Stella Daily ([info]stellavision) wrote in [info]runners,
@ 2008-01-08 23:24:00
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Losing weight while running
This seems like a no-brainer, but for me it isn't.

I would like to lose about 10 lbs, both to look better and because I'd like to be carrying a bit less weight on my frame for marathon training in the fall. I'd been warned (don't remember if it was Runner's World or Hal Higdon's marathon training book) not to try losing weight *while* training for the marathon, because all the extra mileage makes you hungry, and you need to eat to refuel. So I didn't try when I trained for last year's marathon. I ended up losing about 5 lbs and a dress size anyway. At the moment I'm keeping it off, but I need to figure out how to get rid of 10 more while still having enough fuel to do maintenance mileage (currently about 22-25 miles/week).

The only weight loss program that has ever worked for me was Weight Watchers. (That and the Getting Dumped By Your Boyfriend Diet, which I don't recommend.) I counted points all the way to 25 pounds lost. (I have kept that weight off -- I once weighed over 200 lbs, and am now hovering around 150.) I'm trying to figure out how to make WW work while running. The calorie count is pretty darn low, which is why it works -- the high end of points for my weight works out to about 1350 calories/day, which ain't much. They say to add 1 point per 50 calories burned in a day, so I've been trying adding 2 points per mile run. This doesn't seem to work, though -- I'm always hungry, end up eating a few points beyond what I'm supposed to given this calculation, and I don't lose any weight.

So I'm wondering, have you tried actually dieting in addition to running? If so, what has worked for you to get you to lose weight and yet not feel starved all the time (especially on running days)? Any tips appreciated!

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[info]erismichelle
2008-01-09 05:12 am UTC (link)
I haven't tried dieting while running, but I've been losing weight anyway. Most of the weight loss came when I got up to the 20-mile-a-week range.

I suspect that if you maintain a relatively balanced diet, leaning slightly towards carbs (pasta! yum!), you're going to start losing weight again. Just keep in mind that the more you lose, the harder it will be to lose it, because you won't be burning as many calories for the same effort.

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[info]woodspryte
2008-01-09 05:48 am UTC (link)
You might want to take a look at Nancy Clarke's Food Guide for Marathoners.
It is my nutrition bible.

There is a section on weight loss and maintaining proper nutrition and fuel while running and training.

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[info]kushielsfire
2008-01-09 06:12 am UTC (link)
Right before I started running I weighed in the ballpark 200+lbs. I worked for an ice cream place and switched jobs to a toy store, just simply moving around was enough to help me lose probably about 10 pounds. I stepped on the scale at Christmas last year I was 195. When I started running in March, it helped jump-start my metabolism. I knew I wanted to lose weight though. My problem has always been portion control- I don't eat just a cookie, I'll eat the whole damned box of cookies; won't just eat a bowl of ice cream, I gotta have the whole thing. For breakfast I started eating a bowl of oatmeal(measured out by the little packets -anywhere between 170 and 200 calories or so). For lunch I started to buy those little tuna kits with crackers, mayo, and relish(approx 260 calories).. I'd also grab a Luna bar(approx 190 calories) and a Gatorade(200 calories if I drink the whole thing). So the first half of my day would ends up around 850 calories. (Occasionally I throw a small bag of chips into the mix... I'm addicted to salt!!!) I think 1350 is a bit low, especially if you're training.

I typically grab a light snack after work, just something to hold me over until dinner or a pre-run snack. And then after my run if dinner isn't ready to be eaten I'll drink some chocolate milk (yummy). Or I'll just sit down and eat dinner. Right now I weigh 166. I had a lot to lose. This year I hope to go for those last 10-15 pounds. But in reality I'm not looking at the pounds as much as I'm looking to be in the healthy BMI range (this will probably be difficult due to the ample 'girls' I have on top.)

Also please note if I felt really hungry, I would grab a small snack of something like trail mix or a piece of fruit. Another problem I have is eating out of boredom. Training myself to recognize when I was hungry vs. when I just wanted to entertain myself was tough. It helps to remind myself that food is energy.

Sorry for the length! Hope it helps.

