Poly Parents

Loving someone so much it hurts

Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:32:07 GMT

Sorry if I haven't been posting lately, but we have been going through a lot. In posting this, I might be making my darling wife angry, but I need to get feedback. I know she likes to keep certain things private, but I need to discuss this and at least be heard, even if by some search engine.

Tia and I love each other a lot, and we always have. We have had some small issues and some big issues, and for the longest time, we swept a lot of the issues under the rug. They festered and caused a lot of problems, and over the last 2 years we have been digging to get as many of those issues dealt with. It has been a hard road, and both of us thought we were making a lot of progress. We have both caused each other some amount of grief, and have had hard parts to our lives before we met each other.

I haven't been an angel in this, but I haven't been the devil either. We have both been working through issues and have made a lot of progress. That is, until June. In June we found out that I had a job offer with a company in Copenhagen, which I am now working at. Right about the same time, Tia found someone in her Wiccan group that she liked and wanted to meet at a pagan event where nudity was involved. I hadn't been to the place, hadn't met the guy, didn't know anything about him, and she wanted to go, get to know him, and basically get laid by him. There was a lot of miscommunication about the events of that day, but instead of a fling, which I think I could have dealt with, she came back saying that she wanted to start a relationship with him.

At that point, looking on the road ahead, I could see that it was going to be stressful. Packing up, moving to another country, starting a new job, dealing with the kids and temporary housing... it was going to be a stress filled summer. I communicated clearly that I thought it was a bad idea, due to the stress, and I got back from her that it was me trying to keep her from growing. I tried to make her see my point, but after a couple of fights and some moping on her part, I gave in. Whether or not she was moping, it felt like she was blaming me for not allowing her to progress further in life, while to me she was not listening to me. She pointed out that on our first foray into poly, I was not listening to her, and it felt like she was trying to justify her reaction by equating it to an event in my life that I have out and out admitted was one of the stupidest things I have done.

The relationship turned out to add multiples of stress to an already stressful summer. It felt that she was so anxious to have someone other than me provide some sense of desire to her life, that she was not listening to me more and more. I was in pain and trying to deal with it, and she could see it. She has always had some low self-esteem, and she had started complaining that I should find someone better than her, as she was not what I needed. The way she phrased it, it was not in the poly sense of complimenting, it was in the mono sense of replacing.

But during our conversations about it, it felt like she was belittling me for asking for respect from her guy. She openly stated a number of times that I was just trying to impede her growth, and no one would ever be able to respect me enough. We had fights over it, and she started getting more distant. Every time she defended him and his lack of respect, it felt like she was taking another step away. She asked a number of times if I wanted her to leave, and the number of times she complained that I should find someone better increased. As all of that increased, I felt that she was starting to slide into depressing, closing in on herself and getting more and more into a dark hole she was adamant that she could dig herself out of.

Was I an angel during this time? Relationship wise, there was only Tia. Due to the stress, some of the issues that I had been doing better on before the summer fell by the wayside. So I tried my hardest, and had issues. In addtion to all the stress Tia was experiencing, there was also the extra relationship, and me doing my own retreating. Each time we got into a fight, I retreated a bit, convinced that I had to let Tia grow and sacrifice myself, because that was the only way to make her happy. Once her relationship had started, the pain of her not listening was already done, and I felt that if I would have not tried to make progress in dealing with my issues, I was not loving Tia. All of this time, she thought I was retreating

About a week before we left, she saw him one last time, and when she came back she said she finally saw that he was not respecting me. She still spent time talking and kissing with him that night, but she told me that when she got home. At the same time, we were both withdrawing from each other: me because it felt like she wasn't listeneing to me about her new friend and lack of respect, her because she thought I was trying to impeded her growth.

Since moving to Denmark, the stress has grown a bit, but has started to level off. Tia's immigration papers are still pending and having had to deal with the stress of having the kids home all summer has not helped. We both have had issues dealing with the time change, and we have both been sharp with the kids and each other. But due to the time before we arrived here, instead of being there for each other, we turned on each other and kept on fighting. I don't think either one of us meant to do it, we just fell back into bad patterns that we had established long ago, and resurfaced due to the high stress levels.

