Typhoid Mary ([info]supervixen528) wrote in [info]uw,
@ 2004-10-02 02:05:00
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un. real.
Did anyone read the trash that passed as an opinion article published in The Daily today on page four? I was speechless for a full ten minutes after reading it. Comparing persecution of conservatives to persecution of gay people??? I have to wonder what it's like in her head, to be so high on herself that she thinks debates with fellow students in class is anywhere near the hate crimes directed at gays. I don't get what she wants? For us to go, "Oh, I'm sorry baby, it's so hard being a conservative. Here, we made you some clubs. This way if the evil liberals come after you with their sharp sharp words, you have a place to hide."

This is an institution of higher education. In Seattle. Duh, there are going to be a lot of liberals here.

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[info]rocza
2004-10-02 09:41 am UTC (link)
Well, no, I didn't read "the trash that passed as an opinion article." I read an opinion article that happens to voice an opinion I don't fully agree with.

I think she's completely right in saying that there is a double standard of treatment of people; no one would have tolerataed someone following after and screaming at a reporter (or opeditor) who had written a piece supporting gay marriage, but there aren't a lot of avenues for someone promoting a conservative Christian viewpoint to persue when they're being harassed in a similar manner.

She didn't compare the persecution of conservatives in society at large to the persecution of gay people in society at large. What she did do was point out that conservatives are often treated as the pariahs that GLBTs are assumed to be. The mistake she made was in assuming that the GLBT groups on campus are protesting against the campus, when they're generally protesting against society - a big difference from a conservative, who's protesting against campus, and not so much society at large.

I certainly hope she keeps writing her oped, though - it's easy to read something and like it and agree. To read something and disagree with it forces you to think about what you dislike and why, and to formulate arguments against it rather than nod your head yes and move on to the next subject.

Besides, diversity is a good thing.

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[info]schrodinger
2004-10-02 10:15 am UTC (link)
Message deleted due to hastiness. In the midst of actually reading the article now.

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[info]schrodinger
2004-10-02 10:23 am UTC (link)
Okay, now that I've actually read the article and calmed down (apologies to rocza), my main question if anyone has a copy of the original column that inspired the one in question so I can see whether or not it was actually offensive. Anyone?

In general, I fail to see why Erika makes such a big deal about her role on the Daily. It's not like she's the first right winged conservative to get an opinions column.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]rocza
2004-10-02 04:55 pm UTC (link)
:) No worries. When reading your original comment, I realized that I should have drawn a much clearer line in "on the UW campus" versus "outside the cushy life of academia".

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]schrodinger
2004-10-02 10:02 am UTC (link)
"People keep talking about tolerance, but I don't see anybody tolerating my racism! Ha, what do you have to say to that?"

-John Rocker sketch on Conan.

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[info]szymanowski
2004-10-02 10:28 am UTC (link)
If campus conservatives aren't very well liked, then I think this type of article is probably the exact reason. They enjoy their "persecuted minority" status just a little too much, giving oversimplified arguments like this one (Republicans on campus are worse off than gays??) that are clearly designed to rile people up. The liberal reaction against such arguments is then, of course, just another case of demonization and further proves they are persecuted. I, and I'm sure many other people, would enjoy reading conservative opinion pieces as long as they're intelligent and rational.

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[info]schrodinger
2004-10-02 10:36 am UTC (link)
I think I'll write an article sometime about how conservatives should all be brutally murdered in their sleep and fed to the homeless.

Then when they start whining about how they disagree with me, I'll use their disagreement as an example of why liberals are unfairly persecuted in this world, just for having an opinion.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_norah428, 2004-10-02 10:43 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schrodinger, 2004-10-02 11:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]paddyb, 2004-10-02 03:55 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]szymanowski, 2004-10-02 11:27 am UTC (Expand)

[info]vaultdweller
2004-10-02 05:14 pm UTC (link)
College Republicans : UW :: Furries : Internet

Think about it. Furries have a heightened persecution complex and believe everyone is out to get them and compare their plight to that of the Jews in 1930's Germany, while the College Republicans do the same thing while using homosexuality as an example. They both believe utterly in the fact that they are oppressed and repressed minorities and will stop at nothing to get people to notice that. Certainly they are both the outcasts of their respected social niches, but it's not enough to warrant a Python-esque 'help me I'm being repressed' attitude and make them define themselves by this repression. However, the thing they don't realize is that this makes them even more laughable. I'm sure it's bad for them, but it makes reading their articles a whole lot funnier.

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(no subject) - [info]joeberentsen, 2004-10-03 01:05 am UTC (Expand)

[info]cow
2004-10-02 02:25 pm UTC (link)
Just take that last sentence, and change it a little...

"This is a rural town. In Wyoming. Duh, there is going to be a lot of hatred against gays here."

...hmm.

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[info]paddyb
2004-10-02 03:57 pm UTC (link)
your analogy is flawed. nowhere in her last sentence do i see the term "hatred"

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[info]prospectivebum
2004-10-02 06:11 pm UTC (link)
The appropriate analogy...

