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Kibble isn't real food.
Created on 2003-09-12 14:32:39 (#1321208), last updated 2009-12-02
17,859 comments received
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2,209 Journal Entries, 11 Tags, 35 Memories, 0 Virtual Gifts, 2 Userpics
Basic Info| Name: | Raw Pets |
|---|---|
| Website: | Starting Point for New Raw Feeders. |
| Membership: | Open |
| Posting Access: | Anybody |
AboutThe purpose of this community is fairly simple.
It's designed for people who feed or are interested in feeding their dogs and/or cats a kibble & processed food free diet.
Basic Community Rules
Read them. Learn them. Follow them. Do these things BEFORE you post.
Feeding a raw diet, provided you do your research first, is one of the best things you can do for your furry little carnivore.
If your pet has chronic allergies, digestive problems, skin problems, coat problems, or weight problems, feeding raw can also help.
Nearly every health problem in dogs, cats and ferrets (and people for that matter!) can be traced directly back to the quality of the diet fed.
While there are some brands of kibble that are better than others, nearly all kibble is based on or uses cooked grains.
Cooked grains of any kind are an unnecessary part of the canine and feline diets, and are generally not healthy for them at all.
Why grain is unnecessary and unhealthy for carnivores:
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sampleraw.htm
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fatpets.htm#grains
http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/nograin.shtml
http://renegadecanaandogs.com/diet/fresh_raw_food.asp
http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/grains-in-pet-food.htm
Kymythy R. Schultze, C.C.N, A.H.I., says the following regarding grains. From her book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
General BARF/Raw Feeding links:
The most common 'negative' article new people to raw feeding come across is found here
Personally, I put little merit in it as very few sources are cited, and the author has many BAD misconceptions of the diet and cites examples from people who were feeding the diet improperly or incorrectly. The article mentions "proof" and "research" yet provides little to none.
If nothing else, kibble is the fad diet, not raw.
Kibble has only been around for about 100 years; dogs, cats and ferrets have been eating raw, whole prey, bones, and all of those "bad' things for millions of years.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst has an excellent rebuttal to the previous article.
Rawfed.com also has a wonderful rebuttal to the outright lies and false claims of the article from My Blue Dog.
Some highly recommended books on dog & cat diet:
Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats: The Ultimate Pet Diet
by Kymythy R. Schultze
Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats (while most of the information in this book is good where holistic health care is concerned, I don't care for the diet section. Most of it is cooked and is based heavily on grains, which are wholly unnecessary.)
Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health
by Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Work Wonders
by Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Home-Prepared Dog & Cat Diets: the Healthful Alternative
by Donald R. Strombeck
K9 Kitchen Your Dogs' Diet: The Truth Behind The Hype
by Monica Segal
Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog
by Wendy Volhard & Kerry Brown, DVM
Raw Dog Food: Make it Easy for You and Your Dog
by Carina Beth MacDonald - This one is ESPECIALLY good for beginners and has a chapter devoted to dispelling the myths and overhyped ''risks'' surrounding raw diet.
Food Pets Die For
by Ann N. Martin (NOTE: She is not an advocate of raw, and her info on raw diet is terrible and full of many misconceptions and false statements, but it's a good book to show to kibble feeders nonetheless. After reading this, no animal lover would want to feed those 'vet recommended' kibbles.)
Give Your Dog a Bone: The Practical Commonsense Way to Feed Dogs for a Healthy Life
by Dr. Ian Billinghurst
Grow Your Pups with Bones: BARF Programme for Breeding Healthy Dogs and Eliminating Skeletal Disease
by Dr. Ian Billinghurst
Switching to Raw
by Susan K. Johnson
Sitstay.com has a decently sized list of raw feeding books as well.
For ferret owners: Ferrets for Dummies has a decent section on diet, and it provides a decent starting point for raw diet.
Some RAW food brands that do not contain grains, fillers, or 'mysterious' meats. However, as with any pre-made food, check the ingredients to make sure they don't contain anything that your pet is allergic to; this is especially important if your have a pet with pre-existing food sensitivities. Also remember that pre-made raw diets, while nutritionally complete, do not provide any dental benefit as there is no whole bone to be crushed and scrape the teeth clean.:
Oma's Pride Raw Meat Mixes
Bravo Raw Diets
Dr. Billinghurst's BARF Patties
Steve's Real Food Complete Raw Diet
Nature's Variety
Online sources for whole prey, RMBs, raw treats, organ meats, and more exotic meats/parts.
Hare Today: Rabbit, quail, chicken, goat, beef, and other miscellaneous things. My dogs LOVE their dehydrated rabbit ears and feet.
RodentPro - Mice (all sizes), rats (all sizes), quail (day old to fully mature & feathered), chicks and rabbits. Decent shipping prices.
