Twitterpatted Tink ([info]vidmaker_19) wrote in [info]thequestionclub,
@ 2005-12-01 23:41:00
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I read recently in a school magazine that there is a debate that keeps getting hotter and hotter. It's on the evloution issue. Here's the thing: the debate is whether to teach evolution solely, not at all, or teach both evolution and Intellegent Design. Both the evolution theory and intellegent design have logic, evidence, and many supporters. Neither can be fully proven or disproven. So here's the question:

In your opinion, should they teach evolution solely, evolution and intellegent design, or none of the above?


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[info]shippo
2005-12-02 07:39 am UTC (link)
ID has no place in the science classroom, since ID is not science.

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[info]sdragon
2005-12-02 07:40 am UTC (link)
Science should be taught in Science class, and Philosophy should be taught in Philosophy class.

Evolution is Science; therefore it should be taught in Science class.

Intelligent Design is not Science (it is normative, not naturalistic), therefore it should not be taught in a Science class. If they want to teach it in some other class, go right ahead, along with all the other creation mythologies and philosophies (like Lamarckism).

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[info]causticangel
2005-12-02 08:54 am UTC (link)
*applauds*

I was going to type out what I think, but this is it and much better phrased than I'd manage.

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(no subject) - [info]sdragon, 2005-12-02 08:56 am UTC (Expand)

[info]really_living
2005-12-02 09:54 pm UTC (link)
Second-ed!

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[info]testywaters
2005-12-02 07:42 am UTC (link)
I think evolution is great to teach in science and intelligent design is nice to bring up in philosophy. Course philosophy isn't necessarily an option for study like science. So maybe the solution would be making sure students had an intro to philosophy course in their regular curriculum.

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[info]pggmilltn
2005-12-02 07:44 am UTC (link)
The intelligent design issue has logic and evidence in the sense that it's evidence is based on the premise that the definition of science is wrong with it's logic being based on the premise that scientific logic does not provide acceptable explanations for how things came to be.

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[info]kitsu
2005-12-02 07:51 am UTC (link)
Your comment just broke my brain. I hope you're happy.

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(no subject) - [info]pggmilltn, 2005-12-02 08:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-02 08:08 am UTC (Expand)

[info]itskilltime
2005-12-02 07:57 am UTC (link)
evolution soley.

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[info]samchuck
2005-12-02 07:57 am UTC (link)
I disagree with your premises. ID does not have evidence. It essentially relies on the lack of complete evidence for evolution in very specific cases and metaphysical assumptions. Furthermore, evolution is falsifiable--there are certain things that if they were true could disprove evolution. ID can't be falsified and thus fails a very basic scientific test. Also, ID has supporters in the general public, but hardly any supporters among scientists. The vast majority of scientists ( 95%) accept evolution.

So Evolution only, obviously

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[info]windritual
2005-12-02 08:01 am UTC (link)
I think they should teach both or nothing and it should be optional to the students. I don't think they should really teach it to anyone below high school either since kids are so impressionable.

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[info]vidmaker_19
2005-12-02 08:09 am UTC (link)
I like your answer.

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(no subject) - [info]sdragon, 2005-12-02 08:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-02 08:42 am UTC (Expand)

[info]obfuscate
2005-12-02 01:06 pm UTC (link)
You think it should be optional? You think learning about the very basics of how everyone, ever, came to be should be optional? Well, darnit. I think Shakespeare should be optional. And Newton's laws of physics. And the Revolutionary War. Come to think of it, why don't we let fourteen year olds opt in or out of their whole damn education while we're at it?

And I definitely do not agree that they should be taught simultaneously. ID warrants a passing mention as the instructor moves on to the more plausible, scientifically supported theory of evolution. I can't think of a single class I took in high school where intelligent design would have qualified as an appropriate topic of study.

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[info]isaiah_53_5
2005-12-02 08:19 am UTC (link)
For me, there's far too much evidence in support of intellegent design. I think that they should either teach it as an option to evolution or teach none of it at all. Evolution is a belief, not a fact. The way I see it, there's much more logic and evidence behind intellegent design (to bluntly put it out there, God) than there will ever be for evolution.

I know that someone said above that intellegent design isn't really science, but I believe it was Sir Issac Newton that said "Without God, there would be no science."

My dad points out that maybe evolution and intellegent design are one in the same. He thinks that evolution is intellegent design.

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[info]sdragon
2005-12-02 08:24 am UTC (link)
My dad points out that maybe evolution and intellegent design are one in the same. He thinks that evolution is intellegent design.

That's a great idea, but it is a philosophical idea, and one that should be explored in a social sciences class. There are many scientists who are religious and each has their own way of reconciling religious beliefs with scientific practice. It doesn't mean that they inject religion into the lab, but that they have reached a philosophical understanding about how their deity interacts with the world through scientific phenomena.

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(no subject) - [info]onceuponatime13, 2005-12-02 01:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-03 07:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-03 11:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-05 03:49 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-11 04:08 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-13 01:36 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-13 02:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2005-12-13 06:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-20 10:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-21 01:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-21 06:41 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-20 10:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]naeko, 2005-12-02 03:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-03 07:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]naeko, 2005-12-04 01:29 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-05 04:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2005-12-13 06:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-20 10:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2005-12-22 07:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2006-01-02 11:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-01-03 06:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2006-01-06 07:09 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-01-06 11:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2006-01-08 08:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-01-08 09:03 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2006-01-09 12:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-01-09 06:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2006-01-09 08:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-01-10 07:36 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fourcorners, 2006-01-10 07:04 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2006-01-10 09:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-13 01:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fourcorners, 2006-01-10 06:55 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]acatsoclever
2005-12-02 08:20 am UTC (link)
You may also be interested to read the responses to every other identical post.

