galadhir ([info]galadhir) wrote in [info]slashphilosophy,
@ 2005-01-21 18:39:00
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A Christian Perspective on Slash Fiction
I'm a committed Christian and a slash fan (and writer). As such I have been subjected to much criticism and condemnation by my fellow Christians, and a certain attitude of bafflement from fellow slash fans as to what the hell the problem was - it's just a matter of taste, isn't it.

So, after much soul searching and research into what the Bible actually said, I wrote an essay addressed to Christians defending slash and calling for them to fight injustice against gay people.

(Trouble is, I can't get this essay posted anywhere. So I offer it here to see if it makes any sense at all to anyone.
Edited on 27th January; Since so many people have now seen the essay it seems wrong to carry on calling it invisible! So I've altered the title. It was also posted in the Fanfic Symposium yesterday, so I take this bit back ;) )

A Christian Perspective on Slash Fiction.



Disclaimer: This essay is aimed primarily at Christians, because few others will sympathize with the dilemma, or care about the argument. As such, it's full of unashamedly Christian language and references to the Bible. If that upsets you, you don't have to read it. Consider yourself warned.

I wrote it because I am a Christian woman who enjoys slash fiction, and I don't see anything wrong in that. But it took me much soul searching, prayer, reading the Bible and commentaries, and discussion to get to that position, and I would like to share my conclusions with other slash-reading Christians, in order to spare them the months of struggle, self-doubt and self-hatred that I've gone through.

So, you're a Christian, and that is very important to you. You love God and want to do his will. You want to obey him, but you can't stop reading slash... You want to stop, because you believe it's wrong. The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, and it is therefore wrong to vicariously enjoy it.

You've tried to stop, but it's like an addiction - you keep coming back, and even if you can keep away from the stories, your own fantasy life is full of slash, and you can't get away from that. You're tired of fighting, tired of losing, afraid that God will condemn you, afraid that God hates you, because you are repugnant in his sight. You cry out to Him to free you from this sin. But he doesn't.

Perhaps you've tried to talk about it to your Christian friends, and you have suddenly experienced the full force of the condemnation which the Church can inflict; 'how could you do this? how could you betray your principles like this? this is a crisis of faith - you must stop the fantasizing, or lose your faith. God will disown you. God hates this.' And you're in despair, because only you know how hard you've tried to stop, but you can't.

I know, I've been there.

Or perhaps you come from the other side. Perhaps you're a Christian who cannot believe how vile this slash fiction is, how perverted and Godless the people must be who read and enjoy it - let alone those who write it. You feel it's your moral duty to speak up against it, to protect people from another of the evils of this permissive society of ours.

I hope this essay will help you too. I offer it in praise of God, whom I now understand to be far better, far kinder, far more accepting and loving than I had ever imagined. What truth is in it, He showed me. He rescued me from despair and in the process taught me to love him more, to detest a great injustice in society which previously I had ignored, and to resist the narrow legalism of the Church, which has turned into an instrument of hatred, where God intended us to be instruments of his love.

1. Erotic fiction per se; is it wrong?

To answer the question whether all erotic writing is wrong we need look no further than the Bible, which contains an entire chapter of erotic fiction called 'The Song of Songs.' It's not particularly explicit, but it is quite clearly a celebration of physical attraction, love and sex.

It's also (if commentators are to be believed) an allegory of the relationship between God and his Church, or the soul and Wisdom. But having deeper meaning does not mean that it is not a piece of erotic writing. On the contrary, it means that even erotic fiction can be used (a) to convey deeper truths, and (b) to glorify God.

'I'm not sure,' you might say. 'I don't think you should arouse sexual desire in any way other than with your spouse. Not even in thought. Not even with het erotica. After all, doesn't Jesus say that if a man even looks at a woman in lust he has committed adultery with her?

