geri_chan ([info]geri_chan) wrote in [info]snapedom,
@ 2007-09-19 19:19:00
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Entry tags:question/rant, severus snape

Question about Snape and purebloods
Something has been bugging me ever since Half-Blood Prince came out: did Snape's fellow Slytherins and Death Eaters know that he was a half-blood, or did they think that he was a pureblood? The Prince's Tale chapter in DH seems to indicate that he was readily accepted into Slytherin--welcomed by Lucius Malfoy and befriended by Avery and the other budding Death Eaters. I can't see them welcoming a half-blood into their ranks so easily, but wouldn't they have been able to tell by his last name that he probably wasn't a pureblood?

The wizarding world is fairly small and insular, and I believe that in OotP, when Harry is looking at the Black Family tapestry and is surprised to find Draco Malfoy on it, Sirius says something about all the pureblood families being interrelated to some extent. If Severus was trying to pass himself off as a pureblood, shouldn't someone have said, "Hey, I've never heard of any purebloods named Snape"? Or, contrary to what was implied in that OotP scene, is the pureblood population large enough that an unfamiliar name would go unremarked? Perhaps everyone recognizes the oldest and wealthiest families like the Blacks, but there are enough obscure pureblood families that Snape's housemates wouldn't question his heritage. Or maybe they just assume that only a pureblood would be Sorted into Slytherin.

Going off on a slight tangent, since there seems to be a limited amount of pure blood to go around, I'm wondering if the unbalanced natures of some of the Death Eaters--Bellatrix being the obvious example--are due to upbringing or inbreeding? Is she just like that because she was indoctrinated with fanatic pureblood doctrine first at home and then in the DEs, or did her Black ancestors intermarry one too many times? Or maybe it's just her--Narcissa and Andromeda seem pretty normal, after all. I also like to chalk up Crabbe's and Goyle's stupidity to inbreeding. It just seems logical that if the same families keep intermarrying, sooner or later it's going to result in problems. In my Snupin fanfic series, which was started pre-HBP, when everyone still assumed that Snape was a pureblood, I had Snape's father choose a bride from a foreign pureblood family, precisely because he was afraid that the British familes were becoming too inbred. (Of course HBP came along and ruined that theory, but I don't mind writing AU.)

Getting back on track, if Snape's fellow Slytherins did know that he was a half-blood, how did he come to be accepted into the Death Eater crowd? Maybe Lucius saw Snape's talent in Potions and the Dark Arts, and decided that he would make a useful follower even if his blood wasn't as pure as it should be, and the others accepted him because Lucius did? I just have a hard time believing that the Death Eaters would knowingly welcome a half-blood into their ranks--I recall that Bellatrix refuses to believe Harry when he taunts her with the fact that Voldemort is really a half-blood. Even if for some reason, Snape was accepted as a half-blood Death Eater, due to either Malfoy's or Voldemort's approval, I would expect that the other Death Eaters would taunt him about his impure blood, for example in the Spinner's End chapter in HBP, when Bellatrix is questioning Snape's loyalty. She's distrustful and jealous of him, so I would expect her to make a remark like, "How can the Dark Lord trust a half-blood like you?" or something along those lines.

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here unless, God forbid, Rowling chooses to give another interview to "clarify" loose ends in the series. (Sorry, that was a bit petty, but I couldn't resist. ^_^) But I am curious to hear other people's opinions on the subject. Personally, I'm leaning towards "everyone assumed Snape was a pureblood" even if I don't find it very logical.



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[info]lisasimpsonfan
2007-09-20 06:53 am UTC (link)
I assumed that they knew he was a half-blood and didn't care. One thing that is consistent with slytherins is that they value power. I can't remember who said it but supposedly Snape knew more dark arts before he came to Hogwarts then his much older classmates. That makes him incredibly useful to the Dark Lord's cause. I don't think any of the Death Eaters were there just because of their bloodlines. Voldermort picked people who would be useful to him like Malfoy's wealth or Wormtail's information. I don't see a true slytherin having a problem using Snape's abilities to the fullest of their advantage no matter what his bloodline.

