toto_darling ([info]toto_darling) wrote in [info]theoffice_us,
@ 2008-03-14 16:10:00
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confusion to the max.
Okay, so I got done with my Geometry quiz early today, so I settled back down in my seat to watch some Office on my ipod :)
I picked Season 2, The Secret

So I was watching it today, & I noticed something HUGE!
...okay, so not huge-huge, bit still. Something weird.



This is taken from officequotes.net to give you the dialogue:


Season 2, "The Secret":
Jim: Hey oh, listen, um, I told Michael on the booze cruise. It's so stupid. Um, I told Michael that I had had a crush on you when you first started here.
Pam: Oh.


Okay, sounds great, right?


So look here:

Season 4, "Launch Party"
Jim: Do you remember what you said to me on my first day of work, just before you walked me over to my desk?
Pam: Yeah, enjoy this moment, because you're never going to go back to this time before you met your desk mate Dwight.


So...who really started first?

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[info]ecctv
2008-03-14 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Its like Lost. Time travel

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[info]toto_darling
2008-03-14 08:20 pm UTC (link)
hha, might as well be.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]823freckles
2008-03-14 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Just another idea to add to the LOST/Office crossover I have in the works! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]ecctv, 2008-03-14 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]823freckles, 2008-03-14 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecctv, 2008-03-14 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]823freckles, 2008-03-14 08:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecctv, 2008-03-14 08:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]planet_janet, 2008-03-15 04:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bebitched, 2008-03-15 09:08 pm UTC

[info]cressesgirl
2008-03-14 08:31 pm UTC (link)
whoa, I saw your name and got confused and thought this was posted on ONTD. You're freakin me out, man.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]snowfall36, 2008-03-15 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marmar627, 2008-03-15 03:34 am UTC

[info]mel_l
2008-03-15 02:33 am UTC (link)
ecctv, it's weird how I see you in the office fandom, outside of the Conan community! Just curious, because you seem omnipresent, how many fandoms do you span across? XD

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]ecctv, 2008-03-15 02:34 am UTC

[info]58468_0
2008-03-14 08:22 pm UTC (link)
LOL~~~ Interesting! I wondered that in the back of my mind but rarely questioned it.

Also funny is on Women's Appreciation when Ryan is telling Jim that he sent an email to Karen...and then in Dunder Mifflin Infinity Ryan tells Kelly that he could have had a chance with Karen but didn't. XDDDD

Maybe not related to consistency issues but I always cracked up.

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[info]15north
2008-03-14 09:12 pm UTC (link)
I think Ryan was just lying when he told Kelly that. As much as I love him (and Kelly), I think he was lying about that to make himself look good and so she wouldn't embarrass him in the office and all. I would have loved if it had been Karen who had sent the email, though. It could, of course, be inconsistency, but I think he was just lying.

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(no subject) - [info]58468_0, 2008-03-14 09:12 pm UTC

[info]823freckles
2008-03-14 08:22 pm UTC (link)
EXACTLY. I've always had a problem with that. I never did know who started first. I used to think it was Pam...but I've heard others say Jim...

ANYONE know for reals???

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[info]novelized
2008-03-14 08:23 pm UTC (link)
yep, i noticed that too. i'm sure the writers were going ooops.

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[info]fleur32_23
2008-03-14 08:25 pm UTC (link)
Here's Greg Daniels from the convention talking about this issue (I think it's in the middle).

I don't think he knows either :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdD9BE85NAc

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[info]fleur32_23
2008-03-17 09:11 pm UTC (link)
I lied. It's not in the middle. It's at 6:22. He says Pam was first.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]littlebitocd
2008-03-14 08:30 pm UTC (link)
There's another part later in that episode where Michael is talking to Pam and SHE says, "Jim told me that he had a crush on me when HE first started". So you've got that conflict right in the single episode.

But there's a deleted scene from The Fire where Jim mentions that he used to sit by Toby until Michael separated them for talking too much. And Pam is surprised to learn this--which she wouldn't be if she was there on his first day.

I think somebody called the writers out on this at the convention in Scranton. See if you can find the videos. I think Greg Daniels says something about knowing they've said it both ways, but to go ahead and consider Pam to have started first.

But I want it to be Jim.

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[info]toryncat
2008-03-14 08:45 pm UTC (link)
"I think somebody called the writers out on this at the convention in Scranton."

In episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

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(no subject) - [info]823freckles, 2008-03-14 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bufffy6, 2008-03-14 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toryncat, 2008-03-15 03:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]azuree, 2008-03-18 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cphillips1892, 2008-03-14 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marmar627, 2008-03-15 03:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cphillips1892, 2008-03-16 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thesecondfloor, 2008-03-15 02:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlebitocd, 2008-03-15 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aggiegurl22, 2008-03-16 06:57 am UTC

[info]tunaeverynight
2008-03-14 08:51 pm UTC (link)
There's also a deleted scene (I believe it's for "The Carpet"... but I can't be positive), where Jim talks about his worst/best first date. He mentions that on his first day, he went out to lunch with a girl, where he found out that she was engaged (hence, his best first date was really his worst). He's obviously talking about Pam, which would also suggest she was there first.

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[info]crystal211
2008-03-15 01:49 am UTC (link)
Yup, I was going to point that out. Very right.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]semby, 2008-03-15 07:45 pm UTC

[info]ironedpolyester
2008-03-14 08:55 pm UTC (link)
I always thought that Pam started first. But maybe it was b/c of the worst first date deleted scene from the client. And the canon of those is sort of debated (does not want to reopen deleted scene Karen flyer debate from last year again).

I just like the idea of Pam working there beforehand, don't know why.

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[info]myprettycabinet
2008-03-14 09:40 pm UTC (link)
What happened with the Karen flyer debate??? I joined only recently!

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(no subject) - [info]ironedpolyester, 2008-03-14 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ironedpolyester, 2008-03-14 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crystal211, 2008-03-15 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ironedpolyester, 2008-03-15 02:35 am UTC

[info]opheliandreams
2008-03-14 09:43 pm UTC (link)
Jim started first.

That line exactly is the reason why I hate LP and that rooftop scene. Screwed up continuity.

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[info]snowfall36
2008-03-15 01:20 am UTC (link)
I maybe stupid for asking this, and when you tell me I'll probably hit my forehead and go "Oh, of course!"

But LP?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]snowfall36, 2008-03-15 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]opheliandreams, 2008-03-15 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]falulatonks, 2008-03-15 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thisiamdenied, 2008-03-15 05:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puppy_ciao, 2008-03-15 11:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]opheliandreams, 2008-03-15 01:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puppy_ciao, 2008-03-15 02:28 pm UTC

[info]presley06
2008-03-14 10:18 pm UTC (link)
I know goofs are bound to happen but for some reason this one really bothers me. I like the thought of Jim starting first.

Edited at 2008-03-14 10:18 pm UTC

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[info]superstar5622
2008-03-14 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Before this season I always thought Jim was there first. I still like that idea but didn't someone ask GD once and he said it was supposed to be Pam and they messed up in S2? I can't remember.

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[info]achtungkate
2008-03-14 11:28 pm UTC (link)
Is it wrong that I noticed that the first time I saw 'Launch Party'?

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[info]roryappletarts
2008-03-15 12:39 am UTC (link)
Haha, I never noticed that. It is very confusing now.

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[info]shlupquack
2008-03-15 01:28 am UTC (link)
I noticed these "errors" too, but I just figure it makes the show seem more real... Sometimes people mis-speak in reality, right? So that's what I'm going with on this one. Especially since Jim was clearly nervous when he said it.

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[info]thisiamdenied
2008-03-15 05:18 am UTC (link)
Up until Launch Party, I had always thought Jim started first, so I was unreasonably saddened to learn that it was Pam who actually started at DM first. I think it's just because I had this little image in my head of timid Pam sneaking into the Office and Michael showing her around in his Michaelish ways, and then Jim coming up to reception and leaning against it for the first time and saying something comical and putting her at ease and yes I'm shutting up. :|

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[info]staplerinjello
2008-03-16 10:03 am UTC (link)
I had that same image. Or at least one where Jim says something nice/funny to a nervous Pam and makes her laugh. *sigh*

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(no subject) - [info]thisiamdenied, 2008-03-17 12:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]staplerinjello, 2008-03-17 05:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thisiamdenied, 2008-03-17 06:09 pm UTC

[info]yourmanuscript
2008-03-15 07:50 am UTC (link)
Oh my God, every time I watch that episode (is it sad that I watch these episodes so often?) I always ask my sister about who started first, thinking that she'll have all the answers.