Because of the stress, my stomache has acted up a lot and made me grumpy. Because of the stress and issues, Tia has felt more and more depressed, and her libido has disappeared. While in my mind I understand that it is a factor of depression, having battled it unsuccessfully for years before Tia helped me, in my heart it felt like she was pushing me away even more and blaming me for her failed relationship. For what its worth, I am autistic and have battled depression for a lot of my life, and she has Croehn and has also battled it for a fair part of her life. Both of us have communication issues, but both of us love each other a lot.

The other night, we got into a massive fight. This one has dragged on for 2 days. After hearing her ask to leave a number of times and having her comment that I should find someone better than her (mono way), not someone to compliment her (poly way), when she asked me the other morning, I told her that if she wanted to leave, she should. It was said in anger, pure and simple. After a knuckle dragging fight where she asked me 3 times, I finally responded.

Was that the smartest thing? No. Am I sorry about it? Mostly. I think that at that point I needed to say something to make sure she would understand how hurt and in pain I was. Between having her not listening, withdrawing from me and us, and thinking that she was slipping into depression, I needed to say something.

There is some good to this. We both know we love each other. We started talking again, and once again, we laid a lot of cards out on the table. We both admit we need to work on communiction. We both admit that we felt that we were talking and the other wasn't listening. We both know that we need to deal with these issues and others. We both know we are tired of the fighting. We both know that when we get stressed, our higher brains shut down and our established patterns start winning out.

We started last night by making a list in OpenOffice writer about what we think all the issues are, and are also going to work on one of expectations. I know it sounds pedantic, but we think that having the issues spelled out will help. I want to nuture a healthy relationship and make sure we deal with the rest of the issues, but I admit I don't always think clearly about the best way to tackle these issues.

Can anyone offer kindly advice and help? I love Tia dearly, and want help in dealing with these issues. I really want to make sure that we have as many good ideas on how to progress as possible to give us the best chance to deal with everything. I want to make sure that I change to be a better person and spouse, and believe that Tia also wants the same thing.

Any advice on similar situations or thoughts on either side are welcome.

Update

Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:22:14 GMT

I want to thank all who were so helpful a while back. We decided to move in together for a short time. We spent a month making a room for him and knitting the family together. His two boys have come to stay with us twice since he's moved in. When they're gone it's pretty quiet around here. As well it will be when it's time for him to move on. Consideration for joining him in the future when my husband's job allows it is spinning around... Maybe it will be tougher than we thought to go back to being a nuclear family of five again, instead if eight, sniff....

Florida Poly Retreat Work Weekend

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:53:42 GMT

Hello Everyone!

We're trying to find out the feasibility of having a Florida Poly Family Work Weekend at the Retreat Center where the Florida Poly Retreat is held each year.

The idea is to have folks arrive with their families on Friday night, do some work around the Retreat center during Saturday morning and early afternoon, then have some fun activity time in the late afternoon, followed by dinner and and evening activities. Everyone would go home on Sunday.

Our Retreat facility does need to have work done on it, and if you would be able to come to help us work on the facility on Friday or even on Thursday, that would be appreciated, too! You don't have to have kids to come, but we wanted to give poly folks with children a chance to get together, talk to folks who face similar situations as they do, and network together. It also gives the kids a chance to make friends with other poly-family kids!

The idea of this weekend is to help the UU in the Pines (our Retreat Facility) to spruce up their grounds in an effort to make things better for everyone that uses the facilities. We've done this in the past, and have been able to stay free of charge and have been able to use the kitchen facilities to cook for ourselves. So essentially the weekend would be free of monetary charge, but everyone would be required to work in some capacity for the betterment of the center or for support of those that are there working.

Does this sound like something that you or someone you know with a poly family with children would be interested in? If so, please reply to the group and let us know things like:

1/ What dates do your kids go back to school?

2/ What are the ages of your children (if you are wanting to bring them).

3/ Are you willing to kid-sit or be in charge of kid's activities so the adults and older children can work on the facilities?

