| Ann Somerville ( @ 2007-08-16 09:08:00 |
Internalised Homophobia and slash writers (by davidpv)
[With
davidpv's permission, and at his request, I am posting his remarks originally made here as a fresh post for discussion]
Internalised Homophobia and slash writers by
davidpv
Ann asked me to move a discussion we were having over to allow others to participate. The subject was brought to the table by leebenoit about the possibility of internalized homophobia in slash writers.
First of all, I think many become defensive as soon as homophobia is tossed around. Let's be clear, we're not talking about individuals who jump gay men coming out of bars, or even politicians who seek to criminalize “sodomy.” What leebenoit mentioned was “internalized homophobia,” an entirely different animal.
Additionally, I have gotten heat by even pondering this question. “Slash writers can't have any internalized homophobia since they write about two men having sex!” Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but even gay men, out and closeted gay men, can have internalized homophobia! Why do you think gay teenagers commit suicide? Even myself, an openly gay man, with a partner of 13 years, a son, and another to be born next month, have to deal with internalized homophobia at times! If I have to struggle against it, female slash writers who were raised in a homophobic society are somehow immune?
We live in a society that has been homophobic for millennia. To expect individuals who are raised in such a culture not to be tainted by homophobia is naive. It was not until 2003 when the SCOTUS struck down laws criminalizing consensual sex between two adults of the same sex in the USA! For most of my life as a gay man I was a criminal in the eyes of the State of Texas. I still can't donate blood, nor marry my partner, nor even have any PDA's without fear of attack.
Last year, my family was in a small trading post in Utah talking with the owner and his wife. When the owner asked my partner whom our son (who I had been trying to corral for 30 minutes) belonged to, my partner said himself. He later apologized for not saying he was OUR son, because there were some NRA and other pro-gun posters on the walls. I was disappointed, but understood his action. In another world, my partner would not have hesitated to declare our relationship. Yes, he was acting out of a sense of safety, but also in response to his own internalized homophobia. How many straight parents would have even hesitated to declare that the child was theirs?
I shared this so that when I raised the question calling stories that focus on two gay-identified men in a relationship as “M/M,” rather than “gay fiction,” and posit that there may be some internalized homophobia involved in refusing to use the word gay, you would not assume that I am comparing you to the Klan.
Internalized homophobia (IH, hereafter) of slash writers: As it has been several years since I've read slash fanfiction, it will be hard for me to use specific examples found within this genre. However, as many current pro/semi-pro writers of original gay fiction (e-books especially) are former slash writers, by current exposure to their stories will be used if specific examples are required.
The trope that some writers use – straight man, but gay only for you – I think could be argued as a signal that the writer has some IH issues that are unresolved. As previously mentioned in this discussion, the possibility the character(s) is bisexual is an option, but never explored. Why does the writer refuse to have the character abandon both his heterosexuality and his accompanying heteronormative existence? Does the writer and the character believe there is something wrong with being identified as a homosexual? Is the writer just lazy and does not want to explore the character's latent homosexuality, or his early struggles with his sexuality? No matter what, if a writer continually uses this trop in their stories, one could argue that they do have issues with being comfortable with homosexuality.
Leebenoit wrote: “Reading these posts over the last couple of days has made me aware that writers of slash fanfiction may be channeling this new-old ideology (m/m sexuality and affinity as something anomalous, sick, emotionless, and criminal), I hope unwittingly, when authors use past m/f relationships as beards, demonize opposite-sex rivals, cast opposite-sex characters only as "best friends," present protagonists as "only gay for each other" and other pitfalls that have been mentioned.”
I will be the first to state that just because an author writes a story about an evil gay man, or a good gay man who ends up dead by the end of the story, such plots do not necessarily provide evidence that the author has IH issues. Even gay men have written stories that have such characters/plots. However, if the author continually uses stereotypes that have been perpetuated in their story, then I think one could take the author to task.
As previously mentioned, Ann McCaffrey's Pern novels acknowledge homosexual activity amongst Green, Brown, and to a certain extent, Blue dragon riders. Many gay men were ecstatic when they read these brief mentions of the existence of gay men in a mainstream fantasy world. However, McCaffrey claimed in an interview that science has proven that being the receptive partner in anal sex triggers a hormonal change that will make a previously heterosexual man become homosexual and effeminate. Like Yaoi writers, she has imposed heterosexual sexual conventions upon gay men – one must always be passive, while the other must always by active. In her world, while more 80% of the dragon riders are gay and/or bisexual men, they are banned from any leadership positions within the Weyr, as only 100% heterosexual women and men can assume lead the Weyr.
Given the fact that there are so many non-heterosexual dragon riders in her universe, she has yet to write one story about one gay man. Her view on homosexuality and her institutionalization of rape within the Weyr, has made many take a hard look at her writings.
Would anyone like to make any comment or offer other possible examples of IH that can be found in slash stories?
