Pope Benedict: Ignoring Cultural and Religious Oppression in the New World

News reports demonstrate that Pope Benedict is ignoring history and the violent cultural and religious oppression of indigenous peoples around the world by European Christians. Speaking to Latin American bishops in Brazil on May 13, the Pope cited the "rich religious traditions" of Indian people but added that their ancestors were "silently longing" for Christ and seeking God "without realizing it." Pope Benedict further demonstrated his misunderstanding of history and the forced conversions of natives in North, Central and South America and of massacres and "just wars" when he suggested that the Church did not impose itself on indigenous peoples and that Christianity had not been detrimental to them and their cultures. "In effect, the proclamation of Jesus and of His Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbus cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture." Benedict also added that a return to indigenous religions "would be a step back."--------------------------------

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm an Aztec Reconstructionist and the author of a book on Aztec spirituality, so I find the Pope's position completely reprehensible, but it seems to me that it should be equally abhorrent to all pagans. Is it just me or is this attitude by the leader of the Roman Catholic church utterly despicable and without merit?

I wanted to ask anyone on this group to share any insights they might have into the theme of discrimination. If you are a pagan, or otherwise non-"mainstream religion" do you feel as though you have to lie about what you practice?

I attended Catholic school for 16 years, and my mother is a very strict Catholic, while my step-father is Jewish. I consider myself a Gnostic Christian, but avoid mentioning it at home and in certain places outside my parent's home because I've had unpleasant experiences. Given the fact that we are now in the height of an advanced worldwide media era, I would think that tolerance would be a more open idea. However, I'm consistently proven wrong. (I actually had a major issue about this at work, and it's become a taboo subject.)

Does anyone else feel like they have to hide their own religious beliefs, either from friends or family?

This may be old news but I just found out. I was looking for the Why Wiccans Suck website and the domain has been hijacked by some Christianity Religion site. I could say a lot of things about this but I won't. Check it out..

http://www.whywiccanssuck.com/

To anyone's knwoledge, has the Why Wiccans Suck website moved to some other domain by chance?

Just wondering if anyone has read the book "Jay's Journal?"

If you haven't, allow me to quote a part of the editor's note in the beginning of the book.

"Jay, 16 1/2 years old, had been into witchcraft, how deeply neither his mother nor his father had ever suspected, until after Jay put his father's pistol against his right temple and pulled the trigger."

"Through bits and pieces I gathered that they {Jay and his friends} were under some strange kind of 'sacrifice my own life or have it taken from me' type of programming. They seemed to fear that I could bring harm to myself or my own kids if more information were divulged to me. Their obvious and abject terror was contagiously and hauntingly real. I wanted out and I wasn't even in!"

What do you guys think of Paganism/Witchcraft being viewed in this manner? I'm almost done with the book now and even though the character Jay (this book is actually a journal written by a real person) mentions witchcraft occassionally, it's mostly about him mentioning "The O," which is the Occult. We all know that the occult can be a lot of various things, but the editor had it in her mind that the occult meant strictly witchcraft. Just wanting some opinions on this. Thanks!

I found this on a MySpace group.  Basic Google searches are coming up with nothing.  Anyone know if there is any truth to this?  Was this the actual metaphor or was this a ZOMG what if...

_________________

In less than 2 weeks, it will be St. Patricks Day. A day that St. Patrick chased the snakes out of Ireland. Well, the snakes were he Pagans. And they weren't just chased out. They were executed; Men, women and children. So, I've started a tradition with my coven and other friends.
On St. Patricks Day , all Pagans should wear something with a snake on it. A t-shirt, necklace, ring, etc.... This is our way of saying that the "snakes" are still here and that we are here to stay.

The Snake is a symbol of wisdom and free will. Which is why the church wants to get rid of all Pagans. We believe in free will and responsibility for our own actions. So, I am reaching out to all my pagan friends to join me in this new tradition and to pass it on to
all other pagans you know. If we can get at least 1,000 people wearing a snake this year, it would be a definite great start.

Please Pass this on. Thank You and Blessed Be. And May the Goddess Kiss Your Brow and Bring Light into Your Darkness.

All ye pagans!

"Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. . . . They are altogether brutish and foolish." (Jeremiah 10:2-8)


x-posted to my journal.

Hey all!

I have a quick question.

