Desperately Random ([info]crossoverman) wrote in [info]tommywestphall,
@ 2007-08-02 15:40:00
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Entry tags:non-tommy, press, tommy in melbourne

Tommy in Melbourne...
The Green Guide in Melbourne's The Age newspaper today discusses a crossover between Crossing Jordan and Las Vegas. It discusses crossovers in general - why they happen, when they work best - and then discusses the Tommy Westphall theory and the site.

The writer's conclusion: "So [Crossing Jordan and Las Vegas] don't really exist. And thank God for that because they are awful."

Read the full article under the cut. Thanks to [info]paulbot for transcribing it...


Critic's View
Lucy Beaumont

This was going to be a simple discussion about crossover appearances.
About how networks and producers stuck for ideas regularly pluck one
or two characters from one show and temporarily insert them into
another.

The shows that do this most effectively are crime shows and soap
operas. These genres work because the character types are fairly
inter-changeable and there are plausible reasons for people to pup up
somewhere else.

Detectives working on a crime in New York might find a clue that leads
them into another jurisdiction.

In soap land, a cosmetics mogul from Genoa City might liaise with
fashion pack in LA (see current The Bold and the Beautiful storyline
featuring Ashley Abbott from The Young and the Restless or previous
appearances on both shows by Lauren Fenmore), which is believable.

Sometimes a crossover appearance is merely a lame promotional tool,
leveraging the appeal of one show to boost a flagging stablemate (see
Ally McBeal and the Practice). Sometimes it's a natural fit (The
Bionic Woman
meets The Six Million Dollar Man).

There are in-jokes by producers (the song by Driveshaft in Lost
apparently plays in the background of an episode of Alias, another
show created by J.J. Abrams).

Then you've got your spin-offs, which occasionally match their
forebears (Frasier) but frequently detract from the show that spawned
them (hello Joey).

So this preview of Las Vegas / Crossing Jordan -- in which Danny and
Delinda (Las Vegas' Josh Duhamel and Molly Sims) visit Boston for a
romantic break that includes boxing and murder -- was going to note
how characters can flounder or flourish outside their natural TV
habitat.

Blonde stunner, Delinda, for example, reveals an aptitude for ionic
spectrometry and a strong stomach. Danny, on the other hand, gets into
a beefcake-off with Woddy (Jerry O'Connell).

But none of that matters -- thanks to Tommy Westphall.

He was not a pit boss or a mortician on screen or a director behind
the scenes, but it turns out he is the lord and master of these shows
and hundreds of others.

He was an autistic kid, played by Chad Allen, who appeared in the last
episode of 1980s hospital drama St Elsewhere. In the final frames he
shook a snow dome with a hospital inside, St Eliguis where the soap
was set, implying that the entire series had been a figment of his
imagination.

That's not the end of it because of crossover between St Elsewhere and
other shows. If St Elsewhere doesn't exist, neither can its co-created
Homicide: Life on the Streets. If that latter doesn't exist, there
goes the entire Law & Order franchise. And Chicago Hope and ER and down
the line X Files and therefore The Simpsons.

The theory goes that any show tracing back to St Elsewhere exists only
in the fictional sphere of Tommy's mind. Somebody has plotted out all
the shows connected in this way (it's on the Internet for the geekier
among us) and it goes right back to 1951's I Love Lucy and forward to
today, 282 shows in all, including Crossing Jordan and Las Vegas. So
these two shows don't really exist. And thank God for that because
they are awful.

END OF ARTICLE


In other news, if The Simpsons counted, then 24 would be part of the Westphall Universe madness - with Keifer Sutherland appearing as Jack Bauer on a recent episode, "24 Minutes".

But animated series don't count. I wonder if Prime Time animated series should...



(Post a new comment)


[info]buffyannotater
2007-08-02 06:41 am UTC (link)
The Simpsons is usually on publications' Best Sitcoms list, so it could count if you wanted to let that in. But then of course you'd also be adding on Futurama and The Critic, because of Bart Simpsons crossovers, as well as South Park and Family Guy, due to South Park and Family Guy episodes linking all of them. And once you factor all those animated shows in there, you have an insane number of other things via pop culture references and whatnot.

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[info]crossoverman
2007-08-02 06:50 am UTC (link)
The problem isn't The Simpsons. (And actually for our purposes, Futurama isn't linked to The Simpsons... Bart only ever appeared in that as a doll.) I knew that it would bring in Family Guy... and King of the Hill, but I didn't realise South Park would come in.

