Cat Murphy ([info]chaoscat) wrote in [info]tacoma,
@ 2005-10-29 12:20:00
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Entry tags:for-sale

Wolfdog puppies
I'm posting this for a friend, he has 8 wolfdog puppies for sale, all mid-content Siberian Husky/Timber wolf/Red wolf mix. They're 8 weeks old, all of them have great temperaments around people, other dogs, and cats.

Females: one black & tan with brown eyes ($400), one black & tan with odd colored eyes ($400), one wild-type (brown with brown eyes) ($450), and one red with brown eyes ($350).

Males: one husky-type with blue eyes ($500), one black & gray with blue eyes ($400), and one brown and white with odd colored eyes ($450).

There's also one female up for adoption only-she's black and gray with odd colored eyes, but she has a jaw problem and adopter MUST sign a contract stating they will spay her as soon as she is ready and will NOT breed her. She's a sweet pup, but the jaw will require surgery. Her adoption fee is $125-that goes to cover her vet visits and her first innoculations.

These pups will NOT be sold to anyone in King county as it is against the law to own them there. They will also not be sold to anyone living in an apartment-these dogs need a very large yard (at least 3/4 acre) to roam.

Anyone with questions can call him at 360-556-4143.


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[info]killtacoma
2005-11-04 06:10 am UTC (link)
i think its shitty of people to breed and sell animals for profit when hundreds are being euthenized at local humane societies. way to go asshole!
im especially disgusted at the pricing for markings. seriously, fuck you.

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[info]chaoscat
2005-11-04 06:33 am UTC (link)
Little girl, they aren't my dogs. If you knew how to read, you'd know that. Go pop your pills and have fun with your girlie-friends, and when you grow up, then we'll talk.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-04 10:55 am UTC (link)
selfish breeders and buyers of animals need to grow up.

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[info]chaoscat
2005-11-04 04:22 pm UTC (link)
You know it's funny. I breed snakes and exotic reptiles as a hobby, and all my animals are captive-bred. I support captive-breeding of animals losing their habitat because of people like you who are uneducated and uncaring.

Just about every single snake, gecko, or lizard I keep is a many generations captive-bred endangered or threatened species. I do keep one wild-caught snake, and that is only because his species is NOT being currently bred and he was legally imported and taken care of during the import process.

Why don't you stop targeting the breeders and buyers and start targeting the people destroying habitat for industry? Go do something to help the animals you "want to save" - if habitat wasn't being destroyed, people wouldn't have any reason to keep "wild" animals.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:53 am UTC (link)
I support captive-breeding of animals losing their habitat because of people like you who are uneducated and uncaring.
how am I uneducated and uncaring? I've worked for issues of environmentalism for several years.

and what do you do with your captive-breed animals? do you rehabilitate and release them into the wild to replenish the populations?

Why don't you stop targeting the breeders and buyers and start targeting the people destroying habitat for industry?
well, you know, people kill and steal wild animals from sensitive ecological regions such as the rainforest to breed and/or SELL to rich buyers in countries like the US. so it's funny that you tell me to stop targeting the breeders and buyers, and target the people destroying habitat for industry, when the breeders and buyers are destroying habitat for industry.

by the way, since we're on the topic of targeting the people destroying habitat for industry, were you at the weyerhaeuser protest?

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[info]chaoscat
2005-11-09 06:16 am UTC (link)
Then why are you here harassing people rather than out there protecting habitat?

I captive-breed several generations of captive-bred reptiles. Many of my snakes come from lines of which the original founders were legally removed from the wild by scientists doing study. Some lines are from areas where habitats are no longer in existance thanks to ignorant people who want a "pretty place to live."

If you want to target someone who illegally removes animals from the wild-look at those who import millions of ball pythons and iguanas each year. Both species are easily bred in captivity, why do we need to import them?

Have you visited the habitat where endangered species like Eastern Indigos (Drymarchon corais couperi) and the Hog Island boa constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator) somewhat thrive? Neither species is endangered due to overcollection, they are endangered due to habitat destruction.

