jandrewm ([info]jandrewm) wrote in [info]quakers,
@ 2008-09-14 18:58:00
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Conflict in Meeting
First, I have to say that I'm pretty new to Quakerism, though I have been attending my local meeting regularly for almost two years.  I'm fairly active in the meeting-- serving on two committees, participating in both local  and Yearly Meeting events, etc.  I can say without reservation that the RSOF is a positive force in my life.

But I struggle with the problem of conflict in my meeting.  I realize that interpersonal conflict is an inevitable part of any social group, and that Friends have a long tradition of addressing the problem.  There's even an evolved language that Friends use to face down conflict, eg "eldering."  No doubt our meeting's ongoing difficulties with personal tension are typical.

Yet my recognition of all that doesn't negate the painful feelings that arise when hostility enters the meeting room, when long-held grudges boil over and harsh words are spoken.  After a few months of regular attendance at my meeting, I came close to abandoning this "experiment" with Quakerism because some Friends were so consistently rancorous, divisive, disruptive.  I had to ask myself: "Do I need this negativity in my life right now?"

I decided to keep coming to meeting, but I still sometimes feel the urge to flee.  Or (far worse, I think) I feel a desire to lash out, to silence others with a cutting remark, to cause pain in response to my own.  These thoughts are disturbing, though perhaps they can be seen as an opportunity to grow spiritually.

So I'm wondering whether Friends here on LJ have any thoughts on conflict in meeting and how to deal with it.  Has conflict threatened the stability of your meetings?  Have you struggled to respond to conflict in the spirit of Friends' testimonies?  Has conflict been addressed openly as an issue in your meetings?

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[info]sammka
2008-09-15 01:24 am UTC (link)
I've definitely been to Meetings that were like this. It made me very upset as well, and I've definitely taken breaks from regular attendance when I saw this going on.

It's hard for those of us who are not really "established" at the Meeting because we don't have much background. I've generally wanted to avoid getting involved in reconciling people with each other because I just don't know what's behind all of that. Fortunately my Meeting can pretty much keep it together with only infrequent eruptions of discord. If it persisted, though, and there wasn't another Meeting close by that I could attend, I guess I would have to just bring it up with the Friendly Ear or something afterward and see whether they have any advice.

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[info]jandrewm
2008-09-15 11:32 pm UTC (link)
I think most of the time we "keep it together", as you put it.

It may be that I have unreasonable (romanticized) expectations for Quakerism in practice. On the other hand, perhaps it's appropriate to strive for the ideal-- our models in the 17th century certainly yearned for the utopian.

There are other meetings available to me, but I feel called (at this point) to commit msyself to this community.

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[info]sammka
2008-09-16 02:15 am UTC (link)
Yeah, we all strive for the ideal. But it helps to remember that the Meeting will not always live up to expectations so if it's overall a good fit for you, don't give up on it because of discord. Sort of like a marriage, I guess.

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Meeting
(Anonymous)
2008-09-18 01:34 pm UTC (link)
"But it helps to remember that the Meeting will not always live up to expectations so if it's overall a good fit for you, don't give up on it because of discord. Sort of like a marriage,"
Thank you sammka!
It took me almost thirty years to learn this viable lesson among Friends.
Quakers like all human beings have a shadow side
The shadow symbolizes the parts of ourselves, albeit wounded,
that we most dislike.
This is why go to worship.
Paul
Come regularly to meeting for worship even when you are angry, depressed, tired or spiritually cold. In the silence ask for and accept the prayerful support of others joined with you in worship. Try to find a spiritual wholeness which encompasses suffering as well as thankfulness and joy. Prayer, springing from a deep place in the heart, may bring healing and unity as nothing else can.
Let meeting for worship nourish your whole life.
Britain FAITH & PRACTICE Advices 10

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[info]stori_lundi
2008-09-15 01:45 am UTC (link)
I find that over time, things work themselves out or the most offending parties leave for one reason or another. Have you talked to Ministry and Oversight or even a "weighy Quaker" in the Meeting about this? If there is that much negativity, it needs to be addressed. If not, then perhaps it's time to find a Meeting that meets your needs better.

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[info]jandrewm
2008-09-15 11:39 pm UTC (link)
Apparently our meeting is in a period of recovery right now-- the roughest days are past. So this is evidence that "over time, things work themselves out." But from the perspective of a relative newbie, it's difficult to take the long view.

