The Future Funny Old Cat Lady ([info]funnyoldcatlady) wrote in [info]seattle,
@ 2006-11-29 06:36:00
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We're not worthy!
Dear Co-Worker from the Midwest or East Coast:

We're so impressed that in Iowa, Boston, North Dakota or wherever you're from that they're so adept at driving on ice back there. That's amazing that "back home", your supernatural kids go to school in ten feet of snow. You're right, we Seattlites are just "idiots" and "babies" because we can't defy the laws of physics in order to drive on black ice. Where would we be without your gritty New York wisdom brightening our day? Of course, part of the reason you moved here is that we don't tend to get this type of weather, but we won't mention that fact.

Oh, and our pizza here sucks too in comparison to back East. How we hang our inferior heads at that knowledge.

You can go "home" now.

Much love,
Me

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[info]subrandom
2006-11-29 02:09 pm UTC (link)
i believe the term burn would be appropriate

(Reply to this)


[info]ermac
2006-11-29 02:47 pm UTC (link)
oh shit dude


went there

(Reply to this)


[info]eleri
2006-11-29 03:30 pm UTC (link)
I had a chunk of relatives from Montana who kvetched like that, until I pointed out that they got blankets of snow that could, relatively, be shoved out of the way... not snow that half thawed, and then froze into sheets of ice covered by more snow.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]romulusnr
2006-11-29 03:53 pm UTC (link)
Um, yeah. Sorry, but road ice exists outside of Seattle's world-famously mild weather. It's just that other areas know what to do about it. They don't go out, look at snowy, icy roads, and act like no one's ever seen it before. Or worse -- like some towns here are doing -- ignore it completely.

Having bad roads after there's been no snow for 24 hours is inexcusable.

PS: Weeks like this make me anxious for light rail to get done.

blankets of snow that could, relatively, be shoved out of the way

Our snow could have been moved out of the way, too, if county and city had gotten out and moved it out of the way, instead of going "holy fuck" and cowering under their desks until the roads were completely screwed.

I've never heard of so many people being stranded on highways and at bus stops. Not even in freaking blizzards.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 05:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_coldlight266, 2006-11-29 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scearley, 2006-11-29 05:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 06:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scearley, 2006-11-29 06:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scearley, 2006-11-29 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 07:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]swizzle_, 2006-11-29 06:26 pm UTC

[info]insteadofsilent
2006-11-29 03:31 pm UTC (link)
The problem is, because this type of weather doesn't happen here very often, the city is not able to handle it. That's a big part of the problem. This is also the reason most people drive like idiots out here in the snow or ice. There was a woman on the news quoted as saying, " The only thing that is annoying is that you slide when you slam on your breaks. So, I guess I'll have to be careful not to do that. " Exactly.
So, yes, it is a bit frustrating for those of who grew up in this kind of stuff to be stuck in our houses due to a lack of preparation.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]alanscottevil
2006-11-29 03:34 pm UTC (link)
(pretty icon)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]insteadofsilent, 2006-11-29 04:18 pm UTC
MAsshole
[info]sea_gaagii
2006-11-29 03:40 pm UTC (link)
Oooh, that's me you're talking about!

Although I stayed home from work yesterday and will do so again today. I really like my job, but why in the hell would anyone want to go into the office when they don't have to?

And yes, the pizza sucks out here (except Northlake Tavern).

You can go "home" now
Seattle is now, and will always be, home. Crappy pizza aside it is the best city there is.


(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: MAsshole
[info]nikoel
2006-11-29 05:45 pm UTC (link)
I love Northlake Tavern, but I love NYC pizza best. *sigh*

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: MAsshole - [info]angelsong, 2006-11-29 05:54 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]sea_gaagii, 2006-11-29 06:37 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]angelsong, 2006-11-29 06:47 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-29 11:14 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]angelsong, 2006-11-29 11:32 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-29 11:43 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]angelsong, 2006-11-30 08:42 pm UTC
Re: MAsshole - [info]frogger414, 2006-11-30 02:48 am UTC

[info]romulusnr
2006-11-29 03:47 pm UTC (link)
Thank you Uptight Seattlite.

At least Back East if we call a city a "world class city" it's not just ass-talking political circle-jerking -- we really know what one is, and mean it.