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[info]triton_trojan
2008-01-09 06:18 am UTC (link)
I watch WHEN I eat - I eat fruit for breakfast, a large lunch (including carbs, protein,etc.), a banana before my run, then a small-calorie dinner (i eat a lean cuisine). Eating a big dinner at night is a bad idea, because you don't burn it off well while you sleep, rather it tends to be stored. Eating a big lunch should give you energy for an afternoon/evening run.

Also - drink a lot (water, tea) throughout the day to keep you hydrated AND full.

For snacks, I eat nuts - high protein and high in GOOD fats, and they sit in your stomach for a while, keeping you full.

Finally, go vegetarian - its a great way to cut bad fats, and you can get all the protein you need (yes, even for training!) from veggies, nuts, beans, etc.

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[info]tina_inara
2008-01-09 03:10 pm UTC (link)
Re: the dinner thing; it's actually a myth that eating a large dinner (or lots of evening calories) will cause you to gain weight. Studies have shown that the time of day you eat doesn't affect weight gain/loss; what actually matters is how many calories you are taking in per day. As long as you are taking in fewer than you are burning off, you will lose weight, no matter what time of day you take in those calories.

This makes sense when you think about it, if you consider that when eating a large evening meal after a run, you've already burned those calories off, so you don't need to burn them off after the meal. As long as that large meal isn't large enough to replace all of the calories you've burned during the day, you'll lose weight. If it replaces all of them without surpassing them, you'll maintain, and if it replaces all of them and then some, you'll gain.

I'd recommend a good calorie tracker like Fitday.com. (The online version is free, the downloaded version has more options, like being able to enter lots of custom foods, and recipes, for a fee. If you decide to go with the non-free version, I'd recommend registering for the free version first; I got a discount when I did that.) You can track your meals and calories burned, and make sure you're burning more calories off than you are taking in. You can also record diary entries (at least in the downloaded version, not sure about the free one) to record how hungry you felt on a given day, and compare it to your activity and calorie levels. That might help you figure out how much of a caloric deficit you can maintain per day without getting too hungry. (If you go with the free version, and it doesn't offer that option, I'd keep a separate paper diary, or an Excel spreadsheet or something, in which you can jot down your calories burned and taken in from Fitday, then record how hungry you felt.)

Edited at 2008-01-09 03:14 pm UTC

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[info]playertwo
2008-01-09 04:16 pm UTC (link)
+1

Just another one of the zillion myths surrounding fitness/nutrition/weight loss.

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[info]mdf356
2008-01-09 05:54 pm UTC (link)
Agreed it doesn't matter what time of day you eat, but the bodies feelings of hunger *are* affected by when you eat. This has been studied and "proven". In the study, those who ate more for breakfast at less for dinner -- more less than they ate more. I.e. eating a bigger breakfast can be a painless way to take in fewer calories.

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[info]tina_inara
2008-01-09 09:24 pm UTC (link)
*sigh* Not arguing against that point at all. In fact, I agree. I was ONLY correcting the false point that was made, which was that a large meal eaten in the evening would have less time to be burned off and would be more likely to cause weight gain. That's all. Nothing else. Please don't read more into it than it actually was.



Edited at 2008-01-09 09:27 pm UTC

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[info]elmyra
2008-01-09 08:48 am UTC (link)
Ultimately, to lose 1lb a week, you need roughly a 600 calory deficit a day. Adding 2 points per mile run seems about right, but it still leaves you with a calory deficit - so chances are you will be hungry. (Did not have that problem when you were originally on WW?)

There are a couple of tricks to make youself feel lass hungry. Eat protein-heavy meals: protein takes longer to digest and keeps you feeling full for longer. (Having said that, do try for a balanced diet and stick to lean protein like chicken and fish - none of this Atkins crap! ;-) Also, apparently the same amount of calories consumed in liquidised form (soup) will keep you full for longer because the extra water stays in your stomach with the nutrients while they're being digested. (Not sure but I think this mostly works with blended soups.) And don't forget all your zero-point snacks. I used to live on roast butternut squash and cherry tomatoes when I was on WW.

Having said all that, I did feel hungry a lot when I was on WW... ;-)

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[info]mdf356
2008-01-09 10:31 am UTC (link)
I don't know your height or frame type, but if you're really hungry when trying to lose more weight, it's possible you've reached the low point your body will accept.

