Susan ([info]lil_shepherd) wrote in [info]orbital_2008,
@ 2008-03-26 09:50:00
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Con Rep
I wasn't going to do a proper conrep for Orbital 2008, having already commented on my personal highlights (and the fact that I wasn't feeling that good and went to bed early on Friday and Saturday – but then I loathe discos so would have avoided same anyway). However, feedback is sort of required, so, feedback it is.

I thought the con went very well indeed, with a few problems that were more to do with the venue than the concom's management. We have all mentioned the problems with rooms that were too cold one minute and too hot the next, the twisty little passages all alike (and the hotel management could do something about the signposting, which was far from clear), and the distance from the Real Ale Bar to bars where you could get something else or food. I would add that the disabled access really does need sorting out – I'm not disabled but I am amazed that I didn't fall flat on my face once – and that the sandwiches were... not good. The other con food was decent for what it was, if the confectionary was overpriced, the hotel shop had forgotten essentials and the biscuits that were missing from the complimentary tea-making equipment, and the staff in the bar next to the main hall were incredibly slow, despite the fact that there seemed to be dozens of them.

There was a good deal of programming, but the first couple of days seemed to me to be a bit media heavy, and, in particular, NuWho heavy. I also think that holding bondage workshops is something of a hostage to fortune in respect of the Press: definitely "Let's look at the loonies" bait. However, the George Hay lecture, and GoHs Neil Gaiman's and Charlie Stross's stints were highlights for me, as was Mitch Benn (thank you [info]the_magician) – and a series of panels in the main con hall on the last day, which seemed to up the ante (though I did want to gag one particular author/panellist – however, that particular person has been on my like-to-gag list for many years) in intellectual terms.

Moderators did occasionally seem to have problems keeping panellists to the point, and some participants seemed to be there to ride hobby-horses rather to engage in genuine discussion. (From what I have heard about the Religion in SF panel I am glad I missed it – speaking as a rather militant atheist who is fascinated by religion, and by its treatment within the SF field, from If This Goes On through A Case of Conscience and The Jonah Kit and dozens of others, and remembering the great panels on Religion in SF held at earlier Eastercons (Helicon?) and Novacons...)

All in all, an excellent con, and I will (almost) certainly be back in 2010.


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[info]cdave
2008-03-26 10:36 am UTC (link)
That's a good point about the speed of service. I don't think it's that the staff was slow, but that the tills seemed really really complex. I think it took about 20 button presses to record a payment for 2 Ales.

And someone ought to explain how to pull an Ale without leaving a huge head. The staff were lovely thoughm, and willing to top up to a full pint if you asked politely.

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[info]timill
2008-03-26 02:54 pm UTC (link)
They learned to pull ale on the job - they were pretty poor on Friday and pretty good by Sunday, at least IME.

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[info]the_magician
2008-03-26 04:36 pm UTC (link)
I ordered a half of lager shandy one evening (not for me!) and one barman passed me to the next, and I ended up with half a pint of beer and half a pint of 7up in the same pint glass. Close enough, but perhaps those exotic cocktails were just *too* much for the first barman.

Oh, and they didn't seem to serve lemonade most of the time, but 7up instead ... however that was fine with me!

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[info]the_magician
2008-03-26 10:53 am UTC (link)
I'm glad there was enough good things for you to enjoy. We've taken copious notes about the heating (which they are replacing next year, in plenty of time for 2010) and the bars (the Real Ale bar will be in the Atrium next time, and there will be soft drinks available there too, and we'll talk to the hotel about wine prices ....)

Mitch Benn was a collaborative effort. I proposed hiring in someone like him, the Gaspodes knew a few people and had a contact for Mitch, and Mitch himself lowered his price and bypassed his agents in order to ensure we could afford him. Worth every penny!

Also noted about panels and moderation, but I don't think that's a problem that's solvable, merely one that we can do our best on (if you want to send me the name of anyone that you think overpowers or takes over panels, we'll make sure they are more strongly moderated next time they are on programme!)

