when in doubt, quote Swinburne ([info]tainted4life) wrote in [info]ship_manifesto,
@ 2006-03-01 08:51:00
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Entry tags:#game, final fantasy

Vincent/Yuffie (Final Fantasy VII, FFVII: Advent Children, FFVII: Dirge of Cerberus)
Title: Seasons of Sun and Snow
Author: Kath (tainted4life, known as Nagia on FF.Net)
Pairing: Vincent Valentine/Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII, Advent Children, SOME Dirge of Cerberus)
Spoilers: The game. Aaaaaall of it. And Advent Children— all of it. And a bit of Dirge of Cerberus.
Warnings: Well, the perceived age difference can be squicky, and the state of fandom seems to be such that het squicks people. Aside from that, it's all just spoilers. And footnotes.
Additional notes: This essay's title and all segment titles taken from Algernon Charles Swinburne's The Triumph of Time. Also, thanks to [info]farononstarwolf and [info]cheloya for their help.



I: as this to me (or, the characters)


"...boring story number one!" -- Yuffie Kisaragi

Vincent Valentine's story isn't actually boring. Tragic? Yes. Old? Yes. Incredibly melodramatic and just totally nuts? Oh absolutely. But that story, while important to understanding Vincent, isn't the focus of this particular section.

Quick facts about Vincent Valentine: he's quiet, he used to be a Turk (read: Professional Psycho-/Sociopath With A Gun), he has four demons living in his head, he was in love with a woman who didn't love him back and later died, and he has self-blame issues the size of Russia.

At the beginning of FF7, Vincent was quiet, reserved. He didn't say much, and when he DID talk, it was in this Dracula-wannabe "woe is me oh my ANGST" sort of thing. But as the game progressed, Vincent loosened up. He began to crack jokes— really corny jokes, at that. He became more positive.

And lo, all the fangirls rejoiced, for Vincent was showing signs of recovery.

But by Advent Children, Vincent is back in his angstbucket kick. He tells Cloud, when speaking of searching for redemption, "I've never tried." He is the one who knows what's going on, and yet he is blind to his own good sides.

Dirge of Cerberus shows no signs of stopping the angstbucket trend, though from the FMVs I've seen, he definitely loosens up a bit towards the end— again.

To sum Vincent up: quiet, messed up in the head, starting to come out of his shell, and he's the poster child for "it's not a combination of schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder if the voices are real."


"I feel as though I have seen her somewhere before..." -- Vincent Valentine

Yuffie Kisaragi is a person who is hard, extremely hard, to forget. She's tiny, fierce, clever, cheerful, hyper, and impulsive. In short, she's about as "loosened-up" as most people are ever likely to get without having a lobotomy1.

In FF7, she was somewhat bratty, cheerfully robbed people, and was a very tough, and often irritating, little girl. She got motion sick and grumbled and complained. But she had her good sides: she was innovative, she was externally better adjusted than most of AVALANCHE, she was energetic. Her best point was her love for Wutai.

In Advent Children, the girl who stole from AVALANCHE, who got motion sick, who kicked butt and took names? She came back. And she was better than ever. She was still motion sick, she was still exuberant, she still loved Wutai2, and she still loved her shiny things (namely, Materia).

Summing Yuffie up: loud, vibrant, short, talks big, clever, LOVES WUTAI WITH A BURNING LOVE, can steal like whoah, and energetic as all get out.

II: We had grown as gods (or, canon interaction)

When speaking of canon interaction outside of Dirge of Cerberus, there is almost none. In FF7, Vincent and Yuffie were optional characters. They didn't make it into any of the FMVs, and most of their lines were slight variations on the generic.

In fact, there are really only two scenes where Vincent and Yuffie interact and talk with or about each other.

The first is when they meet— in either direction. If you get Yuffie before Vincent, she will complain to him that his history is boring3. If you get Vincent before Yuffie, upon meeting her, he will remark that she seems familiar.

The second incident is the Materia Theft Incident. This incident is a major characterization moment for Yuffie. It's how we know how much she loves Wutai: enough to steal for it. She is willing to do something that could be considered a few steps away from murder... In order to save her country.