Big Cheese Rodents - Mice (all sizes) and Rats (all sizes)
Mice On Ice - Mice & rats. I've heard they're one of the best, but they tend to cater toward pet stores and hobbyists who order large qtys of mice/rats at a time. Might not be economical if you don't need large orders.
Big Apple Herp - Mice, rats, quail, chicks, rabbits.
SAS Supply Online - Chicks, mice and rats.
Gourmet Rodent - Mice, rats, rabbits and chicks.
The Mouse Factory - Mice and rats.
Feeder Goldfish @ Aquatic Foods - Feeder goldfish (my ferrets LOVE these! I put them in a shallow dish and just let them go nuts)
STILL not convinced? Look at your dog/cat/ferret's teeth! Do those teeth look like they were meant to grind dry cereal and vegetables...or do they look like they where designed to tear flesh from bone and grind bone to pulp?
At any rate, feel free to join and ask questions (But, please, read through the community info, posts, memories and links provided first; chances are your question will have been answered already in one of those places.), post testamonials, book recommendations, site recommendations, pictures (under an lj-cut please!), and recipes!
Related Communities
![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/community.gif)
uncooked - Raw diet for humans.
dog_tales - General dog community.
ferretlovers - General ferret community.
ferretattitude - Like ferretlovers, only with less stupidpetowners-worthy content.
doghealth - Dog health community.
cathealth - Cat health community.
cat_lovers - General cat community.
breedists_no - Those against stereotyping "bad" breeds. There are no bad dogs, but there are many thousands of bad owners. Legislate them instead.
holisticpets - For those who prefer holistic treatment over or in addition to conventional.
dog_breeders - For responsible dog breeders. If you're looking for a puppy from a good breeder, check there.
grain_free - For people who feed their carnivorous pets (dogs, cats, ferrets, carnivorous fish, and any miscellaney I've forgotten) a grain free diet. Not necessarily raw, just grain free.
![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif)
tviokh is the community maintainer.
She dislikes speaking of herself in the third person, and will switch tenses now.
See my own lj bio for more info.
Relevant raw info, however...
Of my pets who eat a raw, species appropriate diet, we have:
2 dogs ages 3 1/2 and 4.
3 cats ages 9, 13, and 19.
1 ferret age 4.
3 freshwater aquariums
1 marine aquarium
1 rat, 3 1/2.
7 birds (3 cockatiels, 3 budgies, 2 lovebird)
1 rosehair tarantula
1 guinea pig
All of my pets are fed a diet that is as close to what they'd eat naturally as I can obtain.
The ferrets' diet is exclusively whole prey.
The dogs and cats get "frankenprey" supplemented with whole prey (whole prey is pricy, people :) ).
The reptiles and arachnids eat exclusively live insects and worms.
The rats are fed like predatory omnivores; raw plant matter, raw seeds, raw grains, whole prey, insects, grubs and worms. The mouse is fed in a similar fashion.
The birds are fed a base of raw grains, raw seeds, and raw nuts as a base and are heavily supplemented with raw vegetables and fruits.
The fish are mainly fed commercially available frozen foods both meat/animal based and vegetable based as I have omnivorous and herbivorous fish.
The guinea pig is fed like the strict herbivore that she is.
I also eat a mostly raw diet; on good days I'm about 85% raw & I am not vegetarian or vegan which means I DO include some raw meat and dairy in my diet. Not an issue for me as growing up we always snacked on raw chicken, turkey, fish and beef. It never dawned on me until meeting my husband that this was considered "icky" by people. *shrug*
That all said, my meat intake is very small overall.
It's designed for people who feed or are interested in feeding their dogs and/or cats a kibble & processed food free diet.
Basic Community Rules
Read them. Learn them. Follow them. Do these things BEFORE you post.
Feeding a raw diet, provided you do your research first, is one of the best things you can do for your furry little carnivore.
If your pet has chronic allergies, digestive problems, skin problems, coat problems, or weight problems, feeding raw can also help.
Nearly every health problem in dogs, cats and ferrets (and people for that matter!) can be traced directly back to the quality of the diet fed.
While there are some brands of kibble that are better than others, nearly all kibble is based on or uses cooked grains.
Cooked grains of any kind are an unnecessary part of the canine and feline diets, and are generally not healthy for them at all.
Why grain is unnecessary and unhealthy for carnivores:
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sampleraw.htm
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fatpets.htm#grains
http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/nograin.shtml
http://renegadecanaandogs.com/diet/fresh_raw_food.asp
http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/grains-in-pet-food.htm
Kymythy R. Schultze, C.C.N, A.H.I., says the following regarding grains. From her book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
''Dogs and cats have no nutritional need for grains. Carbohydrates or energy from grains is not required by dogs and cats. Fats are their best, species-appropriate source of energy, and they are also able to derive energy needs from protein. Energy is the ''fuel'' that sustains life and all bodily functions.