E.g. my wife successfully lost 50+ pounds on Jenny Craig, but she cannot go below 175 (she's 5'7") without being hungry all the time. It's just where her body gets into starvation mode -- even if she's not starving technically. The weight loss to that point had been relatively easy after the first week; she got used to the reduced calories, etc., and wasn't even really hungry.

My point is that I want you to think about whether your body is telling you something about how it, specifically, works. It's possible 150 is just the lowest weight you can have without always being hungry. Dieting past that point isn't healthy because the brain kicks the metabolism into starvation mode, and then you use even *fewer* calories a day and have no energy.

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[info]stellavision
2008-01-09 11:26 am UTC (link)
Oh yeah...my height! That would help. I am 5'8". I definitely could stand to be leaner -- I have a fairly small frame for my height, with skinny wrists and ankles and all that. I'm sure other women who are as tall as I am might look quite a bit leaner than I do at the same weight.

Stupid evolutionary tendencies to hang onto fat! :P

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[info]mdf356
2008-01-09 12:03 pm UTC (link)
At 5'8" 150 you sound dreamy. Seriously.

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[info]ashwoman
2008-01-09 10:25 pm UTC (link)
150 is my dream, too. But it's likely a different dream. ;P

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[info]redrane
2008-01-10 12:31 am UTC (link)
ditto. ;)

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[info]madame_chuchita
2008-01-09 03:58 pm UTC (link)
Do you strength train? That alone could make all the difference in the world. At 5'8 and 150 you have a healthy BMI (I know, I hear it too and it doesn't mean squat when you don't feel that way, blah blah blah), so maybe weight loss shouldn't be more your goal--just tone up.

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[info]rawteeth
2008-01-09 06:06 pm UTC (link)
I second the idea of strength training to build muscle. You will increase your BMR this way, anyway, and it might be easier to lose a bit of weight.

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[info]ashwoman
2008-01-09 10:24 pm UTC (link)
Are you married to me? Hahaha...seriously. I was going to comment the same exact thing. If I'm not crazy active (and/or running lots), my body stays at 175-180, I am also 5'7". I'm not any less fit or healthy (and get mad kudos at the doc about my blood pressure), I don't change my diet (I eat very well, in fact). Everyone's body has that point where you either have to kick it into high gear or just accept it. I'm not a fan of calorie restriction if your diet is already A+ and you're a fit person. Especially with running.

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[info]erismichelle
2008-01-09 11:04 pm UTC (link)
I'm 5'6" and am currently at 154; two years ago, I was 175". I want to get down to 140 to 145, but I'm not going to diet to do that--just by running and other exercise, but eating a healthful diet.

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[info]ashwoman
2008-01-09 11:12 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, a lot of times it's just busting that exercise plateau and not eating less or better. :) Way to go on the loss, though, that's awesome. I'm shooting for 150-160...(160 if I end up liking my big muscles lol)

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[info]erismichelle
2008-01-09 11:15 pm UTC (link)
I weighed 133 the day I enlisted in the army, lo those many years ago, and was 3/4 inch taller than I am now. I think that 133 would be too low for me now, though.

If I could only get rid of this gut... *sigh* But my waist has shrunk; I can tell by the holes in my belt.

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[info]tempobay
2008-01-09 11:39 am UTC (link)
I've never really strictly dieted, but in my quest to eat healthier, I did keep a food journal for awhile. It was interesting to note just how much food I ate, and once I made sure I was eating a healthy amount of healthier foods, I started to feel better. Not sure if I lost weight necessarily, but I wasn't really aiming for that.

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[info]clmcormick
2008-01-09 12:57 pm UTC (link)
At 5'8" and 150 pounds, you are within the healthy range for your height. Why the need to go 10 pounds lower? personal preference? a doctor told you so? your pre-weight gain clothes still don't fit?

You know, there are people my height who weigh 20, 30, even 40 pounds less than I do, but you know what, my body just can't hack that low of a weight. I'm 5'6" and my final weight after reaching, actually exceeding my weight loss goal, was 145. Even with marathon training, I lost not another pound but my body fat percentage went way, way down. Look at this picture...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/clmcormick/NewMe.jpg That was two weeks pre-marathon. Seriously, had I actually tried to lose anymore weight, I would've had to literally starve myself. My hip bones stuck out, my abs were flat as a pancake, but my body was very toned from cross-training and doing weights. I was very healthy. Would I have loved a smaller number on the scale? Sure, deep down inside the narcissistic part of me wants 125 or some insane number like that. However, my body just doesn't do that. I taught myself to be happy at a size 8 and 145 pounds...a size and weight I hadn't seen since high school.