In one sense, I'm coming to realize that my concern is partially with my own internal response to conflict. How do I face down the violence in my heart? How do I deal with my own anger and disappointment? I'm wondering how other Friends meet these challenges-- how they live out, viscerally, the peace testimony? Because I'm not feeling very peaceful at this juncture! :)

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[info]stori_lundi
2008-09-16 12:50 am UTC (link)
I understand completely. My Meething went through some turbulence a while ago and I just didn't go for a while because I couldn't deal with it. Things worked themselves out and I came back. It's okay to take a step back, especially if you aren't directly involved in the conflict. Let people work out their differences and stay clear of the fall-out. Sometimes the best answer is to walk away for a while.

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[info]dawn9163
2008-09-15 08:35 am UTC (link)
The first time I really understood how wars started (this was in the days before I had kids!) was at a Monthly Meeting when the selling of a Meeting House was on the agenda (and had been many times before too) - it was incredibly painful and divisive and has ended in a split and a group of "unofficial" Quakers meeting separately from the rest of their Meeting.

One of the major difficulties with Quaker Meetings (and most other churches too) is that people can just walk in off the street and join in the Meeting. The only real vetting proceedure is if someone applies for membership. And this can mean that people who you or I might not consider to be a "proper Quaker" becomes an established part of the Meeting. For a while there was a problem in Britain YM with an individual who went round attending a Meeting for a while and then tried to get money out of the more vulnerable members.

I would suggest having a quiet word with an Elder that you trust - it may have become so much a part of the Meeting that Friends who have been attending for a long time don't even really notice it any more.

Currently my OH and I are in the process of splitting up after 25 years together - we both went to our Meeting and explained this and that we both wanted to continue attending this Meeting as we've been going to it for the last 20 years. It is only a small meeting (about 10-15 on a Sunday) and most of the people have dealt with our separation by completely ignoring it - which most of the time feels fine, but it would be nice to have it acknowledged. I was rung up and told that Overseers had decided we would get an overseer each (normally one per family) - that was 5 months ago and we still havne't been told who they are or had anyone contact us individually to see if we need support.

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[info]jandrewm
2008-09-15 11:52 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for sharing. Your anecdotes resonate with my experience.

When I first began attending my meeting, the community was working towards closure on a crisis involving a disruptive member, who had recently left. I could sense that there was a lot of hurt in the air, but nothing was said, nothing was explained. I kept quiet, and slowly pieced together a rough picture of the situation.

In one sense I think I handled things appropriately: discreet, non-invasive interest eventually brought some clarity on the meeting's recent history and how it might impact me.

But at the same time, I felt (and still feel) some ambivalence. I would have liked a bit more openness, less of the "elephant in the living room" tendency that so often mars our efforts at social intimacy.

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Not taking the testimonies seriously
[info]martinkelley.com
2008-09-16 12:22 am UTC (link)
Sorry to hear about your meeting. I've been in that situation. A lot of Friends aren't very good at putting their foot down on flagrantly disruptive behavior. I wish I could buy the "it eventually sorts out" argument but it often doesn't. I've seen meetings where all the sane people are driven out, leaving the disruptive folks and armchair therapists. It's a symbiotic relationship, perhaps, but doesn't make for a healthy spiritual community.

The unpopular solution is for us to take our testimonies seriously. And I mean those more specific testimonies buried deep in copies in Faith & Practice that act as a kind of collective wisdom for Quaker community life. Testimonies against detraction and for rightly ordered decision making, etc. If someone's actions tear apart the meeting they should be counseled; if they continue to disrupt then their decision-making input should be disregarded. This is the real effect of the old much-maligned Quaker process of disowning (which allowed continued attendance at worship and life in the community but stopped business participation). Limiting input like this makes sense to me.

The trouble that if your meeting is in this kind of spiral there might not be much you can do by yourself. People take some sort of weird comfort in these predictable fights and if you start talking testimonies you might become very unpopular very quickly. Participating in the bickering isn't helpful (of course) and just eats away your own self. Distancing yourself for a time might be helpful. Getting involved in other Quaker venues. It's a shame. Monthly meeting is supposed to be the center of our Quaker spiritual life. But sometimes it can't be. I try to draw lessons from these circumstances. I certainly understand the value and need for the Quaker testimonies better simply because I've seen the problems meetings face when they haven't. But that doesn't make it any easier for you.

