Josh ([info]burdenofdreams) wrote in [info]oberlin,
@ 2005-02-22 14:26:00
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Current music:calexico - black light

Hey, so I thought I would share some of the work in progress plans for East College Street and ask for any input/criticism or reaction you have to the site plan and architecture. Please don't feel like you have to be some architectural historian or urban planner to give feedback. The wisdom of crowds is sometimes more valuable then the expertise of one.


So here's the site plan. Looking from left to right you are on East College Street. The first shadowed building you see all the way on the left is the Apollo. As you come down East College Street you see the three blocked out buildings which represent the new structures. It begins where the Buick Dealership is currently located. The first building is 3.5 stories tall, has about 8,000 sq feet of commercial space and fourteen apartments. As you move further down the street you come to a cut away which ideally will lead people into an urban courtyard in the middle of the site. The restaurants located in the project will ideally have beer gardens and patio seating on the corners. We're unsure of what will go in the courtyard, but we're thinking a bit more active of a "green" space, maybe involving some concert area for the warmer months, a fountain and some chess tables.

The next building begins at about where Rax was located. That building has about 4,000 sq feet of commerical and 29 apartments. The first floor apartments that face the courtyard will have storefront space also, allowing people who want to have an office/shop in downtown a place to both work and live.

The third building is one that is situated North/South. It is smaller, one story and has about 6 loftspaces designed for artisans or folks who have small businesses and want to be able to live where they work. One of the ideas behind the live-work units is to create more storefront and give people a reason to walk around the courtyard.

The tiny fourth building you see at the end of the courtyard is a TBD community space.

All of the residents will park underneath the building in basement parking. For the commerical space folks will park along the edges, similar to what currently exists in the downtown.

About 14 of the total 49 apartments will be held as affordable for modest income people. A few will be sold at cost to people who income qualify. The rest will be market rate housing starting at 140,000 and going up. Plans call for geothermal heating and cooling, a green roof and hopefully some solar.

All of the retail space will be independently owned - no chain stores.



And here's the architecture. The view your looking at is from the corner of Pleasant Street and College Street. It will be a brick facade. The challenge is to mix something that blends in with the downtown architecture but isn't too little house on the prairie.




You can find more info about the project at www.sustainableca.com

Feel free to let me know your thoughts, comments, questions, criticisms, etc.

Josh

oh and major props go to garrett miller for designing the website.





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Question that's kinda related but not totally....
(Anonymous)
2005-02-22 08:47 pm UTC (link)
How would the incoming Wal-Mart affect this? There's been talk of it getting rid of the independent merchants in town already and chasing them out (and even though Stitch by Stitch moved last May, that space is only just now getting evidence of another renter which at least implies to me that if the other merchants get chased out a similar situation may occur), why wouldn't it chase out the ones in your complex?

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Re: Question that's kinda related but not totally....
[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-22 11:36 pm UTC (link)
The Stitch by Stitch building stayed empty for a long time primarily because the owner wasn't very proactive in calling back people who made inquiries. An insurance agent is moving in.

I'll try my best to answer the Walmart/chase out question below the next post.

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[info]oboeswinger
2005-02-22 09:21 pm UTC (link)
I like the look and feel of the complex that you're going for. My question is similar to the one above-- I'm sure that people really want to open their own independant stores, so in the short room all your space could easily be filled, but is there enough demand in oberlin and surrounding areas for these stores so that people will actually come to support them and keep them in business?

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[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-23 12:14 am UTC (link)
I'd be bullshitting both of us to I suggest I know with great certainty the exact effect Walmart will have on Oberlin. Same goes with giving any guarantee that the space will stay consistently filled over the long run. At this point we've learned all we can from studies and just have to take a chance (hopefully an educated one) - and thankfully our banks and investors are willing to have some faith in us.

What studies of towns that compete and thrive against Walmart/Big Box Development (way more then Walmart is coming to Oberlin --Applebees, Bennigans, Jo Ann Fabrics, etc are on the way) show are that towns that do nothing or even try to offer a similar experience to Walmart almost always lose.

Downtowns that become more "destination" points for day-trippers and sell unique items/food that you can't get anywhere else tend to thrive. The idea in Oberlin is that if you build these things to a critical mass, you'll begin to see a lot more visitors come to town and spend money and a lot more people utilize the downtown on a daily basis. How can we build upon things like Matrix Games, Ginko Gallery, Bead Paradise, Ben Franklin, etc? So far we have lined up a bakery, pharmacy, butcher, organic/gourmet grocery store, a bank, an indian restaurant and a mexican restaurant/bar. When all is said and done we hope to add an art supply business, some art galleries, a coffee shop, a CD store and a bike shop. I think these are the sorts of things that can keep people coming to downtown on a daily basis for things like fresh bread and birth control and also attract people from the surrounding areas looking for a unique downtown to spend time and money in.

The plural of anecdote is not data, nevertheless it is interesting and hopeful - almost all of the people who have expressed serious interest in opening up in Oberlin are doing so exactly because we are unconventional developers building a socially equitable green building in a downtown that isn't a a strip mall. They appreciate and have indicated a willingness to pay extra for these things. A lot of these businesses already have one successful location in Cleveland and would prefer a second spot in Oberlin as opposed to some sprawled out clusterfuck mall. As much as some people want Walmart and cheap tube socks, other folks want locally grown produce, fair trade coffee and a bicycle shop. We just need to figure out a way to find and organize them.

sorry to be so long winded

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[info]oboeswinger
2005-02-23 12:34 am UTC (link)
That was a fantastic response. I really respect what you're trying to do, and appreciate the nature of the uncertainty in your venture. I wasn't really asking my question with Wal-Mart in mind-- I was more just asking whether you are trying to design something that will draw in consumers from the surrounding areas or if you were focusing purely on demand in Oberlin.