So, the question for you is....why 10 more pounds??

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[info]clmcormick
2008-01-09 01:01 pm UTC (link)
But I also want to mention that running and careful food intake was how I lost 40 pounds in 2004 to begin with. Yes, I cross-trained and did weight workouts 2-3 days a week in addition to running, but the running really made a difference especially once I started training for the Army Ten Miler. ;)

I educated myself a lot on proper nutrition for runners and, while I was careful with what I ate, I never starved myself.

Remember that your body needs a certain number of calories to even sustain your current weight on a normal day. When you add in exercise of any kind, your daily calorie needs increase. If you aren't consuming enough to allow for that physical activity PLUS your daily living calorie needs, your body will go into starvation mode.

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[info]swingbug21
2008-01-09 01:08 pm UTC (link)
girl you look GREAT at 145!

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[info]stellavision
2008-01-09 01:35 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I know I'm in the "healthy" range, and it's not that I'm *unhappy* with my weight. (I'm certainly happier with the way my body looks than before I started marathon training!) I know there are women who are my height and weight who have very toned, fit bodies. I'm not quite one of them -- although I am tall, I have a small frame. So if I were toned and fit all over, I'd be considerably smaller -- this is most obvious in my belly area, which is flabby and not at all toned. My body fat percentage is about 23, which is again healthy but not ideal.

So, I'm definitely not trying to be Kate Moss (I don't like that look either!) but that's about how much I think I need to lose in order to have my weight match my frame size. Plus I think it would help me pick up a little speed when running.

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[info]madeofstarss
2008-01-09 02:28 pm UTC (link)
If you want to lose more fat and be more toned, why don't you try a weight training regimine? I got down to my goal weight and wanted to tone more, so I started adding heavier weights to my routine. I actually GAINED five pounds back - but don't freak out - my body LOOKS way better than it did when I was five pounds less, because I gained all muscle. Your body might be hanging on to stored fat, but when you gain more muscle, your metabolism speeds up so much! So I'd say, don't worry about necessarily eating less (and if you're truly hungry, your body needs more fuel). Try getting yourself to the point where you're comfortably full and then eating salads and veggies for snacks.
And lift! It helps your running and gives you sexy definition.

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[info]saladbar
2008-01-09 05:31 pm UTC (link)
You probably just need a good pilates and yoga program, mixed in with some weights. Never underestimated how much toned arms and abs works on the psyche.

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[info]swingbug21
2008-01-09 01:06 pm UTC (link)
I agree with a few of the others. 5'8" and 150 lbs is pretty thin (no not skinny, but who really likes that).

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[info]stellavision
2008-01-09 01:24 pm UTC (link)
Not on me, unfortunately...I'm half Chinese and I got the height from my white dad and the birdlike Asian bones from my mother. So I'm tall, but have a small frame. It's not that I'm unhappy at my current weight, but I could definitely stand to lose a little jiggle in the tummy.

Mostly, though, it's that I think I could run a little faster if I were carrying less fat (I'm at about 23% body fat right now, which again is healthy but not the best I can do). I'm kind of a penguin as it is now and I'd love to pick up a little speed.

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[info]swingbug21
2008-01-09 04:41 pm UTC (link)
hehe, i hear ya. i got that jiggle during grad school. no exercise + copious amts of (necessary) alcohol = 20lbs :-P

Hopefully, I'll be getting back on track soon. But no running for a month+ b/c I hurt my back :'(, at least i'm allowed to bike, swim, and maybe the elliptical.

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[info]chemdebem
2008-01-09 01:11 pm UTC (link)
First, I would like to second the efficiency and pain of the "My Boyfriend that I loved very much dumped me" Diet. Worked wonders for me, but killed my running routine in the process. I JUST got back on the road and I am definitely feeling the loss of cardio strength.