Good luck and tell us how you do. I'm going to post this thread to QuakerQuaker to see if we can get any more thoughtful responses.

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Re: Not taking the testimonies seriously
[info]jandrewm
2008-09-17 01:57 am UTC (link)
I've been involved with our library committee, and thus with our restructuring of the meeting's Quaker resources. In the course of this work, I've spent some time with old Friendly pamphlets, Swarthmore lectures, Faith and Practice documents, etc.

Two things I've looked for in this collection: 1) Meditations on the experience of vocal ministry in meeting-- how to discern a genuine leading, how to overcome the fear of speaking out. 2) The peace testimony as lived out in the heart, and not just in the context of anti-war demonstrations and other political actions.

I think that this time was well spent-- it reminds me not only of the Quaker tradition I have access to, but also of the fact that my meeting participates in that tradition.


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(Anonymous)
2008-09-16 05:12 pm UTC (link)
A couple thoughts; about what you might do for yourself and what you might do with/for the Meeting.

Re your reactions - because you are uncomfortable with them
Have you examined your desire to strike out at others while sitting in worship? What does that show you about the source of that desire? Can you then hold that source in the light of worship?
Have you tried grounding yourself in worship when you have this reaction, or when you foresee it arising? What happens then?
Others have suggested talking with an elder about your experience and desire to find a more comfortable reaction to the conflict, I second that suggestion.

Re the weight of the conflict in the Meeting
Have you gone to Ministry/Worship committee to raise this as a concern?
If this is an ongoing issue, perhaps there are folks who do or would like to come together to hold the Meeting in the Light on a regular basis. This is something that can be done without anyone taking sides, but working together to ground and support the Meeting as a whole.
You mentioned that this is the quieter end of an ongoing/ending issue; perhaps the M/W folks see it as much improved while you see it as active and divisive. It might help them to hear your concerns and experience as a comparative newcomer who is active in the Meeting.
Perhaps M/W folks would have suggestions for you for how to cope with the dissension. Perhaps this would be a prompt to the Meeting to directly address how this Meeting handles conflict - perhaps others find themselves in the same position you do, and a format could be created to help you see more ways to understand and address conflict in the context of a Meeting.

Good for you for not walking away from this, and for addressing your concerns about your own reactions as well as what you see in the Meeting. Some folks decide that the way to be peaceable is to bury their emotional discomfort when that tends to just seed more.

So much of how a Meeting handles conflict depends on the state of the Meeting overall. It's painful to see a Meeting be divisive, and goodness knows Quakers have a history of deep divisions. Looking at your own reactions and looking for ways to support the Meeting as a whole seem to me to be productive ways to use this situation for both your own growth and to support the growth of the Meeting.

Hope some of this is helpful.

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[info]jandrewm
2008-09-17 02:10 am UTC (link)
These are very useful thoughts, and resonate with some of my own.

I shold clarify that the most divisive, emotional confrontations tend to happen at the Meetings for Business-- probably not an uncommon problem. But these tensions sometimes carry over into MfW.

I really liked this suggestion: "Have you tried grounding yourself in worship when you have this reaction, or when you foresee it arising?"

Perhaps due to my inexperience, I find this to be very difficult! A lot to think about here.

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Conflict as a Gift
(Anonymous)
2008-09-17 01:17 pm UTC (link)
Hi Friend! Your blog post brought up a lot of memories for me. I was brought up in an Evangelical church (Baptist-leaning Fundamentalist), spent time with the Unitarians and finally became a member of a Quaker Meeting here in Philadelphia.

My experience with these and other groups has been that very few communities know how to deal with conflict well. For many of us, our way of viewing conflict is that there is a “single source” of a problem, and once we get to the bottom of who or what that source is and get rid of it, the conflict will go away. It’s the old “toss the offender out!” model.

Often, many of us just hope the “problem” person or situation will go away, and sometimes after it has gotten ugly or strained enough, the situation/person does go away. But in my own life & experience of communities, religious and secular, I’ve seen a very funny thing happen. As soon as someone who I or my community has deemed offensive is gone, miraculously, some other difficult person/situation appears to fill the void! (it’s the craziest thing!...)

