart.

The CKMS fee, as well as the Imprint and WPIRG fees, are classified as "Feds-RECOMMENDED." The devil is in the details, as Heather frequently states...and the detail here is that the FedS called a referendum on a bunch of cash that they don't touch. They don't collect the fee, nor do they sign the cheques--the university does that.

My question is why? I have theories, and one of them is kinda paranoid, but mostly the destruction of an organization that can only be a benefit to students, and that has stood for 30 years (longer than most of you have been alive) seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Feds' control over the cash
(Anonymous)
2008-03-07 06:22 am UTC (link)
The strongest argument that I witnessed was that students should approve the fees they pay that aren't related to their governance or education. Education for obvious reasons; governance, because if we didn't have a student governmnet we wouldn't have a legal voice (which we need).

Ultimately, the only thing that Student's council agreed to when they approved this referendum was that (for whatever reason each councillor voted) students should be allowed to determine if they want to pay this fee. There is nothing to say that a councillor voting in favour of this motion didn't vote no during the referendum. The alternative argument is that it isn't necessary / appropriate for students to have a vote on this fee. I don't think our council is made up of philosopher kings, nor do I ascribe to a lippman-esque view of our student body.

Also, (this isn't aimed at you, synaesthetik) but the "it is refundable" argument is ridiculous! It has absolutely no merit. The counter examples are too easy to create.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-06 05:05 pm UTC (link)
I'd like to start first by saying this is the first reasonable argument on the CKMS side of things that I've read on here, particularly the point on the FEDS vision, so kudos to you.

I would agree that the items you mentioned against the Yes side were likely valid and could have resulted in fines to the committee. However the referendum committee does not act as a police officer, if you will, but a judge. Only allegations brought forward to them are dealt with, and anybody, not just undergrads, can file an allegation. So where I'm going with this is, I wish you had filed those allegations against the Yes side.

In reference to your argument about precedent, I think FEDS could perceivably call a referendum on Imprint's fee along the same lines of reasoning. However, it would be, and should be, up to the student body to decide if they are receiving value for the money they give and it is my personal belief that a referendum to eliminate Imprint would fail, because the majority of students see value in it. Unfortunately for CKMS, the same cannot be said. The other items you mentioned (operations, salaries, etc.) are obviously not under the jurisdiction of students and therefore their fate cannot determined by the voice of undergrads (FEDS).

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hatredheals
2008-03-06 09:22 pm UTC (link)
(Students who didn't want to give money to CKMS could have easily voted to keep CKMS and then get a personal refund.)

It's fine for us to disagree on the merits of college radio. However, so severely flawed a referendum process does not serve the interest of students, and I think the process is what's being called into question by his comments.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

"Her" comments, please! :)
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-07 06:43 am UTC (link)
You're correct, it's my opinion that the whole process was flawed, as well as inflated, misinformed, damaging, libelous, and without any purpose other than to trash CKMS and its staff. This grates against my own morals and ethics, which admittedly are a lot more politically leftish than some. So I have to question, beyond campaigning, what purpose does it serve?

I felt that Jeff Aho's opinion that students are under-represented was a very valid one, but rather than tear down the station, why not help promote it and get more students involved?

I wish I'd filed my complaints, too, but I had no idea how, and I was honestly afraid that any action I took would result in both my words being twisted beyond recognition, and in the Yes side finding more fault with the No side, and sanctioning them further. I'm also, as a Board member, in a VERY delicate position when offering my opinions. There's always a severe risk of my words being misconstrued, or taken as official CKMS business. I have to be cautious.

One argument that kept coming up was "convince me." It's always been my personal opinion that you can't convince anyone who's already convinced him/herself, so I can talk until my head falls off about CKMS and how cool it is, how it's self-promotion for students and a link to the community (and just a smug opinion here, students have a poor image in this community, unfortunately, so any way to ingratiate yourselves and connect with the community can only be positive)...

It's also a nice, easy way to throw something on your resume (always a plus with students) without really having to do much. All CKMS asks of its members is to commit five hours (a YEAR) of helping out at various events. And coming to meetings is part of that, so you can claim you did something while you were a student. My belief is you can go to classes and go home, or you can enjoy being part of the campus while you're there.

But if you think it's crap and not worth the price of a cup of coffee, then I can't convince you otherwise. My sincere wish is that cooler heads will prevail, and that we can work together.