World class cities have suburbs that own more than one snowplow and know the best uses of salt and sand. Of course, world class cities don't treat their metro areas like terra incognita.

It hurts, cause it's true.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]superdeluxe
2006-11-29 03:50 pm UTC (link)
World class cities have suburbs that own more than one snowplow

Not in places that snows maybe once a year. If that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]feignedapathy, 2006-11-29 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]freudian_slip, 2006-11-29 04:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]grouchychris, 2006-11-29 05:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 05:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ilovetequila, 2006-11-29 09:21 pm UTC

[info]stephanierose
2006-11-29 04:10 pm UTC (link)
You are talking aobut me, too.

It's not so much that Seattlites are "babies" or "idiots", it's just amusing. Yes, I'm used to 5 free snow days, feet of snow, -15 below wind chill. I am just not used to people getting so worried and uptight about snow.

If you moved somewhere where people freaked out about rain, you'd do the SAME thing.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]parker_wolf
2006-11-29 04:40 pm UTC (link)
Talking about me too - bait's fun. ;o)

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]swizzle_, 2006-11-29 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fuzzydjungelorm, 2006-11-29 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-29 11:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frogger414, 2006-11-30 02:49 am UTC

[info]perhapsmaybe
2006-11-29 04:11 pm UTC (link)
You forgot about the bagels! There are no good bagels here!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]heartburn_waltz
2006-11-29 07:15 pm UTC (link)
aww I love Noah's bagels.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]couldbebopeep, 2006-11-29 11:29 pm UTC

[info]whitneys_corner
2006-11-29 04:11 pm UTC (link)
This was a GREAT POST.

I have a relative from back East who would constantly talk about how we do not know how to drive in the snow, until she moved here and realized that the combination of hills and the afternoon thaw that froze over into a sheet of ice was nothing like the stuff she drove on back home.

And to those who just cannot believe that we do not have equipment out here to salt all the roads every time someone thinks it might go below freezing, there is another reason besides the ridiculous notion of spending massive money for equipment that would only be used once in a blue moon. SALT DOES NOT WORK IN THIS CLIMATE! It works wonders if the temperature would just stay below freezing, but all it does in a place that thaws and then freezes is make the problem worse.

Honestly, in all of the decades that I have lived in this area, I can think of maybe two times that I got caught in a horrible situation driving due to the snow. In Seattle, if we see a snowflake, we all yell a collective "YEAH!", and unless someone is dying we take the day off and drink cocoa and enjoy a bit of leisurely life while watching the transplants on the news trying to drive on ice. If it is one of those freaky storms where we get caught somewhere not at home, we go somewhere with others in the same boat, drink bourbon together, make new friends for the night and watch the transplants on the news trying to drive on ice. Some of my best memories are from a night where I was trapped somewhere due to the snow.

One year, I was driving a catering truck in Bellevue during a freak storm that gridlocked everything. Stuck with thousands of dollars of gourmet food in downtown Bellevue, we pulled over to the transit station, set up the tables and fed all of the people waiting for the busses that were not going to come for hours. Then there was that year I got stuck at work with Linda. We--um--never mind about the year I got stuck in the snow with Linda.

Gotta admit though, the pizza is better back East. Anyway, great post.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]nikoel
2006-11-29 05:49 pm UTC (link)
This was a GREAT COMMENT. Thank you!

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]swizzle_, 2006-11-29 06:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]khristle, 2006-11-29 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alanscottevil, 2006-11-29 08:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alanscottevil, 2006-11-29 08:08 pm UTC

[info]greenshadows
2006-11-29 04:28 pm UTC (link)
*blows kisses to the OP*

Their rants are so impotent, it's mildly amusing - but I've been housebound long enough, everything is amusing. :)

(Reply to this)

Two words.
[info]robotdevil
2006-11-29 04:30 pm UTC (link)
"passive agressive"

(Reply to this)

thank goodness for the seattle lj
[info]sphinxett
2006-11-29 04:32 pm UTC (link)
I can get my daily dose of snarkiness. Helps me with my homesickness out here.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: thank goodness for the seattle lj
[info]nubak
2006-11-29 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Somehow yesterday, with every TV and radio blaring *STAY HOME!* .... we were still slammed at work. Issaquah is a sheet of ice btw

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: thank goodness for the seattle lj - [info]sphinxett, 2006-11-29 04:52 pm UTC

[info]gomezticator
2006-11-29 05:04 pm UTC (link)
Dear Seattle locals:

You whine way too much.