I started working at a clothing store about a month ago as a part time manager. It's really convenient for me since I'm a full time business major and I am able to gain experience without working 40 hours a week.

Interestingly enough, the owner of the store, "Walk on Water" is a Christian. And not just the average Christian, she's a hard core believer in Jesus and all that is wonderful in the Bible.
The compass in the center of the store, painted on the ceiling above the circular desk area is representative of the Bible. And under the carpet and hardwood are Bible scriptures.
Various scriptures in frames are placed in the back and in the bathroom and when we receive our store updates with our bi-monthly checks, she always says something about God. Also, at our manager meeting, she made sure to open with a prayer.

None of this really bothers me. It's a privately owned business and I am very appreciative of the opportunity that I was given.

BUT

Of course, there's a but...

My boyfriend came in to visit me one day and apparently, while I was with a customer, one of the other managers asked if he was a Christian out of the blue.

No one has asked me yet, but I am not one to lie about my beliefs. How do you think I should respond if asked about my religion? I don't follow any specific paths... I think I'm more spiritual than religious, but I am not sure how that would be taken.

Ideas or opinions?

Thankya much!

EDIT:
Thanks to all who responded, you were all quite helpful :)

OK, this phrase has come up again and again in conversation, insults and TV series of late. It purports to be a Bible reference, although I've been unable to find a reference for it giving chapter and verse:

'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.'

Anyone got a reference for that? It's to settle an argument and I don't have a copy of the bible in my house, unfortunately.

Cheers if anyone can help me out.

I thought everyone here would be interested in this article.

Wiccan Priestess Loses High Court Appeal

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court rejected an appeal on Tuesday from a Wiccan priestess angry that local leaders would not let her open their sessions with a prayer.

Instead, clergy from more traditional religions were invited to pray at governmental meetings in Chesterfield County, Va., a suburb of Richmond...

It's funny that this stuff always seems to happen in the South. I don't understand why prayer should have any part in government activities. There is a time and a place for everything, and I don't think city council meetings or sessions of congress are an appropriate place for religious activities. There are many different religions in the U.S., and if only a certain few religions are represented prior to government meetings, obviously, everyone else is going to complain. The bottom line is that you shouldn't be doing anything religious in that type of setting unless you can represent everyone. Since representing everyone would be a ridiculous and overly time-consuming task, what is the point? Besides, prayer really doesn't belong there. If a senator wants to say a quiet prayer by himself before a meeting, that is okay.. or if a group of city council members want to say a prayer together out in the hall before the meeting, okay... but that kind of thing has no place in the actual meeting.

If my boss wanted to say a prayer before every meeting we had, I think a religious discrimination suit would be pretty easy to win in such a case... so, why is it okay for a supposedly secular government that isn't supposed to establish a religion to say Christian prayers before meetings? It just seems stupid to me that they're allowed to do it at all. Anyway, that is just my opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree.

These are snippets only. You can read the whole article for yourself. http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html

"Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city," stated Repent America director Michael Marcavage. "From 'Girls Gone Wild' to 'Southern Decadence,' New Orleans was a city that had its doors wide open to the public celebration of sin. From the devastation may a city full of righteousness emerge," he continued.
"We must help and pray for those ravaged by this disaster, but let us not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," Marcavage said. "May this act of God cause us all to think about what we tolerate in our city limits, and bring us trembling before the throne of Almighty God," Marcavage concluded.

There's one in EVERY croud

Sorry if this is "off topic" but it just needed to be shared...

From der Pope's current visit to Germany, an article titled "Pope Warns of Increase in Anti-Semitism", and he pops out with a howler such as this. And I had hoped we were beyond such foolishness.

Benedict's remarks focused on the horror of the Holocaust, the common heritage of Christans [sic] and Jews, and the need for better relations to prevent such atrocities from ever happening again.

"In the 20th century, in the darkest period of German and European history, an insane racist ideology, born of neo-paganism, gave rise to the attempt, planned and systematically carried out by the regime, to exterminate European Jewry," he said. "The result has passed into history as the Shoah," he said, using the Hebrew term for the Holocaust.
- Yahoo! News Article

I'm glad we can blame all of Hitler, the Nazis and the Holocaust on neo-pagans. I'll have to make a note to remember that. I guess all the rising anti-Semitism in Europe is due to neo-pagans as well? Sigh.

der Pope is now officially off my Yule card list.

