grizzygriswold ([info]grizzygriswold) wrote in [info]second_lifers,
@ 2007-02-28 10:20:00
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Voice in SL
There was an announcement on the Linden blog today about using voice in SL. What does everyone think about it? I personally think it will be a nightmare. The noise level in clubs and other crowded areas will be intolerably high. It will give griefers yet another outlet to annoy us. I personally am more comfortable communicating in text than verbally and don't really want to communicate that way. I also don't want to buy the equipment and I'd have to get some sort of software to disguise my voice, becuase I want my voice to match my av. I can see where it would be useful for certain situations but on a whole I think it will cause more problems than it will make improvements. I hope if I continue to use text chat that I won't be ignored.

***UPDATED****
Wow, this seems pretty unpopular with everyone. I'm glad I won't be the only luddite using text. (:
***************

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[info]maggiebarkley
2007-02-28 03:33 pm UTC (link)
Don't worry Grizzy, I won't ignore you.

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[info]grizzygriswold
2007-02-28 03:39 pm UTC (link)
When did you get a lj and why didn't you tell me? Cool!

If I end having to jump on the voice bandwagon, I will be downloading this.

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[info]violet_bisiani
2007-02-28 05:46 pm UTC (link)
The Man to Woman sounds fine, but the Woman to Man sounds creepy. I might have bad dreams after hearing that!

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[info]topher_fox
2007-02-28 03:34 pm UTC (link)
I don't forsee text being ignored, but I will be curious to see how they do this voice. Currently, on the Motorati Islands if you grab a free "Second Talk" headset you can use skype and chat with others in world.

Over in another 3d i was in, Activeworlds, we got VoIP. And it was set so you could turn it off, and moderators could set who was allowed to talk. Hopefully SL has options like that

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[info]spaceoperadiva
2007-02-28 03:51 pm UTC (link)
Yah, they were talking about concert venues and while having built-in sound would be great for that, it would only be great if the land owner can control it so only the performer is using the voice feature during a concert. Broadcast sound is not equal to ambient sound even with all the fancy distance fall-off features and such. Plus in most situations you want the performer to be loud and clear throughout the venue, not suffering from drop-off.

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[info]ladysinh
2007-02-28 03:58 pm UTC (link)
i think that voice would make it insane...

i use ventrillo when i play wow....and there is usually only like 8 or so people on..and it STILL gets crazy

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[info]spaceoperadiva
2007-02-28 03:59 pm UTC (link)
I don't want to have to use a voice modulator when I'm in male mode, so I guess I'm texting only while in male form. My husband says I could chat in my boy form with my regular voice anyhow because I don't sound particularly male or female with my medium low, kind of flat voice. But a lot of people who gender swap don't have ambiguous RL voices and that would be a major issue. And what if you're a fairy or an elf or a furry and you have a pretty strong idea of what you sound like in your head, but have no way to make your voice match for SL? Issues abound.

I don't think voice is going to destroy the world as we know it though. People who play games like WoW that have voice options say that most people prefer text. Griefers can already be way annoying with system sounds and sound generating devices inworld that don't require purchasing equipment to use. Surely voice chat will come with Mute just like regular chat and that will limit the griefing possibilities. I think that someplace like Sublime would be awesome with ambient-style sounds. Glasses clinking, low conversations in the background, the sort of thing you hear when you're actually at a great restaurant.

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[info]grizzygriswold
2007-02-28 04:20 pm UTC (link)
If voice becomes overly prevalent, I guess I will end up giving into it and using voice modulation software. I googled to see what out there and most of it is free and reasonbly priced. I like my av and don't want to change her.

Here is the one I will most likely use. Doesn't sound too bad.

click here

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[info]mmccann
2007-02-28 04:06 pm UTC (link)
As long as I can shut it off, I'll be happy.

Mari

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[info]bookofchange
2007-02-28 04:37 pm UTC (link)
For more specific information about the software, its uses... you can go over to Electric Sheep HQ and read more about it in person.