Signed,
Guy from Vegas desert who yet doesn't have nearly as much trouble with ice and snow as you

(Reply to this)


[info]roberrr
2006-11-29 05:14 pm UTC (link)
It's all relative.

If you deal with certain weather conditions regularly, you'll know how to deal with it.

If you don't, you won't.

Common sense.

So to suggest Seattleites are fools or idiots or whiny for not being able to handle snow and ice, well, what else do you expect in a region where this kind of weather happens once every two or three years, if that commonly?

To turn it around, one could write a similar post and substitute "earthquake" for "snow and ice." I sometimes chuckle when I see people not from WA or CA freaking out at a minor quake, but then I realize they have no experience with it.

All this is just a typical case of "well I just can't believe people don't know what I know! do what I do!"

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Regularly Occuring Conditions
[info]sea_gaagii
2006-11-29 06:34 pm UTC (link)
If you deal with certain weather conditions regularly, you'll know how to deal with it.

Is that why people out here can't drive on sunny days?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]kowboy
2006-11-29 05:16 pm UTC (link)
If everyone back East has this amazing ability to drive on snow and not let it effect them, why do I start hearing about multiple fatality car accidents within ten minutes of snow falling whenever I'm back East visiting relatives? It doesn't matter if I'm in the Mid West or the East Coast. The snow starts falling and people start dying.

Which seems the more sensible of the two approaches? Freaking out and not traveling or traveling and getting into a ten car multiple fatality pile up?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]iluvrhinestones
2006-11-29 06:46 pm UTC (link)
So agree with this. I remember being back east and driving from Pennsylvania to Massachusetts in the middle of a crazy snowstorm. And all those people on the highway were just speeding forward like they had a collective death wish, losing control and fishtailing all over the place. Eventually we got to where the roads had been treated, but I get tired of hearing about how well people from the east coast drive in snow when what they mean is that they drive well in the snow on treated roads.

Also, dude, your icon freaks me out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 07:21 pm UTC

[info]derrickito
2006-11-29 05:17 pm UTC (link)
i was the one calling everyone here babies.

and i grew up in seattle. born and raised

(Reply to this)


[info]periaeria
2006-11-29 05:49 pm UTC (link)
I grew up in Baltimore, then moved back here to be closer to my dad's side of the family.

I must say I love the Seattle reaction to snow, because it reminds me of home! hehe! Baltimore freaks out similarly as much, even though snow is more common there. 24 hour storm coverage on the news! Reporters stationed along roads all over the metro Baltimore area! A reporter at the snowplow/salt truck station to report on how prepared we are for the 3 inch blizzard! Another reporter at the local grocery store interviewing all the people going in to buy out all the bread milk and toilet paper!!! And of course my parents, watching every minute of it, hehe.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]alanscottevil
2006-11-29 08:11 pm UTC (link)
Ahhh, home...

I'm in Silver Spring. It's still the same way, DC & Bmore both. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-11-30 01:08 am UTC

[info]mr_quackenbush
2006-11-29 06:03 pm UTC (link)
also, I'd like to take the opportunity afforded by this post apologize on behalf of all washingtonians for how standoffish and unfriendly we are. It's not that we don't like you, it's that we're perpetually baffled at why you moved here if you hate it and us so much.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]wifeofset
2006-11-29 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Jobs, mostly. People move here for the dreaded Boeing and Microsoft. Then we find out we hate it, but we love the paychecks...damnit

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]mr_quackenbush, 2006-11-29 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wifeofset, 2006-11-29 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_quackenbush, 2006-11-30 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-29 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funnyoldcatlady, 2006-11-29 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-29 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funnyoldcatlady, 2006-11-30 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-30 01:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_quackenbush, 2006-11-29 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-29 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_quackenbush, 2006-11-30 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-30 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_quackenbush, 2006-11-30 01:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cloeigrrl, 2006-11-30 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-11-30 01:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady3jane, 2006-11-30 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crankygirlie, 2006-11-30 07:10 am UTC

[info]gomezticator
2006-11-29 06:17 pm UTC (link)
You know what? I just remembered something.