Ok, so this is just for fun. Did you know that you could once adopt Pagan Babies? Well, you could. And my mother did. Two of them, in fact. I found this when we moved last month mixed in with my papers and such. At some point when a move was made I ended up with some of my mother's papers. My mother's name is Maeve Elsbeth, and her father was John Francis. Since my mother didn't have a saint's name, they gave her Elizabeth as a middle name. Note on mom's name: Grandpa John convinced my Gramma Libby that Maeve Elsbeth was Gaelic for Mary Elizabeth, which was her name. When Gramma Libby figured out Grandpa John was full of shit, it was waaaay to late.

So my mother saved her pennies, bought a Pagan Baby, and had him baptized John Francis after her father.

( Pagan Babies! Collect Them All! )

Ignore the fact that myself and my brother are Pagan and I am raising three more Pagan Babies... We step carefully around THAT whole subject.

my husband and i have been together for 10 years and married for 5. when we met i was studying different faiths, the christian faith had never agreed with me. i was very open about this and my husband, who is catholic, never seemed to mind. we went on this way until we had children, now things are a whole different story. i support him and his family in wanting to involve the kids in a catholic up bringing. they were baptized catholic. i do agree with their moral system and dont see where that can harm our children. hes come to a point were he refuses to do take them to church or what have you, even at my insistance, unless im involved. okay, i can sit through a church service without a problem, but this doesnt seem to be good enough. hes afraid im going to "confuse" the children. where i think it would be good for them to know and understand not everyone has the same beliefs as well as teaching them to be open minded. hes all but said the only thing that will make him happy is if i go with and have faith in jesus christ. we dont usually argue about it, its come to a point where we just dont talk about it anymore (unless he goes off on a tangent). i do my own thing and keep it kind of hush hush because i know it bothers him. he wants us to have a "spiritual connection". im not really sure how to handle the situation. i think ive been more then fair and he thinks me selfish. he is a good man, and i would love to help ease this tense situation. any suggestions?

Pagans challenge textbook
http://www.avpress.com/n/30/0630_s11.hts
(This is an excerpt, for the full story, visit the link above before 7 days pass)
City attorney says chapter does not violate rights

This story appeared in the Antelope Valley Press on Thursday, June 30, 2005.
By ALISHA SEMCHUCK
Valley Press Staff Writer

PALMDALE - Outrage at what they view as erroneous and prejudicial references in a textbook brought members of the Antelope Valley's pagan community to the City Council meeting Monday night to voice their objections.
The book, "Changing Destructive Adolescent Behavior," is published by The Parent Project, a nationwide organization that subscribes to fundamentalist Christian principles and is used in a city-approved program called Families in Action - a parenting class intended to teach dysfunctional families more effective ways of resolving conflict and dealing with typical issues that arise in everyday life.

For some program participants, attendance is court-mandated.

Those in the pagan community find the book's content offensive - particularly a chapter that includes several pages of signs and symbols described as Satanic.

The text refers to Satanism as "self-destructive and frightening behavior" linked to violence and hate. It draws parallels with the activity of Latino and white supremacist
gangs.

:::Edit:::
This is not the best article, AND the reporter misquoted me. The book mentions gangs/Occult, the reference to 'slash' was that I said "if the book said gangs/Christian or gangs/Buddhist or Gangs/Jewish,or if there was a symbol of a cross in there, the book would be pulled so fast it would make your head spin."

Parenting Class subject of concern in Palmdale, CA

http://www.avpress.com/n/22/0622_s4.hts

Pagans: City-approved text 'inaccurate'
This story appeared in the Antelope Valley Press on Wednesday, June 22,
2005.

By JULIE DRAKE
Valley Press Staff Writer
PALMDALE - Simmering hurt over an allegedly incorrect and hurtful textbook
distributed by Palmdale's Families in Action program boiled over in public
Monday at a meeting of the Antelope Valley Human Relations Task Force.

The city-approved program distributes the textbook "Changing Destructive
Adolescent Behavior" to troubled families, many of whom have been ordered by
courts to attend classes to learn how to function effectively.

The book, published by The Parent Project, a national organization aligned
with and supportive of the tenets of fundamentalist Christianity, has drawn
fire from members of the pagan community for maligning their faith.

For more visit the link above, it will be gone in 7 day's time.

