pomegranate ([info]dotobe) wrote in [info]seattle,
@ 2007-06-16 23:30:00
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yo
This is a public service announcement from the Dancing Girl with the Bright Green Sign on Jackson st.
You may have seen me during your weekends adventuring in the International District, and if so, I've definitely seen you.

To the people in your cars: It's okay to make eye contact! When I see you watching and smile and wave at you, there's no reason to turn away quickly and stare enthusiastically at the car in front of you. Yes, you can smile and wave back and have some fun with the interaction!

To the middle aged men walking behind or across the street from me: Please do not just stand and stare. It's creepy in all other social situations, yes, it is also creepy while I'm filling in my hours at an assigned location and cannot walk away from you.

To the lechy homeless men: I am not a dancing female gift the City of Seattle decided to kindly bestow for your afternoon entertainment. Just because I am having fun with my weekend job and happen to be in an incredibly public place does not give you the incentive or right to come up and talk with me. A quick comment or two is acceptable, but if another one of you interrupts my groove to tell me how much you love "how I shake it", I'll be forced to talk with one of the many security guards who patrol that area.

And to the rest of you: Smile and wave! One has to put up with a lot of crap when you work in such an open, public area; Help make my day better with a friendly hello.
I'll be there tomorrow; Maybe I'll see some of you around.

good day
namaste

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[info]mcfnord
2007-06-17 06:55 am UTC (link)
what do you sell with your dancing?

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[info]caraccident
2007-06-17 06:57 am UTC (link)
Dang, so close.

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 07:10 am UTC (link)
I hold a sign that says "CityView CONDOS" and points Eastward up Jackson street. I listen to music and dance around to it.

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[info]mcfnord
2007-06-17 07:18 am UTC (link)
Is the security guard contracted to assist you? Are you dancing on private property?

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 07:24 am UTC (link)
The security guards are a group of rent-a-cops assigned to the train station. It's what they're there for.

I can elaborate in the morning.

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[info]caraccident
2007-06-17 06:56 am UTC (link)
People don't have the right to talk to you when you're standing on the street?

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[info]henry
2007-06-17 09:04 am UTC (link)
I'm pretty sure the Bill of Rights doesn't cover that...

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[info]makale_83
2007-06-17 07:26 pm UTC (link)
I'm pretty sure there is something against sexual harassment.

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[info]henry
2007-06-17 10:55 pm UTC (link)
In the Bill of Rights? Sorry, try again.

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[info]makale_83
2007-06-17 10:59 pm UTC (link)
Well no shit, I meant in the law.

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[info]nomadraven
2007-06-17 07:13 am UTC (link)
It's okay to make eye contact! When I see you watching and smile and wave at you, there's no reason to turn away quickly and stare enthusiastically at the car in front of you. Yes, you can smile and wave back and have some fun with the interaction!

I'm guilty of this... not with you, because I've never seen you, but in similar situations. Don't take it personally... some of us have a lot on our minds, and don't feel like having a social interaction right then and there. I treasure my quiet time alone in the car; it replenishes my soul or something.

You rock for making your job fun... I always feel sorry for sign holder, since they usually seem so miserable.

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[info]nicolemarieh
2007-06-17 08:08 am UTC (link)
ugh, this wasnt you but there was a ton of really annoying car wash kids on jackson around pinehurst today.... really annoying because they kept running IN THE STREET with their signs, one little boy (like, 7 yrs old?) even SAT in the road at one point causing cars to creep by... uh there was tons of kids and not a single adult around supervising any of them, that i could see. even more annoying was that they were holding signs that said honk for jesus, yet some of the boys were dancing in obvious, hip-thrusting lewd sexual ways, and several of the girls holding signs were yelling and cussing to eachother. it was completely unsafe, not to mention obnoxious. wtf was going on there ?!

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 04:15 pm UTC (link)
I passed by them on a bus yesterday! I couldn't believe it when I saw them chasing each other into the road, then when almost getting hit, flashing their "Honk for JESUS" signs and grinning.

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[info]nicolemarieh
2007-06-18 07:42 pm UTC (link)
i have no problem with car wash fundraisers, but that was more then a little ridiculous :)

when i first saw your post i thought you were saying that was your group (then i realized nope not at all) :)

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[info]magikaldragon
2007-06-18 08:01 am UTC (link)
there was a bunch of kids at 145th and 15th today too.... screaming at me on my motorcycle.

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[info]lady_gray
2007-06-17 08:23 am UTC (link)
I've seen you when wandering around Jackson! You're so adorable :)

I hope they pay you well enough. Do you know the guy who stands further up the street and points his arrow in random directions?

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 04:19 pm UTC (link)
This job pays amazingly well; The condo business has a lot to spare to get their name out.
And the guy up the street is my room mate, actually. It's fun catching the 73 together after our shifts and being the two with the really large signs. He points it in random directions?

