Nina ([info]ninaf) wrote in [info]seattle,
@ 2008-12-01 23:17:00
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Entry tags:political

"OLYMPIA — A group of atheists and agnostics has placed a sign at the Capitol building that says, in part: "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

The sign, sponsored by the Madison, Wisc.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, is in part a reaction to a Nativity scene put up in the Capitol by a private citizen."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008456344_webatheist01.html

The full sign says this:

At this season of the winter solstice, may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

Sweet.




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[info]popcultureicon
2008-12-02 07:23 am UTC (link)
They lost me at "winter solstice."

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[info]stutts
2008-12-02 07:25 am UTC (link)
99 problems and a witch ain't one

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brokn2pieces, 2008-12-02 01:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mandylicious, 2008-12-02 05:38 pm UTC

[info]lady_gray
2008-12-02 09:14 am UTC (link)
I think this is a synopsis of the way that history explains religious winter holidays, and how various cultures of the past marked the passing of the season on the shortest day of the year. See also: fertility festivals, spring equinox, and Easter.

In case your comment was a cringe of association between the words "winter solstice" and the pseudo-historical mish-mash that is modern pagan/wiccan belief.

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(no subject) - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-02 04:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-02 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-02 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-02 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-02 10:12 pm UTC
Ah. - [info]libertango, 2008-12-02 11:47 pm UTC
Re: Ah. - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-03 12:01 am UTC
Re: Ah. - [info]libertango, 2008-12-03 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-03 09:37 am UTC
Lost - [info]libertango, 2008-12-02 11:36 pm UTC

[info]wesa
2008-12-02 07:28 am UTC (link)
Bout time.

(Reply to this)

ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect.
[info]jsl32
2008-12-02 07:31 am UTC (link)
that'll show the mean person who put up something harmless and sweet (though technically inaccurate).



(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect.
[info]king_chiron
2008-12-02 07:57 am UTC (link)
Why is it rude for an atheist to proclaim their beliefs? If someone stands up and says they believe Jesus is the son of God is that "rude" to those that don't believe it?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]scearley, 2008-12-02 08:01 am UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]king_chiron, 2008-12-02 08:06 am UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 04:58 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]popcultureicon, 2008-12-02 08:08 am UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 04:15 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]popcultureicon, 2008-12-02 08:10 am UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]broken_alice, 2008-12-02 01:46 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-02 02:58 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 04:14 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 04:56 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 05:04 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 05:06 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 06:03 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]tisoi, 2008-12-02 02:06 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]qweerdo, 2008-12-02 02:26 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 04:35 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-02 09:20 pm UTC
Re: ah, the religion of rudeness and disrespect. - [info]stryper666, 2008-12-02 05:49 pm UTC

[info]watchout5
2008-12-02 07:40 am UTC (link)
yay I'm being represented :D

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[info]geneticlemon
2008-12-02 07:47 am UTC (link)
Haha. I love how even atheists are intolerant ... I guess humans are just naturally flawed.

As for the nativity scene ... I'd like to remind that citizen of "separation of church and state." Religion doesn't belong on the steps of our capitol.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]sgiffy
2008-12-02 04:19 pm UTC (link)
Sigh... expressing ones opinion that a belief system is wrong and dangerous is not intolerant. One can both disagree and tolerate the existence of what they are disagree with. I might think Christianity is stupid but I do not think Christians should face discrimination in employment, have their practices banned, or not be able to express their opinions.

Its not the atheists that try to force everyone to live by there rules or to belief what they belief. We, for the most part, confine our activities to the market place of ideas that freedom of speech and thought is designed to create.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ninaf, 2008-12-02 04:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 04:44 pm UTC
To be fair here - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 04:48 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 04:49 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 06:15 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]talheres, 2008-12-02 06:23 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 06:37 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]ninaf, 2008-12-02 06:50 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 06:53 pm UTC
Re: To be fair here - [info]joandirk, 2008-12-02 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 04:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ninaf, 2008-12-02 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 07:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 07:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teh_dirty_robot, 2008-12-02 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 07:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 08:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 10:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgiffy, 2008-12-02 10:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trauma_hound, 2008-12-02 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trauma_hound, 2008-12-02 09:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-02 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 05:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-03 05:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 05:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]geneticlemon, 2008-12-03 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-03 12:06 am UTC

[info]dianthus
2008-12-02 07:53 am UTC (link)
I like the /idea/ of having an atheist display. However, this sounds mean-spirited and, well, preachy.

