Caffeinated Hockey Elf ([info]tattermuffin) wrote in [info]parrot_lovers,
@ 2007-06-21 09:56:00
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Current mood: contemplative

Mulling over car transport options
So when I take my birds in the car, they go into a suitable smaller carry-cage with a perch or two, and that is then strapped into the car with the seatbelts. Despite that, I drive carefully, knowing that a sudden stop will likely send them off their perch and into the side of the carrier - just like would happen to us if we were in our seat in a box without a seatbelt on (oh wait, that's what driving in a car without a seatbelt is!) I also worry about an accident and not being able to get the cage open to get the birds out ... and this matters most with Greenbean whose travel cage is well built and would not come apart easily, nor be easy to "ease" out of a smaller opening if the car were crunched.

Then, I remembered this video and this video that were shared on one of the email lists I'm on: a green cheek conure in a flightsuit who rides to work with Dad on the modified top of the passenger seat.

So I've been thinking about this more, especially since I want to take Greenbean out and about with us more when we go places, and the more they are in the car the more likely they are to be with me when there is an accident (I've been in two since I started driving, one minor fender bender, one serious rear-ending that destroyed the car that hit me). So my thought was maybe to create a low perch (from PVC piping wrapped with vet tape for his feet to get some purchase) that would sit on the seat (backseat middle, away from any airbags!) and be strapped in like a carseat or booster seat, and then having him in his Aviator Harness with a non-stretchy lead attached to it and attached to the perch. This would mean he could hold on while we're moving, be attached to the car and with a harness on his middle (which is the safest type of restaint for humans too, hence it's use in miltary planes, etc - just too awkward for the convenience of most of us!) rather than "free" inside the box which stops, and would be easier to get out of the car quickly in an emergency (with scissors stored in the "stuff" box between the two front seats).

I've been thinking about this for a while, I want him to be safe, and I don't want him being able to get around in the car (my kids are buckled in, my birds will be too!). I can put down a blanket or something under the perch to deal with poops, so I'm not concerned about "messes" or possible damage to the seat (he's already figured out how to gnaw on the seatbelt that straps in his cage) and I can hang a toy-thingie down the back of the seat for him to play with from perch level. I know in a bad crash that there is no guarantee - be he in a small cage, carrier, or otherwise, but I want him as safe as reasonable - and I think this may work. Plus it would make it possible to travel with him and humans in the other four seats (currently doing that means taking the SUV because his carrycage is too big for the center seat of the hybrid).

So, I am asking for constructive input here (please don't flame me - I know we all have different ideas of the best way to manage our birds). Help me think this through - give me other ideas for making travelling with him safer in case of a sudden stop or a rear-end hit that will send him off his perch, point out things that might make my idea above a safer one, point out issues that I may not have considered so I can take them into consideration, etc.

Thanks!




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[info]leatherfemme
2007-06-21 05:47 pm UTC (link)
My only hesitation with something like that would be the UFO's that could hit the bird.

But, yeah, bird in a box has never seemed all that safe to me either.

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 05:52 pm UTC (link)
I had to read that twice - UFO has come to mean "unfinished object" in my mind from the knitting community. LOL

Good point though. We'd have to be more conscious of what else is in the car/backseat. I have "cubbies" in the Jeep for the kids that hang on the back of the seat so they can store nibbles and such on rides, maybe I'll consider those for the hybrid too.

Thanks!

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[info]palintheist
2007-06-21 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Aliens hit bird? :O

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[info]rumorofrain
2007-06-21 05:51 pm UTC (link)
Wow, that's pretty awesome. I've had that same concern about my two caiques, since they ride in the car in a small travel cage which is seatbelted. Interesting idea!

Any thoughts on how you would attach a non-stretchy lead to the Aviator harness?

You might even be able to modify a child booster seat. That might make it more securely seatbelted in.

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[info]rumorofrain
2007-06-21 05:53 pm UTC (link)
Woah, I don't know what happened to my grammar in that last sentence. What I meant to say was, "That might help the seatbelt hold it more securely."

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 05:54 pm UTC (link)
I figured I'd use the same sort of leash material that is used for the Feather Tether harnesses with a buckle of some sort that I could then slip into the front of the harness and buckle around it - making it easy to remove once we get out of the car and I'm using the actual Aviator leash. I don't want to just clip it on like on a dog leash - I want something more difficult for Greenbean to manipulate so he can't just let himself off the lead ...