If that is so, then I would hope that as a Christian you were as vocal in objecting to the many depictions of het sex in mainstream films, on the TV and in books, as you are in objecting to slash. Many Christians are, of course, and I commend them for having a standpoint of integrity.

However, I don't think Jesus' words need to be taken to rule out all forms of erotica. He was talking about a married man (or woman) allowing themselves to lust after a real person, with whom adultery might be possible. Someone who would - if given the chance - sleep with someone other than their spouse.

This is not the case with those reading erotica. Firstly because - as with the Lover and the Beloved of the Song of Songs - the people in these stories are not real. There is no possibility of unfaithfulness, no intention of unfaithfulness, and indeed the reader cannot be (and does not want to be) part of the action. This is quite different from lusting after - wanting to have sexual congress with - anybody.

As C.S.Lewis says, sometimes it may be a married person's duty to increase their sexual urge to avoid frustrating their spouse, and erotica may be a useful way of achieving this.

But I digress.

Given the existence of the Song of Songs, many Christians would rightly say that heterosexual eroticism is not ruled out by the Bible. But they would object very strongly to slash (homosexual) eroticism.

It's not hard to see why. Most Christians believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin; more than a sin - an 'abomination'. It cannot be right to derive pleasure from a sin. Paul says; "Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." And they then conclude that they should not be thinking about gay sex, let alone having it form an important part of their fantasy life.

I think this is right. It must be harmful to take great pleasure in dwelling on murder, for example. It must be harmful to enjoy sin even in the imagination.

However - and here is the crux of the argument - the Bible does not say that homosexuality is a sin.

2. Homosexuality - is it a sin?

This is a question that requires a book in itself. Fortunately, that book has been written. It's called 'What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality', by Daniel A. Helminiak, and you can find it at Amazon.com, or Amazon.co.uk. I recommend it heartily, and suggest that - if the question worries you - you go and check out this reading list:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/2LZP7CCC0IDTH/ref%3Dcm%5Flm%5Fdp%5Fm%5F3/002-6003409-4818442

For the purposes of this essay I will just summarize the points made in this book, starting with the most obvious;

The story of Sodom does not condemn homosexuality; it condemns violence towards strangers, inhospitality and the attempted gang-rape of angels.

The related text in Jude about 'going after strange flesh' refers to sex between humans and angels. (If you remember, sex between human women and angels had created the race of giants, and that also was seen as a very bad thing.)

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 condemns lying with a man as with a woman as 'an abomination'. Abomination is an unfortunate translation for the Hebrew word, which means 'something which is unclean under the Purity Law.' Like eating shellfish, or touching a dead pig, it made a person ritually unclean. Since, under Grace, Christians have been released from the requirements of the Law, this does not apply to us.

Romans 1:19-32 equally refers to homosexuality as 'unclean' *not* as a sin. Paul's gist in this passage is that Gentile Idolatry lead to ritual uncleanness *and* it lead to real sin (such as envy, murder, strife, deceit etc). Paul then goes on to attack the notion that anything is unclean, and to maintain that it is only real sin which matters. In saying this, he actually places homosexuality in the category of 'things which are OK for Christians - like eating non kosher food.'

1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 are difficult to interpret because the greek words used are uncommon, and modern scholarship isn't entirely sure what they mean. But the consensus seems to be that they condemn male prostitutes (or just men who are lazy and self-obsessed) and men who prey sexually on other men, using power or money to force others to have sex with them. (Possibly they may be the clients of the prostitutes...but no one really knows.)

To assume that this is a blanket condemnation of gays is the same as assuming that a condemnation of pimps is a condemnation of all heterosexual sex.

The Bible does not classify all gay sex as a sin.

Therefore slash readers are not in the position of taking pleasure in imagining a sin. They are in the same position as readers of heterosexual erotica. And as we've seen above, that is not a position of condemnation.

We can accept gays, and we can accept ourselves. God does not hate us for this expression of the sexuality that he gave us. His church may still condemn us, but He does not, and that's what matters.