I'm not too worried about texting becoming obsolete any time soon. I've been reading up on it a bit. Remember the enthusiasm about voice and video chat in regular ol' IM? Most people aren't attracted to it. Also, you will most likely have easy capability of muting offending avatars. There will be a divide, and most people will be draen to the universality of texting. Those who choose voice will be limited in the number of people who will listen to them. That isn't desirable in a platform where communication is King.

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[info]caliah
2007-02-28 04:38 pm UTC (link)
I'm one of the naysayers.

For one thing I'd rather keep voice for games that require more of your reflexes and control - where taking the time to type might end up with your character kissing the ground. Such as the use of Vent or Teamspeak while on MMORPGs.

A number of SLers I know already use Skype to chat if they want to; the client is buggy/laggy enough and crashes often enough without me having to press a mute button to shut out extraneous chatter when entering an area. Do we -need- that functionality built in? No, IMHO.

Secondly, call me a prig, but I'd rather that people continue to exercise their communication skills in text. The presence of a voice option does tend to make a few folks lazy and inarticulate in text, as some clan groupies with active TS/Vent channels tend to be (enter an clan irc channel and try to discern how much is actually said in so many lines). :P

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[info]catscratchziggy
2007-02-28 04:51 pm UTC (link)
I hope we aren't forced to use the voice chat too cuz I don't wanna talk all day long.

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[info]violet_bisiani
2007-02-28 06:32 pm UTC (link)
For real! I already talk all day long with my job, and while I love to talk, it's nice to have some down time. I'm on my lunch break right now sitting very quietly at my desk. It's a very nice hour :)

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[info]violet_bisiani
2007-02-28 06:30 pm UTC (link)
Well, it sure seems that most of the LiveJournal Second Life residents aren't too excited about this. I'm not really, either. I forsee mass confusion even in less busy areas. Will we hear someonne 2m away the same as someone 20m away? Will we know who is speaking? It might be interesting to see, but I don't imagine using it much. Quite often I have used Gmail Talk to chat with people in SL, but that's a one-on-one connection. Hmmm....now that makes me wonder if this voice chat in SL will be more one-on-one like IM. Maybe I'll right-click on that person and choose voice chat and only hear that one person. I honestly haven't read up on it enough to know exactly what the plans are.

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[info]grizzygriswold
2007-02-28 06:40 pm UTC (link)
Whether you can hear someone depends on the distance you are from them according to the blog. People farther away are softer or out of ear range.

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[info]fenix_harbinger
2007-02-28 06:38 pm UTC (link)
There would have to be a *serious* amount of in world technological boundaries on how it would work for me to even consider this a good idea. IE: the "sound" of peoples voices would have to be dampened by distance, much as text is now (or sound is in RL). Otherwise, that is a cluster&%$# I want *no* part of.

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[info]mmccann
2007-02-28 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Hmn: jusdgine form here, the SL Forums, an the SL Blog comments, this feature is largely (but not completely) disliked. It'll happen anyway, of course -- but it sounds like it's gonna not be much liked.

Mari

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[info]grizzygriswold
2007-02-28 07:03 pm UTC (link)
not liked = not used. (:

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[info]mmccann
2007-02-28 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Yups. :-)

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[info]kathygnome
2007-02-28 07:39 pm UTC (link)
I saw the same comments when There introduced voice. It got used.

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[info]cyberthorn
2007-02-28 07:26 pm UTC (link)
I run in an environment where I frequently can't have sound on. Even if I ran with headphones, I couldn't be talking and disturb others. That's a major reason for me not to want voice.

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[info]kathygnome
2007-02-28 07:38 pm UTC (link)
I think this is meant for the business and educational folks.

I was one of the first wave of beta testers and watched There change for the worse when they added voice. Text did get ignored. People were rude. ("come back when you get a mic") And voice seems to attract an adolescent mentality--not in terms of abuse but in terms of just stupid conversations.

The difference here might be that you can turn voice off in different places. And, of course, it being Linden, it probably won't work anyway :)

For me, I spend a lot of time away from the keyboard making dinner or things like that. More recently writing papers for grad school and popping into SL to keep myself sane. It's nice to be able to just leave my chat window there and I can catch right up. Voice makes that impossible. Not there and you miss it.

