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12 May 2008 @ 12:43 am
The BBC uses Racism to Justify Prejudice - Goff Revisited  
Y'all may recall that I wrote to the Beeb about the article on The Sunday Show in which they unjustly described all Goths as neonazi satanists. I got a reply yesterday.
We were sorry to read that you felt that the item on Goths was inaccurate. We raised your concerns with Amanda Hancox, Series Producer of Sunday Life. She asked us to pass on the following:

The feature on the Sunday programme was commissioned following a significant rise in the number of desecrated Christian graves in France. Our reporter was told by the Miviledes, the French Government’s anti cult task force, that they had identified a sub group within the Goth Community in France who they believe were responsible for these attacks. This sub group was found to have been heavily influenced by Satanism and Neo-Nazism.

The reporter interviewed a young man who described himself as a Neo Satanist Goth and his experiences were heard in the feature. The other people interviewed were all recognised experts in this field and one in particular is consulted regularly by the French Police on crimes with religious overtones. All the statistics were provided by the Ministry of Youth from their recent report into youth culture.

The presenter made it very clear in his introduction that the feature was about the Goth Community in France and about ‘some’ Goths who were influenced by Satanism. The programme was very careful not to link the story in anyway either to the Goth Community in Britain, which is a very different culture to that in France, or to the death of Sophie Lancaster. As all the interviewees were French and the feature was linked to a very specific event in France, we didn’t think it would be necessary to remind listeners throughout the feature that we were not talking about the Goth community in Britain.

Amanda Hancox
Series Producer
Sunday
So, let me see if I have got this straight... SOME of the desecration of graves is THOUGHT to be committed by NeoNazi, Satanist Goths, whom you now admit are a subset of the French Goth community (and not the whole of it, as you made out in the report) but you think it's OK to have broadcast the unbalanced, sensationalised report because it was about FRENCH Goths, and it's OK to present one-sided half truths and prejudice as fact if it's about French people?

Oh. Dear.
 
 
Current Mood: disappointed
 
 
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A contagious state of being: iGoth[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 09:36 am (UTC)
That's word for word the email I received.

I'm very tempted to reply with:

No, he didn't.



But silly SB. Of course hating the French is allowed!
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Vince Cable Fangirl: Innocent[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 09:43 am (UTC)
Sadly, you have to go back and fill the form in to reply; if you try to reply to the email you get a load of patronising bollocks designed to put you off replying. Which really worked on me... ;)

And no, he didn't.

Of course hating the French is allowed!

Well, yes. After all, you ARE talking to the person who made [info]fracindy's Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkey icon.
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A contagious state of being: full of shit[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 09:45 am (UTC)
I have to go to Belgium next week. Belgium, I find, is a lot like Canada: a really lovely country except for the French bits.

OK, I'm off to the form now.
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Vince Cable Fangirl[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 09:50 am (UTC)
Good good. I'd hate to be the only frothing loony who writes to them today.
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The Evil Atheist Your Mother Warned You About: Marvin[info]davegodfrey on May 12th, 2008 12:04 pm (UTC)
Its also pretty much what she said on Feedback. Like I said before I'm not sure we're talking about goths here, but black/death metal fans, which is where the Odinist Neo-Nazi's making the music fit into the equation.

Certainly everything I heard on the report indicated that's what they were talking about. I couldn't quite understand why the word "Goth" was used, nor if this part of the French Gothic community is based on Scandinavian Black Metal why the distinction wasn't clearly made.
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A contagious state of being[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 10:16 am (UTC)
This is in response to a form reply I received (T2008050400XXS06) when I expressed concern about the anti-'goth' prejudice exhibited on the radio last week.

Amanda Hancox tried to justify the programme's problematic nature by explaining it wasn't anti-goth, but anti-French. I fail to see how that makes it in any way OK.

The email I received seemed in general to be describing a different programme to the one I listened to.

"The reporter interviewed a young man who described himself as a Neo Satanist Goth and his experiences were heard in the feature. The other people interviewed were all recognised experts in this field and one in particular is consulted regularly by the French Police on crimes with religious overtones."
Except this young man - who identified himself as 'goth', was the only representative of that group as a whole. the goth subculture that was being attacked was conspicuously denied a voice.