These are just a few starter questions. I hope as things come together we'll be able to firm up ideas.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Your Florida Poly Retreat Staff

Meren, Alicia, Richard, Jeffery, Josie, Lauren, Judy, and Zhanna (so far! If you want to be on Staff for FPR 2009, please do let us know!)

Cross-posted to a few poly communities.

Who Do You Love Best?

Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:31:28 GMT

A good friend of mine and I were discussing the new Dr. Who series and some of the socio-political issues, when we had an interesting and rather telling conversation. Now, we’re both poly. That becomes important to the conversation.

I asked, “So, which Doctor do you like better, nine or ten?”

“Both,” he replied. “Each is different.”

More?

New Misanthrope Column

Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:55:21 GMT

There’s been a few discussions going around various polyamory communities talking about relationship rules, tastes in physiques, and a lot of other things.

Part of the discussion will invariably involve why some standard or another is wrong. When you dig a little deeper, it is often because that particular person doesn’t meet said standard.

I have an answer to that.

More?

Add the Polyamorous Misanthrope LJ feed to your friends list!

Update

Fri, 09 May 2008 21:22:41 GMT

I want to thank everyone who commented yesterday on my post regarding my son and his net ship. Even those whose comments with which I didn't agree.
I react to this as me thinking I was protecting him, along the same lines of me taking his car away because he was driving too fast, or limiting the amount of junk food in the house because I want us to eat healthier. The advice I got from lj communities and from my real life friends helped me realize that was the wrong approach. Mainly because there there are human emotions involved here and that I was trying to punish my son for something he did wrong, which really isn't the case.

I did have a long talk with my boyfriend last night. I have to admit, he is more rational and logical than I am, though this will be the last time I ever admit that. :) He does care about my children and he considers them his own, he introduces them as his son and daughter. He is not happy with the situation either but along with the advice I recieved, we did come to some basic conclusions.

In all reality I may be able to limit the time my son spends on the internet, but that isn't going to stop him from having this relationship. It wasn't that long ago that I was his age. I do know where there's a will, there's a way.

My son has a pretty level head on his shoulders. He's a damn good kid, of my 3 he is the one who is the most responsible and clear headed. Given the fact that this is a netship and the chances of a real life meeting are slim to none, I really don't have much to fear.

I talked with my son last night. I told him why I was upset, what bothered me. I did show him yesterday's post so he could understand where I was coming from. His first reaction to my reaction was that I was being unreasonable because I hate WoW and she's an older woman. His anger with me, prohibited him from actually hearing what I had to say.

We needed the time to cool off and step back. He's still not happy with me for trying to interfere in his life and I'm sure that won't go away overnight. He did tell me that he could understand why I felt the way I did. We talked about relationships in general. It's kind of funny now that I think about it. I've had safe sex talks with him. I've had acceptance talks with him, we have discussed the different types of relationships, but we have never really talked about the do's and don't of a relationship. I think because I felt it wasn't my place to tell him how to structure his relationships, that his boundaries might not be my own. Which is exactly what I was trying to do with this situation.

I told him that I felt that even a netship on the level they have had, was cheating if her husband wasn't aware of the relationship. I would never ever be okay with that. His comment to that was "I don't know if her husband knows we haven't talked about it". So then came the talk about communication and honesty. He said that when she told him she and her husband had a poly relationship that he assumed her husband knew. He did say that if her husband didn't know that he would not continue the personal relationship with her. He like me does believe in Karma and he told me that cheating was not a bitch slap he ever wanted to receive. He said the WoW relationship would continue because the guild was important to both of them. Have I mentioned I really hate this game?

As far as the woman goes, since my boyfriend is in the same guild with her and my son, he suggested that I let him talk to her. I'm not sure it will do any good, but he's said he would explain to her the issues I have with her telling my son to keep it a secret and why we feel the way we do about that. I'm not sure that that is necessary or if will even do any good, but he wants her to know that we are aware of the relationship.

Anyway thanks again for all the kind words, the advice and even the not so kind words.