I keep both species, captive-bred, in my collection. I like to think that maybe I'll have some of the last available so that people know what used to be there when ignorant people like you wipe them out of their natural habitat.

I should also add from a medical point of view-captive breeding species and then releasing them is NOT a good idea, nor is keeping a wild caught animal for any amount of time and re-relasing it due to the many diseases such an animal can pick up in captivity. Releasing such diseases into a wild population is almost sure to completely destroy what little of the species is left.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 08:12 am UTC (link)
Then why are you here harassing people rather than out there protecting habitat?
I can actively protect habitat at the same time as try to raise awareness about protecting habitat by not stealing and breeding wild animals. so I am protecting habitat in both ways.

I like to think that maybe I'll have some of the last available so that people know what used to be there when ignorant people like you wipe them out of their natural habitat.
what good will animals cooped up in your personal cages do when they are gone from the wild? does it really benefit them if they exist only to have people gawk at them>

again, explain how I am an ignorant person who is responsible for wiping species out of their natural habitat? Before, you claimed that I was responsible for this, yet I refuted your claims and showed that I proactively work for the environment, much more than most people do.

again, you attack me with this same claim despite my refutation. that doesn't make sense. maybe you didn't the small list of examples of the environmental protection work that I do. I don't see how you can attack me as hurting the environment when you do nothing to help and I do a lot to save the environment.

again, you may be keeping and breeding animals that will go extinct in the wild. and perhaps you are right that they cannot be reintroduced (although this seems to happen successfully with various species). but what good does it do the environment, what good does it do both the species and the individual animals that you keep in a cage? if they are gone from the wild, people may be able to see the animals that have been lost, but what good does that do the animals? if they can't live in the wild like they were born to, they're probably better off not existing than living their lives in captivity. a captive life is a poor substitute for a natural life.

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(Anonymous)
2005-11-05 07:49 am UTC (link)
if you knew how to read you would know that im not a girl. you research very poorly. you read an instance that happened over a year and deduced that i am a pill popper, way to go! i never said they were your dogs. you posted for your friend on a public forum and having an opinion i decided to share it even when you deleted it the first time. would it have been more appropiate for me to have began with TELL YOUR FRIEND: ?

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[info]damashita
2005-11-04 09:33 am UTC (link)
This from a girl who admits she steals from the grocery store by checking out her own groceries and intentionally entering cheap product codes instead of the codes for what she bought? Stupid cow... this raises the prices for everyone... You so worried about transactions between informed adults - maybe you should quit the lying and stealing you do before you cast stones about other people's lives.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-04 10:58 am UTC (link)
i support stealing from corporations. i consider it my duty to do so. for one, many corporate grocery stores engage in unethical practices, so we should do what we can to stop them, one way being hurting them financially. for two, we should not have to pay for food. the corporations and the capitalists who charge for food are stealing from us, the people. by stealing from them, we are taking back what is ours.

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[info]chaoscat
2005-11-04 04:15 pm UTC (link)
wow... you really need to grow up and see who you're actually hurting. Take an Economics class, moron... you're hurting the people those organizations hire and who they donate to. I know when I used to work for a big corporation, all the employees there lost their xmas bonus when some jackass decided it would be cool to steal. For someone who was working the base minimum wage, I and everyone else depended on that bonus.

Thanks for giving me someone to blame.. I bet it was you!

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:28 am UTC (link)
I disagree with you. Big corporations are rich, correct? That's why they are big. Corporations have been raking in bigger and bigger profits every year, despite their employees losing pay and benefits.

if someone stole from a corporation (I can't imagine a big corporation taking bonuses because one person stole something) and the employees lose their benefits, it is just an excuse for the corporations to cut costs and thus make bigger profits.

the government and corporations, the people in charge, who depend on the cheap, backbreaking labour of poor and middle class people alike for their big houses and fancy cars, have pitted us, the people, against one another. they want us to blame one another rather than the corporation, or further, the whole system. you mentioned that you and other workers were making the bare minimum wage and depended on a measly bonus. that sucks! but that's what corporations do, that's how they make the record profits they that have been increasing each year.

maybe the person who stole was just trying to survive. maybe it was someone who just likes to steal, which I don't necessary condone. maybe it was someone fighting for justice.