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[info]lil_shepherd
2008-03-26 11:55 am UTC (link)
I agree with you that the moderation problem is not solvable. (I'm a dreadful moderator myself - I always want to join in.) We are not professionals and real moderation is not a skill that can be acquired without both training and experience. It is also a problem when - as is normal - the panel is full of opinionated (and sometimes famous) people who want to talk about something different, or who haven't quite 'got' what the panel is about. In the past I've had to walk out when Very Famous Authors have been spouting bullshit - though not at Orbital, I hasten to add - before I got on my hind legs and bellowed corrections at them. It takes nerve to tell someone who you may admire very much to "Get back on topic" and mean it. What's more, fans in the audience may take offence... (I'm not at all sure what the panellists felt when, many years ago now, a well known fan who was moderating a panel sent a roving microphone down to [info]coth and me so that we could heckle more effectively.)

When I see you next I may mention names - but it's only my opinion, and I've seen other reports praising the person-I-want-to-gag, so that opinion isn't worth an awful lot, really.

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[info]the_magician
2008-03-26 01:44 pm UTC (link)
I have a short list already of "P-I-W-T-G" on panels ... loud people who don't let other panellists speak, people with hobbyhorses, people who drag it off topic, people who use rhetorical techniques like attacking the person rather than their ideas ("well, I'm not surprised a total idiot like you would think that", though perhaps phrased slightly more politely, or not), people who shout down other people or use an attack on some minor detail or mis-speaking to state that the rest of their idea must be equally false etc. Good debating style, poor panellist style. I didn't see any of that happening at Orbital (but then I saw the programme items I was on, the play and Mitch Benn, and er, that's it (oh, maybe 10 minutes in the second disco, maybe less)

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[info]iainjcoleman
2008-03-27 12:57 am UTC (link)
[info]sugoll and I ran a "How to Run a Panel" panel on Friday. Sadly, it is in the nature of these things that the people who most need to attend such a panel would never dream of doing so.

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[info]lil_shepherd
2008-03-27 08:09 am UTC (link)
True, and I have to admit I missed it myself - but it is also in the nature of such panels that they occur early in the con when many people haven't arrived, everyone meets friends they haven't seen for years, the bookroom has just opened...

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[info]despotliz
2008-03-26 11:03 am UTC (link)
Seconding what Chris said above, I would love to hear who you thought was a particularly good or bad moderator or panellist, then we can think about how best to use them in future years.

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[info]cpt_buggernuts
2008-03-26 05:46 pm UTC (link)
I've got some feedback about some panels, is it OK to email or pm it to you?

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[info]despotliz
2008-03-27 10:53 am UTC (link)
Sure - can't remember if you have my email address, but despotliz at LJ will work fine.

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[info]kalypso_v
2008-03-26 11:56 am UTC (link)
But Friday night was the ceilidh! Still no good if you were ill, but not a loathable disco.

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[info]lil_shepherd
2008-03-26 12:05 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I know. That sentence was getting awfully complex at that point, though.

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[info]girfan
2008-03-26 12:30 pm UTC (link)
I was also surprised that the shop in the lobby didn't sell bottled water or juice, and that a 5 star hotel didn't have biscuits with the tea and coffee making facilities in the room. I was also surprised that the televisions in the room weren't flat screened ones (I've stayed at a few 3 star hotels that had them as standard), but, I suppose most Con-goers didn't notice or care.


Mitch Benn was a perfect addition for those of us who don't dance.


I had a great time, minimal problems, almost everyone was wonderful, the panels were great (though I was sad that a few I wanted to go to conflicted with each other) and I looked forward to future ones, especially 2010.


I am dying to know who the author/panellist is that you wanted to gag. Obviously I missed seeing this person!

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[info]the_magician
2008-03-26 04:34 pm UTC (link)
The shop in the foyer said they could get anything in (at least they said that before the con) but I guess business travellers drink in the bar and buy their bottled water at the airport ... :-(

... I'm surprised about the biscuit situation too.