Thu, 08 May 2008 22:14:18 GMT

I found out last night that my 17 year old son has been having a "netship" with someone in his WoW guild. She's a 36-37 year old married woman with a 9 year old kid. She doesn't work. All she does is sit on her ass all day playing WoW and talking dirty to my kid.

Color me mad as hell.
I've cross posted this in 2 other communities so I apologize if you have seen it else where.

I'm not so much upset about the age difference. He will be 18 in September.
I'm upset because
1) She told him to lie to me
2) She is supposedly poly, but I guarantee her husband doesn't know
3) I don't want his first relationship to be with his keyboard.

He's home-schooled. While I'm at work he's on WoW. I'm going to put an end to that though. I'm pretty sure that I can set up a password for him to be able to connect. At least I think that is what Verizon told me when we got the FIOS system. I'll call tech support when I get home tonight and find out.

New Misanthrope Column: Experience and Variety in Poly Parenting

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:37:37 GMT

Even though I’m not a parent in a group marriage any more, I still co-parent with my ex-spice.

On a trip to visit my family in Virginia, I was discussing child-rearing with my own parents and we were talking about the different experiences my kids had[1] as a result of being reared by four people. My parents asked what the kids did with the various parents and I told them of SCA events they’d be taken to, hikes they went on, museums they liked, and oh… anything you’d take a kid to do. My parents comment that the kids were lucky that all their parents were willing to share their diverse tastes with the kids.

In fact, I’m writing this on a train.

More?

Very Important for anyone to watch. Especially if you have Kids.

Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:42:28 GMT

Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:42:13 GMT

It's a little one. One that maybe my guys haven't thought of - but one that's bothering me just a touch. I'll be bringing up with them next time we pow-wow. I would just like to get my thoughts straight on this one.

We are considering moving my OSO in with us for a short time before he moves on to grander things in far away places. This move should be for only a few months should it occur. I won't get into "why" - but allow me to state that it's a practical solution. This thought is just that -- it's still in the "idea" phase of the board.

My youngest (6) absolutely adores OSO. All three of my darlings think of him as a second dad. My 13 yr old included. Of course I don't believe he holds as much love for him as his real father. My 11 yr old rolls with the flow real easy. The opinions of my children are important to me.

So question; I feel we should sit down and talk with the kids during "idea" phase. I do tend to be frank with them. Of course, I don't want to come off as though all of our decisions are based on how the kids take things.... However, they might be truly uncomfortable with the "once a week visit Dad" becoming a live in.

Or should we not get ahead of ourselves (put the cart before the horse, as they say) and decide that this is pretty much what we want to do before letting them in on it. What if we decide not to? Then we possibly put undue stress on the children for no reason. But that is making the decision and then asking them their opinion on it which sounds hypocritical to me.

I'm sorry if this is hard to follow. The words in my head are pretty jumbled and this is about the best way I can state my concern right now. I've edited this as much as I think I can so it would make some sense. I don't even feel as though my concerns are truly drawn well.

It may not sound like much to some, but it is to me. If nothing else, thanks for letting me just sound off.

G

FPR 2008

Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:25:47 GMT

The Florida Poly Retreat (FPR) is a regional level polyamory retreat/conference started in 2003 organized by the polyamory communities of Florida. This year, FPR will be held on March 27-30.

We offer:

Workshops to educate, share and improve essential relationship skills
Nightly campfires, music circles
Family style meals
Onsite guesthouses & camping
Social activities designed to meet and get to know other poly-minded people
Flexible pricing options
Pool and Hiking
Medieval siege weapons

UU in the Pines is a beautiful site located in easily accessible Brooksville, FL - just an hour north of Tampa. FPR is a 3-night event (Thursday - Sunday), with flexible pricing options that also include two night stays and day passes.

For an idea of what we do at Florida Poly Retreat, take a look at our 2007 Schedule and Location.

Signed up to attend FPR 2008? Join our attendees discussion group to mingle with other attendees, arrange carpools, etc.
Join our low volume announcement list to get important information about FPR 2008 as it becomes available!