Vincent's reaction is just as interesting as Yuffie's actions. It could be interpreted in several different ways.

VINCENT (to CLOUD, about YUFFIE): Unforgivable.

He is angry with Yuffie. Possibly disappointed in her. Is he possibly even... hurt?

We can't know for sure. This game wasn't released on technology that could show facial expressions.

The fan author has to decide for him-/herself how to interpret that.

Unfortunately for the author, Advent Children is equally empty of conversations between Vincent and Yuffie. It's Cloud's story. The one time they interact in Advent Children, it is in a group scene, and Vincent and Yuffie are playing their roles. Vincent is being mysterious, aloof, and entirely too knowledgeable for comfort. Yuffie is distractible, hyper, and immature.

There isn't a lot of basis for shipping here, is there? No subtext. No in-game text.

Most of this pairing is conjectured interaction.

Right up until Dirge of Cerberus.

From the opening right up to the ending, every Yuffie-involving FMV I have seen, has hinted at some sort of bond between them. They're friends.

In one very, very note-worthy clip4, Yuffie becomes flustered. Twice. In both cases, Vincent has either shown concern or thanked her.

Even these minimal bits of Dirge of Cerberus makes it quite clear: Yuffie is interested in Vincent5

Does Vincent return the interest?

That's up to the author.

III: halves of a perfect heart, made fast (or, not exactly a case of opposites attract)

Opposites? They're not opposites. That's the entire point of this pairing, for me. They are different on the surface, they go about things in different ways, but they really are two sides of one coin.

I've already written an essay about this6, but it all boils down to one thing.

They both need people desperately. And people push both of them away.

Yuffie is too loud. Vincent is too quiet. Yuffie is bratty and selfish. Vincent is creepy and self-flagellating.

People tend to avoid them, when people avoiding them is the last thing they need.

IV: I have hidden my soul out of sight (or, my take on this)

Obviously, I'm pro. I like VY (also known as Yuffentine).

I see in this couple a beautiful friendship. Any interactions at all between them intrigue me. Whether they'll "argue" or discuss things or merrily pretend that the other doesn't exist, you have to admit that locking them in a small room for an hour will produce interesting results.

It doesn't matter to me if Yuffie and Vincent are just friends, or if they almost have a romantic relationship, or if they get married or whatever. The interactions and contrasts between the two interest me.

I don't think either of them really knows how to handle the other. They're different enough that approaching each other doesn't really work. Yuffie gets distracted, Vincent gets irritated, Yuffie gets bored, Vincent clams up, Yuffie tries to pry him out, Vincent goes back to being irritated.

You just sort of have to love 'em together. Their relationship isn't going to be easy, but it's going to be fun and hilarious and rewarding7.

That's what's so great about it.

V: You have chosen and clung to the chance they sent you (or, contra)

Not convinced? Well, here are some of my anti-anti-arguments.

1. It's pedophilia.

Um, no. In some states of the USA and in many countries, 16 is the age of consent. Not only that, but most VY fic is post-game, and Yuffie's canon age is about 18-19 right now.

Vincent is at least twenty years older than every character in the game, with the possible exceptions of Gorky, Staniv, Godo, Hojo, Bugenhagen and Red (who doesn't count, because he is emotionally something like fifteen).

Pairing him with Sephiroth is STILL an icky age difference. Same for Cloud, Cid, Tifa, Reeve, Aeris, and anyone else you can think of.

Another thing you might want to consider is the fact that Vincent's mental age, when he comes out of the coffin, is still somewhere around 27. He spent thirty or so years in a coffin. There may have been introspection of some sort, but there was obviously almost no growth.

Not only that, but Vincent seems pretty immature. He is taking blame onto himself, in order to avoid responsibility. He whines and he bitches and he moans about his "sins", but he never tries to be forgiven. He never does anything about it8.

Yuffie, on the other hand, is mature enough to see that she can't change the past. She can't take back what Sephiroth or ShinRa or her father did. So instead, she channels her energy into fixing it. She doesn't angst. She doesn't bullshit herself or anybody else.