That being said, I am not sure how much it helps with weight loss, but I am mostly vegan and eat pretty much only whole grains and foods. I feel better because I take better poops--seriously. If you eat a good combo of carbs and fiber, your body will be amped for running and you won't have stomach/intestinal problems that make you feel bloaty.

I have also read, mainly in scientific journals, that a breakfast of oatmeal is one of the best possible ways to start the day (after getting lots of sleep). There is a caveat, it must be rolled oats (as in whole oats), because the stuff in packets and quick oats are already a bit processed and move through your system more quickly. If you eat whole grains, you stay full longer. Not to mention, good fuel for running.

Good luck. I am at about 163 and 5'7" and still am not happy with my weight as well. The weight has become a number though, and for the most part, I am loving my new running bod. :)

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[info]rawteeth
2008-01-09 06:09 pm UTC (link)
What's the difference between quick and rolled oats in terms of what it's made of and how you prepare it?

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[info]chemdebem
2008-01-09 06:16 pm UTC (link)
There are many ways that stores sell oats. The main differences is flavored and not (go for NOT) and the cut. They can be uncut (best, this is what is called rolled), steel cut (a little more finely cut), and so-called "quick oats) which are finely chopped. All need to be prepped with water or milk (or soy or rice milk), but rolled oats require more boiling time. That's all!

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[info]saralinds
2008-01-09 11:26 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention adding some cinnamon that does wonders in keeping you full for quite few hours! :)

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[info]mb_smith
2008-01-09 02:46 pm UTC (link)
I've lost a total of about 28 pounds running and doing Weight Watchers, and I want to lose a total of 30 but with the increase in mileage I'm having the same problem that you are in that I'm hungry all the time, so I'm losing that extra two pounds! I'm still doing the points system because I only have two pounds to go (plus I love bread!), but have you looked into the core system? It's a really healthy alternative to the points and works well for runners because it teaches you how to incorporate healthy foods in moderation into your diet without worrying about counting. Anyway, just a thought, hope it helps!

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[info]chiken_nugget
2008-01-09 03:43 pm UTC (link)
I didn't lose anything when I was training for a marathon last year. I think it was a couple lbs here or there but I noticed muscle gain as well. I need to get back into running and eating right again. I kinda fell off there during the holidays!

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[info]kmkmom
2008-01-09 03:49 pm UTC (link)
If you're satisfied with your weight but want to tone up, I would suggest some strength training, too.

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[info]moomily
2008-01-09 03:53 pm UTC (link)
The only thing that has worked for me is to not diet, honestly. I try to pay attention to my body and eat when I’m hungry and stop when I’m full. I dieted for years and years and struggled to drop each pound, but I wasn't listening to my body at all. I was eating according to a plan, regardless of what I wanted or needed. Once I started eating according to my needs and not some plan, I lost weight and my weight stabilized at a place I'm okay with. I'd like to be thinner, but I also realize that just might not be in the cards for me.

Eating more has actually helped too, ironically. If you are not eating enough, you will lose muscle tone, which will result in a flabby appearance. 1350 calories doesn't sound like enough for an active person to me. I have a small frame too, so I know what you mean about your body not fitting your frame. Even though size-wize I haven't changed a whole lot, I am less flabby now and I look more proportional. And I only lost fat when I started eating more.

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[info]feeble_knees
2008-01-09 08:51 pm UTC (link)
I am right there with ya. After years of dieting, I have found that just by eating when I'm hungry and stopping when I'm full I can maintain and even lose a bit. Before eating this way, I tortured myself trying to diet, and STAYED THE SAME WEIGHT. I have only eaten this way for just over a month, but I LOVE IT, and with the combination of running/training, I am NOT gaining weight, I am for the most part maintaining what is a very healthy weight. My body seems to get more and more toned, and while I would like to lose another 10 pounds, too, I look better now than I have in years...

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[info]mightymezzo73
2008-01-09 04:22 pm UTC (link)
I have been on Weight Watchers for the entire time I have been running (started WW in August '06 and running in October '06). In that time I have lost about 56 pounds as well as run a half marathon. I am now about 8 lbs away from my goal weight (or maybe 13 if I decide if I want to eke out another 5 lbs). I'm also 5'8" and my goal is 155 lbs or maybe 150. We'll see. I don't think I could go much lower than 150 given my large frame and amount of musculature.

