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maybe as a new member of the community it is inappropriate for me to offer, but I speak and read German and could certainly offer an amateur translator's opinion of the German text.
Thank you so much for offering. Any help that anyone can offer is greatly appreciated, so by all means if you have time to look at these that would be great. Having a 2nd party who can confirm everything will definitely help.
I'm happy to say that the girl who posted the Italian translation of my one entries to FFN yesterday has removed it from the site. The original culprit Li Ping has not made a move to do anything. Here I've only posted the links to my fics. I've advised the other authors whose works have been plagiarized by her. If you look at her FFN profile page, every single one of this girl's fics in German (and the one in Italian) is a direct translation of someone else's fic.
I have read the first three paragraphs of your first example "Brief Repose." The link provided is unquestionably a German translation and as word for word as could be hoped for, and not a Babelfish machine translation either. I am not expert enough to tell you if a professional translator did it or not, but there is no doubt that it is a translation into German of your text, including specific words which may have better cognates in German, i.e. "Minimum." Every sentence of your text has been translated more or less exactly. Before you get them to tear down their content, make sure to make a copy, because this looks like a good translation! (I'm not sure if that constitutes plagiarism of a translation though!!!)
Cheers,
Louise
While it doesn't make it right, she does acknowledge that it's a translation:
Disclaimer. es ist eine Übersrtung. die Oroginalstory ist von Lightbird
(Disclaimer. It is a translation. The original story is by Lightbird.)
I see this as a really murky issue - because on the one hand the original is yours and, morally, it would've been appropriate for her to contact you first. Plus, as the original author, you would like to have some say over whether the translation appropriately captures the nuances and subtlties of your story - something that isn't so easy to do when going from language-to-language.
However, speaking as someone who spent many years working to become fluent in a second language, in translating - and especially when you're trying to capture the same voice and tone as the original - you are creating something new, and putting a lot of your own artistic voice into it. This is why teachers of foreign literature often make a practice of selecting one translated version of a work over another, as each person has their own opinion on what is "best" - it's why biblical scholars argue over which is the most authoritative version of the bible, and many bibles now come with footnotes (e.g., indicating that Adam is not just a name, but also the ancient word for "earth" or "clay" or the issue of Red Sea vs. Sea of Reeds).
Like I said, I think she's morally in the wrong, at least inasmuch as she didn't ask you first. However, she did disclaim authorship. As to the translation - IMHO it's flat, but it did involve more work than just running your original through babelfish.
![[User Picture]](http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/56889177/9019835) | From: ![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) lightbird777
2006-11-16 04:56 pm (UTC)
I thank you for your reply, but this is not a murky issue | (Link)
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(1) If you read my post carefully you would have seen that I said she only added the disclaimer AFTER I caught her and said something. Her intention was to pass this off as her own. She did not ask my permission. (2) This is not a re-working of the stories into another language. There is absolutely NO artistic nuance or interpretation here. This is a direct translation of my one-shot; the events, the dialog, everything is the same; nothing has been changed about this story. The nuances of choosing one word over another don't mean anything here. Even if it's a new presentation of it, it is still theft of the idea and the creativity behind the work; whether she worked hard on the translation or ran it through babelfish doesn't matter. It's my story, my brainchild and my creative work (3) Finally, when you buy a book that's been translated into another language, for example JK Rowling's Harry Potter series has been translated into several languages. Those copies don't appear with the translators' names on the cover; the translator credit comes second, as a footnote. Granted, that is clear cut ownership, whereas this is fanfic. But the same rules apply - a translated story is put forth as the original author's work, who wrote it in the original language. Li Ping should have asked my permission to translate, and the translation should have been posted by me, under my penname, with a credit to her as the translator. This is not a case of her re-working the story into something. I also work in the legal field, and if this wasn't fanfic, it would be a definite copyright issue, especially since her actions were underhanded. I'll say again, these stories were NOT posted with the disclaimer until I caught her when I returned to the site and told her that her behavior was improper. And the disclaimer is not enough. It's my work. It should be under my name.
![[User Picture]](http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/79053102/2307764) | From: nnaylime
2006-11-16 05:25 pm (UTC)
Re: I thank you for your reply, but this is not a murky issue | (Link)
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Note that I also said I found the translation to be flat. I agree that it could've been done better, but I also think it took some work, and in this case think it was more an issue of wanting to make a story she enjoyed accessable to a wider audience. Did she go about it properly? No. But I also don't think it was done with malice. I think the guilt here is more one of ignorance than of anything else, and while that doesn't make the behavior appropriate, I also don't think it's necessary to come down like the metaphorical ton of bricks on the metaphorical testicals.
I'm also well aware with the copyright issues with regard to translation, and where the credit goes. However, the translator also "owns" the end result inasmuch as one would not be able to republish a translated work and claim the end result as their own. Rather, were one to want to publish a translation of that same material, they'd have to start over. And it would be different, because each person brings their own ideas to it.