What the article does not mention is that this text specifically says Dungeons and Dragons and wearing all black clothing,
and having a "book of Shadows containing rituals of violent death" are considered Occult practices by the authors.
And the authors have NO statistical evidence to prove any of this, naturally.
Visit the Parent Project's website and check it out- they do Christian Ministry classes too.
Hmpf.

-Dragonhearth, aka Lisa Morgenstern

edit- oops did I mention how they go on and on about Satanism? and of course they mention witchcraft too.
the book also includes a pentagram, a 'fallen cross' (peace sign guys) as well as a seal of solomon, as being 'Satanic Symbols'.

http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Magic/MAGIC.htm

That site makes me cry.

I told my Christian friend the great theory of all deities being one, with all traditional gods being facets of that one Being, and that religion was merely the way we choose to worship that Being.

He says "That's what you believe, but why do you believe it?"
Me: "Because it's a DARN GOOD EXPLANATION"
Him:"You'd better be sure, because you're going to hell if you're not right."
Me: :Rage:

Cross posted to kestrel127

John Rosemond's take a 13 year old announcing she's a "Wiccan atheist."

We're deluded and we never talk about ourselves!"

Do you think he would have been this disrespectful if she had proclaimed herself a Buddhist?

All in all, it's pretty darned funny.

Sorry if you've already seen this, but I saw this on the NYC Pagan Pride Day Yahoo!Group, and thought I'd post it here. Apparently these individuals are representatives of the Alternative Religions Educational Network (AREN). Their site is http://www.aren.org/

( The Update )

Or might this "evil Christian" [yours truly] have a point here?

I've been playing around in Beliefnet's "Neo-Pagan Spirituality" board. Beliefnet already had a board for "Paganism"; the gist of why another board was created is that a group of "Neo-Pagans" were offended that other Pagans, Recons, Wiccans, etc. were debating them on their beliefs, and so they petitioned for another board. In my biased opinion, the difference on Beliefnet between "Neo-Pagan" and "Pagan" is the difference between "fluffy" and "serious student".

So anyway, I started a thread in which I said "the path to Love is the only valid path." The reasoning is, since Neo-Pagans tend to view Christianity as an invalid path at the same time they claim that every path is valid, there must be some unifying characteristic of all the paths they view as valid. As the fact came to light that I worship Christ, however, I'm being slammed for daring to "criticize" Paganism.

Here's your link: http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?discussionID=281459 Of particular interest are the posts beginning with post #25, which can be found here: http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=3&discussionID=281459&messages_per_page=12

(crossposted from my own journal)

This article, found in the Calgary Sun on Saturday, August 2, 2003, was passed around the campsite on Sunday. And it's being passed around the Calgary community still. People like this infuriate me. Mr. Coren went to one site. He obviously did not have enough interest in his topic to actually research it well. He interviewed no one. He only visited one site, which as we all know, is horrible research. I proclaim him guilty of religious intolerance and prejudice. He obviously had his mind made up before he even started to write.

( The Article )

I did my research. It took me several tries before finally landing on the Pagan Federation site he found (for there are several). If anyone cares to look, this is it. I find it offensive that instead of actually reading the site, he found only those portions which, taken out of context, he could mock without any actual effort. Not to mention those portions he simply made up without any supporting evidence whatsoever.

The worst part is there is nothing we can do as a rebuttal. The Sun, being the crappy paper it is, does not print valid letters to the editor. What they do print is edited down to a couple sentences long, and answered only by a one-liner snarky comment. The only option is boycott, and, to be honest, those seldom actually make any difference, are exceedingly difficult to organize effectively, and we just don't have the population to make that much of a difference.

So, I found this article posted to pagan and I find it interesting for a couple of reasons. I am disturbed by the lack of factual accuracy, i.e. Wicca as an ancient religion and the comment that "Wicca sees the Supreme Being as a "metaphorical notion," which is inconsistent with the above tradition..." The other disturbing item is this comment; "If Simpson prevails, the board could be forced to hear prayers from the mass murder cult of Jim Jones' People's Temple, the white supremacist Worldwide Church of the Creator or the American Church of the Ku Klux Klan."

I'm not Wiccan by any stretch, but I do find this sort of reporting to be a bit irresponsible. And I think, at times, cases like this do more to harm the cause of religious tolerance than to advance it.

Comments?