I think the best we can do in our meetings is follow Jesus teaching about dealing with another who has offended us (Matthew 18:15-17). The key to Jesus’ teachings seems to be that, yes, we do need to have boundaries around negative or hurtful behavior, but that before we get to the bottom of any problem, a lot of listening needs to happen. (Notice it doesn’t start w/ hauling the offender before the church council – it starts with a direct individual approach, and then getting others to witness and help in the situation.) I think Jesus also had a pretty good sense of humor – I imagine that he had a healthy enough understanding of human nature that once the “offended” involved other parties in the situation, it might be revealed that there was more than one side to the story.

In my meeting, we have gone ‘round and ‘round with a few individuals over the years who are angry with “the meeting” (whoever that is, if it’s not the individual as well…), or with another Friend. Overall, however imperfectly, the best approach seems to be about unbiased listening to both parties by a small group of listening witnesses (usually Overseers/Membership Care). It requires a belief, or at least hope, from all involved that a) the situation is resolvable, and b) we each come with our best intentions and c) there is something good in each person which we can connect with (being willing to look for “That of God” in one another.) But, yes – this does require that Friends not avoid, ignore or actively run away from conflict, but deal with it lovingly and head-on.

I think it’s important to note that while earlier Friends did have a process of disownment, there was a hope and an expectation that the offending Friend would eventually be brought back into unity with the meeting.

My previous church actually created a “Covenant of Right Relations” as a community after a series of difficult conflicts in the community. This seems like a pretty good model: http://www.uucb.org/covenant/index.html

But mainly, I think it works best when we stay together and work through these things as individuals and communities – I can promise you that if you leave a situation because of a conflict it will pop up again in unexpected places. That seems to be God’s little gift to us.

Recently in meeting for business, a beloved Friend named “community” as commitment to one another and a willingness to struggle with one another in the hard places. Because conflict is just something that comes with living, working and worshipping with other imperfect human beings.

- Eric Evans

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-21 05:36 pm UTC (link)
Perhaps it's obvious, but I find it can be helpful to remember that it's Meeting for Worship with a Concern for Business.

Meeting for Business shouldn't be separate from worship, but grounded in it. In my experience, the more deeply folks are grounded in worship the more room there is for discussion of business topics and the greater the likelihood of the meeting coming to unity. It can be easy to be distracted by an agenda, but one does pay for it when that happens.

Hope things are opening for you.

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Meeting
(Anonymous)
2008-09-18 02:08 pm UTC (link)
Friends I shared this email with sammka.
I add a few more words...
Paul
sammka said,"But it helps to remember that the Meeting will not always live up to expectations so if it's overall a good fit for you, don't give up on it because of discord. Sort of like a marriage,"

Thank you sammka for these words!

It took me almost thirty years to learn this viable lesson among Friends.
Quakers like all human beings have a shadow side.
The shadow symbolizes the parts of ourselves that are wounded and broken,
This is why we go to worship to be healed, forgiven, and to nourishes
our faith,to live out the Gospel's message of God's love.
In the holy silence the holy spirit plants little seeds of faith
even in those who least expect it.
Paul
Come regularly to meeting for worship even when you are angry, depressed, tired or spiritually cold. In the silence ask for and accept the prayerful support of others joined with you in worship. Try to find a spiritual wholeness which encompasses suffering as well as thankfulness and joy. Prayer, springing from a deep place in the heart, may bring healing and unity as nothing else can.
Let meeting for worship nourish your whole life.
Britain FAITH & PRACTICE Advices 10

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[info]osodecanela
2008-09-25 05:31 am UTC (link)
Friend, thank you for posting this dilemma!

If you are feeling this way, in your experience of Meeting for Worship on the Occasion of Business, I suspect you're likely not alone. I'd suggest strongly seeking out a seasoned Friend within your Meeting with whom you can talk and season your concern. Treat this as your need for clearness for what action you need to take, whether it be to walk away from Meeting, or to get your Meeting labor with its conflicts.

Friends are always well advised to remember that Meeting for Worship On the Occasion of Business is an exercise in both bravery and humility in the search for Unity. It's not a search for consensus with one another, but unity with the Divine. Unfortunately, too many of us forget that all too frequently.

There is one tool really important not to forget when Business Meeting becomes contentious; ask for silence. Stand if you need to, to get the clerk to recognize you, but call for a moment of silence, so Friends can center and hopefully dampen the emotions around the conflict, before resuming their work with one another.

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