"This is a rural town. In Wyoming. Duh, there is going to be a lot of conservatives here."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schrodinger, 2004-10-02 09:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]rocza, 2004-10-03 12:39 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schrodinger, 2004-10-03 02:10 am UTC (Expand)
*double twitch* - [info]prospectivebum, 2004-10-04 03:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]baloneybubbolio, 2004-10-04 04:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]prospectivebum, 2004-10-04 03:48 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]cow, 2004-10-03 12:54 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]muhammad_allah, 2004-10-04 04:03 am UTC (Expand)

[info]supervixen528
2004-10-03 12:17 am UTC (link)
That's why I'm not moving to Wyoming as a liberal, writing asinine comparisons, and acting all victimized that I'm in a political minority.

Is it right that she feels she can't express her own opinion on campus? No. Is it entirely her fault that she can't tell her ass from her head and make a reasonable argument? Yes.

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(no subject) - [info]cow, 2004-10-03 12:55 am UTC (Expand)

[info]micahellison
2004-10-02 04:02 pm UTC (link)
I don't want to double post, but this was already talked about on [info]udub and I think I had a few poignant things to say there. =P

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[info]garpu
2004-10-02 06:58 pm UTC (link)
Minor hijack, but what's the difference between the two communities?

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(no subject) - [info]kitanaor, 2004-10-02 08:05 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]micahellison, 2004-10-02 08:40 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jitterbean
2004-10-02 08:36 pm UTC (link)
It's not really unreal, it's more just business as usual. The CRs always have a couple of people on the editorial board and they always print editorials of about that calliber. By now it doesn't even piss me off, it just bores me. I've heard the whiny, ill-communicated messages before.

But if you're new to this, look out for party-line arguments against abortion, more conservatives-as-victims pieces, and a couple of "liberals are such intolerant hypocrites" rants. Expect nothing of quality, and no real discussion to be provoked.

My stated plan is to lay off the Daily this year, because it's just more of the same, but like a train-wreck I fear I won't be able to look away... But they stopped publishing my LTEs long ago, so getting too worked up is kind of pointless.

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[info]schrodinger
2004-10-02 09:42 pm UTC (link)
My favorite was when some douchebag conservative sent in a letter to the Daily whining about how he went to a anti-war rally with pro-war banners and was asked to leave. Somehow, this proved to him that he was totally right in his convictions, and that all the liberals were liars and hypocrites.

Now, recap: He went to an ANTI-WAR rally with PRO-WAR signs, and his main complaint was that, well... they rallied against him. The guy pushing for WAR at an ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATION.

I suppose that in his warped mind, the non-hypocritical thing for the anti-war protestors to do would be to welcome his pro-war banners with open arms. After all, if they're so anti-war, then why shouldn't they embrace the war? It's something that makes perfect sense... if you're a conservative.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I tend not to take these whiners very seriously. These people don't understand what it means to actually be oppressed. Rather, they're born with such a feeling of entitlement for their views that they get shocked and appaled when people have the audacity to disagree with them in public.

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(no subject) - [info]sus7, 2004-10-03 02:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]supervixen528, 2004-10-03 03:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schrodinger, 2004-10-03 03:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sus7, 2004-10-03 03:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schrodinger, 2004-10-03 03:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sus7, 2004-10-03 03:00 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schrodinger, 2004-10-03 03:53 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]supervixen528, 2004-10-03 05:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]chariqueer, 2004-10-03 10:51 am UTC (Expand)

[info]telmari
2004-10-02 11:30 pm UTC (link)
Interesting article.

Though I attend UW Tacoma and not UW Seattle, I have friends up there and am up there pretty often, so as a disclaimer to my opinion, I can't say I know everything there is to know about the environment there, only that my experiences have shown the two campuses to have similar general student schools of thought.

First off, my personal views generally place me more on the conservative side than the liberal side, but I wouldn't say they push me so far as 'right wing'.

That said, I think I would personally disagree that in general, conservatives are 'persecuted' as much as people in the GLBT community. I'm straight, but I do have a few gay friends, and have been able to clearly observe the social stigma against GLBT's - and from what I've seen, this stigma is much greater than that against conservatives, I think both on campus and off, even despite all the activist groups. With issues like this, often times a stigma isnt so much spoken as felt - aka, it would be hard to get everyone to 'agree' to accept a certain group in society, as acceptance is a more personal thing. It's not like a law where you can just vote on it, it's something you have to come to terms with personally, as to whether you accept or reject either beliefs, or people, or even both. (too often, people reject people, not just beliefs).

I think the heart of the matter here, or what should be is not as much 'are conservatives more bullied than GLBT' but more 'are people who hold beliefs contrary to the mainstream opinion discriminated against'. Figuratively speaking, it shouldnt be more or less 'acceptable' to discriminate against any minority, in general. Again, this goes back to peoples feelings and emotions over the issue, be it political views, sexual orientation, or any variety of other things.

-- All that aside,

I suppose what the author of the article is trying to relate is that she feels that there is a 'social stigma' on campus against right-wingers.

I would like to contend that the stigma is simply more of a stereotype. What do I mean? Simply that there is often a stereotype, as previously discussed in this topic entry, on more liberal university campuses against conservatives, because sometimes they are seen as having less or weaker supporting arguments for why they are 'right wingers'. It's not as much (or , shouldn't be as much) about people who have different beliefs as it is about people who can make reasonable, defensable arguments for what they believe and why.

