roy_d_hacksaw ([info]roy_d_hacksaw) wrote in [info]oneurope_live,
@ 2008-05-24 15:40:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
The Albanian Reaction
I've just been reading in the BBC World New Serbian section about how they hope that Eurovision will help the rest of Europe see it in a much better light. Well after what we witnessed from the hall last evening from some of the regular locals they'd better hope that some of their people don't let 'em down.

The Albanian booing and hissing is well documented, but it's pretty horrible to sit in among when it's going on, given some of the very recent history of this place. But there were also a few other causes for concern. The very normal looking family of old ladies and nice girls in front of us repeatedly gave big thumbs down to anything Ex Yugo that wasn't Serbian, and many people around the hall gave an apparent nationalistic hand sign when their song was on.

Now this may be just down to my naive interpretation of local rivalries, as I'm sure an English entry would afford similar hand signs in Scotland if ever our scabby isles were dismembered into their constituent parts, but given what we know, it perhaps wasn't the best advert for a country I've had an absolutely smashing time in, and really enjoyed the company of pretty much every local I've met.

Just be prepared for a fair bit jeering when anything remotely Albanian is mentioned on the telly tonight.

(Post a new comment)


[info]pinguthegreek
2008-05-24 02:51 pm UTC (link)
Well if the Serbs from the strees don't get the point of not booing, then they are losing out ultimately because they won't get into the EU with a tude like that. So no EU money.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-24 03:02 pm UTC (link)
So they won't get in the EU, because they boo Albanian entry? Please! Considering how recent Kosovo independence issue is - it is to be expected...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]pinguthegreek
2008-05-24 03:07 pm UTC (link)
Yes and no. It is to be expected, but it's not Olta's fault, is it ? How would they feel if this was their daughter, sister, relative, being booed just for where she was born ?

I am aware of the Kosovo tensions, but did she go there and say " Yeah, you go and upset the neighbours" ? I doubt it.

It just generally gives the impression of a lack of maturity and it just doesn't really predispose people on all levels towards them. I'm not a fan of the EU for many reasons. But it's the best hope that Serbia has of becoming more prosperous and generally a better place to live in. But I would think that their behaviour won't go unnoticed by people who decide about negotiations and timescales.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-24 03:20 pm UTC (link)
Do you seriously think that booing at an eurovision entry would impact negotiations for a country to enter the EU? They have more important issues there on the agenda, such as war crimes, etc... This is just silly...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]roy_d_hacksaw
2008-05-24 03:25 pm UTC (link)
No, not as such. But as an indicator for a symptom is could be very bad PR for a country trying to clean up their image.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]pinguthegreek
2008-05-24 03:27 pm UTC (link)
Yes, because as petty as it seems, it's a way of observing unprompted demonstrations of attitudes that may or may not be considered problematic to EU entry. It is trivial in the scheme of things, But each culture places different levels of importance to certain things.

Booing someone for singing a song, as I said before, shows they haven't thought it through. They're acting on a basic instinct.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-24 04:41 pm UTC (link)
Glad to hear you're having good time here in Belgrade. Three fingers raised are really a symbol we always use at all sporting events - nothing much nationalistic about it. Yes it WAS abused by the shady crowd in the early 90's but so were two fingers raised in Croatia and you would not suggest that there is something terribly wrong about raising two fingers would you.

As for Kosovo, I am sorry that you do not understand what has just happened to Serbia in February and (oh YES) courtesy of YOUR country plus a majority of other countries present at ESC. Serbia has been raped, mutilated, and bestially defeated and our people have suffered a historic injustice and national trauma which is going to haunt us and our neighbors for decades if not centuries. Yet three months later all you chipper representatives from countries who partook in this orgy are being most cordially welcomed and I have not heard any one having any trouble whatsoever. Put this into perspective. I myself am not protesting during Albania's wonderfully sung ballad, but if Olta did not receive a spontaneous boo or two among 20.000 people you would have to ask whether Serbs really cared that much after all.

Keep up the good work on the blog and enjoy tonight :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]nick_at_esc
2008-05-24 04:58 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for putting it into perspective! Issues like this always have more than one side, and sometimes you don't understand the other side unless you get a chance to hear it first hand. I'm optimistic that you guys will find a way forward that everyone can live with - including you - because you deserve a decent run of cards for a change. I know we can't hope to fully understand Serbia in two weeks from inside out little Eurovision bubble - but I think we're closer to it than we were when we arrived here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-26 12:23 am UTC (link)
>> Serbia has been raped, mutilated, and bestially defeated and our people have suffered a historic injustice and national trauma which is going to haunt us and our neighbors for decades if not centuries.