[Please add new comments on this topic to this post, rather than to the original, because they're getting buried. Thank you, David, for raising this.]
[With
Internalised Homophobia and slash writers by
Ann asked me to move a discussion we were having over to allow others to participate. The subject was brought to the table by leebenoit about the possibility of internalized homophobia in slash writers.
First of all, I think many become defensive as soon as homophobia is tossed around. Let's be clear, we're not talking about individuals who jump gay men coming out of bars, or even politicians who seek to criminalize “sodomy.” What leebenoit mentioned was “internalized homophobia,” an entirely different animal.
Additionally, I have gotten heat by even pondering this question. “Slash writers can't have any internalized homophobia since they write about two men having sex!” Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but even gay men, out and closeted gay men, can have internalized homophobia! Why do you think gay teenagers commit suicide? Even myself, an openly gay man, with a partner of 13 years, a son, and another to be born next month, have to deal with internalized homophobia at times! If I have to struggle against it, female slash writers who were raised in a homophobic society are somehow immune?
We live in a society that has been homophobic for millennia. To expect individuals who are raised in such a culture not to be tainted by homophobia is naive. It was not until 2003 when the SCOTUS struck down laws criminalizing consensual sex between two adults of the same sex in the USA! For most of my life as a gay man I was a criminal in the eyes of the State of Texas. I still can't donate blood, nor marry my partner, nor even have any PDA's without fear of attack.
Last year, my family was in a small trading post in Utah talking with the owner and his wife. When the owner asked my partner whom our son (who I had been trying to corral for 30 minutes) belonged to, my partner said himself. He later apologized for not saying he was OUR son, because there were some NRA and other pro-gun posters on the walls. I was disappointed, but understood his action. In another world, my partner would not have hesitated to declare our relationship. Yes, he was acting out of a sense of safety, but also in response to his own internalized homophobia. How many straight parents would have even hesitated to declare that the child was theirs?
I shared this so that when I raised the question calling stories that focus on two gay-identified men in a relationship as “M/M,” rather than “gay fiction,” and posit that there may be some internalized homophobia involved in refusing to use the word gay, you would not assume that I am comparing you to the Klan.
Internalized homophobia (IH, hereafter) of slash writers: As it has been several years since I've read slash fanfiction, it will be hard for me to use specific examples found within this genre. However, as many current pro/semi-pro writers of original gay fiction (e-books especially) are former slash writers, by current exposure to their stories will be used if specific examples are required.
The trope that some writers use – straight man, but gay only for you – I think could be argued as a signal that the writer has some IH issues that are unresolved. As previously mentioned in this discussion, the possibility the character(s) is bisexual is an option, but never explored. Why does the writer refuse to have the character abandon both his heterosexuality and his accompanying heteronormative existence? Does the writer and the character believe there is something wrong with being identified as a homosexual? Is the writer just lazy and does not want to explore the character's latent homosexuality, or his early struggles with his sexuality? No matter what, if a writer continually uses this trop in their stories, one could argue that they do have issues with being comfortable with homosexuality.
Leebenoit wrote: “Reading these posts over the last couple of days has made me aware that writers of slash fanfiction may be channeling this new-old ideology (m/m sexuality and affinity as something anomalous, sick, emotionless, and criminal), I hope unwittingly, when authors use past m/f relationships as beards, demonize opposite-sex rivals, cast opposite-sex characters only as "best friends," present protagonists as "only gay for each other" and other pitfalls that have been mentioned.”
I will be the first to state that just because an author writes a story about an evil gay man, or a good gay man who ends up dead by the end of the story, such plots do not necessarily provide evidence that the author has IH issues. Even gay men have written stories that have such characters/plots. However, if the author continually uses stereotypes that have been perpetuated in their story, then I think one could take the author to task.
As previously mentioned, Ann McCaffrey's Pern novels acknowledge homosexual activity amongst Green, Brown, and to a certain extent, Blue dragon riders. Many gay men were ecstatic when they read these brief mentions of the existence of gay men in a mainstream fantasy world. However, McCaffrey claimed in an interview that science has proven that being the receptive partner in anal sex triggers a hormonal change that will make a previously heterosexual man become homosexual and effeminate. Like Yaoi writers, she has imposed heterosexual sexual conventions upon gay men – one must always be passive, while the other must always by active. In her world, while more 80% of the dragon riders are gay and/or bisexual men, they are banned from any leadership positions within the Weyr, as only 100% heterosexual women and men can assume lead the Weyr.
Given the fact that there are so many non-heterosexual dragon riders in her universe, she has yet to write one story about one gay man. Her view on homosexuality and her institutionalization of rape within the Weyr, has made many take a hard look at her writings.
Would anyone like to make any comment or offer other possible examples of IH that can be found in slash stories?
[Please add new comments on this topic to this post, rather than to the original, because they're getting buried. Thank you, David, for raising this.]