"The presenter made it very clear in his introduction that the feature was about the Goth Community in France and about ‘some’ Goths who were influenced by Satanism."
No, he didn't.
The distinction between "'some' Goths' and just goths was not even attempted. If the producers genuinely assumed people would automatically understand that 'foreign' goths are different from 'our' goths, then there's clearly some dangerous presumptions being made in the BBC as a whole.

"The programme was very careful not to link the story in anyway either to the Goth Community in Britain, which is a very different culture to that in France, or to the death of Sophie Lancaster."
Not explicitly making the connection is not the same as making the distinction. No such distinction between British goths and French goths were made, and the listeners were led to draw their own conclusions. Similarly, there was no attempt made to distinguish "Neo Nazi Satanist goths" from the rest of the community.

"As all the interviewees were French and the feature was linked to a very specific event in France, we didn’t think it would be necessary to remind listeners throughout the feature that we were not talking about the Goth community in Britain."
Despite the fact that it's been shown time and time again that conflicts abroad are very easily converted into race/religion or similiarly motivated violent attacks in Britain.

Please ask Ms Hancox to try harder in future.
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Vince Cable Fangirl: Moods - Bravo George - Happy[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 10:20 am (UTC)
* applause *
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A contagious state of being: full of shit[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 10:24 am (UTC)
I find i get a little bit more verbose when I'm not allowed to use phrases like:

Unbiased journalism: UR DOIN IT RONG
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Vince Cable Fangirl[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 10:26 am (UTC)
Well, lets see if any of it goes in.
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A contagious state of being: full of shit[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 10:29 am (UTC)
Does this mean I'm not allowed to also write to complain about Jonathan Ross giving a forum to a sex-abuse apologist on Friday night without actually asking hinm to account for his actions?

ETA: I'm having a lot of difficulty telling you from Write these days. Don't ask why.

Edited at 2008-05-12 10:31 am (UTC)
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Vince Cable Fangirl: Moods - Scared[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 10:32 am (UTC)
Ooooh no, feel free to complain about that too... I avoid Jonathan Ross like the plague, so I don't know what you're on about, though.

ETA: eurgh. Is that really what happened?

Edited at 2008-05-12 10:34 am (UTC)
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A contagious state of being: full of shit[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 10:37 am (UTC)
Yep. I watched it on Virgin On Demand for as long as I could stand before turning it off.

TBH, the sexism and homophobia before Vegas even came on was nearly enough to make me turn off on their own.

This icon is getting a work out.

Edited at 2008-05-12 10:38 am (UTC)
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Vince Cable Fangirl: Political - FU[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 10:45 am (UTC)
This is why I avoid Jonathan Ross like the plague...
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A contagious state of being: wtf[info]innerbrat on May 12th, 2008 10:49 am (UTC)
I think I should watch it more often and complain every single time.
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Paul Alexander Mudie[info]pmoodie on May 12th, 2008 10:37 am (UTC)
Firts Rule of Journalism: Never let the fects get in the way of a good story.
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Paul Alexander Mudie: doof[info]pmoodie on May 12th, 2008 10:41 am (UTC)
Secone Rule: Learn to type!
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Paul Alexander Mudie: doof[info]pmoodie on May 12th, 2008 10:42 am (UTC)
Third Rule: See second rule! LOL
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Vince Cable Fangirl: Music - Nick Cave/PJ Harvey[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 10:44 am (UTC)
I love you!
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Paul Alexander Mudie: shat love[info]pmoodie on May 12th, 2008 11:34 am (UTC)
I think you're confusing love with pity, but I'll take the smooches anyway! LOL
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Ozzy: Blofeld[info]karohemd on May 12th, 2008 11:06 am (UTC)
Now that's special.
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Henry Ford's No. 1 Fangirl[info]puddingcat on May 12th, 2008 11:33 am (UTC)
So, what *did* you write as a reply?
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Vince Cable Fangirl[info]snapesbabe on May 12th, 2008 11:38 am (UTC)
I C&Ped my reaction from here, and added a bit about being very disappointed in the passive-aggressive faux apology I had received to my previous complaint.
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