Seducers

seducers @ 2005-03-04T16:46:00

2005-03-04T16:47:02Z

This a very interesting community. Let's reactivate it!

What is your favorite seductive object?

The Book

2004-11-29T07:58:21Z

Just wanted to add something to this group. I found out about the book a few weeks ago while on a business trip. From the excerpts I've read, it has a lot in common, in tone and style, with Greene's first book, which was sort of like Machiavelli meets Dale Carnegie. I'm very impressed with the level of the writing and the historical examples. Definitely not one of those smarmy How To Get Laid in Thirty Days type of book.

seducers @ 2004-04-23T03:12:00

2004-04-23T10:10:48Z

My seduction journal is up. I am also on Cliff's List here and there.

Unity. Totality. Completion. A starting point.

2003-08-21T15:48:52Z

Good morning. (Or greetings appropriate to whatever time of day this message finds you.)

Old patterns, entrenched patterns, die hard. Those who adhere to them die with them.

And yet we remain free to let go of those limitations. One can tune into an inner voice, or perhaps not inner but something that seems to come from outside the self… a revelation… an epiphany. It doesn’t matter where it comes from. You don’t have to pinpoint the source. You don’t even have to pay attention. All you have to do is let it speak and feel the patterns of sound and syllable work their magic on the pathways of association, opinion, memory, and desire. As you let that happen, you may notice a sensation of warmth, lightness, as the barriers inside your mind melt away like so much ice. The more you forget to pay attention to this voice, the more you let go of trying to analyze or understand the changes taking place, the more you notice the fluidity of your thoughts, and feel at ease.

Some change happens gradually, but you may notice it in an instant. You may appreciate it in a single moment, and then let your awareness move to something else. Some bodily sensation… the way your clothing contacts your body, the level of tightness in your scalp. Perhaps you increase that tension for a moment only to release it and become more fluid, more relaxed, more open to new channels of thought and experience.

It isn’t necessary to close your eyes, but if you do, you may notice that the seeming boundaries of your person expand in an instant, old outlines giving way to vast regions of space and possibility.

The Lion and the Oracle sit on a hill. A breeze ruffles his mane and sets the Oracle’s diaphanous garments rippling over her body in waves. Perhaps you surprise yourself with the vivid sensation you receive when you imagine what that might feel like on her skin? Your skin? Perhaps you see yourself in the scene. What else do you notice about their surroundings?

“What is this,” Asks the Lion, “Hypnosis?”

The Oracle swings an imaginary pocket watch back and forth in front of the Lion’s eyes, which track it back and forth… back and forth… back and fourth…

“There’s no such thing as hypnosis,” she tells him and dispels the imaginary pocket watch.

“No?” Asks the Lion.

“No,” she affirms. “There is only communication. One person speaks, another listens, and a thought is communicated… usually imperfectly.”

“Then,” says the Lion, “If I were to count down from ten to one, suggesting that with each number a person sinks deeper and deeper into a state of relaxation, this has no effect on the listener?”

“Your listener might cooperate and accept your invitation to lower the barriers to deep communication, or if she doesn’t trust you, she may keep her barriers rigid and not follow you down that path, not accept your invitation to communicate on a deeper level.”

“Make her mind like a brick? Eh? Fixed? Unyielding?”

“Perhaps,” says the Oracle, “but if she has faith in her own judgment and resilience, she may open up and follow you as you count down from ten to one, slowly moving to deeper levels of receptivity. Shall we go there now?”

“Yes,” replies the Lion. “Ten… poised at the top level ready for… Nine… beginning the descent. Eight… infinity turned sideways, it glides by on our way to… seven; magnificent in its associations.”

“Six,” continues the Oracle, because they’re taking the journey together. “Five… still moving safely but feeling the gravity at the bottom of the well.” Here she notices her breathing. How has it changed?

“Four,” the Lion counts as he remembers the question posed by Terrence McKenna; “Why is it that the deeper you go, the bigger it gets?”

“Three,” continues the Oracle, lingering briefly over associations with a divine trinity before releasing the thought and continuing down to… “Two.”

Speaking in unison as they arrive together at that deep level where communication, deep and consensual, opens to new possibilities. “One.”

Unity. Totality. Completion. A starting point. Together here, they pause to draw a deep breath, hold it for a moment, and then let it out, feeling a sensation of deflation and welcoming that seeming loss of self because they both know that by letting go of a part of themselves, they make way for the inflowing of something magical, something that only comes when they make room for it. Something transformative.

What is it?

Misfire

2001-12-13T20:50:21Z

I was in line at Target last night buying Christmas cards, wrap, and whatnot. I picked a line behind a woman who was buying clothes. No ring on her finger, cute, probably around my age, and her demeanor became a bit more flustered after I arrived. She had trouble taking sweaters off the hangers, that sort of thing. She and the clerk were already discussing the merits of one of the sweaters, and without thinking (but after I decided I'd like to meet this woman) I said something witty - well, sort of witty. My version of witty in such a situation is a joke that could be construed as serious depending on the demeanor of the person saying it. And with people that don't know me, that seems to make them think, throw them out of their normal scripts and take a closer look at me.

It worked, but the problem was it worked on the wrong person. The clerk immediately tried to visually attract my attention, and the other woman noticed, and soon she was gone. Of course, my response to the clerk is to smile and continue, so I bought my items while the gushing clerk pushed her face so close to mine I could have touched it and it would have seemed utterly natural.