If he was accepted into their social clique we will never know but I doubt it. The Wizard World is too entrenched in it in's ways to not have old fashion morals and social customs. And I can't see our favorite Professor giving a darn about which spoon he uses to stir his tea.

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[info]bohemianspirit
2007-09-20 11:21 am UTC (link)
I can't remember who said it but supposedly Snape knew more dark arts before he came to Hogwarts then his much older classmates.

It was Sirius Black, and frankly, I take the literal truth of the claim with a 40-pound bag of rock salt. Maybe that's just me, but if so, I'm surprised more people don't consider the source and consider it an ad hominem slam built around a grain of truth.

The grain of truth: Severus arrived at Hogwarts with an interest in, possibly even a fascination with, the Dark Arts, and he arrived with an incredibly intelligent mind to go with that interest. The Slytherin crowd rewarded him for his brains and for his interest in the DA, which only fueled his interest in pursuing them, and yes, regardless of blood status, they would have found him a Very Valuable Resource.

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[info]catherinecookmn
2007-09-20 07:51 pm UTC (link)
I don't see a true slytherin having a problem using Snape's abilities to the fullest of their advantage no matter what his bloodline.

Case in point: Horace Slughorn. Lily Evans was far and away his favorite student, even though she was not only muggle-born but a Gryffindor. And he certainly adored both Harry and Hermione. He may well be a spineless snob, but he's also a true meritocrat. He also has no use for Death Eaters such as Lucius or Draco (despite having been a friend of Draco's grandfather Abraxas) and the Notts.

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[info]hope_24
2007-09-20 09:37 am UTC (link)
Maybe it could have been seen as a real coup to encourage a halfblood to join? The idea of a halfblood rejecting their Muggle background to embrace their wizarding heritage might have seemed like a 'conversion', almost, pleasingly dramatic for propaganda purposes?

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[info]sigune
2007-09-20 09:58 am UTC (link)
In DH, the Death Eaters don't make a fuss about half-bloods - it's only Muggle-borns they are up against. I assume that in the previous war, they reasoned the same way. Their point is that someone with no magical parent cannot make any claim on magic, magical education, or magical heritage. Obviously they think it is better to have pure magical blood, but as soon as you have one magical parent, you obviously have not 'stolen' your powers.

I think everybody who cared to find out, could and would know that Snape was a half-blood. They probably wouldn't have treated him with as much deference as a pure-blood, but they wouldn't have a problem with him, as long as he didn't take pride in having a Muggle father.

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[info]bohemianspirit
2007-09-20 11:28 am UTC (link)
As someone else already answered, it appears that the Death Eaters didn't object to being half-blood, only purely Muggle-born. I always found that more than a little ironic, that some of the people ranting against the evils of Muggles themselves had Muggle blood... and I believe it was raising that very point that got Neville some of his cuts and bruises in Muggle Studies. Nothing worse than trying to apply logic to bigotry--and bigots!

In Severus' case, I'm not sure if he truly harbored prejudice against Muggles; it seems to me that it was an acquired prejudice (undoubtedly acquired via his mother, who was married to a less than exemplary representative of Muggledom) which was reinforced by the only crowd that really "accepted" him at Hogwarts. But the fact of his friendship with Lily seems to have created some cognitive dissonance, and the fact that his use of the word "Mudblood" was what Lily used to break their friendship probably led him to do further introspection and questioning, especially after Lily was killed by Voldy. My guess is that Severus outgrew the anti-Muggle kneejerk prejudice he'd learned, and channeled those negative sentiments towards the specific Muggle who had made his life miserable, his father.

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[info]catherinecookmn
2007-09-20 07:52 pm UTC (link)
That's exactly it: Bigotry is seldom logical; otherwise it wouldn't be bigotry.