When my friends Turner, Tim and I came up to Seattle for the first time from Las Vegas in 2001, we took Tim's parents' car. In the back trunk was a set of snow chains for the tires. (Incidentally, we actually had to use them in Northern California and Northern Nevada on the way there and back)

A driver, in Las Vegas, where it never snows, had a set of snow chains in the trunk... just in case. And it doesn't snow in Vegas (once every decade) nearly as much as it does in Seattle (once a year or two).

Amidst all the whining about the DOT not salting the streets or spending millions on 20 snowplows they'll hardly ever use or whatever else... why don't motorists spend a few bucks on some tire cables or chains, so that when snow and ice happens, THEY can do something about it instead of whining that the city won't do something about it for them? It's not like this never happens in Seattle; again, it snowed last year for one day, it snowed 2 years before, and the city's seen blizzards before.

Really, all the whining proves is that the citizens are psychologically fragile, unable to adapt, and helpless.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]kowboy
2006-11-29 07:21 pm UTC (link)
A driver, in Las Vegas, where it never snows, had a set of snow chains in the trunk... just in case.

Um ... possibly because in order to get to Seattle from Las Vegas you have to dive through at least three mountain passes which have a high liklihood of being snowed under? I don't normally carry chains in my boot, but I make sure to pack them somewhere if heading into the mountains in Falll or Winter.

Context, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kowboy, 2006-11-29 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ash_ketchum, 2006-11-29 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 08:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hawker, 2006-11-29 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady3jane, 2006-11-30 01:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frogger414, 2006-11-30 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iluvrhinestones, 2006-11-30 03:17 am UTC

[info]mapoffrance
2006-11-29 06:20 pm UTC (link)
I love reading this..a suggestion too would be to ask some of these people that know how to drive in this weather for a few suggestions so you don't make mistakes that cause accidents. But it is icey and I am not letting my east coast wife drive anywhere but I am getting aroiund fine in a front wheel drive chevy without studs..so it is possible

(Reply to this)


[info]jameth
2006-11-29 06:48 pm UTC (link)
my co-worker from the midwest told me that it is impossible to drive on ice regardless of where you live.

i think what people fail to realize is that we had a glaze of ice all over everything instead of compact snow. Compact snow is easy to navigate. Ice is not.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]silkygecko
2006-11-29 07:55 pm UTC (link)
I agree. I'm the one from ND, which as I recall, I only mentioned in the post about the eggs on the windshield. NOT snow related. Ice is hard enough to drive on in the ass-flat midwest, but ice + hills= danger! I'm the first one to call into work and take a snow day.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hawker, 2006-11-29 10:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gomezticator, 2006-11-29 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady3jane, 2006-11-30 01:40 am UTC

[info]the_baxter
2006-11-29 06:55 pm UTC (link)
Tell me about it. I'm so sick of hearing East Coast people talking about how superior their food/weather/everything is. I especially dispise when people refer to it as "The Right Coast".

(Reply to this)


[info]sgtred
2006-11-29 07:36 pm UTC (link)
I'm from Seattle - and she's right, Seattlites are just "idiots" and "babies". But, so is the rest of America. America is reactive, rather than proactive.

Ice can not be driven on well no matter where in America it coats the road.
Salt is bad for cars. Sand is bad for cars and drainage systems. Drainage systems are necessary in this rainy city.

I've had the worst pizza in New York and Chicago. And, I can't find a decent cup of coffee to save a life in New York City - a city that, supposedly, has everything.

Seattle has the tech infrastructure to allow most people to effectively and productively work from home. Use it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]kowboy
2006-11-29 08:07 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention Seattle residents are willing to pay for free WiFi they'll use every day of their lives but are hesitant to shell out $250k for equipment, maintenance, depreceation, storage, and personnel training they'll use twice a year. That's the thing about public services, you can't make money appear out of nowhere. If you spend money on more winter maintenance crews, you have to take money away from pot hole repair, sidewalk creation, or arborist services (and say goodbye to trees in downtown areas ... like Pioneer Square).

But hey, the snow is right now so what else could be more important?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]sgtred, 2006-11-29 08:31 pm UTC

[info]graphxgrrl
2006-11-29 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I have a set of chains in my trunk that I have never used. While I know how to put them on--I've never had a need because I rarely drive.