While I was training for my half marathon last year I experienced hunger pangs unlike anything I had ever felt before. Since eating everything in sight to alleviate those pangs would be counter to my continued desire to lose weight on WW, I took to keeping bulky, fiber-rich but low-calorie snacks around for when the hunger got to be too much. Apples and I became very good friends. Also, soy milk turned out to be surprisingly good at tiding me over between my arrival at home after work and dinner time. Nuts, dried soybeans, baby carrots, snack-size pita rounds and a bit of hummus, other fresh fruits, etc, all helped me stay satisfied throughout the day. Sometimes, though, if I was mad because I had posted a gain at weigh-in that week, I would just ignore the hunger and fill my stomach with water. I just willpowered my way past it.

I also never calculated WW Activity Points and added them to my daily Points range. I decided that being able to eat more because I was exercising was not the answer for me.

Since within the next month I will begin training for my next half marathon and later this year I will train for a full marathon I will have to dust off my snacks and get ready for that all-consuming hunger.

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[info]madrasi_in_mo
2008-01-09 05:17 pm UTC (link)
After childbirth, I lost about 40lbs by running and making changes to my diet. I now weigh 142 lbs (5ft5in). The great thing was that I could wear jeans one size less than my pre-pregnancy one!


Now, I tried to lose more weight, as I had been around 132 lbs some years ago, when I was 28 years old. But as someone earlier mentioned, (mdf356), my body seems to go into starvation mode.

I have been trying to go cycling for longer distances and plan on trying inline skating (something I new to - so this should burn a lot of calories initially). Running seems to take lesser and lesser effort and at this point, I cannot increase my mileage by much.

Losing the 10lbs that you wish to lose is going to take a long time - 1lb a week may be very difficult, so you'll have to be patient. You'll have to do weight training and cross training and make lots of changes to your running (fartleks, for instance), to shock your body into burning more calories.

And one more thing - on days when I have my long run, I eat a hearty breakfast and a hearty lunch and skimp on dinner. I have been managing to cut a few calories (about 100) by eating a big bowl of vegetables and some fruit, for dinner. But this does not work all the time! There are some nights when I wake up mighty hungry and end up grabbing a snack!

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[info]fourlipskissing
2008-01-09 06:35 pm UTC (link)
I'm a Weight Watcher.

I had been on Weight Watchers for a year before I started running in February 2006. I had lost 85 pounds but gained back about 10. Then I started training for the NYC Marathon and stopped going to WW because it was too difficult to balance the two.

I'd walk into my WW meeting and tell my leader that I'd just run 20 miles and she looked at me like I was insane. Just how do you calculate that into your Points Booster!!??

Anyway, the moral of the story is that it's hard to do both. I actually gained 15 more pounds during marathon training. I'm now back at WW, trying to get back to where I was in February 2006. It's hard.

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[info]mightymezzo73
2008-01-09 08:25 pm UTC (link)
Did you know there's a daily limit to the amount of Activity Points you can use? Really! I wish I could say I knew exactly what it was (the numbers 4 and 7 keep banging around in my head) but it says so somewhere in the WW literature.

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[info]fourlipskissing
2008-01-10 01:14 pm UTC (link)
Wow! I had no freakin' clue!! Thanks!

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[info]fourlipskissing
2008-01-10 03:54 pm UTC (link)
I just checked with my buddies over at Bootcamp Buddies, a WW forum, and they said there is no cap on APs. They say it's a myth.

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[info]mightymezzo73
2008-01-10 04:54 pm UTC (link)
Well, then, good to know! Maybe that brain nugget was from looking at my mom's first-generation activity points counter (she was on WW back in 2000).

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[info]redtruckgirl
2008-01-10 01:30 am UTC (link)
Body for Life for Women by Pamela Peeke (it's a book) has an eating plan that's similar to WW but has an eating plan for active people and less active people.

If you google body for life for women and pamela peeke, you should come up with a website where she has meal plans and eatin journals for printing.

good luck!

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[info]i_amjackscolon
2008-01-11 12:52 am UTC (link)
wow, you should definitely give yourself more than that on WW.
my mom does that, and she gets like. 3 points for walking 30 mins.
i think running is like, 6 or 7 points per hour.
they should have an exercize counter on the back of the calorie one.

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