Questions? Ask our Redhead-In-Charge:
Sandra: coordinator@floridapolyretreat.com

If you've been considering registering for the retreat, now is the time to do so to get the best rates. We are still offering payment plans - just pay half of your registration now and the remainder by February 28, 2008. This year, we are proud to have Anita Wagner of Loving More Magazine as our Keynote Speaker.

You can get more information and register at: http://www.floridapolyretreat.com

Best wishes for 2008!

FPR 2008 Staff
http://www.floridapolyretreat.com

What is polyamory? Openly and honestly loving more than one person at a time, or ethical non-monogamy.

FPR is intended to be an educational, social and community atmosphere to share ideas and experiences about living the polyamorous lifestyle. (Do not come expecting to get laid... this isn't that kind of event.)

You Don't Have to Do It

Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:58:48 GMT

I’ve been watching on several polyamory boards to see people trying to make themselves okay with being in polyamorous relationships. I’ve seen descriptions of people feeling like their hearts are being ripped out. I’ve seen descriptions of people wanting to curl into a ball and cry while their partners are with other people. I’ve even had communication with people who wanted me to help them be okay with having sex with people they didn’t want to sleep with, but partners wanted them to because they thought that was “how you did poly”¹.

More?

Poly Charity Logo Contest

Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:34:57 GMT

http://www.polyamorousmisanthrope.com/2007/12/24/polyworks-fund-logo-contest/

The PolyWorks Fund Charity is really taking shape and we’re in the process of starting the site now.

We know that the polyamory community is full of talented, creative people and so, we’re going to ask for a little help and ask for a logo donation.

We need an original logo for the org that is:

1. Easily reproducible in print and on a website.
2. Gives a feeling of sturdy capability. (The name of the charity is PolyWorks Fund, after all, so we’re a workin’ charity).
3. Is not limited to the infinite heart motif one often sees in the polyamory community. While hearts are popular, thinking outside the box for this one is a good idea.

PolyWorks Fund is organized for polyamorous people to unite as a positive force within the global community by giving time, energy, and monetary support to the various needs of people throughout the world.

Send submissions to goddessofjava@polyamorousmisanthrope.com with the subject line: “PolyWorks Fund Logo Submission”. Please make sure that submissions are in .jpeg, .tif, or .gif format for the selection process.

Chosen submission will become the property of the PolyWorks Fund including but not limited to reproduction rights and sales rights. The artist of the chosen submission may keep copies for portfolio purposes. Unselected submissions will not be returned to the artist. Submissions that are not chosen remain the intellectual property of the artist and will not be reproduced nor sold by the PolyWorks Fund.

Deadline for Submissions is February 1, 2008.

Does it ever work?

Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:57:02 GMT

I've been wanting to run something by everyone and get opinions. Has anyone ever had a successful, longterm relationship with a secondary partner who does not want kids? Is it possible to balance an adult relationship that is independent from your primary family?

Online Support

Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:44:45 GMT

A lot of poly people turn to online groups for support in their poly lives.

As one of the co-founders of one such group, do I think they’re a good thing?

Of course!

Thing is, it’s a good idea to understand the limits of what an online polyamory support group is good for and what it’s not.

More?

But, I NEED You!

Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:37:42 GMT

I’ve been in sexual relationships for over twenty years as well as having made a study of them in the last seven. The more I study, the more I see that many problems in relationships seem to be problems of dependence and commodifying a partner.

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A noob

Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:58:06 GMT

I just ran across this community today (I think I'd heard it mentioned before, but today it got my attention), and, well, I fit the bill.

My qualifications: Two boys, Z, 11 this month, and E, 7 1/2.

Even before I heard about polyamory, that was how I lived my life. Moreso before my marriage than during (this will be made more clear in a minute), but suffice it to say, poly is my default state.

While I am technically still married, my wife, W, and I have been separated for over a year now and are planning on getting a divorce. The last six months or so that we were together, we were sharing our lives with K, who still lives with the boys and I. W now lives with her new SO, K2. I think that covers the living arrangements. K and I both have other loving relationships, but right now, no intentions of moving anyone else in with us. W and K2 are monogamous (and, yes, this does provide the biggest insight as to why W and I are getting divorced -- we've managed to remain civil throughout and can actually be better friends for each other now that we're apart).