****

If we now go back to that passage from Paul:
"Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

We can see that the reading and writing of slash is not ruled out by this. On the contrary, if we are reading about love, about self-sacrifice, about heroism - as, in Lord of the Rings slash in particular, we often are - we are obeying this instruction. Remember that the Song of Songs embodies a truth about the overwhelming joy of the soul's love for God? Slash fiction too can contain wisdom, purity, beauty.

I know that I have found moments of deep loveliness in slash fiction - representations of the heartbreaking tenderness of first love; of awe. I have read slash stories which were beautiful, spiritual, softened my heart to feel compassion and made me praise God.

Of course, I've read absolutely ghastly ones as well. Not all slash is good slash, and there are stories out there which make you want to wash out your head with lye. Like drinking wine, it's a pleasure that has to be faced with responsibility, remembering that love is the nature of God, but torture is not, nor is unbridled promiscuity, nor rape. We still need to be careful about what we approve of, what we learn to enjoy. But we need not condemn the whole genre, nor ourselves. God did not make us - with our strange sexuality - just to suffer, or to be sent to hell.

***

He did, however, call us to fight injustice...

I could leave it there. After all, this was supposed to be an essay about slash fiction, not about gay rights. However, if you've suffered condemnation for enjoying slash, and if it's left you feeling crushed, worthless, desolate, then consider this: this is what gay people go through all of their lives.

Straight women who like slash can do it in secret. We can fit into society and no one will ever know. But gay people who want to live together in love - something the Bible does not condemn - cannot. If we don't speak up, we won't have to face the terrible, soul-destroying hatred of our fellow Christians. But gay people cannot get away from it.

This is wrong. This is a terrible injustice being perpetrated by Christians on innocent people, and we should not stand for it. While there is doubt that the Bible condemns homosexuality at all, how can we condone our churches telling people they are outcast, damned - in rebellion against God? It is appalling.

If you are a slash reader, then you are lucky enough to know in a minor way what it feels like. Let's take that sympathy and try to change people's attitudes in the Church about gay people, opposing hatred, sure in the knowledge that God is love.

If you are anti-slash, then consider this; the Pharisees believed that they could become holy by obeying all the laws in their Bible. Did Jesus praise them for that? No, he condemned them for cold-heartedness, for using those laws to make people suffer - for keeping people away from God. Jesus treated lepers, and women, adulteresses and thieves with kindness and acceptance. God sent Phillip to the Ethiopian eunuch (a class of men famous for having sex with other men), and Phillip baptized him without saying a word of condemnation.

Please, take these as your models, and remember that even if homosexuality *is* a sin (which it is not), we are all sinners. The next time you are tempted to write a review saying 'this is disgusting, you ought to be ashamed of yourself!' remember what Jesus said, and before you try to take the speck out of your brother's eye, first take the plank out of your own.



I realize that in the case of this community it's probably preaching to the converted, of course ;)

Edit on 26th January: I got told about this website Whosoever Magazine (A magazine for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Christians) and thought it would be a very useful resource to put on here for those who couldn't get the books or wanted to find a community for a bit of support. Many thanks to [info]cptjacksavvy for the link.)



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[info]blackjackrocket
2005-01-21 11:03 am UTC (link)
VERY nice! You know, I think [info]yaoi, [info]green_stripe, and [info]gaystr8alliance may be interested in reading this.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-21 11:54 am UTC (link)
Fabulous links, thanks! I can see I'm going to spend ages going through the backlists and archives of these - not to mention joining. Ta!