I know that I respect the point of view/beliefs of anyone, so long as they can provide a reasonable, thoughtful background as to why they feel/believe that way. Likewise, I know that even my liberal friends who hold a few beliefs contrary to mine are able to get along with me just fine because they know I can back up my stance on anything with a defensable, logical reasoning.

Ultimately, I dont think the conservative side has to deal with nearly as much harrassment, whether silent or voiced, as much as the GLBT community has to. Further, I think if conservatives on campus are feeling persecuted, it's because they are either dealing with people who are biased against them as people, not just their viewpoints, or else they are voluntarily making themselves part of the 'right wing' stereotype by not proving to others (when applicable and reasonable, of course) that they do have specific and logical reasons why they believe/feel the way they do, instead of just going along with the sterotype.

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[info]bgtothen
2004-10-03 05:57 am UTC (link)
As a student at the UW I feel that the YR's, as you suggest, make themselves into the stereotype. I do not agree with them, but I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is how the YR's set out to offend minorities and liberals. For example 2 years ago the YR's were all smoking cigars on national lung awareness day. Or last year they had a huge BBQ on national animals rights day. Or how about the bake sale last year. They are perpetuating the stereotype of conservatives.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]telmari, 2004-10-03 07:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jonfrost3, 2004-10-03 03:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]telmari, 2004-10-04 12:44 am UTC (Expand)

[info]adamforest
2004-10-04 03:34 am UTC (link)
I bet the lot of you was waiting for me to make an appearance.

Let me ask first, how are the CR's, as a very vocal and sometimes offensive voice for the political minority at UW any different than the very vocal and sometimes offensive political minority often seen at your various weekend protest march (compared to the political canvas of the rest of the nation)? You could tell me "100 million people around the world protested the War in Iraq on the same day!!!" and I would just say that you're being stupid and stirring up shit for nothing because nobody is listening. But why should we even attempt to brand controversial speech as simple idiocy and unworthy of any thought in the first place? Where would we be now if those who were considered "unpopular" in their own right never spoke out?

It seems that the big issue here is the comparison of gays to CR's in terms of being discriminated against for their chosen lifestyle or viewpoint. I would have to agree that any sort of oppression against campus conservatives is obviously nowhere near the outwright discrimination faced by many social minority groups. That aspect of the article went a little too far. Besides, the very claim of censorship against conservatives at UW is trumped by the fact that this article was printed to begin with.

And yet that is no reason to discount the existance of a certain anti-conservative bias on this campus. Discrimination is not a term that is meant to be skin deep, for it applies to all minorities; social, economic, racial, political, and so on. And it certainly doesn't apply to everyone who calls themselves a conservative either. Although I hate using the phrase, many times the CR's invite ideological discrimination. But even then, why should anyone ever have to worry about inviting discrimination from anyone or anything?

From the beginning, the issue has never been about how bad CR's "feel" that the majority of students at UW actively disagree with them. Honestly, who gives a flying fuck. But the moment that a call comes down from above to silence someone or some group over the "sensitivities" of another, that is blurring the boundary between free speech and censorship. That is where these "whiners" as you call them draw the line. And again, who gives a flying fuck that you think they're being "childish and dumb."

Time and again, the focal point of your distaste with CR's is that all they do is bitch about being oppressed. But then you turn right around and defend the sympathies of those who bitch that we shouldn't be offending them. What's it gonna be? So the CR's piss you off with their assinine events and their in-your-face attitude all the time. To use your own words, cry me a river.

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[info]disheveledpixie
2004-10-04 03:50 am UTC (link)
Yep, the young republicans at uw are full of shit (bake sale memories, anyone?).

Don't even read anything by [info]adamforest (president of the young republicans). His ignorant/illogical/racist posts made me want to shove a pen through my eye.

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[info]bergmanmh
2004-10-04 03:50 pm UTC (link)
I thought his post was rather well written...

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[info]jameth
2004-10-05 06:22 pm UTC (link)
In general, The Daily is always trash. Soooo many typos and shit. It's horrible and somewhat embarrassing.

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[info]jameth
2004-10-05 06:27 pm UTC (link)
p.s. I'm a man who is married to another man and I didn't really think that it was a great comparison either. Anyway... perhaps I should write my own opinion piece and send it to The Daily on how I seem to be discriminated against more now that my husband and I are married (insurance companies and other legal things, etc., marriage is quite messy but i suppose all marriages are like this at first..?)

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[info]jameth
2004-10-05 06:39 pm UTC (link)
Not sure if anyone posted this, but here's the response from the GBLTC campus group:

http://thedaily.washington.edu/all.lasso?-database=DailyWebSQL&-table=Articles&-response=opinionpage.lasso&-keyField=__Record_ID__&-keyValue=10189&-search

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[info]buttonskitten
2004-10-06 06:01 am UTC (link)
Wow, that's a much nicer letter than i could have written. I kept starting letters to the editor, but the all got angry and i would begin to call her names.

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