Which of them is more mature, here?

2. There is no basis for it in the game.

I've already addressed this. There's no basis in FF7 or AC, but Dirge of Cerberus shows at LEAST a one-sided Yuffie/Vincent, and Vincent/Yuffie is totally possible.

3. It weakens Yuffie.

No, it really doesn't. Being involved with another person does NOT weaken you. Get out of your cave.

Yuffie would have to be strong in order to deal with Vincent's angstmuffin tendencies. She'd have to be strong not to be continually hurt by Vincent's closed-mouthed-ness. She'd have to be strong not to just give up and wander away to go snog with some starry-eyed Wutaian boy who worships her9.

4. But what about Lucrecia?

The woman is dead, firstly. And secondly, Lucrecia never loved Vincent. No, really. The new Ultimania guide has a pink arrow from Vincent to Lucrecia, saying "Unattainable Love".

Vincent needs to wake up and see that Lucrecia wasn't perfect.

Now, can Vincent recover from Lucrecia? It's entirely possible. And while I wouldn't recommend Vincent finding another girlfriend in order to do so, I don't think that Vincent will get over Lucrecia without seeing the truth about her. And he's not going to see the truth about Lucrecia until somebody shows it to him. Repeatedly.

VI: The strong sea-daisies feast on the sun (or, recs and resources)

Fics:

The Classic Recs:

Sink To the Bottom With You, by Catalina. The longest and best-known of the good VY fic. Sadly, it's incomplete, and it's moving very, very slowly.
Faith and Feather, by Rose Flame. One of the best-known Yuffentine fics out there. An absolute classic. Incomplete, massively long, and an awesome read.
Sunshine in Winter, by Guardian1. Guaranteed to make you CRY LIKE BABY! Another classic. This is, seriously, like the VY manifesto in and of itself: everything in this pairing that could possibly go horribly wrong goes horribly right...
Growth + Autumn Song, by Enkida. Again, these made me cry. Beautiful.
Learning How to Breathe, by Faronon Star Wolf. I may be a bit biased, but here it is anyway. It's hilarious. Yuffie and Vincent are PERFECT.

The Cream of the Crop:

But That Was In Another Country, by Guardian1 Guardian1 just writes things that make me cry. This is actually a fic exploring how the FFVII world got sucked into Kingdom Hearts. Gorgeous.
Landslide, by Enkida. Again with the hilarious. It's my guilty pleasure, but oh, WHAT a guilty pleasure!
Tamatebako, by Karasu Kurokiba. Amazing. Delirious. Evocative. Yuffie is brilliant. This whole fic is brilliant.
Break all the Porcelain, by Karasu Kurokiba. Again with the amazing and evocative. The description is gorgeous, the narrator was a stroke of genius, and it's just lovely.

Forums:

Yuffentine (FF.Net): http://www.fanfiction.net/ft/561244/2837/1/
Sunshine in Winter (AC.Net Forums): http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?t=9651

Mailing Lists
Fort_Yuffentine - Extremely, extremely quiet.
Yuffentine_fanfiction - also pretty quiet. There was recently a lively discussion about Squiffie vs Yuffentine, and how Yuffentine compares to other pairings....


Livejournal Communities:
[info]yuffentine
[info]deadbfsociety (pro-Aurikku)

My Other Essays:
Why I Like VY At All: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tainted4life/281308.html
Why I Like it Better Than VT: http://tainted4life.livejournal.com/238206.html





Footnotes!
I -- II III -- IV -- V -- VI
1 This entire paragraph is a HUGE understatement.
2 The first time Yuffie enters Advent Children, she is calling Cloud about disappearances of children in Wutai.
3 Don't misinterpret this-- Yuffie could have all SORTS of interesting reasons for saying this. A lot of what Yuffie says is deceptive if taken fully at face value. Don't forget: she's a liar and a thief.
4 This one, translation here, under a "SPOILER" cut.
5 I win.
6 Right here
7 and Reeve would totally take pictures and use them for blackmail.
8 Part of this may come from the fact that he doesn't think he can be forgiven. It's still angsty and immature and he needs somebody to kick him in the teeth and bring the truth to his attention.
9 and would appreciate her for the goddess she is.