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(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2005-01-21 12:01 pm UTC

[info]shatterglass
2005-01-21 11:34 am UTC (link)
Good essay. Thank you for sharing it. -favorites-

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-21 12:01 pm UTC (link)
Thank *you*. I was beginning to worry that it was too out of line to get a hearing anywhere except my own LJ - and that's too much like talking to yourself ;)

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[info]raggedrose
2005-01-21 12:14 pm UTC (link)
It's like the fiddly bits around the fjords. Someone had to write this, someone who has the necessary background to do so. People with unexamined prejudices need to be refuted kindly, logically, and with relevant arguments. You did a great job.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-21 01:18 pm UTC (link)
LOL! Call me Slartibartfast :) Yes, I suppose I'm lucky to have a foot in both camps - thus forced to do the research and look at the evidence. Needless to say, though, it came as a great relief to find the evidence supported sense and compassion rather than condemnation. I'm really glad you thought it worked. Thanks!

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[info]sailormac
2005-01-21 12:55 pm UTC (link)
This was beautifully done -- well-researched, well-thought out and very thought-provoking. I think you could change some minds on both sides of the fence with this -- conservative Christians who would blanket-condemn gays and slash, *and* slash fans who would blanket-condemn all Christians for being intolerant. Thank you for writing this.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-21 01:27 pm UTC (link)
I think you could change some minds on both sides of the fence with this

Oh I hope so! It was mostly aimed at helping people like me who were going down in a pit of self hatred, but if it could even change a couple of minds on either side it would be more than I'd hoped. Thank you :)

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LJ ate my comment
[info]miyuki_mina
2005-01-21 01:25 pm UTC (link)
Two words:

Thank. You.

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Re: LJ ate my comment
[info]galadhir
2005-01-21 01:30 pm UTC (link)
Wow! Big words :) Big grin of happiness in return, only in small sized text :D

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[info]aesc
2005-01-21 01:45 pm UTC (link)
Lovely, rational piece.

I myself am lapsed in formal observance of Christianity, mostly because those who taught me committed the errors of interpretation you refuted above, and I could never reconcile my personal beliefs with those forced on me by others in my church. Your essay is a reminder to all that tolerance and understanding (if not approval) are Godly qualities; hatred, condemnation, and blind prejudice are not.

*gives you the Chaucer icon in approval*

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-21 02:09 pm UTC (link)
I love the Chaucer icon. It gets funnier the longer I look at it.

Yes, I think this is a really big deal for the Church. If this Biblical scholarship has been out there for 30 odd years (one of the books I got was published in 1970ish) then why the hell haven't we been told it before? I think it's appalling. When the Church becomes an instrument of hatred and oppression, then something's clearly not right.

I'm fortunate to belong to a fairly liberal church - so I'll be able to stay and argue it from within. But it's come to something when people with a conscience and compassion have got to leave! *indignant*

Anyway, thanks!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aesc, 2005-01-22 10:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]galadhir, 2005-01-22 02:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aesc, 2005-01-22 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]galadhir, 2005-01-23 12:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wliberation, 2005-01-24 08:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]galadhir, 2005-01-24 12:09 pm UTC

[info]zorayda
2005-01-21 03:07 pm UTC (link)
Thank you. I needed this. *adds to memories*

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 03:53 am UTC (link)
Yay! I'm made up that it helped. Thank you.

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[info]drkcherry
2005-01-21 03:24 pm UTC (link)
That, my dear, was an excellent post.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 03:55 am UTC (link)
Thanks!

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[info]raspberry_moon
2005-01-21 03:49 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much for this post. It put in eloquent words what I believe about being a Christian and a slasher. ::puts in memories::

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 03:59 am UTC (link)
Thank you! Sometimes it feels like it would be so much easier to give one or the other up. I was enormously relieved when I discovered there was enough evidence to reconcile both :)

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[info]morgaine9
2005-01-21 04:10 pm UTC (link)
Nicely done! I myself do not align myself with any religion. That's not to say that I think those who have found their religion or beliefs are wrong, it simply means that I have not found one that encompases or accepts all of my beliefs. And in case anyone cares/is wondering, I am heterosexual. With that said:

I'm very happy to see that someone has taken the time to write something like this. I believe that all (non-adulterous) love and/or sex, het or not, is beautiful. If two people are happy together, let them be happy! Which brings me to the issue of slash - it's fine! Actually, some of the best stories I've read and best shows that I've seen involve slash! I find it hard to comprehend how anyone could think that their God would be against two people being together, especially when they preach love and compassion.