They are in the process of refitting all their bedrooms, and I have no idea if the new bedrooms will all have flat screen, but I do know that the suites they have refitted so far do. In fact they have flat screens with VGA cables so you can plug your laptop into the TV to use it as a monitor! By 2010 I expect many things will have changed ...

... as a con-goer I've mostly watched either the morning news headlines or the occasional grandprix on the con TV, and since I don't have a flat screen at home, I'm not missing it at the con.

And panel conflicts happen every time you have more than one programme stream, as so many of us enjoy more than one thing (name any two items on the programme and there will be someone out there that wants to go to both; serious science vs egg decorating, Religion vs Slash, Rope Bondage vs Knot Theory (grin!). I had exactly the same problem, compounded by being on "duty" all con and so getting to nothing I wanted to see that I wasn't on (aside from Mitch Benn and the play)

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[info]girfan
2008-03-26 05:14 pm UTC (link)
I did bring some biscuits with since my husband sometimes wants one with his cup of tea and since he likes odd flavours, I erred on the side of caution. I've been in slightly grotty seaside B&Bs that had biscuits!


I liked our room, was surprised at the soundproofing from the airplanes (though the room next door on Sunday night/Monday morning was having a bit of a sex marathon and the woman was "vocal"), and the staff were so friendly.


I mainly watched the TV for weather reports and news since I didn't have a newspaper to read.


I've been to a few other cons, but not one this big, so maybe the conflicts were more noticable. One day, my husband and I gave up on our panel choice simply to have time to get a loo break and to get some food for lunch. I wanted to see the play and missed it due to another panel, and totally missed a reading and the auctions. I even volunteered some time on a table, though at a time I wouldn't miss anything critical.


I loved it and am so glad I went.

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[info]surliminal
2008-03-27 03:23 am UTC (link)
Just to mention for future (not whinge, honest): was I the only person who could not get the wi fi all weekend? We were in 1029 and despite vigorous efforts neither of us could get it to work (Radisson or other wi fi) all weekend. I gave in and used paying internet on my phone ..I asumed the router was overloaded? Also the lack of individual shampoo and conditioner bottles was a bit naff for a 5 star hotel (huge bottles of combo buble bath/shampoo - ick. ). Did they cut down on some luxuries to meet a con bargain price, or anything like that? Otherwise bar the problems you already mention, I loved the hotel and especially the bar with the fishes!!

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[info]vyvyan
2008-03-26 03:56 pm UTC (link)
These comments are the first I've heard of tea/coffee-making facilities in the rooms - our room certainly didn't have any.

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[info]despotliz
2008-03-26 04:02 pm UTC (link)
They were cunningly hidden in a drawer next to the wardrobes, in my room at least.

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[info]crazyscot
2008-03-26 04:16 pm UTC (link)
They were hidden in the wardrobe in my room, on top of the safe.

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[info]vyvyan
2008-03-26 04:26 pm UTC (link)
I think I looked in both those places :-(

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[info]girfan
2008-03-26 05:15 pm UTC (link)
Same as our room.

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[info]the_magician
2008-03-26 04:28 pm UTC (link)
Rumour has it that they were in the standard rooms, but that if you had a higher standard room or a suite then, being a five star hotel, you'd obviously call room service.

I would hope (though we'll have to check for Odyssey) that anyone without tea/coffee making facilities as standard should have been able to request housekeeping to set one up for them ...

... this was asked about before the con on the Yahoo group and at the time I checked the hotel website which stated that standard rooms had tea/coffee making facilities and then went on to say what the deluxe rooms had and I assumed (as did many others) that the deluxe rooms would have more!.

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[info]vyvyan
2008-03-26 06:25 pm UTC (link)
It wasn't a deluxe room or suite, but it was one of the few smoking-permitted rooms, so maybe that made it non-standard WRT tea-making facilities for some reason! (I don't smoke, but my sharer does.) It didn't occur to me to request them from staff, because I didn't know anyone else had them, until now.

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[info]del_c
2008-03-26 07:23 pm UTC (link)
I looked and looked and looked, and finally found them in a drawer. But, to be fair, the drawer was labelled "Tea and Coffee-making Facilities."

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