I will state, not as a fact to be shredded but as food for thought, that I think it's highly unfair that the general attitude of programmers (not individuals but in general) seems to be that we shouldn't fundraise because we get student funding. Relying on one source of funds is dangerous for any non-profit organization to do.

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-07 06:44 am UTC (link)
I write too damned much. Sorry, everyone, for the length...

Another criticism I saw on the facebook group was that CKMS fundraises instead of raising its profile on campus...So we're often put into a "can't win" situation. Fact is, promotion COSTS MONEY. And regardless of what you're doing, you need bodies there to do it. Speaking only for myself, I desperately WANT for CKMS to be more involved on campus, and to really reflect campus life, but the biggest issue I've personally had with Board meetings this year is that students aren't in the room.

Students are busy and juggle insane schedules (that someone in their 30s can only look at and go "I remember having energy like that once"), so it's hard to have a pool of reliable volunteers, and staff can only do so much. And as a community member when I'm at a campus event, I feel that students are hostile to the old lady stuck in a time warp circa 1996...

If we try NOT to rely on students for all of our funding, we're disconnecting from the campus. And if we try to rely on students' money, we're wasting their hard-earned, tight, debt-ridden cash.

Can you see how the disconnect spirals until neither side can reach out to the other? Then each side accuses the other of making bad arguments (ahem) and the other gets defensive, and it becomes about trying to defend one's statements, rather than about making improvements...Big-enders and little-enders, really, it's insane. Particularly in a climate where people make arguments and throw around ideas and criticisms, and come away thinking they've DONE something. Then they come back all accusatory when nothing changes...How much sense does that make?

What's the value of college radio? I can think of several bands that were getting airplay on campuses across the US and Canada well before they were known commercially. Ever heard of, say REM? The Tragically Hip? Sloan? Nirvana? Finger Eleven?

Sarah Harmer was my first radio interview. That means more to me than a cup of coffee. And it's always the music that's meant the most to me, which is why no matter what else comes up, I can't give it up. I find the distinct lack of community and the fragmentation that comes with the "i-culture" of MP3 players and downloading music sad. Sure, it's exciting that you can get music from all over the world via the Internet, but there's no one to share it with. You're not paying for a radio station, you're paying for a community, and CKMS is part of that community--just like the dorms, the pubs, the profs, sports, the Imprint, and all other aspects of campus life.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
(Anonymous)
2008-03-07 07:32 am UTC (link)
As an another person pointed out, thank you for presenting the first case for CKMS on this site that has been rational.

However, I want to say that one of my biggest pet peeves with the CKMS side of this debate has been the libel claims. It is two faced to accuse the Yes Committee of libel and then slander the referendum committee (how you felt isn't evidence).

To clarify, while I understand the frustration of CKMS volunteers regarding not being allowed to campaign during the referendum, the referendum procedure makes sense. The momentum on both sides of the referendum should come from students. There are a number of potential scenerios where different (larger organizations) could flood our campus with organizers and over power actual student concerns. Further, it is telling if an organization cannot muster enough student support for its campaign.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-07 07:39 am UTC (link)
There are a lot of flame baits in that comment you just posted. I won't delete it, but don't be surprised if no one responds to it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-07 10:57 am UTC (link)
Flame baits in my comments? Sorry...I'm a little punchy because I'm at work.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-07 01:11 pm UTC (link)
Anonymous's comments, not yours.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-07 10:53 am UTC (link)
Thanks. :) I try to be rational but keep to the humanity of the thing. I love CKMS and everything I've had the good fortune to gain from it--after 13 years, it's such an integral part of my life and my activities that it's tragic that it could end. And all over $1.38 a month--if I could have afforded it I would have stood in front of the voting line and offered each person $5 to vote NO! Is that considered campaigning? Highly illegal, but a fun thought....

I'm going to be VERY careful about the libel issue, because that's lawyers' territory and I have to be cautious. My opinion is that if more people looked a step or two ahead, or put themselves in the other side's place (i.e. how their words are going to be received), a lot of things might not have been said or written. I feel that there were certain things said publicly, and in print, specifically on websites and facebook and in Echo magazine, about which the owners of the words should have been a great deal more cautious. I'm in too delicate a position to cite examples, but I believe they exist. And I think the "facts" document was a very bad thing to post on the Yes side's website. I can understand why they might have believed in what they were saying, but I would not have done the same thing.