But we don't really like making exceptions to our rules. Letting one animated series in, also lets in Hanna Barbera madness... and that way lies, uh, madness.

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[info]lokicarbis
2007-08-02 09:16 am UTC (link)
Maybe there should be a separate animation-only universe...

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[info]crossoverman
2007-08-02 10:05 am UTC (link)
That's for someone else to compile :-)

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[info]buffyannotater
2007-08-02 03:43 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I thought there was an episode where The Simpsons watched a few seconds of Futurama, or vice versa. And I'm pretty sure that happened on The Critic, too, in the first or second episode. It might have been in the opening credits. South Park links because there's an episode where Cartman goes to storm Hollywood to protest how badly Family Guy sucks, and meets Bart Simpson along the way (or a vaguely-disguised Bart for copyright issues). But yeah...Hanna Barbera...madness.

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[info]crossoverman
2007-08-02 09:21 pm UTC (link)
Well, watching Futurama doesn't make them part of the same fictional universe either :-)

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Simpsons should be an exception
[info]goodevilgenius.blogspot.com
2008-03-12 05:43 pm UTC (link)
I just found this site the other day, and think it's great.

I'd like to say that I understand your reason for excluding cartoons to avoid the Hannah Barbera and DC tooniverses making it unreasonably messy.
However, Simpsons is such an American classic that not including it seems just wrong. Perhaps an exception could be made just for Simpsons. Especially since Simpsons is already connected to three shows already in the Tommyverse (X-Files, Cheers, and 24).

Plus, I don't think Family Guy and Simpsons are legitimate crossovers. There are certainly references on each show, and yes, the characters from one do appear on the other (Peter Griffin appearing in a group of Homer clones, Stewie running over Homer on his bike), but those are just vague joke references. I don't think they were seriously intended by the writer's to indicate a shared reality. Especially since there are episodes on both shows indicating that Family Guy characters watch Simpsons episodes and vice versa. They exist as TV shows in each other's universes, not actual people.

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[info]admiralmemo
2007-09-21 05:05 am UTC (link)
There's a problem with The Simpsons and Futurama: Matt Groenig has decided that each show would be fictional to the other. So, while you never get to see Bart as a person on Futurama, Bender DOES eat his (doll's) shorts on an episode.

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[info]paulbot
2007-08-02 06:49 am UTC (link)
with Keifer Sutherland appearing as Jack Bauer on a recent episode, "24 Minutes".

As well as Mary Lynn Rajskub as fabulously snarky Chloe O'Brien.

I wonder if Prime Time animated series should...

Would that count prior Prime Time animated series like The Flintstones and their non-prime time spin offs? That would expand things like crazy!

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[info]crossoverman
2007-08-02 06:55 am UTC (link)
This is why we keep animated shows out, because of The Flintstones and associated madness... Actually, I think the problem stems from The Brady Kids! And expands ever outwards...

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(Anonymous)
2007-08-02 01:22 pm UTC (link)
Madness or not, I am a supporter of including animated series. Afterall, that just proves more and more how intricately linked all televised fiction can be. And bad as Brady Kids, to name one, might be, there is the fact that quality is never a rule for inclusion.

Perhaps I should just start my own (complementary) site to document the animated connections.

Of course, they don't stay in a purely animated world, as proven by the 24/Simpsons episodes (and many more). My favorite of these would have to be that the entire "DC Animated" group, which started with Paul Dini & Bruce Timm's Batman in 1991 or so, also includes Birds of Prey (again, quality doesn't matter), as Mark Hamill voiced the Joker in one sequence, just as he did for those cartoons. Of course, none of those programs can be linked to the Tommy-verse...yet.

Two final things:
1) Joss Whedon apparently reported at the San Diego Comic-Con that he is once again talking to the BBC about having the series "Ripper," a Buffy-spinoff for the character of Giles. They will apparently air it in Britain first and make it along the lines of a British series (shorter seasons). So far as I know, this would be the third time a series has had a spin-off made in another country: in the 1950s, there was The New Adventures of Martin Kane, which moved that private eye to the UK, and, in the 1980s, there was an Australian version of Are You Being Served?, which brought Mr. Humphries to a branch of Grace Brothers in Sydney for 8 episodes or so.

2) Is there a Tommy-verse rule about puppets, specifically the Muppets, who interact with live actors and are treated as characters in their own right and not as simply dolls being used to perform?