I don't know which it was, but let's take the example of someone who steals to surive, or steals to bring down a corporation. the person who steals and the workers making crappy wages are fighting for justice against a selfish corporation. work together instead of blame the person who steals.

that is how the corporations and governments stay in power: by getting us to blame each other, fight each other, even kill each other in some cases, instead of uniting and fighting the common enemy. this is how colonial governments work, and this is how corporations work.

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[info]damashita
2005-11-04 04:15 pm UTC (link)
Tell that to the farmers who only get pennies for the dollars we spend. Stealing doesn't give give anyone more money or resources, it just adds to end prices for everyone and can even reduce money for farmers (and if you think they don't deserve a hell of a lot more than they get, you are heartless as well as stupid).

As for being our duty to steal... well, that tells me you don't have a little thing called personal honor. If it is a choice between starving and eating, i can see taking what you NEED to live. But stealing just so you can get fancier food or stuff you want w/o compensating the people who do the work, then you are pond scum. i am not talking about the big corporations, but the people who really matter... the farmers, the laborers who work their asses off so you can sit in your homes, type on your computers, and steal the food that they have sweat and bled to bring to you.

i don't know i agree that food should be free to everyone who wants it... maybe core foods like grains, veggies, beans - but even then the farmers and workers need to be compensated for their work... so if you want free food, get your ass down to a farm and pick your own food. Don't steal from the grocery stores where you make it more expensive for everyone who honors those who WORK for the food that we buy.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:42 am UTC (link)
Tell that to the farmers who only get pennies for the dollars we spend.
and who pays the farmers crappy wages? the corporations. I fully support poor workers and farmers and want to bring down the selfish corporations to help the farmers. I go to farmers markets because I like supporting the farmers directly.

But stealing just so you can get fancier food or stuff you want w/o compensating the people who do the work, then you are pond scum.
sure, if somebody steals because they are materialistic and want stupid unnecessary things, then I agree with you. I am against this kind of materialism that capitalism encourages.

what I support is stealing to survive, or stealing to economically hurt a selfish corporation or the whole corrupt system.

As for being our duty to steal... well, that tells me you don't have a little thing called personal honor. I
what does honour have to do with it? having to live in a country that despises you because you're not white, scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets for your whole life, for minimum wage or less, not having any human rights or social benefits, living paycheck to paycheck for utilities and food just to survive, trying to support your children? this is honour?

99% of human history, 3 billion years, was spent living off the Earth, without any monetary systems. we took only what we need to eat, only what we needed to build shelters and possibly clothes. we didn't have to pay money to some stupid corporation or government just to survive. we had great lives, with plenty of food and resources, working 20 hours or less per week, with the rest of the time for leisure, personal and spiritual exploration. that is where the honour lies.

i am not talking about the big corporations, but the people who really matter... the farmers, the laborers who work their asses off so you can sit in your homes, type on your computers, and steal the food that they have sweat and bled to bring to you.
the farmers and labourers are poor and have crappy lives because the stingy corporations who make record profits every year don't pay them well, don't give them benefits, strip them of their dignity.

I support farmers and workers in their fight against the corporations and the government for justice. do you support the taco bell boycott? did you boycott safeway in support of the workers who were locked out? do you cook healthy, homemade food and feed the homeless?

don't think I'm some rich kid who steals for the hell of it to have expensive shit and doesn't care for the workers and the farmers and the poor. i support people who, little by little, deal economic damage to rich, selfish corporations by stealing, and through other actions. i support farmers directly by buying from them through farmers markets.