I guess if I didn't go through the whole alphabet in that, it's probably not too complicated for y'all to follow. I don't have any serious conundrums right now. I just wanted to give y'all some sort of introduction, since I'd already piped up on a couple of recent posts.

And hey... I see a couple familiar faces, too. Small world and all that.

New Misanthrope Column: Hope We Never Need It

Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:14:32 GMT

Poly relationships have no legal recognition or protection.

Yeah, yeah, I know, tell you guys something you don’t know.

This doesn’t mean you should be an idiot if you decide to move in with your loves.

More?

out of the closet at school

Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:00:51 GMT

We are very lucky, that our 13 year old twins go to a small and very progressive school. So next week, there is a potluck thing at the school. My spouse asked our daughter if we could bring her other partner. Both kids replied that it would be great! My daughter added that all of her friends already know about our family, and that she wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who judges her parents by who they choose to love. :}

Make sure you read the comments especially #19

Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:32:30 GMT

http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2007/11/16/two-mommies-one-daddy-a-model-family/

Doing Well by Doing Good

Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:42:28 GMT

I often get what appears to be a wild hare across my butt to encourage crazy things to happen. In reality, I think about things for several months or years and then bring them up when the time looks right to me. This past week has been one of those times, and we’re getting ready to launch something I’ve wanted to for about four years, now.

More?

Polyamorous Atheists

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:15:41 GMT

I have created a livejournal community for polyamorous atheists. It is: http://community.livejournal.com/poly_atheists .
Atheism is positively correlated to polyamory, so there are many people that may join. So far as I could find, this is the first such group on the internet, at least in the english-speaking world.

Polyamorous parents likely have an even higher proportion of atheists than polyamorists in general, because polyamorous parents are rational enough to reject the 'childfree' doctrine.

New job...

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:56:43 GMT

I'm starting a new job on Monday. It's in the NHS in the UK (National Health service). Once I get to know people, I am okay with being out as bi.

But I am not sure as to what extent I should reveal my poly status. Part of me is still rebellious, and wants to be very upfront and honest about it. Plus I'd hate to think I could meet people who I like, and not be able to get closer to them because of the not being out as poly thing.

However, the NHS is very closely linked to Social Services. Basically, I am very worried about bumping into any old fashioned types who think that being polyamorous means I am not a good parent. For the record, I am a GREAT mum and all of my friends and family think so. I've heard so many dreadful stories about this kind of problem, but mostly in the US. I don't know how UK social services are with poly families.

So...advice/tips/experiences/answers needed. How out are you about being poly at work? Have you ever had any 'problems' with social services because of your poly status? UK specific examples would be excellent, but all comments/suggestions/advice/tips welcome.

Corvallis, anyone?

Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:27:30 GMT

Anyone in or near Corvallis, OR, that a travelling teen could use as an emergency contact?

best,

Joel

A request for help from a new member

Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:04:59 GMT

Dear all,

I have just found out about this community and, as a poly parent myself, I am very excited about its existence :-) I found this group as a result of posting this in other poly journals so bear with me if you have already seen it! Sorry!

I am currently writing a chapter on polyamory and parenting for an edited book on queer parenting. I would really like to have some further conversations with other people who are also poly parents. Please be reassured that your confidentiality will be guaranteed. I am also happy to show you the chapter before it is sent to the editor, if you would prefer that.

If you would like to find out more about me, you can check out my professional website on www.transformingperspectives.co.uk You may also like to know that I identify as queer, polyamorous and that I have a three year old daughter.

If you would like to help me with this project, you can contact me via email (alex.iantaffi@gmail.com). I would really like to hear about your experiences as poly parents on a range of issues. Thank you.

I have also set up a Google group (http://groups.google.com/group/polyparents), which you are welcome to join, since I hope that conversations on this issue can carry on beyond the scope of my current project. Please note that I have chosen to set up a restricted group to ensure as much confidentiality as possible and to avoid spamming of any kind. Therefore, please email me if you would like to be invited to join this group.

Thank you.

Alex Iantaffi