Moon-Mad Eyes - Eyebrows like flakes of sunlight ([info]madnesspassing) wrote in [info]ratties,
@ 2003-08-31 22:27:00
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Entry tags:breeding

Before you Breed
All the sudden there's a massive "I want to breed my rats" outbreak... and it's mainly coming from people have neither the resources, funds nor permission to raise a litter
and who probably haven't made any plans past the birth of the litter. This trend has been bothering me, another member and a former member for awhile now so we’ve compiled a list of “things to have/do before you breed.” Please contact me if you feel there are any errors or something has been left out.
Hopefully this can become a resource to include in the FAQ.



Things You Should Have/Do Before Breeding Rats



1. Responsibility/accountability.
This means having permission from those who are superior to you. If guardian(s) say NO, they mean NO.
Sneaking around behind their backs is really irresponsible and disrespectful. They have a reason for saying no - if you think it’s unfair then it’s your responsibility to prove to them that you are capable of caring for the mother and the litter. Not having their approval can lead to disastrous results. They’ll have reason not to trust you and restrict you even further and may even make you get rid of all the rats.

2. Access to a reliable veterinarian.
A vet who is knowledgeable about rats, both pregnant and newborns as well as everyday issues regarding rats. This *also* includes having both the money and the transportation to get to the vet. As many can tell you, vet bills add up quickly and some cases cannot be put off while you try to coax someone into taking you to the vet.

3. Having a plan.
A plan for what will happen once the babies are born, which means having homes/accommodations set up before the doe has even been mated. This also includes having the time/money/space etc. to care for all of the babies for the remainder of their days. Even if you find homes for all of them, a responsible breeder is prepared to take back animals if their new owners cannot care for them anymore. Many breeders of various species won't breed until they have a waiting list of reliable people that exceeds the maximum litter/clutch size for that species.

4. Knowledge of the breeding pair's genetic background.
This means if you got the rat from a pet store, they’re of undetermined lineage and should not be bred. It doesn’t matter if your doe or buck is pretty or sweet; if you don’t know her/his family line, DON’T breed her/him.

5. Reason for breeding.
There are hundreds upon hundreds of rats needing homes. Why create another litter when there are too many already out there, waiting to be adopted or fed to a snake. Why are you breeding? What characteristics are you hoping to bring out? Why is it essential that you make a new litter?

6. Be prepared for the worst.
Pregnancy can kill or permanently harm the mother, and some or all of the babies may be deformed/stillborn, etc. Shelters are full of deaf, blind, crippled and otherwise "damaged" and unwanted animals.

7. Be confident in your ability to sex the babies and separate them by the time they are able to reproduce, but not before they can safely leave the mother.

See also this page from an established rattery. (Thanks, [info]blackthorn45 for the link)


(37 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]porknbeans
2003-08-31 08:32 pm UTC (link)
Here here!

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[info]madnesspassing
2003-08-31 08:36 pm UTC (link)
anything i should add?

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[info]porknbeans
2003-08-31 08:40 pm UTC (link)
I thought the first point the most overlooked. I'm glad you put that in there.

Nothing to add!:-)

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[info]blackthorn45
2003-08-31 08:45 pm UTC (link)
http://www.feycat.net/blue-velvet/rattery.html

Might have a couple more things to add..

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[info]madnesspassing
2003-08-31 08:56 pm UTC (link)
Thanks, added it at the bottom of the post.

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[info]blackthorn45
2003-08-31 09:03 pm UTC (link)
You're welcome. :) I'm glad you decided to post this!

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[info]madnesspassing
2003-08-31 09:05 pm UTC (link)
i can't help but think it's a little too late though.. someone here already "accidentally" bred without permission from guardians. But if we can prevent it from happening again, I guess that's made it worth it all.

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[info]blackthorn45
2003-08-31 09:11 pm UTC (link)
Well, it's probably too late for more than we'd care to know about. But hopefully it'll do some good in dissuading as many or more in the future from breeding.. I don't see how anyone reading all that could keep from thinking twice.