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(Anonymous)
2005-11-05 07:53 am UTC (link)
im not a girl, how did you conclude that?
how am i raising the prices for everyone? if you read the post it should be very clear that STEPHANIE did so bitch to her.
how am i lying, stealing, and casting stones about other poeples lives?

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[info]damashita
2005-11-05 06:24 pm UTC (link)
at the self checkout today stephanie used the code for falafel when buying nutritional yeast when clearly she should have used the code for corn meal which is cheaper.! 0.80 vs 2.50 for falafel, the yeast is like almost 6. falafel has green bits in it

You are right... you didn't state that you did this act... you were just telling someone else what she should have done in order to steal MORE from the company (pick a cheaper cheaper item rather than a bit cheaper item). That makes you much more honorable. i apologize.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-04 10:55 am UTC (link)
amen to that. plus wolf hybrids are dangerous.

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[info]damashita
2005-11-04 04:17 pm UTC (link)
Not necessarily. i know that more people get bit by yappy-dogs (smaller breeds) than the bigger "dangerous" breeds.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:45 am UTC (link)
yes, smaller breeds can be dangerous as well. I'm not saying bigger breeds are more dangerous... on the whole, smaller breeds are probably more dangerous. but animals like wolves are wild by nature and are not easily domesticated. it took hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, to domesticate dogs to the "safe" demeanors they now have, and look how dangerous some of them still are.

wolves are wild animals, and make dangerous companion animals, even if they are only 1/4 wolf. moreoever, wolves have more rigourous social and behaviour requirements that are not easily met by being cooped up in a house or backyard. they are pack animals and require that kind of social stimulation.

Here is Wolf Haven's statement:
Wolf Haven International stands firm in its opposition to breeding, selling, owning, trafficking and promoting wolf-dogs (and wolves) as pets and believes that most wolf-dogs are bred and purchased by people who are unaware of the animals’ highly unique physical and social needs, behavioral traits, and possible characteristics. For this reason, and more outlined on the following pages, Wolf Haven strongly advises against the keeping of wolf-dogs and wolves as pets.

check out http://www.wolfhaven.org/Think_Again_Main.htm for more info.

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[info]chaoscat
2005-11-09 06:08 am UTC (link)
and yet... Wolfhaven allowed one of their residents to suffer in misery before finally putting him to sleep. Again, I repeat, I do not trust a damn thing Wolfhaven says anymore. They have shown me a lack of respect for their animals, at least when I ever get a terminally ill animal, I put it to sleep humanely (by the veterinarian) rather than sitting by and watching it struggle.

Mid-content and low-content wolfdogs are NOT dangerous when in the hands of a competent and knowledgable owner. While High-content animals can be more wolfish in behavior, they're still not bad dogs, just can't keep one in the house. High-content wolfdogs need an enclosure of at LEAST one acre per dog.

I think maybe you should visit a few people who own wolfdogs, get to know the dog, and figure things out for yourself rather than listening to propoganda by those who want everyone to pay to see their wolves, but who refuse to pay to have a wolf put down when it is suffering.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 08:02 am UTC (link)
the issue with the sick wolf was more complicated, and it's not just black and white. there were other things they were considering, and it's not an easy decision to make. perhaps they made a mistake. I don't know, and I don't know much about the situation, but regardless, sometimes, unfortunately, mistakes are made, but I don't think that invalidates everything that Wolf Haven does. they perform great work and really help wolves. I refute your claim that their factsheets are propaganda and that Wolf Haven exists merely to make money. If they existed only to make money, they would be more like a zoo in nature and not take the great care of the wolves that they do.

they are a reputable animal rescue organization and I trust them more than breeders who profit from the exploitation and theft of wild animals from Nature.

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[info]chaoscat
2005-11-04 04:18 pm UTC (link)
Since when? Sure, Wolf-hybrids constantly chained up or kept in really tiny pens are dangerous, but they hurt less people than pitbulls or german shepherds (the top two dangerous dogs). Wolf-hys only count for 15% of all bites, and every single case has been because the dog was abused or not cared for properly.