If it's you in the icon, you do look familiar; Say hi sometime. :)

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[info]lady_gray
2007-06-17 08:37 pm UTC (link)
Hah, yeah, that's me, though my hair's black now.

We stopped and talked to him once and asked him if he ever misled people. He was probably joking with us.

But yeah, next time I'm around there and I see you I'll be sure to wave and say hi.

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[info]gillen
2007-06-17 08:25 am UTC (link)
So you can express a preference for which people you wish to interact with, but we can't? I don't smile and wave because dancing girls hawking condos on a public street do not make me happy.

The middle-aged and homeless men who stare and comment clearly are happy to see you. Perhaps you should tune your act to focus more love on your fanbase.

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 03:51 pm UTC (link)
Of course I have no power over whether or not you smile and wave; Please, if you have no inclination to, then don't.
This is your opinion, your reality, etc.
But this won't change that it would make me happy if you did smile.

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[info]cambler
2007-06-17 05:50 pm UTC (link)
Yes, because it's quite clear that this is all about you.

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 06:17 pm UTC (link)
"So you can express a preference for which people you wish to interact with, but we can't?"

I think my response was appropriate.

Think of it this way: A likes something B's in control of. B doesn't want to give it, and that's okay. That's what's going to happen. But A still probably likes the thing either way.

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[info]vorona
2007-06-17 06:17 pm UTC (link)
This is an interesting snark coming from a photographer, especially highlighted by that particular icon. Hee hee. Is it bad to have a little ego?

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[info]cambler
2007-06-17 07:14 pm UTC (link)
Actually, there's no hypocrisy at all - any model who put themselves out in such a public way but wanted to dictate terms would also hear snark from me for exactly the same reason.

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[info]pocketlama
2007-06-20 05:43 pm UTC (link)
The snark flows like a stream from you, blessing us all.

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[info]vorona
2007-06-17 09:54 am UTC (link)
Huh. I've worked as a dancer, and I support respect for dancers, but wow, I am finding some of this awfully unrealistic. Being stared at comes with the territory. People stare at dancers, and most people watching do not behave in the ways you'd most prefer. It's a really good idea to have the proverbial thick skin about it, tune it out, smile and ignore it, and dance longer than they can stare. Because putting oneself on display and then demanding a certain version of politeness... ah, it's not going to happen. They see a girl dancing. It's not as if guys suddenly decided to act "creepy" with a random average woman who's just minding her own business. Performers by nature are not being private. Guys are staring because that's how guys generally react here to women dancing.

And concretely, John Q. Middle-Aged Seattle really doesn't know any better. And the "lechy" homeless guys probably do, but they don't care if personal remarks about "shaking it" make you uncomfortable. And I'm pretty sure none of these people read LJ. I wish I could be more supportive than this, but I think that your expectations of your audience are a little unrealistic. People act how they act. They will probably not change during your assignment, so it would probably be a good idea not to let it get to you.

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[info]retardomantaban
2007-06-17 03:53 pm UTC (link)

Iawtc
Glad I read comments before I posted the exact same thing.

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 04:11 pm UTC (link)
The post itself was more intended to be a, "Hey, this is what I do some days; it's in a public place so you might've seen me. This is my opinion of it; Who're you, what do you think of this, etc..?" kind of thing.
When I'm physically out there I've learned what to expect and caught on to what's realistic as far as ideal interactions go.
I understand that I'm in public territory, and in the territory of those who spend the majority of their time there. If I thought my opinions on some of these interactions would have a major effect on them, I wouldn't be using livejournal as the endeavor. I'm sure what I wrote expresses the opinions any person who works in public has had at some point, but the post itself was just supposed to be personal opinion.
Think of it as a customers_suck post; Of course the waitress understands the dynamics and inevitabilities of her situation, but she can still put out her opinion of her good and bad interactions.

Thank you for the constructive criticism.

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[info]grace_batmonkey
2007-06-17 05:15 pm UTC (link)
[info]seattle isn't [info]customers_suck, so people here aren't going to expect a post to be along those lines. Consider your audience when composing, eh?

If you were meaning to say "Hey, this is what I do some days; it's in a public place so you might've seen me. This is my opinion of it; Who're you, what do you think of this, etc..?", you should have said that. You instead wrote out a plea to be treated like something other than the living advertisement you have elected to employ yourself as, in a public place nonetheless.

If you'd said the other stuff, this would've been more interesting, you would have learned more instead of getting snarked at, and I wouldn't be sitting here wondering why one of those wiggling, unavoidable promoters of the Seattle Condo Virus thinks we give a flying fig-shaped fairy.