I definately think this info should go on the main page somewhere, or at least big apparant links to it. :)

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[info]katielouwho
2003-09-01 12:41 pm UTC (link)
who accidently bred?

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[info]madnesspassing
2003-09-01 03:23 pm UTC (link)
[info]utopist
1
2

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[info]lintilla
2003-09-01 03:54 pm UTC (link)
What a genius.

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[info]beautifulwolf
2004-11-28 03:22 am UTC (link)
freaking lord... dumb asses like her are what makes me scared to be a parent!

Can we give her a special "irresponceable dipstick of the year" award?? *rolls eyes*

Now we can all wait for her panicked "Mom says I need to place these babies NOW or she's taking them to the petstore/killing them" post that always comes after these sort of situations.

*sigh* Poor rats :(

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[info]maartje
2005-07-19 07:03 pm UTC (link)
Actually, I read the thing through... The rat eventually turns out not to be pregnant (link). She seems to like her rat more when it's nice and pregnant than when it 'disappoints' her.

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[info]madnesspassing
2005-07-19 10:30 pm UTC (link)
it doesn't surprise me one bit.

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[info]jezebelseven
2003-08-31 09:18 pm UTC (link)
I am so, so thankful someone else was feeling the same way. Thank you for posting this.

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[info]ecoleeye
2003-08-31 09:37 pm UTC (link)
THANK YOU.

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[info]valkyri
2003-08-31 10:07 pm UTC (link)

It seems you're targeting younger people, who have guardians and no transportation, little funds, and are often ill-informed or uninformed on the species. This is the same group who has issues keeping babies out of themselves too when they don't have the facilities to be a parent. The main issue with that group is that they have a hard time listening to advice. I know this intimately, having two teenagers of my own to deal with day to day. If a few heed the advice given, then that's a good thing - so don't stop trying.

I would like to add though, to your speil, that understanding genetics is somewhat necessary, and it's not an easy thing to grasp. It's a lot of work. Work scares teens.

Target parents. Don't allow your kids to have pets of different gender that are un-neutered.

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[info]hexkitten
2004-07-08 12:26 pm UTC (link)
In the above comments, there's reference to the person that inspired this post. Apparently, they borrowed their friend's male rate. The excuse was that she was rat-sitting while her friend was on vacation (she wasn't).

I think it's incredibly sad when some people get a wild hair up their butt to breed. Too many people don't think beyond, "Baby anythings are cute! I'm going to make some!"

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[info]valkyri
2004-07-08 01:42 pm UTC (link)

Those people need a tour of their local SPCA. It breaks my heart going into places like that and if they would just realize that MOST of them will die, they will see what happens to baby anythings once they are grown up. The question should always be asked and answered truthfully 'why do I want to do this?'

I wanted to in order to keep Occam and Newton's spirit alive forever, through their children. Selfish. Totally selfish. But I'm willing to keep any baby born here if I can't adopt them. I've kept 1/2 of a large litter, I've kept entire small litters. I don't charge people or try to make money, I do ask them to spend the money on the rat and buy them a nice home and good food. I will never be without the descendants of my favourite boys by continuing my line. The biggest thing though is that I am able to do that, it is my home, I pay for it, and I can keep whatever pets I want here in whatever numbers I find reasonable, it's about 2 litters a year when the girls become mature. Many people have parents, room mates, spouses, and so on that don't agree. When that happens... the animals end up at the shelter.

Baby anythings are cute. They should go to the shelter and see them there. I do and it makes me cry. I wish I could bring home every sad puppy face, but I can't do that, but when I do want a dog, then that is where I go.

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[info]katielouwho
2003-08-31 10:16 pm UTC (link)
I would love to breed my rat, but i also understand that at this time it is not plausible for me to do so. I will have to wait until i know more to do it. If i end up doing it at all.

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[info]s8venus
2003-08-31 11:05 pm UTC (link)
*claps*

Here, here!!!