My friend has owned his for years and never had a problem with biting or attacks. Maybe it's because he gives his dogs several properly fenced acres to roam, takes them to training, and doesn't beat them or chain them up. He's also very picky about who purchases one from him, and any prospective owners go through a strict questioning process.

You're just mad because he wouldn't sell one to a careless freak like you.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:48 am UTC (link)
why would I be mad? I oppose exploitation and captivation of wild animals.

Here is Wolf Haven's statement:
Wolf Haven International stands firm in its opposition to breeding, selling, owning, trafficking and promoting wolf-dogs (and wolves) as pets and believes that most wolf-dogs are bred and purchased by people who are unaware of the animals’ highly unique physical and social needs, behavioral traits, and possible characteristics. For this reason, and more outlined on the following pages, Wolf Haven strongly advises against the keeping of wolf-dogs and wolves as pets.

Check out for more info:
http://www.wolfhaven.org/Think_Again_Main.htm

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[info]tiffanybea
2005-11-04 05:34 pm UTC (link)
I've had two wolf-hybrid dogs for over 12 years. If any stranger pulled into my yard, they would run off to hide. They were scared of strangers and only let members of the family come near them. If someone were to try to break into that house, my wolf would have been hiding with the cats. Never ONCE did they attack, bite or even jump up and scratch a person.

I currently own two white german shepherds. Both have fantastic temperments and will easily welcome an invited guest into my home. Still, if someone tries to approach me on the street, both dogs immediately go into defensive mode. I once lived in a bad neighborhood and they attacked an intruder that was trying to break into my house while I was in it. The wolves did not do that. In fact, if you do your research, they make terrible "guard dogs". Their first instinct is to run.

And in the United States, the number one "biting" dog is the Cocker Spaniel.

The breeding and keeping of wolf-hybrids is a highly controversial issue certainly. So is declawing cats. While I do agree that a wolf-hybrid is only for the most responsible of dog owners, I will say that my two were the best animals I've ever had.

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:54 am UTC (link)
I don't have personal experience, so I can only give you the statement of Wolf Haven International:

Wolf Haven International stands firm in its opposition to breeding, selling, owning, trafficking and promoting wolf-dogs (and wolves) as pets and believes that most wolf-dogs are bred and purchased by people who are unaware of the animals’ highly unique physical and social needs, behavioral traits, and possible characteristics. For this reason, and more outlined on the following pages, Wolf Haven strongly advises against the keeping of wolf-dogs and wolves as pets.

for more info:
http://www.wolfhaven.org/Think_Again_Main.htm

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[info]killtacoma
2005-11-05 08:18 am UTC (link)
what disgusts and upsets me most about this thread is how some one is able to determine the value of something living based soley on markings.
shouldnt they all be as valuable as the next?
how does COLOR make you more valuable?
whats so wrong with being female red with brown eyes ($350)? and how is that less than being husky type with blue eyes ($500)?

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[info]scorpio398
2005-11-09 02:57 am UTC (link)
the whole idea of commodifying a living being, of given different values to different beings, is digusting, and is at the heart of capitalism.

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[info]killtacoma
2005-11-05 08:24 am UTC (link)
if your friend sincerely cared about the animals wouldnt he value them all the SAME reguardless of COLOR?

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[info]sardonicsnake
2005-11-10 06:39 am UTC (link)
Did it ever cross your mind that it might not have anything to do with color at all? That perhaps the dog that requires the highest amount of matinence might be priced higher because the breeder knows that if the potential buyer is willing to pay five hundred dollars for their animal then they have to be pretty damn serious about wanting/caring for that particuar puppy?

And even if that isn't the case then what bussiness is it of yours really? Are you planning on buying one of these animals? Do you know the breeder? Do you own Wolf-Hybreds? Are you going to give the breeder a call and take it up with him/her? Do you know ANYTHING about the breeders application process? If you were serious, or actually cared for that matter, you would call the breeder up. Instead you're mearly making a PEST of yourself on somebodies LJ because you're BORED.

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