(Post a new comment)


[info]sakupyoncandy
2006-03-01 03:44 pm UTC (link)
...I'm very amused at the screenshot of Yuffie. XD

(Reply to this)


[info]green_and_warty
2006-03-01 04:00 pm UTC (link)
Holy crap, how am I being convinced? You're good. Or I don't think enough. ... and I enjoy reading your links, too. ..Now that I am thinking, I also think, and hey, they're both morally ambiguous! Thief/Turk.

I am seriously impressed. A little disturbed, but in a very good way.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2006-03-01 04:16 pm UTC (link)
That's actually in another of my essays.... But I didn't want to go around, like, quoting myself.

And I'm glad I'm tempting you to the dark side. I'll say one thing: Vincent/Yuffie makes for great lemons.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mimi_sardinia
2006-03-02 10:03 am UTC (link)
This is good, and the other two essays of yours are good too.

Love that FMV, Yuffie is so cute in it (I have only seen a very short snipet of it before, in the DoC trailer).

And Reeve would so take pictures - or at least get Cait to do it.

(Reply to this)


[info]chocolaticida
2006-03-07 01:04 am UTC (link)
I've been waiting so long for somebody to make an essay of this two!! *__* thank you for doing it~ TuT It's really well done ^^
And there's one rec I haven't read *---*!!!
*hands virtual cookie* you win! x)

[Excuse my poor english u.uUu I can read easily, but write... x_xUu)

(Reply to this)


[info]kaiousei
2006-03-07 08:53 am UTC (link)
My first time coming into this community and I see your essay there. Thinking "hey, I've always rolled my eyes at this pairing, so this should be interesting", I decided to go ahead and read it and I'm quite quite surprised how well you sold me.

And by 'sold' I mean I'll probably never ship the pairing, ever, but at least I sorta get where they're coming from. With a pair with such slight canonical interaction, I'm impressed you made it into such a convincing arguement. I'm gonna go have to read those fics now, just because.

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[info]cephiedvariable
2006-03-22 05:49 am UTC (link)
PSST! Guardian1 is the chick who wrote 'Go Not Gently'. XD If she can sell me on angsty, morally bankrupt Vivi/Eiko (even if only for one fic), she could probably sell you Vincent/Yuffie heck, I bet she could sell you Amarant/Freya if you weren't so utterly morally opposed to the idea.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]annwyd
2006-03-08 08:35 am UTC (link)
I've always hated this pairing--it strikes me as, for one, a leftover pairing, and for another, it seems to appeal to the same sort of person as Aurikku (which is far worse) does: "teehee Vincent is so badass and handsome and I totally identify with Yuffie, so let's pair them up, it'd be almost like me getting Vincent! KAWAII!!! *___*"

However, you make a fairly good argument for how it can be done without being that moronic. As a Vincent fan, I especially like the willingness to point out his flaws...even if it is coming from someone who dislikes Vincent. At least you're willing to give him a fair evaluation. (And my hate for turning Vincent/Lucrecia, which I've actually always perceived as Vincent-->Lucrecia, into perfect fluff rather exceeds my hate for Vincent/Yuffie. At least Vincent/Yuffie is not outright contradicted by the canon; fluffy Vincent/Lucrecia is. So I'm glad to see you pointing out evidence that his love for her was one-sided.)

As for actually converting me? Nah, I'm still too annoyed with the fandom, and I dislike leftover 'ships in general--but if Dirge of Cerberus shows them interacting well, maybe. I'll have to wait and see.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2006-03-08 04:44 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the essay.

But would you perhaps explain what you mean by "leftover pairing"? As in, pairing the leftover characters?

Because if that's the case, then I'm not that way at all-- Cloud/Tifa, Barret/Elmyra, Cid/Shera... Those are all the leftover pairings to me. Yuffie, Reeve, and Vincent are my favourite characters after all, and I far prefer to write their interactions.