Again, I'm not saying that this is appropriate or excusable, but I don't necessarily want to be shooting first and asking questions later either.
| From: lightbird777
2006-11-16 05:47 pm (UTC)
Re: I thank you for your reply, but this is not a murky issue | (Link)
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Thanks again for your reply. This is always a hot topic. I agree that the translator to a degree "owns" the end result in the manner that you say, and I have no argument as to what you have to say about translations and how they work. Yes, every translation is different, and something expressed in one language often has to be rethought and worded in a different way in the new language in order for it to make sense, flow smoothly and capture the essence and spirit of the original.
This girl did exact translations of several people's work. Is it malice? Maybe not. And I agree with you that she probably wanted to make these stories which she enjoyed accessible to a wider audience, and I do take it as a compliment, though a left-handed one. But she definitely went about it the wrong way and it is a clear cut case of plagiarism. She directly translated several people's works. I had to ask her more than once just to add the disclaimer. She finally added it after I sent her a final private message saying that I would have to report her if she didn't add it.
I've reported her to the FFN administrators. I don't know how long they'll take, or if they'll do anything at all, but ultimately it's their site so it'll be they're call whether they see this as a violation.
Also, just to follow up on my comment, she's done this to 3 other authors. And there are no disclaimers on those. My stories have them because I caught her.
Hi! Thanks for posting.
My German's good enough to see that they are copies, though unfortunately the Italian verson seems to have been removed - I don't suppose you have a screencap of it anywhere? And do you know, by any chance, who any of the other authors are that she's copied?
Also, have you asked her to remove the stories since she credited them? It's possible she may have misinterpreted what you said originally (not that it makes it better in any way, but it might be possible to get them down). As for ff.net themselves, we've found in the past that they can be extremely slow when it comes to complaints. It might be that they haven't got to yours yet, but we can always remind them. ;)
Thank you for your reply. Yes, the Italian version was removed. I had contacted that author, and she did remove it immediately. I did ask Li Ping to remove these, even after she added the disclaimer. At first I thought it would be okay if she at least did that. But I still didn't feel comfortable, because the fact of the matter is she never asked for my permission to translate them, and these were up for a month with no disclaimer. I was away, and when I returned to the site I found them. She only added the disclaimer because I caught her and called her on it. Then I found that she's done this to 3 other authors, and she does not have disclaimers on those because they didn't catch her. These are being posted as if they're her own stories. After speaking to some other authors, they agreed that the disclaimer was not enough. It's my work and should be posted under my name with a credit to the translator, not the other way around. The idea and the creativity is from me. Every single German story on her page (and the one Italian) is a translated copy of someone else's work. I've added the links but I'm not sure if they'll work from here: the 2 Detective Conan stories are German translations of Chapters 9 and 10 of Candyland's "30 Kisses: Shinichi and Ran" ( http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2644536/1/). The Sailor Moon story is a copy of Princesses Mercury and Venus' "10 Reasons Why I Love You" ( http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2885798/1/). And the X-Files story is a copy of MyID's "A Different Choice" ( http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1838228/1/)
I'm so sorry it's taken me a week to get back to you. We try not to deal with this number of cases at any one time, and RL's been such that it's been a little hectic all round. Thank you though, for finding the other fics that had been plagiarised by Li Ping, that was extremely helpful.
Basically, I just wanted to let you know that I've contacted Li Ping, and so after after giving them a short while to respond/not I should be able to progress from there. :)
Thanks for looking into this. I realize it takes time to resolve.
oh, by the way, the email alerts on FFN haven't been working for the past few days, so if you've contacted her through their private message system, it may not go through right away - i think there's an issue with their server again
Stupid server. ;) Thanks for telling me - though I managed to track down her email I mean to contact the other authors involved, which it might impact on.
Hi, sorry to keep bothering you about this, but I received a comment from one of the other authors who has had their stuff translated and posted by Li Ping. This one is regarding another author, one I mentioned in my original post, Chen06, who it turns out has posted German translations of one of my works and this author's work on yet another fanfic site (a German site called AnimeXX). Chen06 is the penname on ffn and on this AnimeXX site. I'm not sure if Chen06 and Li Ping are the same person with 2 different pennames on ffn or if they're friends. Chen06 has also posted another of candy--chan's (she's candyland on ffn) kisses on ffn. I've provided the links below for your convenience: Candyland's original posted in Jan. 2006: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2644536/2/Chen06's Italian copy posted Nov. 2006: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3250135/1/
Chen06's fics on Animexx have been removed, so don't worry for that site at least anymore. And I'm afraid I have to confirm azamir, the german "translations" are just horrifying, some sentences have no correct grammar at all and don't make any sense. Same goes for some titles, especially "Rumors, Troublemaker" and the german version "Gerüchte Ärger". I'm really sorry for that.^^; I don't know how babblefish works, but I'm quite certain that she did not have "lots of work" with the translations, because she oddly enough made no spelling mistakes in the text itself (or at least I couldn't find any that far), but she couldn't even write the disclaimer properly. That's why I seriously doubt that she has written the translations all by herself, even if I don't know what a translation by a translation machines would look like.^^;
Okay, thanks. I think FFN is still having server issues, so it's impossible to even get through to them.