That said, the same naïveté that prompted you to think this post would go differently is probably what convinced you that being a living sign was a great idea, which is fair enough and shuts me up. ^_^

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 05:35 pm UTC (link)
Honey, honey. $20 an hour to stand and hold a sign as part-time employment is a great idea. The fact that I decided to post this shows more that I am comfortable with the possibility of snarky remarks than what you'd assume.
Subjective interpretation, dear. Your comment is the "snarkiest" I've received, and I'm alright with getting through it. :)

good day
namaste

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I guess that's your price, then.
[info]chinaski
2007-06-17 06:08 pm UTC (link)
I might do it too. But is it worth it when the consequence is appropriating public space for the purposes of advertising? Personally, I wouldn't feel good about it.

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[info]vorona
2007-06-17 06:12 pm UTC (link)
Frankly I'm surprised that the replies aren't snarkier, really, because the spirit of this community is terribly brittle. In fact, this community gets me down, and makes me wonder about the collective personality of Seattle. I think the low light makes people act bitchy. Someone could post "it's a remarkably beautiful day in Seattle, and I hope you are enjoying the weekend!" and there'd probably be a pile of "what makes you think we care?" and "cite?" and "did you check memories for happy crap like this? It's been done."

So, maybe your optimism is catching, or maybe people are so surprised that anyone would dare to post something expressing any personal vulnerability here, that they're just sitting, stunned, at their keyboards, trying to think of something really cutting to say.

On the other hand, condos and gentrification can be a really sore subject right now, because a lot of great people who happen to rent are being forced to find some way to finance buying a condo, or to move out of the city. Many artistic types are being forced to move to less-artistic neighborhood, so boring yuppies can come in and take their place in the places they made "cool."

I think it sucks that people who've lived downtown and on Capitol Hill so long are being displaced abruptly by more affluent, less bohemian, people. A great swath of funky, artsy, old bohemian Seattle, the block with Bimbo's Bitchin' Burrito Kitchen, The Aurafice, and Rudy's, is being gutted for more CONDOS, and I must admit I'm a little unhappy with that. Some people won't be mellow about it. There's a lot of feeling around that the less-affluent, more creative, intellectual, artistic types are what made Capitol Hill and downtown "cool," and all of this condo-ization is taking advantage of that, while ruthlessly displacing the people and businesses who made it possible. So please try to understand that there will be hostility directed at what you are selling. It's not personal, but I don't really blame people for being edgy about the topic.

Once again, Seattle needs rent control or something like it, but we are facing a hideously backward state, ruthless developers, big piles of apathy, and people who think they're "doing all right" and do not realize that their real interest lies more with the intellectual proletariat than with opportunistic developers.

*sigh*

Let the flaming begin. Maybe it'll warm up this chilly June day.

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 06:29 pm UTC (link)
The first paragraph brings to mind...


I would join in the inevitable moral debate on the gentrification of Seattle, but must begin my hours workin for "the man".
Hopefully the thread is as invigorating when I get back.

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[info]craftyasparagus
2007-06-17 07:47 pm UTC (link)
"Frankly I'm surprised that the replies aren't snarkier, really, because the spirit of this community is terribly brittle. In fact, this community gets me down, and makes me wonder about the collective personality of Seattle. I think the low light makes people act bitchy. Someone could post "it's a remarkably beautiful day in Seattle, and I hope you are enjoying the weekend!" and there'd probably be a pile of "what makes you think we care?" and "cite?" and "did you check memories for happy crap like this? It's been done."

So, maybe your optimism is catching, or maybe people are so surprised that anyone would dare to post something expressing any personal vulnerability here, that they're just sitting, stunned, at their keyboards, trying to think of something really cutting to say."

IAWTC.

I thought your post was cute, and understood it in the spirit it was written. I'm not usually in that area, but if I am anytime soon I'll give a wave. :)

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[info]comte
2007-06-18 08:13 pm UTC (link)
Just out of curiosity Vorona, how long have you been actively on the Internet?

Snarkage has pretty much been "the coin of the realm" since people started dialing into Usenet on 1600 BPS modems, and using anonymous "handles" to avoid personal reprisals, so really it's not anything particular to this group, or any others that focus on Seattle.

It's totally an Internet thing - people snark for many reasons, but mainly because they CAN and with little-to-no retribution for doing so.

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[info]vorona
2007-06-19 04:32 am UTC (link)
I've been on the Internet actively for over a decade. Maybe 12 years. And yes, I know about snarkage. I was around BBSes. Lists. All kinds of cranky, antisocial types. Yup. Know about 'em.

You made what assumption based on my lighthearted "let the flaming begin?" That it would BOTHER me? Yeah, well, maybe it would... so what. So what. It's really O.K., you know.

You're really not telling me anything I haven't been hearing people say for well over a decade. Thanks for the warning, though. I think I'll be O.K.

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[info]grace_batmonkey
2007-06-17 06:20 pm UTC (link)
1) Don't assume tone where there is none.
2) Don't call strangers "dear" or "honey".