And certainly not all VYers feel that way-- about the identifying with Yuffie and wanting Vincnet-- just the dumber ones. And yes, we have a lot of duumb fans, but have you checked out the CloTi Versus Cleris wars lately? FFVII has.... entirely too many stupid people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]annwyd
2006-03-08 09:58 pm UTC (link)
That's pretty much what I meant by leftover pairing--a lot of fans feel the need to take characters who aren't paired up in one way or another at the end of a game/series/whatever and slap them together. Vincent and Yuffie are the optional characters, therefore omgtheyaremadeforeachother as far as leftover pairings go! Hurray! -_-

Not saying that's why you pair them up--obviously you've put more thought into it than that. Just explaining some of my bias against the fandom. And of course there's plenty of stupidity in other pairing fandoms as well. I personally stay out of pairing fandom entirely in FFVII, although I have a fondness for a Vincent/Tseng/Elena threesome after the events of AC. Fortunately I seem to be about the only one so far, so there's no wank associated with it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2006-03-09 05:00 am UTC (link)
Ahhh. That could be a very fun threesome... If you've written aught for it, I'd love a link.

'course my own threesome is Reeve/Yuffie/Vincent, because Vincent can never have too many cheerful influences in his bed coffin life.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]annwyd
2006-03-09 05:11 am UTC (link)
I haven't written anything for those three yet--although I have the occasional idea--but I did write some platonic Vincent and Tseng interaction before AC came out.

Hah, Reeve/Yuffie/Vincent could be very entertaining. Reeve and Yuffie together could overpower Vincent and toss out his emo playlists and make him listen to cheesy pop D:

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2006-03-09 05:37 am UTC (link)
That fic you linked me to was gorgeous, and I'd totally read any Vincent/Elena/Tseng (or however you like to mix them up) you wrote. It would be awesome.

As for Reeve/Yuffie/Vincent, it would totally change his life. Forever. They'd make him listen to cheerful pop classics-- like Sugar Sugar and Lovemedo and I'm a Believer. ...actually, they'd probably just encourage him to listen to oldies.

He'd never know what hit him...

Oh, and I think you've got me wrong. It's not that I don't like Vincent. It's that I like to make fun of him, and I don't like him as much as I like Yuffie.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]annwyd
2006-03-09 05:52 am UTC (link)
And then he'd wake up one morning with rainbows on his cape.

Oh, and I think you've got me wrong. It's not that I don't like Vincent. It's that I like to make fun of him, and I don't like him as much as I like Yuffie.

Ah, okay. I thought I saw you mention something on another community where you were defending Yuffie about how you didn't like Vincent, but I must be remembering wrong. I see nothing wrong with making fun of Vincent--he pretty much begs for it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2006-03-09 06:40 am UTC (link)
And then he'd wake up one morning with rainbows on his cape.

And hearts and stars and smiley faces. Don't forget the smiley faces.

I'm rather hard on Vincent. You probably got that impression from one of my FFRants posts or something...

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[info]shahrizai
2006-03-17 11:55 pm UTC (link)
But like 90% of FF couplings are leftover shipping then. It leaves a very narrow chance for fic, if you don't like Square's stereotypical male and female protagonists.

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[info]cherrybomb
2006-08-07 06:10 am UTC (link)
The leftover pairing theory works best probably with FFX: People go "Tidus/Yuna, Wakka/Lulu... AH! Auron/Rikku!"

Vincent/Yuffie is just the FF7 equivalent. Though you can also take it as leftover meaning that they're the optional characters and really more of leftovers in that sense.

I'm more of a Hero/Thief fan myself, I think the whole "leftover pairing" theory is just one of the things we use to try to figure out the logic behind liking Hot Old Undead Guy/Thief.

Though there doesnt have to be logic behind liking something.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]kenzier
2006-10-08 11:40 am UTC (link)
Footnote 5, is teh win. And, God, am I late commenting on this.

I'm assuming you're reading tergiversation. How are you feeling it?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2006-10-08 01:21 pm UTC (link)
Thank you! Yeah, I had to keep a little humour for these two. Otherwise, I'd be crazy.