I'm 25, married, and recently got a puppy. Yeah she's cute, but she's stinky, expensive and loud. If only ratties pooped in the house and not a cage people would think twice. Geesh! After the pup I'm having my tubes tied. *LOL*

My friend bred her rats for genetic and sentimental reasons, which I was NOT happy with considering her $$ and living situation. However ...thankfully [I guess you could say]....the rattie only had [or only survived for whatever reasons right after birth].....3 boys.

3....not too many to keep herself, and all one sex...happy to live with daddy!

So if you consider having lost...what?...4-5 babies shortly after birth an IDEAL situation....thats just really sad. And I mean that emotionally not cynically. She was lucky the way things turned out. What if the mommy rat had 12 babies and they all lived? I think even with BOTH of us having martins cages, but limited funds and nasty landlords it would have been overwhemling!


I don't think these people realize what resources ...say...5 or more....rats need! The attention, the feeding, the cleaning, the money for food and vet care. It's overwhemling to even ME......who works full time on a fairly nice salary with a husband willing to help, and the funds to do it.

It's not even funds........it's money, it's time.....it's like a part time job you can't EVER call in sick for!

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[info]beautifulwolf
2004-11-28 03:25 am UTC (link)
I know baby rats eat almost twice as much as adults (same with puppies)

My feed costs are A LOT higher when I have rat babies, esp since I do give them extra treats on top of more of the dry mix they eat... I swear baby rats don't STOP eating! LOL

(Reply to this) (Parent)
*applauds*
[info]mistresslego
2003-08-31 11:16 pm UTC (link)
i agree whole heartedly.... i have a total of twelve ratties now, all but two of whom were adoptions/rescues (the other two came from a petstore), five males and seven females, and have never once had an accidental litter. this bothers me sometimes as well, though i do know that accidental litters can happen, sometimes they happen a bit too often, which makes one start to wonder... my solution to this has been to get my males neutered shortly after i take them in... that way if someone does accidently escape, their's practically no chance they can get pregnant (unless they run into one of their wild cousins, which as far as i know, isn't likely either, as we seem to have no wild rat population in the house as of now).

most of my males and a couple of my females were rescued due to bad breeding practice, actually. they cannot be bred, as they come from a line where megacolon is a big problem, but the breeder was too ignorant/selfish to put a stop to his/her unethical breeding practices his/herself (i never met their breeder, they were given to me by a very knowledgeable breeder who takes in many rescues herself)....

yeah... so.... enough of my rant... and thanks again for yours!

rebecca and the "dirty dozen" (datura, tallulah, squeaky, little nell, lenore, siouxsie, snuff, case, tori, dryden, logan, and hunter)

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[info]ratgrrl
2003-08-31 11:25 pm UTC (link)
Finally someone speaks what I've been thinking. I am dealing with a 13 year old that is breeding her two unhealthy pet store rats. Won't listen to reason. I'm avoiding her.
Breeding is such a huge responcibility. I have some males that need placing and I won't breed another litter until I place them all or at least have reservations for them. They were spoken for but all the people bailed. "Oh I found a female from another breeder" and such.

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[info]morganastar
2003-09-01 08:29 am UTC (link)
Someone had to say it. Its so common to see bad breeders in small pets, just because you have a pet doesn't mean you have to breed them. Does everyone breed their dog? I should hope not, why breed a rat, guinnea, mouse, whatever just because they're "small" and "easier to take care of than a litter of puppies"

Another one that might be added would be (and this one makes me want to hit):
Don't breed because you want your sprog to "Experience the miracle of birth".

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[info]madnesspassing
2003-09-01 09:19 am UTC (link)
i can't say i've heard that one here recently (although i vaguely recall hearing it once, awhile back.. but i don't know if it was here or CF)

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[info]morganastar
2003-09-01 10:22 am UTC (link)
You wouldn't believe how many times one hears it while working at a humane society. Mom brings in a litter of puppies/kitties/mice/rats she wasn't able to get rid of and simply states "We wanted the kids to experience the miracle of birth, but we can't find homes for them now."