/neohellenist

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]talheres
2008-12-02 07:59 am UTC (link)
However, this sounds mean-spirited and, well, preachy.

Same here. I find it as annoying as the fundy propaganda during this time of year.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]craftyasparagus, 2008-12-02 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 03:19 am UTC

[info]scearley
2008-12-02 07:54 am UTC (link)
so it's just the more "inclusive" response to what the airport did last year.

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[info]blahthequah
2008-12-02 08:16 am UTC (link)
hail satan

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[info]nihil_duce
2008-12-02 01:22 pm UTC (link)
...and his orchestra!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]arrogantb
2008-12-02 08:41 am UTC (link)
maybe we could just not have any displays on public property...

on the flip side - it would be awesome if someone pretending to represent scientologists managed to put in a display... (do some sort of xenu/jetliner nativity scene...)

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[info]lady_gray
2008-12-02 09:16 am UTC (link)
I always appreciate your comments, for being both sensible and amusing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]salsuginous, 2008-12-02 04:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nihil_duce, 2008-12-02 04:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rocketgeek, 2008-12-03 12:34 am UTC

[info]arrogantb
2008-12-02 08:52 am UTC (link)
I'll chime in again...

"At this season of the winter solstice, may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

being an atheist - I agree with about 85% of this... I think the last few words are a bit heavy-handed - and in my opinion not always entirely accurate.

it kind of annoys me when people go out and "represent" atheism and then toss in more specific beliefs (like above) - of course religious people have the same issue 100x.

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[info]zachattack87
2008-12-02 06:24 pm UTC (link)
I agree. I'm agnostic/atheist/whatever and while I don't believe in God, I don't discount that many good things have been done in the name of religion (granted there are many bad things too). But religion does breed compassion as often as it does close-mindedness, in my opinion.

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[info]lady_gray
2008-12-02 09:19 am UTC (link)
As I say about any group that believes passionately: you won't win anyone over to your cause if you're an asshole about it.

That said, I am in this group and struggle daily for patience with the small-mindedness that religion inbreeds.

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[info]chiaspod
2008-12-02 10:45 am UTC (link)
I applaud the atheists' desire to participate during the Christmas season. God bless 'em!

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[info]lamzydivy
2008-12-03 06:05 am UTC (link)
Ahahah we don't want Christmas, we just want gifts :| I think we should make up a "Give me all of your money day". Don't they have something like that in Japan? Happy day! Give me all of your money! Oh, and some cookies too! K thx! Let's make this happen.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]muddy_feet
2008-12-02 02:20 pm UTC (link)
I heard about this as well. Totally fantastic.

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[info]one_bad_rat
2008-12-02 03:07 pm UTC (link)
This is all fairly silly, in my opinion, but I think what atheists are reacting to is a tendency for people to push faith in secular institutions like the capitol building. As "intolerant" as that sign is, I think most atheists would keep those opinions to themselves if they didn't have to deal with seeing other people's religious beliefs in their faces all the time in places they shouldn't expect to.

I'm a spiritualist, and even though I'm non-religious (in terms that religion involves organization), it does grate me when movies like Religulous and signs like this denegrate any spiritual belief as superstition, the cause of major world problems, etc. However, I also realize that these expressions are just a reaction to other intolerant religious expressions, and try to shrug them off.

What I would like to see, and what I think most Americans believe in, is an embrace of tolerance and respect for other's religions, and perhaps a move to modesty in terms of their expression. If we could all just agree to keep "major" religious expression in our homes or in churches, and express personal religious beliefs in public in small ways (i.e., clothes, jewelry, etc.) without having huge, permanent displays in secular places we all have a stake in, a lot of this angst would just fade away.

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[info]gypsykat
2008-12-02 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Spiritual belief is by nature superstition. You can't prove it. Not saying you can't believe it, but it is unprovable at this stage. And the major organized relgions have been a large cause of major world problems.

I respect no one's "religion", but respect anyone with a philosophy. The distinctions between the two are real. So many people use the term religion when they mean philosophy.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]foolishgirl5239, 2008-12-08 02:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kondo85, 2008-12-02 05:56 pm UTC

[info]sgiffy
2008-12-02 04:24 pm UTC (link)
I kind of like the idea of the capital as a place were people can put up displays like this. Should not a monument to freedom actually allow the very debate our government is designed to allow?