Well done!

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:20 am UTC (link)
Thanks, Morgaine. I guess I could say that Christianity chose me rather than the other way round - I had a sort of 'road to Damascus' conversion experience (20-odd years ago now - sheesh I'm old!). Previous to that I'd gone from atheism to paganism.

So I tend to have the perspective of someone who's come to the faith from the outside - I didn't grow up believing. I think that helps. When you've grown up believing something, it's easy to carry on thinking of it as just obvious; something that everyone knows. I think that's the position many anti-slash, anti-gay Christians are in - they've never really been faced with any conflicting views or evidence. Never been forced to examine their views.

I hope that's the case, anyway. I would hate to think anyone could simultaneously genuinely believe that love is the nature of God, but that God hates gays.

Oh, who am I kidding - some people clearly *do* believe that. But I'm with you in finding it incomprehensible.

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[info]chibi_tensai
2005-01-21 04:11 pm UTC (link)
*APPLAUSE*

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:21 am UTC (link)
Thanks!

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[info]lattebayo
2005-01-21 04:15 pm UTC (link)
I heart you so bad for writing all this. You know what you're talking about, understand what it's like to be shunned (in lack of a better word) for liking slash, and can write very well.

Thank you. ♥

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:34 am UTC (link)
Thank you :) Yeah, shunned is the wrong word only because it doesn't convey the full unpleasentness of the situation. I can't think of a better one though, unless it's 'abominated'.

However I expect that the person who was most 'disappointed' in me did not imagine that her criticism would cause me to really think through my position, come out in support of slash and decide it was about time I started working for gay rights. Poor woman, she'd be appalled!

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[info]maeglinyedi
2005-01-21 04:39 pm UTC (link)
I'm not a Christian, but I thought this was a very interesting, well-done essay. Thanks for posting it.

And do you mind if I link to it on [info]daily_snitch? (That's a HP fandom newsletter).

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:40 am UTC (link)
Glad you liked it. Hopefully it helps to explain a little about why Christians have such an issue with slash - and that can only lead to more informed debate.

I would be immensely grateful if you linked to it! AFAIK most Christians are not aware at all about the Biblical Scholarship which is now undercutting any anti-gay stand. If all people get out of the essay is the reading list, it will be wonderful. Thank you!

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(no subject) - [info]maeglinyedi, 2005-01-23 09:34 am UTC

[info]dawnsshadow
2005-01-21 04:43 pm UTC (link)
This is the sort of thing that I think everyone needs to hear. Well researched, excellent points and facts, and definitely convincing. I've also felt the pressures of religion versus personal beliefs on sexuality, and this just makes me feel warm and fluffy inside.

Thank you so very, very much. ^_^ ♥

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:55 am UTC (link)
Thanks! I know what you mean. When I got the Helminak book it rocked my world-view and filled me with gratitude, and anger. Gratitude because it proved that God wasn't horrible, and anger because - why hadn't I heard it before? Why isn't the Church putting its money where its mouth is and seizing the chance to preach compassion and love instead of hate?

But anyway, it made me feel lots better. I'm glad to hear it did the same for you :)

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[info]palais
2005-01-21 04:54 pm UTC (link)
Well-done. You know your facts.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:56 am UTC (link)
Thanks!

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[info]skalja
2005-01-21 04:56 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 04:56 am UTC (link)
And back at you :)

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[info]thexsadist
2005-01-21 04:58 pm UTC (link)
I agree with dawnsshadow.
This is something that everyone needs to hear,whether they like it or not.God does not condemn those true to themselves,and I think that religious people who just get bile in their mouths from the mere thought of two men or women being together need to quit being sticks in the mud and taking it to a whole 'nother level.God does not judge on who you love,but how you love them (whether you are a good spouse,cheated on them,tell lies,ect.) People just think the worst and make Him out to be hateful to things that He is perfectly fine with.