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[info]hexkitten
2004-07-08 12:33 pm UTC (link)
"We wanted the kids to experience the miracle of birth, and to learn that animals are an expendable commodity."

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[info]hexkitten
2004-07-08 12:33 pm UTC (link)
If anybody ever used that "miracle of birth" line on me, I'd say, "And, afterwards, are you going to take them into the backyard and club them to death? The kids can get the full spectrum of what it's like to exist!"

Actually, it would be more accurate to take the kids to the SPCA to see the litter euthanized, wouldn't it? Start to finish.

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[info]rustedlemon
2003-09-01 03:14 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for putting up this post.
I've been considering getting into breeding for some time now but have neither the space or resources to be doing it at this time, but those are definitely great guidelines to go by. Is there a directory or something that I can look into for contacting breeders in my area?

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[info]madnesspassing
2003-09-01 03:19 pm UTC (link)
i would suggest going to google and typing "(state/area)" "rattery" or key words like "breed" and "rats"

There are a few directories out there.. but i can't think of them offhand and i'm dripping wet.. if you can't find any, i can look later.. lemme know

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[info]raggedrose
2003-09-02 12:20 pm UTC (link)
You could also look into a rescue. My rats have all come from the snake food cage, or a rescue, and they've all been great.

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[info]rustedlemon
2003-09-02 02:53 pm UTC (link)
I'm not looking into getting any more rats currently.
two's enough for my living situation. ;)

But I was interested in talking to some professional breeders in person and getting a little bit of one on one and support if I decide ever to undertake breeding.

rat breeders dot com looks to be a helpful place to look up local ratteries.

but thanks.
I got my two from a pet shop too.

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[info]beautifulwolf
2004-11-28 03:28 am UTC (link)
www.ratster.com is an awesome resource.

If you'd like any reccemondations for breeders local to you feel free to ask as I know many people all over the US and can typically refer people to a reputable local breeder.

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[info]raggedrose
2003-09-02 12:18 pm UTC (link)
BLESS YOU!

I'm currently very overloaded with rats because of someone else's indiscriminate breeding, and someone else's "rescuing" of pregnant rats when she had no homes for them to go to. I took 'em temporarily, and ended up with loads of bills, and the responsibility for their adoptions mainly in my hands.

Slowly but surely, I'm finding them homes. If anyone here would like well socialized rats who came into this world through no fault of their own, and are sweet and loving to a fault, let me know. I've posted here before about them, and while a lot have found homes, we still have a few more.

And speaking of genetics, the guy who was breeding these rats was apparently working on "lines." Well, if he was, he sure managed to breed enough tan hoods. Yeah, right... And I have two sweet-natured tan hoods who have facial cancers. We have the girl, another rescuer has the boy now. We'll both be caring for them till they have to be PTS, because the cancers are basically inoperable. We had the girl done, and it came back before the incision had fully healed. She's at the doctor again today for it. It's sad, and expensive, but what I wish more than anything is that we could cure them both. They didn't ask for this, and are two of the most friendly, secure rats we've ever had. The adoptables are healthy, and from different litters.

Three litters in as many months is a whole lot of cleanup work for anyone. And there are people who dealt with far more rats than that from this one rescue. If someone breeds, and then has to give all their rats away as a consequence, someone has to clean up after them.

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[info]talentshow
2004-11-28 02:55 am UTC (link)
I'm so glad you posted this.

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[info]thgovrnmntsucks
2005-08-03 04:58 am UTC (link)
very good! i recently rescused a female rat who, unknown to me but not her pervious owner, she was bred and 2 weeks after I got her, surprised me with 14 little babies, all which survived mind you. now I have the liberty of placing 14 babys because someone wasnt responsible enough. you should add something in about being responsible and making sure your cage is locked to prevent any "accidents" in which you can give to other people because you cant handle it.

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