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[info]vidmaker_19
2005-12-02 08:45 am UTC (link)
Sorry, still new here and haven't looked around much. Forgive the repeat question. ;)

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(no subject) - [info]acatsoclever, 2005-12-02 09:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]naeko, 2005-12-02 03:55 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]acatsoclever, 2005-12-03 12:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]acatsoclever, 2005-12-03 02:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]naeko, 2005-12-03 02:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]acatsoclever, 2005-12-03 02:39 am UTC (Expand)

[info]phoennyx
2005-12-02 09:10 am UTC (link)
Religious convictions or lack thereof aside - I would say both, personally. I think it's best to present all sides of an issue, and given the fact that they are both 'theories', it makes sense to me to teach the shortcomings and good points of both.

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[info]vidmaker_19
2005-12-03 08:01 pm UTC (link)
That's a good idea to teach both. I'd be for that if they present both as possibilities rather than point A (whichever one it may be) is how it happened but some people think point B is how it is. Either that or withdraw both from the curriculum.

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[info]madscience
2005-12-02 10:38 am UTC (link)
ID does NOT have evidence.

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[info]onceuponatime13
2005-12-02 01:51 pm UTC (link)
I agree. And the supporters are, generally, a bunch of old, catholic men saying "Grumble ... what's in the Bible is law. If they say God created the world, then he did. And that's the end." Yeah ... But where's your proof, old man?!

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(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-02 02:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-03 08:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-03 11:08 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-13 01:29 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-13 02:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-21 06:48 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-21 01:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-22 01:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-22 01:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-22 01:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-22 01:36 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-22 01:41 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-22 01:53 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]vidmaker_19, 2005-12-22 02:27 am UTC (Expand)

[info]onceuponatime13
2005-12-02 01:49 pm UTC (link)
Ehh ... I wouldn't call any of the information they have on Intelligent Design proof. This was actually a debate that was going to take place in my Exploring Regligion class. I believe, along with my groupd, that we were going to argues to only teach Evolution in school. It's more logical and absed in fact, where Intelligent Design has far too much to do with Religion and a belief in something you can't see.

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[info]leastlikely
2005-12-02 02:07 pm UTC (link)
If people want to believe Intelligent Design, that's fine. I don't believe it, but I don't care if other people do.

However, it is NOT science and therefore has no business being taught in a science classroom. The point of science class is not to offer different perspectives on matters.. it is to teach science.

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[info]katipoo
2005-12-02 03:28 pm UTC (link)
Evolution and Intelligent Design are both scientific theories. Evolution has like 700,000 times more information backing it up.

Therefore, they both should be taught, but in a ratio dependant on the amount of scientific evidence to prove each theory. 1 hr on ID should suffice- just to acknowledge that some people don't buy evolution, and they think that something, not necessarily a godlike figure, put life on the Earth. After that, you can get back to diagramming plant and animal cells.

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[info]dawgdays
2005-12-02 05:54 pm UTC (link)
Evolution is a theory, a hypothesis supported by evidence.

Intelligent Design is, at this point, a hypothesis, unsupported by evidence.

In the recent trial in Dover, PA, Michael Behe, one of the primary supporters of ID, who happens to be a professor of biochemistry, was forced to admit the definition he uses of "scientific theory" (which does not agree with the definition that that the National Academy of Sciences uses), that allows him to state that ID is a scientific theory, would also admit astrology as a scientific theory. Sounds like he's playing fast and loose with what he considers to be "science".

(If you want to read that part of the trial transcript, go to http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dover/day11pm.html#day11pm132 and search for the first occurence of "academy".)

Evolution, as scientific theory, is suitable for a science class. ID and scientific method are suitable topics for discussion in philosophy class.

I believe in God, but I don't believe in ID. Not yet, at any rate.

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[info]alongtheway
2005-12-02 08:18 pm UTC (link)
I would fully support intelligent design being taught in schools if I was also allowed to submit my papers written in tongues.

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[info]berry_cupcake
2005-12-02 08:32 pm UTC (link)
I think that teaching Intelligent Design at a high school would be silly. You can't test Intelligent Design to see if it's true, so it's not a science. If they want to teach ID at a high school they should market it as something else, and make it optional.

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[info]isaiah_53_5
2005-12-03 07:47 pm UTC (link)
You can really test evolution either.

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(no subject) - [info]madscience, 2005-12-03 11:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]isaiah_53_5, 2005-12-05 03:46 am UTC (Expand)

[info]fettered_free
2005-12-02 09:35 pm UTC (link)
Evolution should be taught in science class, and only evolution. ID is not supported by science, or the scientific method, and should be discussed in a philosophy or religious class.

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[info]fourcorners
2005-12-05 09:16 am UTC (link)
ID isn't a science, braniac. Nothing logical about it, and its assaults on evolution are misinformed or irrelevant at best

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[info]vidmaker_19
2005-12-13 01:40 am UTC (link)
ID has more logic than the big bang theory. Tons more.

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(no subject) - [info]fourcorners, 2005-12-13 02:23 am UTC (Expand)

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