Either way, it's not something I'm happy about.

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Pick a little, talk a little, cheep, cheep, cheep.
[info]caliburnpdx
2007-02-28 08:15 pm UTC (link)
Before I tried it, I had a 50/50 attitude toward it.

Now that I've tried it with a few people, I've switched to 20/80, against.

To sum up, while SL is intrinsically a glorified chat room, it is primarily a fantasy / roleplaying / escapism / amusement environment that is totally VISUAL in nature. Voice is an intrusion. Actually ALL of real life is an intrusion.

Yes, you (and the others) are real people, sitting at a real computer pressing keys and clicking the mouse, but SL is not about being you. It is about escaping that. What you are doing is projecting your MIND, and to some degree your personality and feelings, into an animated replica that you must pay close attention to in order to experience fully.

Most importantly, you need to look around and take in the view; you need to move around with some degree of expertise in order not to appear clueless and clumsy; you much watch where you step, lest you fall into a lake, or off a bridge, or (horrors) get the "I'm taking a piss" one leg in the air syndrome from stepping on an uneven surface (btw, it's hilarious when a pretty lady avatar in a nice dress does this). :-D

You also need (though many do not) to pay attention to what your avatar is looking at, especially when having conversations with people. You need to hold down the ALT key and click the mouse on the face of the person you are speaking to; you need to do the same with other members of the group; and if you have them available you need to use emoter anims to show facial expression.

It would seem that freeing your hands up from the chat-typing would make all of the above more likely, and more fluid. In theory it would.

But in fact what voice talking does is reduce the unique fantasy experience to a common phone conversation, with all the attendant "hum's" and "um's" and moans and sighs and giggles. Second Life becomes less than secondary, it becomes totally irrelavent. At some point your mind snaps away from your avatar and you find yourself thinking, "Why do I need to fuss with this nonsense while talking on the phone? This is totally silly."

And it is silly, until the voice conversation is over and you can get your mind and your entertainment level back into your fantasy.

Yes, there will be always be clique mongers looking for yet another reason to exclude people from their little clubs, and like they use age, or looks, or furriness, they will use "why won't you use voice?" as a means of exclusion. But so what? If they are that immature, they certainly are not worth hanging out with.

I for one am on Second Life to have a second life, not a replica of the first one. I will be hanging out with the typing crowd. More relaxing and entertaining. And I'd much rather listen to a roaring waterfall sound file and relax in Bliss Gardens than listen to the silly gabbing, snorting, "um'ing" and heavy breathing of a bunch of other people anyway.

------------------------------------------------

That being said I think voice (20% of the time) is a good thing. It aids in teaching, lecturing, and entertaining, it is vital for meetings (and real-time productivity), and it will attract more institutions to SL which will enrich the SL world for all of us.

But I ain't usin' it. Naw.

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Re: Pick a little, talk a little, cheep, cheep, cheep.
[info]caliah
2007-02-28 11:01 pm UTC (link)
To sum up, while SL is intrinsically a glorified chat room, it is primarily a fantasy / roleplaying / escapism / amusement environment that is totally VISUAL in nature. Voice is an intrusion. Actually ALL of real life is an intrusion.

In all immersive games this is almost always the case. I don't want to be hearing "Hey baby!" or inane giggling every time I enter a beautiful sim that just so happens to have a few newbies in it, or being jarred out of the gritty atmosphere in a city like Midian by having someone whine over voice chat over how their SL boylet dumped them. Text is fine - and with text there's always the option of having protracted conversations with people who are multitasking like you or simply taking it slow. The immediacy of voice means that SL will demand more time and attention from you in a social area, and that, I'm not willing to give.