Hugh

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[info]crossoverman
2007-08-02 09:25 pm UTC (link)
I believe we have found a connection to the DC Animated verse, but can't remember what exactly - because it was animated, we didn't really keep track of it.

AFAIK, "Ripper" will be a one-shot TV Movie. After that, we'll see.

I'm not sure that there was an Australian "Are You Being Served" series, but there was definitely an "Are You Being Served Down Under" special...

I think we'll discount Muppets, too - as much as I loved Sesame Street's Law & Order: Special Letters Unit. Because, you know, Munch!

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(Anonymous)
2007-08-02 10:43 pm UTC (link)
Are You Being Served? definitely had a one-season run as an Australian sitcom--it has not aired outside the land down under, but I've read synopses and seen bits showing it did exist.

The latest info on the Ripper spin-off does suggest it will be a series as well, and it may likely never even be seen, but it would be nice to have the show for both the crossover and the fact it has some potential as a good program.

I'd love to know the link to the DC shows. I've thought before that many of the DC-inspired shows could be tied through the use of STAR Labs, as it's a common fictional place.

I do think the Muppets should be included, given they are treated as "real" when they interact with live actors. I wouldn't try to connect shows because there are Muppet versions of characters, as with L&O:Special Letters Unit (although there was a Muppet of Worf on Sesame Street's "Spaceship Surprise"), but at least one opening, as I detailed in an earlier post, goes to The Cosby Show, which is already on the grid.

I think the answer is that I'll have to setup something which traces crossovers not covered here, including animated and Muppet. I always find it fascinating to compare the rules set up here and at Toby's and Thom Holbrook's sites.

Hugh

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[info]crossoverman
2007-08-03 12:34 am UTC (link)
I think the answer is that I'll have to setup something which traces crossovers not covered here, including animated and Muppet. I always find it fascinating to compare the rules set up here and at Toby's and Thom Holbrook's sites.

I'm all for Tommy Westphall:Animated - if you can manage it. Or whatever variation on the crossover theme you have. I love Toby and Thom's collections as well.

Are You Being Served? definitely had a one-season run as an Australian sitcom--it has not aired outside the land down under, but I've read synopses and seen bits showing it did exist.

Well, well, well - you are right! There was also a spin-off of the original series called "Grace and Favour". And a movie version.

Bizarre.

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[info]momsdinercodelj
2007-08-03 02:23 am UTC (link)
I agree, the Muppets should count. They are characters in their own right.

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[info]momsdinercodelj
2007-08-03 02:18 am UTC (link)
If you started including cartoons, the dam would break. Family Guy alone would necessitate turning the grid into a hypercube, much less the Simpsons or every Hanna-Barbera show ever. And I say this as someone who believes that basically every wrestling show ever is part of the Tommyverse thanks to Nikki (which would also put Arli$$, Shasta McNasty, and the Robocop TV series in, BTW) and wants EastEnders to be in, so I'm not an exclusionist.

As for shows that spun off into other nations, you can't forget the French L&O that Munch appeared on. Katherine Helmond appeared as Mona on the German version of Who's The Boss? as well, but I can't remember if it's in or not...seems like it should be.

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linked through a paper
(Anonymous)
2007-08-02 04:30 pm UTC (link)
24 should already be linked because, as i pointed out in a post several month ago, Jack Bauer can be seen reading the Los Angeles Tribune which is the paper "Lou Grant" worked at.

Also it turns out that Deadlline was not the first show about the New York Ledger, in 1951 there was a show called "Not for Publication" about the same paper, that would make this show, which debuted 6 months before I Love Lucy, the oldest on the grid

RAF

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Re: linked through a paper
[info]crossoverman
2007-08-02 09:26 pm UTC (link)
As you might have noticed, I'm a fair way behind in chronicling all those links - but thanks for the reminder.

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Dallas and the Wörthersee
[info]johnmunch
2007-08-03 09:12 pm UTC (link)
Although I am German I have never seen 'Ein Schloss am Wörthersee' which ran for three seasons and was a cross between 'Hotel' and a Heimatroman - never mind.

Anyway. Apparently there was an episode where this well-to-do and not quite hatrmonious Texan couple appeared. Right - JR and Sue Ellen of Dallas fame made a stop at the Schloss.

I don't know anything else about that episode. I saw the imdb entry and got it confirmed by somebody who remembered having seen it when it was aired.

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