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-20 01:55 pm UTC (link)
I favour the "acceptance of half-bloods" theories posted above - after all, there would have to be lots of 1/2 & 1/2 folk around, wouldn't there? And you don't see the term "half-blood" used as an insult like "mudblood" is. Even Draco doesn't hassle Harry for being a 1/2-blood. Snape claimed his 1/2-blood heritage for himself (even if it's only privately & ironically) by titling himself the "Half-blood Prince".
But I think that even if 1/2s were accepted, or at least tacitly not referred to, they would never have the status the high-born pure-bloods claim for themselves.
*One thing I've wondered about Voldemort & Bella's reaction to Harry's 1/2-blood comment is - wouldn't some of the death-eaters been aware that Voldemort was once Tom Riddle, & probably 1/2blood? Isn't there some mention, in Slughorn's untampered memory, of Avery & someone else, Lestrange maybe, being present just before Riddle asks the question about Horcruxes? So if there was a connection between the Avery that Riddle knows, & the Avery Snape knows, wouldn't it have been known among the death-eaters? Maybe they thought being the heir of Slytherin, & Tom's power, charisma & ambition, was sufficient to give status?*

Re. the in-breeding theory - I think that's really likely! I don't actually know what the effects of a limited gene pool would have on a human community - I would assume a greater incidence of physical disfigurement, also eventually(?) common features among the members of the group - but I believe it's likely to eventually lead to mental instability. In-breeding does have that effect with horses, & I think, with dogs also.

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[info]red_day_dawning
2007-09-20 02:02 pm UTC (link)
RE. Anonymous comment above - That's actually me, I must have accidentally checked the anonymous box above as I posted. Sorry.

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[info]catherinecookmn
2007-09-20 07:54 pm UTC (link)
Rowling's making Riddle a half-blood is to me a reference to the rumors that Adolf Hitler had a Jewish grandmother, I suspect.

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[info]geri_chan
2007-09-20 07:57 pm UTC (link)
I don't have the books in front of me right now, but I thought Dumbledore said in Book 2 that no one knows that Tom Riddle is really Voldemort. Although Tom seems to have been very popular when he was a student even though he was a half-blood. I think maybe it's okay for his followers to be half-bloods, but the Death Eaters probably assume that their leader is a pureblood.

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[info]tribal_tiger
2007-10-25 06:53 am UTC (link)
it certainly is in his best interests to push that, and i don't exactly see him telling the truth if it might bite him in the ass.

Even if some knew, i'm sure it wouldn't be hard for him to convince them to keep their traps shut, and as with the 1/2 blood issue, i think they find it more important that he disowns his muggle heritage, and embraces his magical ancestry as superior.

Leaders are less what they are and more what they stand for.

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[info]drmm
2007-09-20 04:44 pm UTC (link)
I always assumed it had to do with a rejection of his Muggle heritage. In other words, while Snape admitted that his father was a half-blood, he wasn't proud of his father at all, while he was entirely proud of his 'Prince' blood. After OOtP, I strongly suspected that Snape was half-blood and reasoned that Voldemort would be willing to accept Snape back as a Death Eater is because Voldemort recognized the similarites between Snape's background and his own.

Snape may have originally been considered a lower-class Slytherin than his pureblood classmates but that's where I suspect power and knowledge of the dark arts came in.

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[info]zerdevi
2007-09-20 07:59 pm UTC (link)
I would like to know more about the Prince family. Were they rich and influential like the Blacks or poor and rather insignificant like the Weasleys? If they were influential in the wizarding community, perhaps being a half-Prince would compensate for having a Muggle father?

On the other hand, when Lupin is asked about the Half-Blood Prince, he claims to have never heard about anyone called Prince. Maybe the whole Prince-family was just Eileen and her parents?

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[info]cardigrl
2007-09-21 03:35 am UTC (link)
I've assumed his classmates knew Snape was a half blood and didn't care because he was useful. "any means" after all.

It seems logical to me that Slytherins would treat half bloods differently than muggleborns, especially in a Dumbledore Hogwarts. There's much emphasis on accepting muggles and muggleborns, including a muggle studies program. But we don't see any indication that muggleborns are given any lessons on wizarding culture, etc. It's like when you get a new job---do you spend the first month finding out how your co-workers do things and what the rules are, or do you spend it lecturing everybody about how YOU think things should be. The latter tends to alienate people (to put it mildly), and seems to describe Dumbledore's attitude towards purebloods, wizarding "culture and history", and muggleborns. He shows so much contempt for wizarding history and culture that he couldn't even be bothered to round up a living teacher to handle History of Magic. The man guaranteed resentment with almost every action.