I didn't see much slander going on, I did see members of the No committee responding (too emotionally) when they felt they were under attack, but you'd need to cite specific examples of this slander for me in order to accept the argument. I'm not discounting it, but I'd need examples. And the libel allegations and the opinions offered by the No committee, I think (I'm fuzzy on the details here, so don't quote me), could be considered two separate issues, so I don't think it's fair to say that one is the same as the other, or it's "two-faced" when you've got more than one issue involved, or when it's more than one person speaking on a matter.

I accept your last paragraph regarding the referendum process and the "level playing field". However, when was the last time all 20 000 students (which is the only really fair democracy) were together on anything? Probably never. It's not a case of CKMS not being able to muster support, since there are plenty of people on "our side," if that's what you want to call it. If I knew why more people didn't vote, I think a lot of political problems would be solved and not just at the campus level. :)

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
(Anonymous)
2008-03-07 07:02 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, to clarify, I was talking specifically about the comments made regarding the referendum committee / Chair of said committee (I am assuming that is what you meant by adjudicator). I have not seen any evidence to demonstrate that their conduct was biased.

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-10 05:55 am UTC (link)
Well....I felt it was biased, and that's on the part of the specific person doing the adjudication.

I also felt (again, this is my opinion) that it's not very proactive to base a campaign on "CKMS sucks," because it skirts the real issue, which is that students should be allowed to decide where their money goes.

My other opinion is...well...Should it be the Federation of Students who decide where students' money goes? (especially when if you don't support CKMS, you can get your $5.50 back, but if you don't support the FedS, you can't get your $34 back)...Because that's something no one really looked at in all the chaos around the campaigning. Are they REALLY the most responsible or objective party to be making that decision? That's where I felt the process was flawed and biased--it seemed to be pro-FedS, which to me isn't *necessarily* pro-students.... But, again, that's my opinion, and truthfully, the way the information was presented, I would have had a hard time making a decision. There were strong arguments on both sides of the case, I'll admit.

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
(Anonymous)
2008-03-10 03:11 pm UTC (link)
How can FEDS not be pro-students?

It's a student run organization based solely to further students needs.

I still don't understand most of the arguments against the referendum. It acts as a review of student services, and clearly an overwhelming majority of voters do not believe CKMS to be a service worth paying for.

Refunds are a point not worth making. Students voted against funding CKMS at a time where refunds were readily available. Clearly students do not believe refunds to be a deal-breaker in funding CKMS.

I understand it's hard to see CKMS go, even I have concerns about what I'll listen to in my car when I'm bored and left all my CD's and iPod at home (it happens quite often). But the reality is it lost touch with campus and really painted itself into a corner. The reaction to the referendum is more offensive to me than commendable. The only time it comes out of the shadows to be on campus is when it's holding itself a birthday party.

If only these events could have happened with more regularity in the past, perhaps CKMS' reputation wouldn't have been as tarnished or unknown as it was during the referendum.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-11 04:19 am UTC (link)
"How can FEDS not be pro-students? It's a student run organization based solely to further students needs."

Like CKMS.:)



"Refunds are a point not worth making. Students voted against funding CKMS at a time where refunds were readily available. Clearly students do not believe refunds to be a deal-breaker in funding CKMS."

The referendum was sold by the "Yes" campaign as a way for students to get back their money. This was done without reference or regard for the existence of online refunds. The "Yes" side often talked as if the refund didn't exist in selling their message and making their case.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]rebound_guy
2008-03-21 09:19 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that new office is pretty darn sweet. I'm sure the majority of students will be making great use of it.

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
(Anonymous)
2008-04-01 05:00 am UTC (link)
Actually, the only really "new" part of the FedS office is the part that students at large will use. That section also had to be re-done, because of moving the FedS store (which cut off the old entrance). And, if anyone has seen Fed Express during the day, I think they will see that the move was warranted.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
(Anonymous)
2008-03-10 05:52 pm UTC (link)
Your point about the FedS is weak for a number of reasons. I will ignore your paranoid accusation regarding the ability of the Exec and Council to act objectively and with consideration of the responsibility that they take on (until you can demonstrate differently). Most importantly, is that your point reinforces the referendum. If the FedS shouldn’t be allowed to have a say over this fee, the only legitimate groups is the UG student body. That is a reason to hold a referendum. Also, can you explain to me what “Pro-FedS” is or how it is mutually exclusive from being “Pro-CKMS”? Just from reading the council minutes I can recognize a number of councillors who were “pro-CKMS.” The VP Internal of the FedS (incoming and current actually) even commented in favour of CKMS! Finally, comparing the FedS fee to the CKMS fee is ridiculous. The only like thing about them is that they both have student volunteers and CKMS has SOME students on its board. However, once you get into the specifics of why they both exist (why the FedS HAS to exist) and what they actually do, the differences demonstrate that the comparison is without merit.