Yes, you (and the others) are real people, sitting at a real computer pressing keys and clicking the mouse, but SL is not about being you. It is about escaping that. What you are doing is projecting your MIND, and to some degree your personality and feelings, into an animated replica that you must pay close attention to in order to experience fully.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Re: Pick a little, talk a little, cheep, cheep, cheep.
[info]adrian_watts
2007-03-01 01:00 am UTC (link)
That being said I think voice (20% of the time) is a good thing. It aids in teaching, lecturing, and entertaining, it is vital for meetings (and real-time productivity), and it will attract more institutions to SL which will enrich the SL world for all of us.


Can't you usually use the region music feed for that? If I were setting up voice lectures in SL, that's the route I'd take.

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Re: Pick a little, talk a little, cheep, cheep, cheep.
[info]grizzygriswold
2007-03-01 07:10 pm UTC (link)
You are right. I couldn't have said it better. I also detest talking on the phone. I can talk face to face and I can talk in text chat, but the phone just intimidates me. I do best in text actually. I also am shy in rl. SL has helped me because I can interact with people without being me... Well, I'm me, but I'm not me. You know what I mean, I"m sure. It's been very therapeutic for me.

Bringing voice takes some of that away from me and that's why I most likely will not be using it.

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[info]kherber
2007-02-28 10:24 pm UTC (link)
I can't even begin to imagine how noisy it would be in a place with several people talking at once in different conversations. I already hate the soundspam enough that I turn off sound altogether unless I'm listening to one of my favourite DJs. This would convince me even more to keep 'em turned off permanently.

Aide from anything else, there's a privacy issue; I share a house with other people, including a minor (not mine!). The last thing I'd want is for a child to overhear the sort of conversations that go on in SL.

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[info]caliah
2007-02-28 11:07 pm UTC (link)
Oh dear.

I too, share a house with other people, and it was somewhat difficult to explain a few times when a neighbour's naughty bits were distinctly audible over the speakers.

I know, I should use a headset. That's what I get for leaving the volume high after turning off Winamp.

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[info]kherber
2007-02-28 11:19 pm UTC (link)
Yeah it's not just about what others are saying - liike you say a headset solves that part. But it WOULD heavily censor what I say, in certain situations. I don't particularly want other people listening to what I'm saying either.

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Not really related to the topic at all...
[info]delfina
2007-03-02 09:42 pm UTC (link)
But to make it somewhat related - I don't use sound at all in SL. My computer is too decrepit, and it definitely won't handle voice. Unless I get an awesomely cool computer, which isn't likely, I'll probably not use it. However, if others want to use it, all good for them.

And now, to the not related part - Caliah, where did you get the make-up that you're wearing in that profile pic? I'm assuming the hair is from Naughty, yes? (I picked up Party Girl and plan on grabbing one of the Angel styles as well.) And why aren't you wearing some of your jewelry in your profile pic? Best way to advertise. ;) Where is your shop, anyway?? :D

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[info]grizzygriswold
2007-03-01 07:11 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I hate it when people feel the need to play some sound file from a stupid movie over and over again in an attempt to be clever. This will offer more annoying and failed attempts to be clever.

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[info]saoirsebreyer
2007-03-01 01:19 am UTC (link)
i dunno.. i think it might be kinda cool.. if they run it as an option like skype.. where there is some control over who enters a conversation. what i am concerned about is the added lag. i guess we'll see how it goes.. i'm openminded about it though.

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[info]keikotakamura
2007-03-02 07:48 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, the lag thing is terrible! Instead of coming up with marvelous new features that are for the time being rather extraneous, maybe LL ought to deal with the database load issues, failed TPs, missing lindens, etc. that are prone to happening. If they could maybe work on just smoothing things out for everyone, that would make such a huge difference.

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[info]kateamdahl
2007-03-05 04:38 pm UTC (link)
In case you don't feel like this subject has already been beaten to death, I've beat it to a sort of pinkish pulp in a post on my blog. Believe it or not, there are some other reasons that haven't been mentioned here to be concerned about voice in SL, along with a few things that are good about it.

And to echo Grizzy, yes, voices do get quieter the farther away the speaking avatar is. The voices are also directional, so if you have good stereo sound, you should be able to tell which direction the avatar who's speaking is in. And you will be able to turn voice off on your land parcel and mute specific avatars, just as with chat or other sounds.

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