But having them is just common sense as far as I'm concerned--I've got a whole kit in my trunk of gear that I can use if I get stuck in the mountains or similar as well for the same reasons.

I'm always just flabbergasted by the lack of common sense that's lacking in people in general--no matter where they're from.

(Reply to this)


[info]speedofthought
2006-11-29 09:28 pm UTC (link)
It's hard to drive on ice.

Seattleites in general don't get this often enough to know what to do.

However, "the city is doing the best it can do," "it doesn't make sense to be more prepared than we are," or "plowing wouldn't help," are all FALSE statements.

What makes me mad is not that we aren't prepared, but that everyone retains the attitude that we cannot be more prepared even if we tried or that preparation doesn't make sense. How many lost work and school days has the city suffered? Road, power outage, or shut-in casualties? How much gas was burned up during 6 hour commutes? How many frozen roads will need to be replaced?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]comte
2006-11-30 08:47 pm UTC (link)
"What makes me mad is not that we aren't prepared, but that everyone retains the attitude that we cannot be more prepared even if we tried or that preparation doesn't make sense."

I don't think that's the prevailing attitude at all; it's more a question of what constitutes an ADEQUATE or REASONABLE level of preparedness. Overpreparedness is just as wasteful, if not more so, as underpreparedness. Everyone kvetching that we should have had more trucks available don't seem to recognize that these vehicles are very expense to purchase and maintain, plus you need drivers, maintenance crews, storage facilities, etc., all of which is money down the drain if you only get this sort of weather once every year or two, and for a couple of days at most.

As for allocating existing resources, the cities and counties do a pretty good job IMO of getting the trucks where they need to be. However, no matter how strategically they're distributed, they can't do much good on freeways already gridlocked with rush-hour commuters and football fans, as was the case Monday evening. Also, our unpredictable convergent zones make it nearly impossible to predict exactly where the greatest amount of snow will fall. Dispatchers probably made the best guesses they could, but that's all they could do - guess. So, with the freeways already gridlocked, somebody probably made the very sensible decision to redispatch trucks to clear in-city arterials instead, which, based on my observations, DID get proper treatment. But that just leads to more kvetching about how "all the roads in Seattle are clear - what's the problem?", etc.

And people STILL find reason to complain, because their residential streets weren't cleared. I don't know about others, but I'd get pretty upset if a truck DID try to sand my very narrow street with cars parked on either side! It's sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario: people complain about their streets not getting sanded, or they complain about the damage done to their vehicles if the truck accidentally scrapes it, take your pick.

"How many lost work and school days has the city suffered?"

The school days will be made up at the end of the year, so technically none were lost.

Work days are another story, but I'd guess, "not as many as people assume". Lots of people drove to work the past few days, and no doubt many others (like myself) took public transit or even walked to work instead. Those that didn't for the most part had very legitimate reasons for not doing so, like an inability to get out of frozen driveways, or down frozen hillsides. However, clearly some people used the weather as an excuse to play hookey, although obviously the city did NOT "shut down" or become "paralyzed" or anything of the sort.

"Road, power outage, or shut-in casualties?"

Although there were numerous accidents and minor injuries reported, the only major injury appears to have been a 60 year-old man who lost both his legs when struck by an out-of-control vehicle Monday evening on 509.

Snohomish PUD reported 16,000 without power Monday evening, mostly on Camano Island. Seattle City Light reported 4,600, and PSE about 10,000, mostly in Eastern King County. Nearly all had power restored by mid-day Tuesday. Hardly the worst we've seen recently.

The only reported fatalities attributable to the storm were two Port Angeles teenagers, who apparently succombed to carbon monoxide poisoning while refueling a portable gas generator in a sealed garage.

Although these are certainly tragic occurances, they fall far short of the apocalyse you seem to imply.

"How much gas was burned up during 6 hour commutes?"

Hard to say, not that this has any real negative economic impact, if again, that's what you're implying. What was bad for motorists was certainly good for gas stations, towing companies, auto shops, and 24-hour diners. Economically-speaking, I'd call it a wash.

"How many frozen roads will need to be replaced?"

Um, most likely none. Frozen roads tend to unfreeze quite well, with little or no physical damage to surfaces. If we used salt in these parts, you might have a case here, but otherwise, it's a moot point.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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