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 05:56 pm UTC (link)
Oh, posted that before responding to the bit about using a real booster seat. I like that idea - definitely would make it easier to secure into the car. I'm totally hitting Babies R Us after work to look at designs so I can mull over how a perch could be secured to it! :)

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[info]miserianocturna
2007-06-21 06:28 pm UTC (link)
The way I've always done it [with Bailey at least] is to just let her sit on my knee and look out the window while in the car. I don't drive of course, I have someone else do that. The idea of restraining a macaw and driving is scarey to me. ;)

I've never had a problem with having her unrestrained in the car. When I moved to and from Indiana she was unrestrained, the first time she sat on my knee and watched the scenery [and threw up. darn carsick bird...] and the second time she sat ontop of the cat carriers and hogged the AC and napped. She loves car rides and since she is flighted now, she either has a foot harness or her aviator on.

Also, unrestrained is the only option for me because she is too big for a normal carrier. She would have to have a XXLG dog crate so it wouldn't mess up her tail. She has also sat on the back of the rear seats without a problem. She is also really calm and happy in the car, so I wouldn't reccomend this for a more neurtoic bird.

My smaller birds go in a travel carrier since they are all flighted and slightly skittesh when in a flock scenario.

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 06:35 pm UTC (link)
See, I'm not ok with that. I'm a huge proponent of seatbelts - noone ever goes in my car without wearing on. And I no more want a bird being propelled around the inside of the car by the force of an impact than I do a child (or me!)

The rear ender I had a few years ago would have sent a non-restrained bird through the windshield, I'm sure. I had horrid bruises from the seatbelt and of the necklaces I had hanging off the cigarette lighter (which was near my knees) - one ended up on the dashboard, the other was all the way in the back of the car between the spare tire and the frame.

Plus, there's no way GB would stay put without restraint - he'd be crawling over me and into my face while I was driving. He's a brat that way. ;)

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[info]nambroth
2007-06-21 08:04 pm UTC (link)
I agree- all the time you hear about folks that are killed because of not wearing restraint. Just two weeks ago a local family and all the older children visiting them (like 4 kids) were killed because the kids were thrown from the backseat and killed. They were of legal age to be without a seatbelt in the back seat. My driving instructor who was an ex cop once told me that he's never had to pull a dead body out of a seatbelt. Yeah you can get nasty injuries, but they'll save your life. :}

I'd love to hear what you come up with. I occasionally (maybe 2x a year) take long road trips with my birds and they ride very well but always want to be -out-, and if there is a safe way to have their harness act like a seatbelt, that'd be really cool.

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[info]maui_dolphin
2007-06-21 06:58 pm UTC (link)
A bit offtopic :P but that green-cheek is a hybrid!
Black-cap conure with a Green-Cheek :P

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 07:38 pm UTC (link)
Actually I believe it's a colour mutation GCC - yellow sided, I think :)

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[info]maui_dolphin
2007-06-21 09:54 pm UTC (link)
I've never seen the neck feathers so Vivid with the black on white though, that's why it makes me think that. :)

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[info]ltdead
2007-06-21 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. His little neck ruffle looked awfully vivid to me! I was like '... that's a yellow-sided? I've never seen a yellow-sided look that beautiful!'

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[info]selasphorus
2007-06-22 01:35 am UTC (link)
Granted, the quality in YouTube can be kinda off, but the video poster says the bird's from Pampered Peeps Aviary, and from looking at the breeder's site, they breed a lot of greencheek mutations and just got crimson-bellies, no black-caps to be found.

I'm thinking it's just an interesting marking that doesn't show up the best in the YouTube video, rather than a hybrid.

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[info]maui_dolphin
2007-06-22 01:00 am UTC (link)
I look at it again and it still makes me think black cap hybrid because the neck feathers are triangle shaped rather than rounded like a normal green cheek.

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[info]palintheist
2007-06-21 07:09 pm UTC (link)
This is not really helpful for you, but I find that having a swinging perch can sometimes help with absorbing energy from sudden stops - the perch swings forward instead of transferring all the energy to the bird.

On the downside, if the bird chooses not to sit on it, it'll probably smack 'em in the head.

It's too bad there's no such thing as a springy perch, or a shock-absorbing perch... birds can handle a little perch-wiggling if a perch is mounted on a heavy spring or something.