Yeah, I don't know if it was done through babblefish, but the translation was very word for word, which never works from one language to another. Oh, well, the real issue of course is her trying to pass it off as her own, even if she does look like an idiot with the translations she's posting.
Please don't worry about bothering me - I'm just sorry for being slow. Chen06 seems to have removed her things on AnimeXX, but I've got a copy of her ff.net story; thanks for the links! I would definitely say that they're associated in some way, since if you look at Chen06's favourite stories the only ones that aren't Mulan fics are ones that Li Ping ripped off. I think I can probably include her in the case, whoever she is. (I'll need to track down someone who reads Italian, just to confirm, but I think spiralleds, another mod, said that she knew someone, so that should be all right.)
bf_nightingale was kind enough to drop the admins of three different German fic sites a line on my/our behalf, and the admins responded very quickly to block or remove the accounts/stories. Praise, I say! That leaves ff-dot-net. Hopefully, that can get taken care of soon as well =)
Just wanted to clarify for you, there are actually 2 X-Files stories on her page. The less recent one is a copy of the link I gave you in my reply to your post. The more recent one is a copy of this one "3 AM" ( http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2501314/1/)
Gaaaah! It doesn't really matter whether she credits you or not--the rules at FFN say you're not allowed to post someone else's work. Even if she had your permission it would be wrong for her to do that, and she doesn't. You're so lucky you read those languages!
Thanks for your feedback. Most people that have contacted me do agree that it's wrong.
It should be clear there is no question of plagiarism given the facts. The only problem (and it is a frustrating one) is whether or not the offender can be compelled to rectify the situation and remove the content they stole from you. It is very invasive and feels very disorientating when someone does this, but in your case there is a hidden benefit: you have free German and Italian translations if you want to use them - because they were translated without your permission!
....
I'm German, and that person who translated this definitely does not have enough experience with the German language to do any translating... the translation is not good at all, there are lots of grammatical mistakes, the sentence-structure is taken directly from the english sentences and that just doesn't work for German.
so, I'd really press for a deletion of the translations, because no German person would really think you're a good author from these translations... not even the disclaimer was written correctly... translation is "Übersetzung" in german, and original story is "Originalstory" or "Originalgeschichte"
If you should ever want a translation of your stuff, make sure you get a fan of your writing who is a native speaker and has good grades in his/her mother tongue and english at school. as this person seems to also know italian, she's either Italian (and I met a girl from italy who said she could talk german very well... bullshit. her german was a little better than my french, and my french is barely enough to survive with in need.) or even english, and learned both those languages as foreign ones, which is just as bad.
So, yeah. try to get it taken offline, it's not much of a praise for you. people who're not fluent in a language shouldn't translate to or from that language. especially not fiction. there's a reason why professional translators have to undergo a training and get a diploma.
Aza^^
Thanks for your feedback. Yes, this girl actually is Italian, and though my German isn't spectacular I can see that it's really a direct translation. Plus it was done without my permission (and of course posted without my permission), as is the case with the other authors she did this to. Hopefully the FFN admins will remove all of these, but they are notoriously slow about these things.
Hey, Lightbird! This was just brought to my attention by a kind soul on my LJ, and I thought you might want to take a look at it if you weren't already aware of it. There's an account on AnimeXX that seems to be posting some very familiar fanfics. I compared Li Ping's translations of mine with these, and as near as I can tell, it's a match. And there are Mulan stories on there--I'd bet money that they're yours. I don't know if this is the same person under a different name or what, but I just thought you'd like to know. Hang in there!
Chen06 is a different penname on ffn who has been doing the same things (not sure if it's Li Ping with a 2nd account or a friend). She posted one of my fics in Italian, but took it down after I contacted her. I now see that she has once again posted one of your DC kisses (chapter 2), but in Italian on ffn. I'm not sure if the admins. will do anything. Right now the site seems to have a lot of different problems.
Thanks for the heads up. One of the mods of this site has contacted Li Ping. I guess we need to make her aware of Chen06 too!
![[User Picture]](http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/49851515/2180972) | From: candy__chan
2006-11-25 05:25 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks for the Heads Up | (Link)
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Thank you very much for putting so much effort into this. I'm not really fluent in any other languages, so it's doubtful that I would have ever known this was going on. I really do appreciate you picking up the banner for all of us ♥ If there's anything else I can do to help, drop me a line. You are an awesome person =D | |
pissed off