If your work was published,I would probably be one of the hundred thousands that would buy it.Though,myself,I am not full Christian (unless...there is such thing as a half Buddhist,half Christian which is what I really am) I have felt pressures on myself because I do like slash and yaoi.

This really made me feel better.To know that something I like,and what alot of other people like isn't wrong just makes it all the better to enjoy.Thank you for writing this.Hopefully,others will be enlightened with your work.Someday,the word will spread and the true representation of Jesus and God will make it's way back into our black & white world.
Thank you.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 05:37 am UTC (link)
People just think the worst and make Him out to be hateful to things that He is perfectly fine with.

Yes. To me, that's almost worse than the amount of human suffering that anti-gay prejudice creates, because not only does it hurt gays (and indirectly women who are involved in slash) but it also makes God out to be something that he isn't, so even people for whom their sexuality isn't an issue end up thinking God is horrible and judgemental, and their religion is a set of oppressive rules that they have to make themselves neurotic following. And God's *not* like that.

I didn't want to make the essay too long, or I would have put in the bit about Jesus meeting the Centurian whose servant was sick - how the language used implies that the servant was the Centurian's gay lover - and Jesus (who would have known this, of course) heals the servant and praises the Centurian for having greater faith than anyone in Israel.

When I read that I thought 'Yes!' That's the Jesus I recognise - that's him acting in character, utterly consistently with how he treated all the other outcasts of his day - like women. But it seems the teachings didn't survive the first century after he was gone. They got 'forgotten' or distorted, like the teaching that men and women were equal.

Someday,the word will spread and the true representation of Jesus and God will make it's way back into our black & white world. I hope so! Lets push it along, if we can ;)

I'm really glad it made you feel better. That's why it was written. It made me feel better finding this stuff out, and I thought I'd share the relief. Thanks!

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[info]moonlitstairway
2005-01-21 06:56 pm UTC (link)
Definantly well informed. As president of my school's Gay-Staight-Alliance, and straight person myself, hats off to you pal.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 05:41 am UTC (link)
Thanks! I'll be joining my own local Gay-Staight-Alliance just as soon as I find out where it is, or whether there is one. (I live in suburban England) But in the meantime I've joined the LJ one. Cheers to you and all your good work.

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(no subject) - [info]schnoogles, 2005-01-23 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]galadhir, 2005-01-24 02:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schnoogles, 2005-01-24 04:17 pm UTC

[info]glimmerfade
2005-01-21 06:59 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much for writing this. I've been having trouble with my own sexuality for the past few years--My family is Indian Catholic (which is practically an oxymoron)--and they want to "preserve the faith in me" and all of that. They hate homosexuality, as do nearly all of my peers, and I've been struggling with this constant self-hate, because everyone describes homosexuals as sinners and sexual predators. I wouldn't consider myself a Christian (my parents have maligned religion far too much for me to ever go down that path), but this essay really gave me some hope. Thank you ever so much. :)

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 06:20 am UTC (link)
Thank you so much! Really I wrote the essay to help people going through this kind of appalling treatment at the hands of Christians. My experience was that I prayed a lot, and that really helped, because I never got the condemnation from God that I got from people. But what really gave me confidence was finding out that the anti-gay people do not have the Bible behind them.

Can I recommend that you get the Helminiak book, and also 'The Children are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships'
by Jeff Miner

The Helminiak book puts the arguments in really clear form, but mostly appeals intellectually. The Miner book is slightly less scholarly, but includes the fantastic *positive* depictions of same sex relationships in the Bible - such as Jesus meeting the Centurian (whose servant was probably his lover), and God sending Phillip out to the eunuch. I found the Miner book incredibly affirming - it made me cry in fact, in relief at finding out that the hate was wrong, and the Bible actually could be shown to affirm same sex relationships.