I still haven't quite decided if I can distill myself into a particular type according to the book, and I already do use some of the tactics - I just hadn't consciously attempted to organize them before. So I'm not sure what I was doing aside from playing a role they seemed to expect from me based on my appearance. But I now know I have to tailor some of my remarks to better aim at the proper target ;)

Seducer & Victim/Target Typology

2001-12-11T08:49:34Z

View Poll: Seducer & Victim Typology

questions as better than comments

2001-12-10T17:40:49Z

A friend recently found himself randomly chatting in an airport:

I had a nice conversation with a woman about home remodeling, sudbury schools, and doctoring (she's a pediatrician, married w/kids). She seemed genuinely engaged, or was it just good bed-side manner? I think I ignored a couple of hints she'd injected as subtle requests to be released from the obligation of conversation so she could get back to reading her journals and pondering the fate of her out-grown home. I also could have done her more good by probing for the essence of her particular dilemma than I did by reflecting on her every issue with my own thoughts; I find the latter breeds disinterest if the thoughts don't strike a chord, and resentment if they do. But insightful questions are almost universally appreciated.

on the interconnectedness of excellence

2001-12-08T03:18:48Z

Scene:

Dex hands Stu a stack of Eastern philosophy books...

"I'm not looking for Enlightenment, Dex, I'm looking for a girlfriend." - Stu

"It's all connected." - Dex

The Tao of Steve (I happen to be watching this tonight for the first time!)

seducers @ 2001-11-29T16:03:00

2001-11-29T21:59:13Z

The sugary sweet parts of seduction are only eclipsed by the dramatic scary moments of falling so deeply into someone you can barely remember to breathe.

I think overall the acts of seducing and being seduced are different for males and females. Unfortunately, the American culture would have us believe that men seducing women is a big bad thing. Where when a woman seduces it is either her being coy or downright sexy sexy.

But being on both ends of the coin, it is some gray in between. Seduction takes on many forms and considering that I enjoy the topic on an intellectual level as well as personal, there is much to explore.

I have never felt like a seducer... more an explorer of ideas, people and connections. For a long time, I resisted the label, but considering how beautiful the idea of seducing someone with ideas that help them become better people is changing a lot of that hesitation.

Perhaps, I'm candy coating. Maybe seduction really is a down and dirty science of manipulation where people can only last so long. I mean they are burning on both ends, no doubt. But for someone like myself, it is more pure and yet extremely complex.

How does one that watches and studies people specifically in the field of seduction allow themselves to be seduced as well as seduce other? Layer upon layer the power exchange begins to take form. I really believe the fun begins when a seducer themselves knows they are being seduce and dives in anyway.

charter

2001-11-29T09:24:57Z

I've now created this community and composed its "About" section.

I'm open to any rewrite suggestions that leap out.

temptation!

2001-11-29T09:10:42Z

Temptation is a twofold process. First you are coquettish, flirtatious; you stimulate a desire by promising pleasure and distraction from daily life. At the same time, you make it clear to your targets that they cannot have you, at least not right away. You are establishing a barrier, some kind of tension.

In days gone by the barriers were easy to create, by taking advantage of preexisting social obstacles -- of class, race, marriage, religion. Today the barriers have to be more psychological: your heart is taken by somebody else; you are really not interested in the target; some secret holds you back; the timing is bad; you are not good enough for the other person; the other person is not good enough for you; and so on. Conversely, you can choose someone who has a built-in barrier: they are taken, they are not meant to want you. [...] the more you make your targets pursue you, the more they imagine that it is they who are the aggressors. (tAoS, pp. 233-4)

hint, hint...

2001-11-29T09:05:20Z

Then she asked him to forget what she had said and forgive her for saying it, a key insinuating tactic: "I am asking you to forget what I have said, but I know that you cannot; the thought will remain in your mind." [...]

People have their own sets of ideas, which are hardened into stone by habit; your words, entering their minds, compete with the thousands of preconceived notions that are already there, and get nowhere. Besides, people resent your attempt to persuade them, as if they were incapable of deciding by themselves -- as if you knew better. Consider instead the power of insinuation and suggestion. It requires some patience and art, but the results are more than worth it. (tAoS, pp.215-6)

cold criticism

2001-11-29T08:58:11Z

From the incomparable The Art of Seduction (hereinafter, "tAoS"), pp. 206-7:

The number of women, and of men, who fell under Lawrence's spell is astonishing given how unpleasant he could be. In almost every case the relationship began in friendship -- with frank talks, exchanges of confidences, a spiritual bond. Then, invariably, he would suddenly turn against them, voicing harsh personal criticisms. He would know them well by that time, and the criticisms were often quite accurate, and hit a nerve. This would inevitably trigger confusion in his victims, and a sense of anxiety, a feeling that something was wrong with them. Jolted out of their usual sense of normality, they would feel divided inside. With half of their minds they wondered why he was doing this, and felt he was unfair; with the other half, they believed it was all true. Then, in those moments of self-doubt, they would get a letter or a visit from him in which he was his old charming self.

Now they saw him differently. Now they were weak and vulnerable, in need of something; and he would seem so strong. Now he drew them to him, feelings of friendship turning into affection and desire. Once they felt uncertain about themselves, they were susceptible to falling in love.

Most of us protect ourselves from the harshness of life by succumbing to routines and patterns, by closing ourselves off from others. But underlying these habits is a tremendous sense of insecurity and defensiveness. We feel we are not really living. The seducer must pick at this wound and bring these semiconscious thoughts into full awareness.