orbital_2008: Orbital report

philbradley (

philbradley) wrote in

orbital_2008,
@ 2008-03-30 13:17:00

Orbital report
This was, through no fault of the convention, the organisers or the hotel one of the worst Eastercons that we've been to in 21 years. Basically down to the fact that we were both recovering from the flu/cold/cough thing that's been doing the rounds and were both wiped out, particularly Jill who is coping with the chemo on top of everything else.

We were booked in for the Thursday night but just felt too bad to make even the short (90 minute) drive to the hotel, so set off on the Friday morning. The hotel had given our room away since we'd not turned up the previous night, but they miraculously found us a room, which was jolly decent of them. Only problem with the room was that it was cold - even with the heating up, it was cold. I had to get two extra blankets to put onto the bed before we were close to warm. The hotel itself was fine, other than the cold spots everyone else has mentioned, and the total waste of space that is the atrium area. It reminded me of the James Bond set with the pirahana fish circling underneath. I kept expecting to hear the bridge bit swish away and hear the scream as someone fell to a watery, fish nibbled doom.

Nicely sized dealers room. Good art show room, which was a pain since I didn't actually get around to doing any art stuff this year - I usually get it ready the week before, and that was knocked on the head. We got to the panel items that we were on or involved with in some way - 2 tecchie related ones, a quiz and an Art related one in my case, a workshop on massage for Jill and our Urban exploring one on the monday which had a fair number of people at, which was good. Other than that we generally sat somewhere warm and chatted to friends or went back to the room and just slept. Which was a real annoyance, with all the good stuff going on, all we felt capable of was going to sleep! So we didn't see *any* panels or items we weren't involved with. Which isn't that much of a surprise I guess since we don't normally, but that's through choice as much as anything else.

It was good to see so many new people; clearly a vote for having stuff in London IMO, so it's good to see that we'll be back there for '10.

So, I'm sure it was a great con, and we're sorry to have been there and missed it - and apologies to people who might have expected us to be a little brighter - we wish we had been as well!

(Post a new comment)

	frandowdsofa 2008-03-30 01:33 pm UTC (link)
	I was sorry to miss your Urban Exploring Panel, I finally had the leisure to go, but not the ooomph. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	d_floorlandmine 2008-04-01 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	Me too - it was one of the things making me consider booking another day, but in the end I accidentally slept through all of Monday and failed to make it back to the area. Also, not the only person who thought the atrium was asking for ninjas descending on ropes from helicopters overhead ... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Location (Anonymous) 2008-03-30 02:00 pm UTC (link)
	I have a profound dislike for all things London, It is not the centre of the universe. Contrary to some peoples views. We should look at Wales for a possible Con (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Location alex_holden 2008-03-30 02:04 pm UTC (link)
	Go ahead and bid, a Welsh Eastercon would be cool (seriously!). Though Chester last year was almost in Wales... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Location jophan 2008-03-30 02:06 pm UTC (link)
	I'd say the opposite. If UK fandom doesn't take the hint from Orbital and realize that Eastercon has to be in London every second or third year, they're a bit daft. I see your point, Anonymous, but be realistic about it: To get new recruits to fandom and cons, the cons have to be where the potential new recruits are. I would love to go to Wales, though! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Location (Anonymous) 2008-03-30 02:10 pm UTC (link)
	I would love to see a wales based Con, and would happily research and work with someone to make it happen. Come on lets go for it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Location

ang_grrr
2008-03-30 04:21 pm UTC (link)

I'd disagree with this to a certain extent. I think it's been a long time since an Eastercon has been held this near to London but I don't think it "has" to be in London as frequently as you suggest.

For the record getting to Heathrow was a right pain in the backside for me although I can't speak for other people travelling from the north of England. Not the cons fault, of course, but I'm going to be looking at rail engineering schedules for 2010 before deciding if I go or not.

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Re: Location

the_magician
2008-03-30 08:26 pm UTC (link)

I don't remember if you were at the Manchester Eastercon, but every arriving trainful of fans had their horror story of being up to 8 hours delayed in arriving (if I remember correctly) ... I was the weird person, I got the early Virgin train on Thursday morning (if I remember correctly) and actually arrived a few minutes *early*, which annoyed *everyone* I told about it :-)

Trains are bad in every direction, so putting a con in a place with fewer train services is actually likely to make things even worse ... similarly putting a con where there are few if any motorways is also going to be potentially worrying ... and putting it in Jersey, well, obviously that could *never* work (grin!)