Hm, tergiversation... I probably am, but it's not ringing any bells right now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dia_aren_marie
2007-05-30 12:29 pm UTC (link)
I was totally thinking of Sunshine in Winter when I saw this~

While I'm not like a hardcore OMG OTP person NOR someone who hates the pairing (since I don't really like... 100% ship/support specific couples, especially in FF7, I just, like them, or am neutral, y'know?) I lean more on the 'like' side, particularly because of that fic. You make good points here I didn't see before, though :O It's really kind of hard to come out (for me) about liking Vincent/Yuffie, at least if done well (like said fanfic) since all my friends seem to hate it and anybody who touches it. Which makes me sad :( (Meanwhile, they pair up all the guys... and I don't quite know what to say to that. That's pretty wtf too, right? D8/)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tainted4life
2007-05-30 09:06 pm UTC (link)
Sunshine in Winter is a classic for a reason, heh.

As for "coming out" about liking VY, why not mention that EVERY pairing--including all the slash--is full of stark-mad, raving fanbrats, and that fandom is not the end of the universe? Hating somebody over a pairing is about four different kinds of ridiculous.

As for slash being WTF... If you aren't new, I'm sorry for sounding condescending, but are you new to fandom? It's ALL slash, or so it feels sometimes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]dia_aren_marie
2007-06-01 01:33 am UTC (link)
Haha, that's quite true really, fanbrats are everywhere. XD Oh well. (It'd be like hating someone for preferring a chocolate bar over a vanilla bar. Mmm, chocovanilla...)

And no~ XD I've been in fandom for years and I don't mind slash itself (I have a few slash pairings, myself! Although they're all from obscure series...~) I just find it funny people go "OMG THAT WOULD NEVER WORK" at het pairings but go saying a slash pairing is "such and such is OTP~!" even if the personalities are like, exactly the same. Like ya said, fanbrats. Everywhere. XD Haha, I'm sorry if I worded that wrong or something and made it sound like I'm against/don't like slash!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Oh god, me too!
[info]foxygirlchan
2008-06-28 09:52 am UTC (link)
I know you posted this a long time ago, but gosh you're in the same situation as I am/was!

I could barely say my favorite couples, especially with my fanbrat friends. x_x

But I came out about it, and am made fun for it, but y'know what? I'm happy.

Anywho, just felt like relating with you. xD;

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rosencrantz
2007-09-20 12:21 am UTC (link)
Hey! I just saw this. I'm a big fan of your fiction too, you write hilarious stuff. :)

Anyway you might want to know that I've made Growth into a comic, too, and it's reaching it's 300th page this Friday. Oh, and also that it has +1 to chapters that the fanfic version does not. That extra chappy ain't published yet though, heh.

Ah, uh. Yeah, my ff.net handle is "enkida" in case that wasn't clear enough. :-)

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[info]psychedelic_aya
2008-04-09 05:43 pm UTC (link)
Amusing, and very interesting. I like how you proved your points, and I like the flow of your writing.

Thanks for this wonderful addition to the Yuffentine manifesto. ;D


P.S Your ship recs are gorgeous. You're right when you say that Guardian1's stories can make someone cry.

(Reply to this)


[info]ashenine
2008-12-13 09:31 pm UTC (link)
Came really late, but this truelly deserves the attention as the other essay in regards to VY/YV.

I love the idea of this pairing, because of their interaction and progress as any kind of relationship (partnership, friendship, lovership, etc).

These pairing has been one of the few that has made me cry, laugh, and GLOW when done right. Without mixing the fans/shippers/etc. that make the fandom community is truelly something beautiful to behold.

I have never understood fangirls or these "shipping wars", probably because what I get to listen to the most are the Yaoi Fangirls where I'm coming from.

Yuffie and Vincent become something much more than your usual stereotypical characters you see now a days. They have the depth to get someone riled up, to get mad, and much more.

The potential for them to become something "real" in their own world, all characters have this but none other have ever achieved this all thanks to the writers. Seriously, fan writers, you rock like no other.

Oh man, sorry for the TL;DR. To make this short, thank you.

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