Also, you have brought forward no evidence to suggest that the head of the referendum committee (Rick Theis) or any members of the committee acted with any bias. Without demonstrating how they acted with bias you are just making accusations about the character of these individuals without any evidence.

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-11 04:24 am UTC (link)
"Your point about the FedS is weak for a number of reasons. I will ignore your paranoid accusation regarding the ability of the Exec and Council to act objectively and with consideration of the responsibility that they take on (until you can demonstrate differently)."

*yawn* More trolling and infantile flame baiting. 'I will call you names, and then act like you should respond!'


"Finally, comparing the FedS fee to the CKMS fee is ridiculous."

I agree. The CKMS fee was far smaller and far more useful. (IMO, of course.) It's not ridiculous to compare the fees. You might disagree with what's said, but making the comparison is fair game.

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-11 07:16 am UTC (link)
Well, I'm not interested in being baited. Personally, I think that all the kafuffle about $5.50 is ridiculous, yet here we are. I also have already stated that there are much higher fees that deserve scrutiny before CKMS', since the radio station shows your money in action.

I have always felt that student politics are more of a popularity contest than anything, and have never met a student politician I'd want controlling my money (if I were a student). Likewise, the thought of THEM running the country someday is enought to wake me in a cold sweat. Screaming.

All along, I've been hearing ideas about what CKMS should be, and people think that offering ideas and criticizing anything positive someone has to say about the station is actually accomplishing something. You want to make changes? Our Annual General Meeting is (tentatively) scheduled for March 31. We're holding a Board of Directors election then. I'd STRONGLY suggest everyone come out and join up, since all fee-paying students are automatically members of CKMS. Keep your eyes peeled for posters, check CKMS' website for details once the time and date of the AGM is firm.

In fact, there's a Board of Directors meeting this Thursday--if you really want to see us in action, come to the meeting. Call the station for details on time and place, and if the public is allowed at the Board meeting (we don't have an agenda yet, but we generally hold a members' forum).

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Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-11 08:29 am UTC (link)
Listen in on a session of parliament sometime. The vast majority of ministers don't even bother to hide how imbecilic they are.

The problem is that there will be no college radio at UW to reform once CKMS is gone. This notion some people have of a FedS radio station has no basis in reality. All the equipment is going to be redistributed by the CRTC since CKMS was a registered nonprofit, and there will be no way to obtain a new license once the station is dissolved. Some people have said "Well, I'm not against college radio - I'm just against CKMS", but there will be no college radio as a result of this, and if your problem was with the current individuals involved with CKMS then not only have you thrown out the baby with the bathwater but you've also been vindictive in addition to being short sighted.

This affair will be a stain on the reputation of UW and the individuals driving it. Beyond all the misinformation that was suffered upon students though, what sucks about this is that a few individuals who won't even be here for much longer have deprived all future students at UW of a college radio station. If it's not terribly selfish, it's terribly misguided.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]synaesthetik
2008-03-11 06:31 pm UTC (link)
Thanks, and I agree that without funding, no CKMS (to suck or not).

There are possibilities, but the first couple of years without funds would be a disaster for any radio station. And there are CRTC requirements for staffing, content, and so on...Our license is in place for seven years, so don't think we'll let it die quite THAT easily. :) It just won't be what it is. So I've said all along, if that's what the FedS want, then why not work WITH us, rather than against us?

And I'll also point out, having been there for 13 years...programmers come and go. Boards come and go. Much like the weather, if you don't like CKMS, wait. It will change. That's about the only thing i've ever counted on. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-11 08:56 pm UTC (link)
EXACTLY. So much of the complaints FedS had were about SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS. Whenever I heard people complain about specific individuals, all I could think was "They won't be around forever, don't kill CKMS just because you have personal differences with __________ !" It's another reason why this whole thing was so friggin childish.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
(Anonymous)
2008-03-11 11:56 am UTC (link)
I love the flame baiting comments. One person was calling out another person regarding attacks they made against an entire group of individuals. If you flame an entire organization, don't expect members or supporters of that group not to respond.

If you want to compare the membership fees of an outside organization, which happens to have student membership to the student government, have fun. I will be off comparing apples to oranges if you need me.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "Her" comments, please! :)--part 2
[info]hatredheals
2008-03-11 12:05 pm UTC (link)
Both are fruity.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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