Wild prey animal stomachs may contain grasses, bark, insects, roots, nuts, seeds, and other plant matter - but not modern grain, unless the animal was grazing previously in a field of domesticated grain. Even so, the majority of our dogs' and cats' evolutionary history, which formed their physiology, did not include prey animals that ate grain. Grains were domesticated and used as a staple in some human cultures only recently in evolutionary history, so prey animals and predators did not have access to them until that time. And domesticated grains differ structurally from wild grains. Everything about our dogs' and cats' anatomy dictates that they are not natural grain eaters.
Grains break down into sugar within the body and can supply nourishment for yeast overgrowth. Grains are also mucus-forming and may contribute to many health problems including allergies, ear infections, skin problems, bloating, joint problems, malabsorption, and digestive disorders. Dr. Russell Swift, a nutritionally oriented veterinarian, feels that feeding grains to carnivores weakens their immune systems and pancreas and may also lead to dental calculus. For cats and dogs, a good source of energy within a truly natural diet can be secured with raw fat and protein, not unnartual grain carbohydrates.''
General BARF/Raw Feeding links:
- BARF World - Dr. Billinghurst's BARF Diet
- Bones and Raw Food
- barfer's home page
- Many BARF Links
- Alternatives 4 Pets, Inc.
- Frequently Asked Questions about Biologically Appropriate Raw Food or the B.A.R.F.diet for pets.
- Rawfed.com
- Is A Raw Meat Diet Dangerous?
- Raw Fed Dogs Be sure to check out the FAQ for the "meat grinder" pictures.
- This post has a lot of great cat specific links.
- Ferret Natural Health Care and Optimum Diet
- Learn how easy it is to feed raw!
- Raw Dog Ranch
- Raw Meaty Bones. Dr. Lonsdale's site.
- How expensive is this?
- Natural Ferrets. A ferret specific raw feeding list. If you have ferrets, join this list! They have hundreds of raw ferret owners there, and I think we've just got a small handful here. :)
- Raw Fed for Life. One of Yahoo's smaller raw feeding lists. Good if you don't like the high traffic of the larger lists.
- Raw Cat. A cat specific raw feeding group on Yahoo.
- The Truth About Vaccines. Vaccines for your pets may not be as safe as you think.
- Nature's Intent. A mid-sized raw feeding list.
- Nature's Variety. A company that makes frozen raw meals, dehydrated raw food, 'regular' kibble, and grain free kibble.
- RawFedCats.org A cat specific raw feeding site.
The most common 'negative' article new people to raw feeding come across is found here
Personally, I put little merit in it as very few sources are cited, and the author has many BAD misconceptions of the diet and cites examples from people who were feeding the diet improperly or incorrectly. The article mentions "proof" and "research" yet provides little to none.
If nothing else, kibble is the fad diet, not raw.
Kibble has only been around for about 100 years; dogs, cats and ferrets have been eating raw, whole prey, bones, and all of those "bad' things for millions of years.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst has an excellent rebuttal to the previous article.
Rawfed.com also has a wonderful rebuttal to the outright lies and false claims of the article from My Blue Dog.
Some highly recommended books on dog & cat diet:
Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats: The Ultimate Pet Diet
by Kymythy R. Schultze
Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats (while most of the information in this book is good where holistic health care is concerned, I don't care for the diet section. Most of it is cooked and is based heavily on grains, which are wholly unnecessary.)
Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health
by Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Work Wonders
by Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Home-Prepared Dog & Cat Diets: the Healthful Alternative
by Donald R. Strombeck
K9 Kitchen Your Dogs' Diet: The Truth Behind The Hype
by Monica Segal
Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog
by Wendy Volhard & Kerry Brown, DVM
Raw Dog Food: Make it Easy for You and Your Dog
by Carina Beth MacDonald - This one is ESPECIALLY good for beginners and has a chapter devoted to dispelling the myths and overhyped ''risks'' surrounding raw diet.
Food Pets Die For
by Ann N. Martin (NOTE: She is not an advocate of raw, and her info on raw diet is terrible and full of many misconceptions and false statements, but it's a good book to show to kibble feeders nonetheless. After reading this, no animal lover would want to feed those 'vet recommended' kibbles.)
Give Your Dog a Bone: The Practical Commonsense Way to Feed Dogs for a Healthy Life
by Dr. Ian Billinghurst
Grow Your Pups with Bones: BARF Programme for Breeding Healthy Dogs and Eliminating Skeletal Disease
by Dr. Ian Billinghurst
Switching to Raw
by Susan K. Johnson
Sitstay.com has a decently sized list of raw feeding books as well.