The type of stores you'e got lined up and are looking to bring in look fantastic, and really looks like the kind of place that could draw outside Oberlin.

My only suggestion would be to have a coffee shop that is really comfortable and serves good coffee.

Oh, and it might be nice to have at least some of the larger retail spaces places have hardwood floors. I think it'd be good to think about how the college might be able interact with this new center, so that maybe student groups can use certain spaces for a fee when they're not in use, so that there's mutual benefit.

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[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-23 03:36 am UTC (link)
Thanks. I did want to add one element - which is that everything to the South of town is sprawling big time. The population within a 15 mile radius of here will skyrocket over the next 15 years. I'd expect a ton of new oversized vinyl homes to be built. What is interesting about a lot of these people is that even though they exist primarily off cheap oil and suburban sprawl, they are now starting to like some of the very same products that used to be considered "elite" like herbal supplements, vanilla latte bullshit drinks, Yoga and Whole Foods Markets. A really fancy Italian and Portugese market just opened in Lagrange, which is 20 minutes away from here and very for lack of a better word Ohio. My theory is that Oberlin will become a disney world of sorts for a lot of these people, where they can escape from the "red" areas and satisfy some guilty "blue" pleasures. Soon everyone will like hemp but me.

As for the coffee, we'd like to find someone to bring back something like Oberlin Music, but without the Music. A space that can be used from 8 am to 11 pm for a variety of different activities/performances.

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[info]inkyoctopus
2005-02-22 09:34 pm UTC (link)
Is the Kashmir Palace still involved in this project? I heard something to that extent from the owner about 8-9 months ago.

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[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-22 10:30 pm UTC (link)
Yes. I was just there today for lunch, actually. They are closing down the one in North Olmsted and coming here. It's run by a very nice family. Good food. We are way psyched to have them.

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[info]limewald
2005-02-22 10:05 pm UTC (link)
It's a wonderful plan, and I"m crossing my fingers that business will be brisk there.

Btw, so you're one of the people in Dawson's class today? You've always had good political posts.

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[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-23 12:23 am UTC (link)
Thanks! And thanks. Yes, I was the one with the Sonic Youth hat. Which one were you? The submarine, helicopter, commander or stress? Your posts always have points that make me think and more importantly you are always kind when making them.

Dawson was my advisor and the only prof whose lessons still feel relevant to me on a daily basis. He is really good at being Dawson.

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[info]inparticolare
2005-02-22 11:14 pm UTC (link)
I think you use a picture from my home town, Charlottesville, on your webpage! Crazy!

Also, did I happen to leave a glove in your car?

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[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-23 12:24 am UTC (link)
I doubt it but I will check and let you know if i find it. It is amazing how much trash can accumulate in a small car!

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[info]shannonmc
2005-02-23 04:41 am UTC (link)
I think that this will draw support from the student body in a way that Wal-Mart never can and never will. Probably from within the town, too, but I can only speak from my experience.

Wal-Mart came into my small town in Ohio (Washington Court House, to be specific), and it completely ripped it apart. We have just about nothing left, our downtown's half empty. Something like this, if you can draw in the shoppers and dinners and such, could quite possibly prevent that from happening. No one wants Wal-Mart to destroy their town, but it happens anyway. And something this uniquely Oberlin, something this interesting (not to mention environmentally responsible, with geothermal heating and cooling and such) could at least help keep Oberlin afloat.

I'd love to see a non-overly fancy Indian place, a nice comfy *good* coffee place that's open late, and a thrift store. That would be excellent.

As a side note, it's hard to imagine this drawing in our cloudy, snow-rain-covered Oberlin... but that almost makes it more appealing. (Ahh, the sun.)

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[info]lo_spettro
2005-02-24 04:37 am UTC (link)
Would you be willing to add some more information about SCA to OberWiki? The page for it is a little lacking...

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[info]burdenofdreams
2005-02-24 06:05 am UTC (link)
Sure thing, I'll add some stuff tomorrow. Thanks for letting me know about this and all the work you do on that site.

On a more irrelevant/i'm not trying to be as serious as this sounds note -- the FTL failure to launch label on the site is not my favorite saying. I mean, I don't personally care and I guess it is local jargon, but that phrase can be misleading. A lot of the successful businesses and non-profits in town are run by alum. Our very awesome progressive mayor of the town is an alum. Oberlin would be way better off if more alum "failed to launch" and worked to improve the quality of life in this town/county as opposed to other places. The small towns that are thriving right now do a really good job of keeping a good number of students around. The general stigma attached to staying here post graduation makes encouraging people to stay more difficult.

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[info]faeriez
2005-02-24 07:30 pm UTC (link)
It's nice to see a forum of students who feel so strongly about supporting local businesses. As a store owner (and alum), I appreciate the political reasoning as well as the personal loyalty that we (and most local businesses, I feel) work so hard to earn.

Also, it's wonderful and amazing to have so many young people in this town who realize that four months out of the year, there are no students here to support us, making it imperative to create and actively market Oberlin as a destination spot year round. I think that you're bringing in the businesses that will do just that. Thanks for keeping us posted on everything.

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