Really? How quick you forgot what you did to the Albanians since you "liberated" Kosovo in 1912 and especially in 1998-99? Do you expect them to be fine with Serbian rule after that, especially since the Radical Party is your most popular one? In 1912, when you "liberated" it and got Kosovo with Russia's help Albanians made 75% of the population. You last ruled it in 1400...

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Three-fingers is not something positive
(Anonymous)
2008-05-24 06:24 pm UTC (link)
The three-fingers sign is, as you said, very common during sport-events and so on but that doesnt change the fact that the sign is seen as something used by extremists during and after the Yugoslavia-wars. You can ask a croatian, macedonian, bosniak, albanian and even a montengrin and he/she will tell you the same thing - its an extremist serb-nationalastic sign.

Saying that it is used often, also at sport-events, doesnt change anything.

The booing and the three-fingers scares me alot and I think this blogger (sorry forgot your name) is very smart when mentioning EU.
No where in ex-Yugoslavia does the radicals have so much support as in Serbia.
That is a fact. Does Serbia want to be a part of the European life? Well I recommend them to use two fingers instead and look forward.


Johanna

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Three-fingers is not something positive
(Anonymous)
2008-05-24 11:14 pm UTC (link)
Wow, we have here some freaking expert in politics. Why don`t you try not to embarass yourself more.
"Bashing Serbs season" is always open to you isn`t it? And where did you find Macedonians and Montenegrins, when they are brotherly-serbian nations also? Discusting!
Let

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: Three-fingers is not something positive
(Anonymous)
2008-05-24 11:58 pm UTC (link)
Wow, we have here some freaking expert in politics. Why don`t you try not to embarass yourself more.
"Bashing Serbs season" is always open to you isn`t it? And where did you find Macedonians and Montenegrins, when they are brotherly-serbian nations also? Discusting! Why don`t you try to mind your own bloody business Joha-moha.

Now let`s get some FACTS for wider perspective:
1. The three-fingers sign is symbol of Christianity, The Holy Trinity and it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NATIONALISM or so.
2. When that Arkansawghshj redneck bad old Bubbah Clintonoid with that beauty queen ms. Halfbright won the contest for best demonizing Serbs and decided to punish them by raising cowardish bombing campain, after getting in, they suddenly shut up when they couldn`t find enough proof for another "genocide". Some 500 000 people were killed by Serbs, then 300 000, then 250 000, then 100 000, then 10 000, then 2.108!!! and that on both sides and combat victims.
3. Kosovo is Serbia`s Jerusalem with more then 1500 churches on that small territory serbian from 7th century, and Albanians, as they came on Balkans with Turks during their occupation of region always used foreign agressor to get what they want - Turks (even Turks defended Serbs from "poor and unprotected" Albos), Austrians, Germans, Italians, communistic Tito regime and now NATO and EU.
4. Next stop for albanian extremists would be parts of Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece.
5. USA dismembering Serbia only caused another circle of violence on Balkans and NO NAIGHBOUR COUNTRY support this, even if they were forced to recognice K inDependance.

And now some good old songs and videos (for Serbia`s same serbophobes) from Serbia`s southern province in 2004 (first of them was created by German author).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkgHkxIfgBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrNgcF8uls&feature=related

Enjoy and Serbs will NEVER FORGET.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Three-fingers is not something positive
(Anonymous)
2008-05-26 12:23 am UTC (link)
>>and Albanians, as they came on Balkans with Turks during their occupation

Hahaha. Total idiot. Albanians = as old as the Greeks in the Balkans.
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=albanian%20dna%20greek

Stop taking history lessons from Arkan. As far as getting help from others< see Russia. Albania has never attacked a country, we just want to live in peace. How many wars has Serbia started???

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Three-fingers is not something positive
(Anonymous)
2008-05-26 12:49 pm UTC (link)
Oh silly me, how could I forget - sure, Albanians are Illyrians! Yeahh! But, how come: you do not have any archaeolgical, historical, linguistic, genetic, cultural, ANY evidence that Albanians actually have illyrian roots, just to live at the same territory, 1/3 toponimic names are slavic or greek, even your famous Skenderbeg is of montenegrin-serbian origin (great grandson of Branilo, the Serb duke of Kastoria), name Kosovo doesn`t mean anything in albanian of course, like all the names for places, rivers, mountains...