For ferret owners: Ferrets for Dummies has a decent section on diet, and it provides a decent starting point for raw diet.
Some RAW food brands that do not contain grains, fillers, or 'mysterious' meats. However, as with any pre-made food, check the ingredients to make sure they don't contain anything that your pet is allergic to; this is especially important if your have a pet with pre-existing food sensitivities. Also remember that pre-made raw diets, while nutritionally complete, do not provide any dental benefit as there is no whole bone to be crushed and scrape the teeth clean.:
Oma's Pride Raw Meat Mixes
Bravo Raw Diets
Dr. Billinghurst's BARF Patties
Steve's Real Food Complete Raw Diet
Nature's Variety
Online sources for whole prey, RMBs, raw treats, organ meats, and more exotic meats/parts.
Hare Today: Rabbit, quail, chicken, goat, beef, and other miscellaneous things. My dogs LOVE their dehydrated rabbit ears and feet.
RodentPro - Mice (all sizes), rats (all sizes), quail (day old to fully mature & feathered), chicks and rabbits. Decent shipping prices.
Big Cheese Rodents - Mice (all sizes) and Rats (all sizes)
Mice On Ice - Mice & rats. I've heard they're one of the best, but they tend to cater toward pet stores and hobbyists who order large qtys of mice/rats at a time. Might not be economical if you don't need large orders.
Big Apple Herp - Mice, rats, quail, chicks, rabbits.
SAS Supply Online - Chicks, mice and rats.
Gourmet Rodent - Mice, rats, rabbits and chicks.
The Mouse Factory - Mice and rats.
Feeder Goldfish @ Aquatic Foods - Feeder goldfish (my ferrets LOVE these! I put them in a shallow dish and just let them go nuts)
STILL not convinced? Look at your dog/cat/ferret's teeth! Do those teeth look like they were meant to grind dry cereal and vegetables...or do they look like they where designed to tear flesh from bone and grind bone to pulp?
At any rate, feel free to join and ask questions (But, please, read through the community info, posts, memories and links provided first; chances are your question will have been answered already in one of those places.), post testamonials, book recommendations, site recommendations, pictures (under an lj-cut please!), and recipes!
Related Communities
uncooked - Raw diet for humans.dog_tales - General dog community.ferretlovers - General ferret community.ferretattitude - Like ferretlovers, only with less stupidpetowners-worthy content.doghealth - Dog health community.cathealth - Cat health community.cat_lovers - General cat community.breedists_no - Those against stereotyping "bad" breeds. There are no bad dogs, but there are many thousands of bad owners. Legislate them instead.holisticpets - For those who prefer holistic treatment over or in addition to conventional.dog_breeders - For responsible dog breeders. If you're looking for a puppy from a good breeder, check there.grain_free - For people who feed their carnivorous pets (dogs, cats, ferrets, carnivorous fish, and any miscellaney I've forgotten) a grain free diet. Not necessarily raw, just grain free.tviokh is the community maintainer. She dislikes speaking of herself in the third person, and will switch tenses now.
See my own lj bio for more info.
Relevant raw info, however...
Of my pets who eat a raw, species appropriate diet, we have:
2 dogs ages 3 1/2 and 4.
3 cats ages 9, 13, and 19.
1 ferret age 4.
3 freshwater aquariums
1 marine aquarium
1 rat, 3 1/2.
7 birds (3 cockatiels, 3 budgies, 2 lovebird)
1 rosehair tarantula
1 guinea pig
All of my pets are fed a diet that is as close to what they'd eat naturally as I can obtain.
The ferrets' diet is exclusively whole prey.
The dogs and cats get "frankenprey" supplemented with whole prey (whole prey is pricy, people :) ).
The reptiles and arachnids eat exclusively live insects and worms.
The rats are fed like predatory omnivores; raw plant matter, raw seeds, raw grains, whole prey, insects, grubs and worms. The mouse is fed in a similar fashion.
The birds are fed a base of raw grains, raw seeds, and raw nuts as a base and are heavily supplemented with raw vegetables and fruits.
The fish are mainly fed commercially available frozen foods both meat/animal based and vegetable based as I have omnivorous and herbivorous fish.
The guinea pig is fed like the strict herbivore that she is.
I also eat a mostly raw diet; on good days I'm about 85% raw & I am not vegetarian or vegan which means I DO include some raw meat and dairy in my diet. Not an issue for me as growing up we always snacked on raw chicken, turkey, fish and beef. It never dawned on me until meeting my husband that this was considered "icky" by people. *shrug*
That all said, my meat intake is very small overall.
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