Of course, that's not to say the DE were justified, but that kind of resentment is like fertilizer for hatred and bigotry. And it strikes me that Dumbledore just kept shoveling.

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[info]geri_chan
2007-09-21 04:35 am UTC (link)
He shows so much contempt for wizarding history and culture that he couldn't even be bothered to round up a living teacher to handle History of Magic.


That always bothered me too, although I hadn't considered that he was being contemptful of wizarding history. I originally thought that maybe he was too soft-hearted to replace Binns, although I wouldn't consider him "soft-hearted" anymore after reading DH. Anyway, it did disturb me that most of the students aren't learning anything from Binns because he's so boring that he puts them to sleep. At best, they're learning rote memorization to pass their exams and most likely forgetting about it as soon as the exam is over. A better teacher (like say, someone actually alive?) could have gotten the students more interested in topics like the Goblin Rebellion, and maybe questioning the wizarding prejudices that Dumbledore claims to be against. Which now makes me wonder why he isn't trying harder to educate the students.

Then again, Hogwarts teaching standards seem to be rather low: Trelawney and Lockhart are pretty incompetent, although I guess there are extentuating circumstances, since Trelawney gave the prophecy about Harry, and the DADA position is difficult to fill. And Hagrid, while a nice guy, isn't exactly a good teacher, either--even the trio don't want to take his class after it's no longer required of them.

I also question the competence of the Muggle Studies teacher, since most of the students born in the wizarding world still seem to have no clue how the Muggle world works. Of course it may be an elective subject, so maybe not all the students take it--I can't recall offhand whether it's a required course or not.

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-22 10:03 am UTC (link)
although I guess there are extentuating circumstances, since Trelawney gave the prophecy about Harry

That's not actually a good reason to give somebody a teaching position, though.

Hell, even the *good* teachers at Hogwarts are pretty lame. Look at any of the schoolroom sessions from the first few books and they all basically consist of the teacher saying "point your wand and say this" and then letting the kids get on with it.

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[info]geri_chan
2007-09-21 04:45 am UTC (link)
Thanks everyone for all your great comments! You all made good points; I hadn't really stopped to think about the fact that "half-blood" isn't thrown around as an insult the way "mudblood" is, or about Lily being Slughorn's favorite student. I remember now that Lucius told Draco that he ought to be friendly with Harry for appearance's sake, although Draco obviously blew his chance with his offhand bigoted remarks. ^_^ It does make sense that a Slytherin will use someone who can be useful to them, whether or not he's a pureblood.

I guess it's also possible that a pureblood family can fall into obscurity. Someone mentioned that Lupin had never heard of the Princes, and the Gaunt family had obviously declined. I'm not sure whether or not the other pureblood families still knew that they were Slytherin's descendants, but they had certainly fallen into poverty.

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-21 09:24 pm UTC (link)
Perhaps half-blood Severus wound up good friends with the influential Slytherins who valued family and blood-purity above all else in roughly the same way that the sniveling coward Peter Pettigrew wound up (a) sorted into Gryffindor, house of the brave and (b) close enough to arch-Gryffindors Harry and Lily that they would literally trust him with their lives?

Depending on your preferences, that answer could be "because JK Rowling doesn't think these things through" or "because there are complex factors at work which never made it into the books but make everything make perfect sense."

- Dan Hemmens

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[info]camillo1978
2007-09-25 01:15 pm UTC (link)
After reading OotP and HBP I had a strong impression that the boy Snape dispised his Muggle heritage because his dad was horrible. This impression was confirmed in DH. I think that Snape would have openly renounced his Muggle background to his Slytherin schoolfriends and spent time ridiculing Muggles with them. He was utterly entranced by the magical world and wanted to embrace it completely. I think that would have been sufficient for the Slytherins and would have appealed greatly to Voldemort who felt the same way.

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