You easily call people names? Sure you do, in old albanian tradition. Well, would you call these guys also:

“For instance, the ethnogenesis of the Albanians was an open question among Albanian scholars in the 1950s, but when Enver Hoxha declared that their origin was Illyrian (without denying their Pelasgian roots), no one dared participate in any further discussion of the question. During the Communist era, literary and artistic activity as well as academic studies (especially historic and linguistic studies) all adhered to this pattern. By this means a virtual world was created in which Albanians lived within the propaganda framework of the part and of the literary, artistic and academic works, which pervaded schools, libraries, cinemas, theaters and exhibitions.
...the old myths of national romanticism like that of Skenderbeg and ‘the religion of the Albanians is Albanianism’ remain the dominant mythologies in Albanian cultural and political life today."

Fatos Lubonja, ALBANIAN SCIENTIST
"Between the Glory of a Virtual World & the Misery of a Real World”

also this British guy you would call moron I suppose:

"In the matter of physical character, skeletal evidence from prehistoric cemeteries suggests no more than average height (male 1.65 m; female 1.53). Not much reliance should perhaps be placed on attempts to define an Illyrian anthropological type as short and dark-skinned similar to modern Albanians."

John Wilkes
The Peoples of Europe: The Illyrians
Page: 219
1992 Blackwell Publishers

Amazon quote:
"The first chapter, a history of Illyrian studies, explains how present-day rivalries among Balkan ethnic groups have turned research into a matter of national pride, with some resultant distortion of facts. Relying on archaeological evidence and classical texts, the author then surveys the history (through late Roman times), material culture, religion, and customs of the tribes residing between the Adriatic and the Danube whom Greeks and Romans called Illyrians."

Your people should reform school programs and try not to use half-trues or lies to support your national and cultural identity. Wherever and whenever you came from, there`s no need to destroy another nation`s lifes as well as cultural and spiritual heritage to make your Lebensraum bigger.

Yes, one more thing, as for "Albania has never attacked a country" you can sell that story to uniformed westerners. I guess everybody else in Balkans (especially Greeks and Serbs) are crazy as they remember certain albanian SS Skenderbeg formation during Nazi occupation in Kosovo province. You use EVERY available forein invader to get what you want as it was written above. I suggest you remember one thing: THEY ALL LEAVE EVENTUALLY, in 5, 50 or 500 years and Serbs and Greeks stay.



(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: Three-fingers is not something positive
(Anonymous)
2008-05-26 01:29 pm UTC (link)
"Total idiot" ??? Often talking to yourself?

You are failing to hide the truth regardless of what you do, due to fact that more and more foreigners are coming to this country (especially those who serve in KFOR troups) and realize what the truth was and is and reveal mistakes done by foreign governments (which are trying to cover up blunder, thus misleading international public". In that way there`s more and more stories like this:

True story of Kosovo
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/true-story-of-kosovo-1386421.html

as well as comments like this:

` "Kosova", as the Kosovo Albanians call it, is a basketcase area and should never have been recognised as a state. Negotiations on the future of the area were conducted in a situation where one side ie the Kosovo Albanians already had a promise from the US that it would recognise a declaration of independence, which was not exactly condusive to fruitful talks and realism !

The area has neither the capacity nor the capability to govern itself and survives on foreign monies, both legal and illegal.

In addition, although much has been made of Milosevic's treatment of the Albanians there, we hear very little from our media and the EU and US elite about the disgusting ethnic cleansing of Serbs from the area since Milosevic's army was obliged to withdraw.

Recognition of it as a country is a joke, albeit at the expense of international law. Essentially what has happened here is that larger countries ie US backed up (as ever ) by Britain and supported by France and Germany have come along and unilaterally declared that they recognise part of a sovereign country as a separate independent state because the majority of people in that part are of a different ethnicity to the majority in the state as a whole.

In clear and flagrant breach of international law, they have blatently ignored the principle that recognises the territorial sovereignty of states - by accepting that part of a sovereign state has the right to secede without that state's consent.

Further, given that they are now making it up as they go along and are in uncharted waters, they have the audacity to propose that the EU will somehow manage the administration of this "entity". What arrogance! No wonder that Serbs, who are the most European of peoples, feel aggrieved and wronged at this meddling by the US and its "friends".

The Irish government, giving in to pressure from the US and its larger "friends", has been complicit in this shameful act. Dermot Ahern as Foreign Minister who recommended to the Government that Kosovo be recognised should be ashamed of himself.

Fortunately most countries have had the good sense not recognise it and ultimately this experiment in "whatever your having yourself" statemaking is doomed to failure.

David `

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…