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 07:40 pm UTC (link)
Sadly, none of my birds 'cept the budgies like swings - even when it's a "parked" cage where they're in control of the swinging. Which actually means I have a whole bunch of swing toys that are totally unused 'coz noone likes em!

And yah - hanging toys in the cages is something I learned early on not to include when going on a road trip. I end up with a bird on the bottom of the cage making pathetic noises 'coz he's afraid of being brained! :)

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[info]zandperl
2007-06-21 07:19 pm UTC (link)
Kudos for thinking of this! I definitely agree that birds should not be free in the car - my last bird enjoyed sitting on my right knee, underneath the steering wheel, for the first half hour (Panic stop = SQUISH!). After that she flew into the back seat and wandered around there scaring me out of my wits over what trouble she could get into. Birds are definitely a distraction while driving, and if you can convince yourself your bird is safe in the car, you will be able to drive with all your attention on the road.

A cage is better than nothing, but as you mentioned a more secure form of restraint is even better in the event of an accident. I'm not sure whether unstretchy would be required; consider as another option, using some stretchy material that at its maximum stretch would still come short of the windshield (or whatever other surface they could hit). This would allow a softer stop in case of an accident, kinda being equivalent of a birdie airbag as opposed to a birdie seatbelt.

As for getting him out of the car in case of an accident, consider carrying heavy-duty wire clippers (hedge trimmers might do in a pinch) in the car for the cage, and scissors for the harness. While rescue people will have equipment that can do the job, their priority will be for the humans to the exclusion of pets (as a recent post here illustrated when the poster's car broke down and was towed). If you are uninjured or only mildly injured by the accident, you could use the clippers or scissors to free Greenbean, and then refuse to let first responders take him from you when they arrive.

In case of an accident with him in the car, right after calling 911, call a friend of yours who you trust with Greenbean's life - that friend's ONLY duty will be to take care of Greenbean and to make sure he gets to a vet immediately if he has injuries. (The friend should have contact info for your vet, and an e-vet.) First responders will be taking care of you, so the friend's best way to help you will be to ease your mind about Greenbean.

If/when you do complete the harness/car seat mod, I'd really love to see photos of it.

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 08:18 pm UTC (link)
I had thought about the stretchy = slower stop idea, esp since that's the point of the stretch leash for the harness in the first place, but wasn't sure it wouldn't give him too much leeway to wander in the car or end up getting too close to the side airbags ... although I'm not sure there are any in the back doors. I'll have to look that up.

Thanks :)

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[info]zandperl
2007-06-21 08:40 pm UTC (link)
I believe in most cars airbags will only go off if there's a person in the associated seat. Moreover, for the past few years they've even made it in most cars so the front passenger seat airbag will not go off if the person is under something like 75lbs, since studies showed that children in that seat were harmed by the airbag more than they were helped.

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[info]bloolark
2007-06-21 08:43 pm UTC (link)
That entirely depends on the car. In the most recent year cars, (I'd say 2005+), they have weight sensors and/or the ability to turn off the passenger side airbags.

In even slightly older models, though, that isn't the case. My 2003 Honda would deploy airbags on the passenger side regardless of whether or not someone's in the seat.

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[info]bloolark
2007-06-21 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Here's the only worry I have about that, and it may be worth asking a vet about:

Parrots don't breathe like us. They need to expand and contract their chest in order to breathe, since they don't have a diaphragm. I would worry that a harness around the body, if there was a sudden stop, might damage their respiratory system enough that it could cause death even if it wasn't a big injury.

This would obviously not be a problem in normal harnessing situations, but a car accident puts out huge amounts of force.

The other thing is, of course, other stuff in the car hitting them.

They do sell bird car seats though! http://www.parrot-paradise.com/#ptc is one from a quick google search.

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[info]tattermuffin
2007-06-21 08:20 pm UTC (link)
Email to the vet sent - I'll let you know what she says. Thanks for thinking of this, although the more I think on it, the more I think that if the accident is bad enough to do that, it's likely bad enough to throw him against the cage badly enough to do head/wing/chest damage too. May well be a "if the accident is that bad, you'll be heading for the vet anyway" sort of thing. We'll see what she says!

And yah, we'd definitely have to batten down the loose stuff in the car, but that's not a bad thing. It's a danger to the humans too!

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