The Celtic Manor Hotel in Wales looks great and has function space that could be made to work ... they have *no* interest in having us (at least every time we've asked they've said *no* at *any* price (well, any price we could afford)) ... we've looked at Cardiff but couldn't find a sensible site that was big enough/cheap enough/available ... ditto other Welsh sites ... but if someone can find one, there are many of us that would love to go to Wales for an Eastercon.

It always looks so easy to people until they actually try to do the hotel booking/negotiation ... that's why there are so few Eastercon venues and we keep using the same ones over and over once we get a good deal ... until they change management or decide to push prices up beyond the feasible (or become crap). And why every few years we try something different (Blackpool, Bradford, we even looked at a split site in Stockport ...) ... if we could stay under 500 people there are a lot more options, but that would mean capping membership numbers (so the death of Eastercons appears to be greatly exaggerated).

London is a great place to get in writers, publishers etc. and so should be in the cycle of cons (the last London Eastercon was 12 years ago, that's probably too long, which is why 2004 offered a choice of the Heathrow Radisson or Blackpool. You lot voted for Blackpool, I voted for Heathrow!)

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Re: Location

ang_grrr
2008-03-30 09:08 pm UTC (link)

I was just pointing out that "London" isn't automatically easier to get to than anywhere else using public transport. I struggled to get to Chester from *Liverpool* last year because of train problems, and they completely cancelled my air route to Glasgow in 2005!

I'm not quite sure, actually, why you are directing many on the comments here in a reply to me. I'm more than aware of the problems that committees have when trying to find hotels: it's another reason why I disagree with the idea that UK fandom is "daft" not holding every other Eastercon in London. It's hard enough finding a group of people prepared to run the thing, proscribing geographic location could only make that worse.

Edited at 2008-03-30 09:08 pm UTC

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Re: Location

the_magician
2008-03-30 09:58 pm UTC (link)

It's nothing personal, it's just the flow of conversation ... the replies aren't directed especially to you, just that when I come back to the computer yours is usually the last comment in the row and the one that my reply most naturally attaches to ...

... I agree that having every other one in London is daft, for several reasons, among the most important (to me) is that it would burn out London fandom disproportionately quicker, and as that's my local fandom, that would include me and my friends.

Once a decade is fine, twice in five years is probably the maximum (aside from the Olympics, I can't see an reason to expect a London area bid for 2012 ... 2013 might be better as the new hotels and new tubes etc. might be finished by then!)

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Re: Location

jander60
2008-03-30 10:01 pm UTC (link)

I think you are proscribing to have it in London with your comments. This is fixing a location. I do not think *we* were daft to vote for Blackpool. We were sold a deal, however I did not enjoy the outcome. I do not believe we should make it London as you will lose some of fandom who do not like to travel. Or is it that you may not be bothered if some of us cant or do not like to travel to London based cons?

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Re: Location

despotliz
2008-03-30 10:47 pm UTC (link)

I didn't read

ang_grrr's reply as saying we should or shouldn't have it in London, just that it isn't necessarily a good place transport-wise.

I do not believe we should make it London as you will lose some of fandom who do not like to travel.

Wherever the Eastercon goes it's going to lose some fans who don't like to travel and live far away from wherever it is. I'm sure there are southern fans who didn't care to go to Glasgow or who aren't going to go to Bradford as well.

Or is it that you may not be bothered if some of us cant or do not like to travel to London based cons?

I think that currently there are so few suitable Eastercon venues that when we find a good one like the Radisson (and I think it was a pretty good one, temperature and breakfast issues notwithstanding) it's likely that people will want to hold more conventions there. Currently we're looking at having 2 cons there in 3 years, having not had one in London for over 10 years, and I don't think it's completely unreasonable, with Bradford in 2009 and possibly Scotland in 2011.

If you feel very strongly that we shouldn't go back to London after that, I suggest you find a good hotel somewhere you would find acceptable and think about putting together a bid for 2012.

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	Re: Location ang_grrr 2008-03-31 06:40 am UTC (link)
	No I'm not: I'm saying that "this year you can't have it anywhere but London" is the wrong approach. It's clearer if you read my previous comments. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Location

despotliz
2008-03-30 04:54 pm UTC (link)

I think it's hard to say whether the increased attendance at Orbital compared to other Eastercons was due to a very popular guest of honour, the location, or people who don't go to every Eastercon skipping last year's smaller emergency con for this one.

I don't think the Eastercon has to be in London all that often. Certainly I think it's a good idea for it to move around, available hotels permitting. Depending on whether you count Jersey or not it's a long time since there's been an Eastercon anywhere near the south-east, and I'm happy to see it come back in 2010, but it will be interesting to see if the new recruits from Orbital have any interest in coming to other Eastercons further away.