You can get both of them from Amazon.com
The Children are Free'

What the Bible really says...

It probably won't change your family's minds - prejudice is hard to dislodge - but it'll certainly help you when you know that both God and reason are on your side.

Don't let them grind you down!

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[info]alerted
2005-01-21 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I love you. o_o

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 06:21 am UTC (link)
LOL! Thanks!

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(no subject) - [info]alerted, 2005-01-24 09:19 pm UTC

[info]starsniper
2005-01-21 09:14 pm UTC (link)
Beautiful. Simply beautiful, I think you brought up a very good point here. I am lucky enough to have not run into anyone who condemns homosexuality, besides one of my friends but she just find it disturbing, and accepts it anyway, she shall change eventually ^^ Where I am, being gay is an amusement factor :P Still, beautiful and I shall spread the word of yours essay ^____^




~Seiya

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 11:21 am UTC (link)
Thanks, Starsniper! I don't know whether I've ever met a real live person who disapproved of gays - it's mostly been on the internet. It may be because it's not a topic I've tended to raise in RL. I'll have to see if that changes now I'm watching for it ;)

I shall spread the word of yours essay Yay! Please do, that would be great!

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[info]prettyarbitrary
2005-01-21 09:43 pm UTC (link)
Yes! Brilliant! I'm quite Christian myself, and straight, and this is something I wondered about for a while after I started reading slash. But then I realized that I didn't actually feel like anything was wrong with it. And I realized at the same time that I didn't feel like anything was wrong with homosexuality, either.

Even so, I learned quite a bit from your essay. I hadn't realized that the Bible doesn't actually condemn homosexuality. I had just assumed that after all the imperfections I'd discovered, the Bible couldn't be dead-on about everything! But it turns out, it's our interpretation that's off, after all.

I'm Protestant, so I'm not in a position to talk about 'the Church' as if there's a single monolithic entity out there, telling all of us how to think. In the end, Christianity's true existence lies in those of us who believe in that religion, and I have faith that eventually, we'll come to our collective senses--especially with people like you on the job!

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 12:23 pm UTC (link)
Cute Cthulu! I love it :) Yes, it was that saying about the Holy Spirit writing his law on our hearts that gave me enough confidence to take my own feelings into account as part of the evidence.

The main problem with that, of course, is that there are a lot of people who genuinely feel that homosexuality *is* wrong - whether that's a natural squick response reinforced by what they've been taught all their lives, or not, feelings are kind of hard to argue with either way. So for me it was necessary to have the evidence before I could trust my feelings. Besides, it makes good ammunition to wade into the argument with ;)

I'm Protestant too. Church of England, infact. When I say 'the Church' I mean 'the body of all Christian believers' - whatever denomination they come from - but I can see I haven't exactly made that clear. I hope eventually we all will come to our senses and learn to obey our consciences like you. Thank you!

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(no subject) - [info]prettyarbitrary, 2005-01-22 01:42 pm UTC

[info]teffy
2005-01-21 10:35 pm UTC (link)
You are awesome. That was so wonderful to read.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 12:26 pm UTC (link)
I'm not! I just put the facts together - I think the praise should go to the scholars who dug this information out of the general prejudice in the first place. But I'm very glad you liked it, thanks!

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[info]sparkythehamstr
2005-01-21 10:56 pm UTC (link)
Wow. Thanks. :)

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 12:28 pm UTC (link)
Thank *you*!

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[info]kyuuketsukirui
2005-01-22 12:30 am UTC (link)
What a wonderful essay. Thank you for writing this.

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[info]galadhir
2005-01-22 12:31 pm UTC (link)
Not a problem ;) I just really hope it will help. Thanks!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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