I'd like to think that Pam started working at Dunder Mifflin first. I don't even know why!

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[info]st_montmorency
2008-03-15 12:53 pm UTC (link)
Actually, I'm kinda surprised that people are STILL talking about this
This whole who-started-working-first thing has been talked over and over and OVER..!! IMO, it's just one of the common mistakes with timeline which all the writers make at one point or another. and believe me, this is not the first time they messed up with timeline. Just think about Meredith's birthday problem in season 4. That poor lady has two different birthdays!

Anyhoo, I do think that Pam started first but also think that there is no correct answer on this problem. It's just one of the things that you believe what you want to believe..

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[info]dentrohydro
2008-03-15 06:29 pm UTC (link)
I always thought Jim started first based on that deleted scene in "The Fire;" however everything got kind of screwy in "The Secret" when it is implied in one scene that Jim started first and in another when it is indicated Pam started first. I buy that Pam started first now that Greg Daniels has emphasized that, so I'm just gonna roll with the flow. It really isn't that big of a deal in the scheme of things. I like to think what someone mentioned before that Jim was just so nervous talking top Pam in "The Secret" that he just confused his words a bit.

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[info]semby
2008-03-15 07:51 pm UTC (link)
I've been questioning this for ages. They obviously screwed it up before (as pointed out, in "The Secret" in one scene Jim says "when you first started" and later on Pam says "when he first started"), and I feel like it had been established that Jim had been there a LONG time (the old Jim/Dwight picture from Traveling Salesmen that looked like it was taken in the freaking 80s or something! Or at least when Jim was like 22/23), and that Pam and Jim had only known each other a few years before the show started... which would indicate that she started more recently if he's been there so long. Plus the deleted scene in The Fire about him previously sitting next to Toby. I think after Launch Party it's definitely established that Pam started first, but it only works if you ignore prior canon evidence.

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[info]aggiegurl22
2008-03-16 07:23 am UTC (link)
Ok, this is how I've rationalized. Note: regard Pam's line to Michael in The Secret as nervousness and mispeaking. My theory on why I think Jim started first.

Let me set the scene: Post-The Job and remember, Jim never really "came back" from Stamford (as confessed in Beach Games).

Pam comes out of the conference room and Jim is leaning on her desk. Jim says, "I'm back for good this time." Pam smiles radiantly, "I'm glad." Jim looks around, "God, I'm having trouble remembering anything on that side of the room (points to side opposite of Pam's desk)...would you mind showing me to my desk?" Pam says, jokingly, "Lucky you for being able to put it out of your mind." Jim laughs. Pam says, seriously, "Enjoy this moment, because you're never going to go back to this time before you met your desk mate Dwight." Jim takes a deep breath, mockingly steadying himself, "Show me the way, Beesly."

So, my theory is that Jim and Pam want to start fresh, hence the "first time you knew that you liked me" game. Yes, Pam knows that Jim loved her once upon a time (maybe she thinks he still does), but until they both come out and say it, they're stuck with "like". Which isn't a bad thing since they missed out on all of that cutesy beginning of the relationship stuff with Roy in the way (sorry, that sounds harsh) and barriers put up. I'm waiting till that moment when they reach "I love you." How sweet it will be!!

Fact: I am a dork.
Fact: I am supposed to be writing a research paper.
Announcement: Take what you want from this theory. At least it helps me sleep at night. ;)

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[info]aggiegurl22
2008-03-16 07:28 am UTC (link)
Oh, and Jim and Pam jokingly call the day Jim "came back" as his first day. When Jim came back, that was the first time Pam admitted to herself that she liked Jim and that it was ok to do so. But we all know that their moment-of-liking game is ridiculous since they lurrrrrrrrve each other!! ;)

I'm done now...I promise.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]girlyouknew, 2008-03-17 01:13 am UTC
Noticed this too
(Anonymous)
2008-05-13 06:04 pm UTC (link)
I think Jim has more points for his starting after Pam. Isn't there a deleted scene where he mentions his worst first date was on his first day of work? And from the way he talked about it, saying it turned out she was in love with someone else, it was obvious he was talking about Pam.
I also prefer imagining Young Jim making friends with Pam and going to her for help getting used to Michael and everyone xD

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