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	Re: Location d_floorlandmine 2008-04-01 02:48 pm UTC (link)
	it will be interesting to see if the new recruits from Orbital have any interest in coming to other Eastercons further away Have to admit, I am considering Bradford ... (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Location

philbradley
2008-03-30 03:21 pm UTC (link)

Well to be honest, the fact that you don't like London is neither here nor there. Mainly for the reason that once you're at a location that's pretty much it. When I'm in the convention hotel it could be London, Birmingham, Manchester, wherever; I don't actually *care*. What's important is the getting to the location, and for a lot of people who live in London it IS important. Particularly the location of this hotel, just off the M25 and M4 means it's easy to commute to and from every day if necessary. And, for a lot of people London IS the centre of the universe. I've been to 21 Eastercons now, and I'm happy to travel anywhere to get to one, so just build a bridge and get over it 'Anonymous'.

As to your other point - I think an Eastercon in Wales is a good idea - if we can have 'em in Jersey I see no reason why we shouldn't find somewhere in Wales - I'd certainly go for one.

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Re: Location

exsmof
2008-03-31 12:08 am UTC (link)

Personally I am sort of the opposite. I value a location where I can hop out and do other interesting things. That is not to claim that my attitude is better, it is just an artifact of my "con-runner burnout" in the late '90s where I decided I would no longer travel to a different continent, bury myself in a hotel and then heads straight back home...

From that perspective, the Radisson is less than ideal, in that it is of bus/tube time from the interesting stuff in the city and without a lot of stuff around it. However if you spend that hour the things you can get to are world class! Sort of a trade-off. One of my friends who was spending a couple days at a hotel after the con near the British Museum commented that half of their Journey time from the Radisson to their home in Belgium was getting to their new hotel near the Eurostar train station...

From a convention with sightseeing viewpoint, of the other Eastercons I have attended Glasgow (3), Jersey (1), Liverpool (3), and London/Docklands (1) all had much easier access to attractions outside the hotel - especially good places to eat. Blackpool was sort of a special case in that there was a lot of things that I didn't have a lot of interest in. Other than the Ballroom in the big Leisure Centre.

This is not to say that my approach is better than just throwing myself into the Con-Time and staying there. It is just different. Given the difficulty in finding viable venues convenience to outside attractions should be fairly low on the list of things to look for...

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	Re: Location timill 2008-03-30 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	So do it. The main reason there hasn't been an Eastercon in Wales is because no-one's found a hotel that can cope. Similarly for East Anglia. If you can find a hotel, bid it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Location philbradley 2008-03-30 09:06 pm UTC (link)
	Cardiff would be fun. We could have a game 'Find the Torchwood HQ and blow it up'. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	surliminal 2008-03-30 03:42 pm UTC (link)
	I was told the atrium / fish bar area deliberately blocked out large areas as non-sittable cos the area was non-load bearing. Hence the fish pond design. I liked it :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

the_magician
2008-03-30 08:28 pm UTC (link)

I heard a similar rumour ... it would make sense, as that area used to be the roof (it was all open there with corridors running around the side) and they glazed it over and put in the bridges and such and if true, it's a clever idea!

If it wasn't for the lighting issue, I'd suggest moving the masquerade photocall out onto the light bridges for next time (hmmm, still worth considering, and asking a professional photographer to arrange proper photo floods, umbrellas and reflectors or whatever, though not sync'd flash)

Edited at 2008-03-30 08:30 pm UTC

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	d_floorlandmine 2008-04-01 02:51 pm UTC (link)
	asking a professional photographer to arrange proper photo floods, umbrellas and reflectors or whatever, though not sync'd flash) Actually, some well-balanced stage-style lighting could do the job there, especially with use of reflectors. Although blocking the bridges might be an issue. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

the_magician
2008-04-01 03:19 pm UTC (link)

By the time you get well balanced stage lighting with reflectors, you're pretty much at photo lighting anyway :-) ... the colour temperature is one of the things to consider (auto white balance only goes so far) ... and we ran out of techie points at Orbital (between major kit malfunctions and bringing a new team up to speed in a hotel that none of them had teched before for a *packed* convention ... we/they will know better next time!)

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	d_floorlandmine 2008-04-01 03:21 pm UTC (link)
	the colour temperature is one of the things to consider (auto white balance only goes so far) Yep, and not everyone has time (or functionality) to start playing with "custom white balance" options ... wish I'd taken the time to do that before taking panel photos ... The tech team were good at air guitar, though ... [grin] (Reply to this)(Parent)

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