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 06:49 pm UTC (link)
I apologize.
When I'm called "naive, wiggling, and unavoidable" over the intnernet and the commenter exclaims that they don't "give a flying fig-shaped fairy", I can only assume it is with a tone.

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[info]grace_batmonkey
2007-06-17 07:41 pm UTC (link)
I appreciate the apology, and I apologise for the perception you got. My writing doesn't do as good of a job of communicating for me as I'd like it to, at times.

That said, it's not all about you. The part that is about you is that it *was* naïve to think that what you wrote would convey concepts you didn't explicitly write. Folks can't read your mind. It wasn't couched properly, though, so I understand the offense. Again, my apologies.

"Wiggling" and "unavoidable" is the impression I get from animated ads that cover articles I'm trying to read (hence Adblock), giant inflatables competing for my attention at car lots (hence not shopping at those places), and people who do what you're doing (hence looking at other things).

It's a job. You chose it. The general public didn't ask for your presence there. It's not a dance club, it's not a theatre, it's not a ballroom. It's a public corner, and you're an advertisement. Sure, don't let creepy guys hassle you. Sure, stay happy at the jobs you choose. But telling other folks to be happy you're there? ??? It just seems a wee bit presumptuous.

Now, if I see you out and about at a place where you're dancing for the joy of it, I'll smile my fool head off at you. Hurrah for that. But when you're an ad, my friend, you are just part of a loop that folks don't get all that cheerful about.

"Flying fig-shaped fairy" was intended as a polite and potentially amusing acknowledgement that I frankly don't give one whit whether or not you're happy as an ad. Safe, absolutely. Happy, meh. If you were providing a service, my response would be different. My smile would be wide and cheerful and thanking you for doing what is often a thankless and unrewarding job. Anyway, that part relied more on one knowing my communication style, which admittedly still doesn't guarantee things will go over any better for me ;]

The smile and the "fair enough" were sincere, and I perhaps should have spelled that out.

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[info]vorona
2007-06-17 05:23 pm UTC (link)
I can certainly understand the need to blow off some steam. All performers need to do that, and female dancers who deal with the general (non-paying) public do even more, for obvious reasons.

I think it has a lot to do with being required to stay in a certain spot. In my more recent non-dancer incarnation, I've had seriously anxiety-producing problems with men of all classes staring at me in a creepy way, and saying unnecessarily familiar things to me, as I worked at a public desk at the (hideous) downtown library. I wasn't "performing" anything but library duties, but the layout of the public desks, and the understaffing, make isolated women workers vulnerable. And guys very frequently misread my age, and treat me as if I'm about 20 (or even more) years younger than I am. (It's the vitamin C ;) Men half my age would ask me out or flirt aggressively. Some men would settle in a chair to stare so blatantly that I expected to see them holding popcorn and a drink. Heh. Amusing now, but at the time it was horribly stressful, and I had to call the security guards more times than I ever would have expected.

See, I wasn't doing anything to "make" them act that way. I dress very conservatively (3/4 sleeves, modest necklines, below the knee skirts, nothing tight, low-heeled shoes... librarian style!) at work. My hair is simple, my makeup is conservative, and I don't flirt. It's baffling, because in my non-performing life, my style is markedly low-key and direct. In other words, I didn't do anything to "encourage" them whatsoever. I was surprised to find myself expected to ignore lascivious staring and personal remarks at a desk in the library. And it was very stressful.

So, yes, I know that many men act inappropriately when they perceive a "captive" performer. At the library, I wasn't, obviously, a performer! I got obnoxious unwanted attention simply for being female and semi-isolated. So I'm not discounting that underlying tendency in society. I don't think people realize how much women have to deal with poor etiquette from the public in so many public jobs. You could dress as a librarian and stand there quietly, and probably get a lot of staring and personal remarks, so you must really need to be tough to dance in public, outdoors, in daylight.

I hope expressing your frustration here will help a little. When I was a dancer, I had the DJ and/or other dancers with whom to commiserate. Everyone needs a little emotional support, and I have to salute your optimism in looking for that in [info]seattle.

Have fun with the June rain (I hope it's not too bad) and don't forget your sunscreen!

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[info]dotobe
2007-06-17 05:43 pm UTC (link)
That's a wild story; Now when circumstances get difficult, I can remind myself that at least I'm not in a library and the men can't pull up chairs. :)
Thank you for the kind response!

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[info]makale_83
2007-06-17 07:21 pm UTC (link)
LOL what is your job???? (There is no way I'd be able to handle the nasty perverted men or the nasty homeless men.)

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[info]xaotica
2007-06-19 01:40 am UTC (link)

i think you should add some instructions to the sign.

1. if you're in a car where i could never actually talk to you, it's fine to stare at me.

2. if you're male and old, it's not fine to stare at me.

3. if you're homeless, it's not fine to stare at me.

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