I really hate the whole, "be quiet, lest you hurt someone's delicate little feelings" bullshit. I see nothing wrong with Christians saying that Jesus makes you happy and saves you from God's Guantanamo, I just disagree. Now we have norms of politeness and rules about public officials, but aside from that bring it on. Fuck sensitivity and this irrational fear of offending others.

Now taking it into the legal realm or using violence is rarely warranted, but a vigorous debate over ideas is one of the most important things a democracy can have.

Edited at 2008-12-02 04:27 pm UTC

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[info]teh_dirty_robot
2008-12-02 07:59 pm UTC (link)
"God's Guantanamo"

HAHAHAHA

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]thedolphingirl
2008-12-02 05:18 pm UTC (link)
Oh, now look what you've done, I can't respond without being 10X longer than the original post. Forget that. I agree atheists should get as much a display as anyone else allowed to display. I disagree with the words and feel "One life to live" or anything that refuted the idea of an afterlife or the personal belief in a god would have been good enough (I doubt the nativity scene says "Believe in Jesus or go to Hell").

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[info]lamzydivy
2008-12-03 05:59 am UTC (link)
I like "One life to live"!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]eleri
2008-12-02 05:27 pm UTC (link)
As I said elsewhere, I'd be much more empathetic with the atheistic movement, if they didn't seem determined to look down their noses and proclaim all non-atheists delusional morons.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]lady_gray
2008-12-02 09:35 pm UTC (link)
BUT THEY ARE. It's so frustrating being surrounded by credulous people with no capability for critical thinking.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eleri, 2008-12-02 09:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-02 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ninaf, 2008-12-02 09:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trauma_hound, 2008-12-02 10:03 pm UTC

[info]trobone
2008-12-02 05:36 pm UTC (link)
anyone who wanted to put something up could. I just don't see the point about going about it like this. Are they hoping people will read it, slap their heads and decide not to believe anymore? I am in no way over religious, but I have to say this shit is getting out of hand. Putting up a tree is not forcing anyone into believing in christmas, just like putting up a menorah is not forcing anyone to believe in judaism. Why can't athiests just think what they want the think, and let those who think differently just go about their lives. I'm all for putting up a display, but why is the hate part needed?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]talheres
2008-12-02 05:45 pm UTC (link)
but why is the hate part needed?

Because being openyl antagonistic to a large percentage of humanity is a great way to change people's minds.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-02 09:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]muddy_feet, 2008-12-03 01:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trauma_hound, 2008-12-02 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-03 09:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trauma_hound, 2008-12-03 03:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 03:22 am UTC

[info]badrobot68
2008-12-02 09:13 pm UTC (link)
This is why I love Seattle.

(Reply to this)


[info]lamzydivy
2008-12-02 10:11 pm UTC (link)
Atheist here. I'm glad to see some sort of representation but would have preferred a different message. While I agree with the message to a certain extent, I would never say that all theists are enslaved or possess a hardened heart. It's simply not a fair statement and I don't believe that "well they do it too" is a valid argument. I'd rather take the high ground, especially when putting up a sign that people of all religions and backgrounds will see. Instead, I think we could have been a little more positive and said something like "without gods, devils, heaven, hell, sins, and angels, we're left with a natural world which is actually kind of cool all on it's own". I would have also settled for "Nature and Science FTW!"

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[info]marc17
2008-12-02 11:39 pm UTC (link)
Please leave science out of this. Atheism isn't testable and isn't supported by science. It's a faith based belief.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lamzydivy, 2008-12-03 12:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marc17, 2008-12-03 02:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 03:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marc17, 2008-12-03 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marc17, 2008-12-03 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 03:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lamzydivy, 2008-12-03 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiff_seattle, 2008-12-03 06:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lamzydivy, 2008-12-03 06:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lamzydivy, 2008-12-03 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_gray, 2008-12-03 10:16 am UTC

[info]xopherg
2008-12-02 10:34 pm UTC (link)
We are weak and pitiful compared to this display.

http://laughingsquid.com/flying-spaghetti-monster-statue-outside-of-tennessee-courthouse/

(Reply to this)


[info]dothefrug
2008-12-03 05:15 am UTC (link)
to me, this sign is the same as the people who intimidate and harrass prop 8 supporters: a childish way to support a good natured cause, which isn't much different from the "religious nuts". or PETA.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]lady_gray
2008-12-03 10:17 am UTC (link)
I wouldn't call prop 8 good-natured.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dothefrug, 2008-12-03 07:40 pm UTC

[info]foolishgirl5239
2008-12-08 02:44 am UTC (link)
"Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

SO TRUE!!

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