brock_tn ([info]brock_tn) wrote in [info]nonfluffypagans,
@ 2008-01-29 10:13:00
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Entry tags:burning times, definition, fallacies

The Witches' Equivalent To Godwin's Law
Forgive me if this has come up before, but in connection with the recent "Wiccan-Beauty-Queen-Ejected-By-Toronto-Pageant" contretemps, (see here for some recent coverage,) it occurs to me that within the modern witchcraft movement we have our own version of Godwin's Law, to wit:

"In any discussion of the interaction of modern witches with the rest of society, as the length of the discussion increases, the probability of the mention of TEH BURNING TYMZ!!! OMG!!! WTF!1!  BBQ!!!111!!! approaches unity."

Which really OUGHT to have a corollary, to wit:

"In any argument related to modern witchcraft, the first person to mention TEH BURNING TYMZ!!! OMG!!! WTF!1!  BBQ!!!111!!!  automatically loses the argument."

Please feel free to submit scathing criticism of these ideas:  I'm in the mood to be scathed.

Edited to add the phrase "as the length of the discussion increases," to the original statement of the principle.


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[info]tylik
2008-01-29 04:31 pm UTC (link)
WTFBBQ! seems particularly apt.

Of course, the two concepts have historical linkage at more than one level.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]brock_tn
2008-01-29 04:45 pm UTC (link)
Why is it that the best funny bits like that seem to be inadvertent? We've laughed for years over a church sign once seen by a friend:

On the marquee at Saint Joan of Arc Catholic Church:

"BARBEQUE TONIGHT 7:00"

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]brock_tn, 2008-01-29 05:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hps_sterling, 2008-01-29 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dolmena, 2008-05-30 06:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brock_tn, 2008-05-30 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dolmena, 2008-06-04 03:19 am UTC

[info]caliban1227
2008-01-29 04:31 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, no scathing here. I have to back this up 100%.

(Reply to this)


[info]ulfrslady
2008-01-29 04:32 pm UTC (link)
Did the pageant directors miss that beauty pageants offend some people simply by existing?

And, yeah, I think that's a pretty good corrolary rule. Burning Timez for the Lose!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]tylik
2008-01-29 04:38 pm UTC (link)
Oh, but hey, she was crowned Miss Canada Plus, which has to add some kind of political correctness bonus points, rights?

(Plus? Really? I mean, she doesn't look like she's in danger of dying of starvation in, say, the next five minutes, but what definition of plus sizes are we talking about, really?)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]ulfrslady, 2008-01-29 05:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tylik, 2008-01-29 05:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mythworker, 2008-01-29 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tylik, 2008-01-29 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brock_tn, 2008-01-29 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ulfrslady, 2008-01-29 05:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aislingthebard, 2008-01-29 06:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ulfrslady, 2008-01-29 06:51 pm UTC
;-D - [info]madfedor, 2008-01-29 05:35 pm UTC
Re: ;-D - [info]ulfrslady, 2008-01-29 05:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]julilla1, 2008-01-29 05:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voxwoman, 2008-01-29 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voxwoman, 2008-01-29 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravens_hearth, 2008-02-02 02:20 pm UTC

[info]madfedor
2008-01-29 04:37 pm UTC (link)
I'm in the mood to be scathed.

I've got a sun lamp I'm not using. Would that do?

I've seen a private, unconfirmed report that at least one sponsor has already withdrawn from the pageant. I urge all to keep an eye on local reactions, as they may very well serve to debunk the Godwinian BT ploy before it happens.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]misslynx
2008-01-29 07:00 pm UTC (link)
Yep. Marca College pulled out. And Mary Kay were surprised to find themselves listed as a sponsor at all, because they'd never heard of the pageant, let alone sponsored it. Apparently they're pursing legal action to have their logo removed from the pageant web site.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Can't criticize....
[info]blaackangel
2008-01-29 04:39 pm UTC (link)
...can only clap!

(Reply to this)


[info]mythworker
2008-01-29 04:40 pm UTC (link)
We'll call it "Brock's Law"!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]tryst_inn
2008-01-29 05:18 pm UTC (link)
I'll second this.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]cavalorn, 2008-01-29 05:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]victrola58, 2008-01-29 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wilhelmina_d, 2008-01-29 06:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voxwoman, 2008-01-29 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]divineaspect, 2008-01-29 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brock_tn, 2008-01-29 06:20 pm UTC

[info]recalcitranttoy
2008-01-29 04:46 pm UTC (link)
Very much like the analogy. Mike Godwin would be proud.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]brock_tn
2008-01-29 05:09 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. So I hope I've managed to convey a distinction between serious consideration/discussion of historical persecutions for witchcraft and the emotional acting-out over the umpteen-gazillion-martyred-witches-slaughtered-by-teh-eeeVILE-Xtians.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]swisscelt, 2008-01-29 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brock_tn, 2008-01-29 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]recalcitranttoy, 2008-01-29 05:32 pm UTC
Off topic - [info]lark_ascending, 2008-01-29 05:21 pm UTC
Re: Off topic - [info]recalcitranttoy, 2008-01-29 05:33 pm UTC
Re: Off topic - [info]lark_ascending, 2008-01-29 05:38 pm UTC
Re: Off topic - [info]recalcitranttoy, 2008-01-29 05:40 pm UTC
Re: Off topic - [info]lark_ascending, 2008-01-29 06:14 pm UTC

[info]princekermit
2008-01-29 04:47 pm UTC (link)
No scathing criticism.

How about praise instead?

(Reply to this)


[info]mytimetoheal
2008-01-29 05:01 pm UTC (link)
If you wanted to be scathed for this opinion, maybe you shouldn't have posted in the nonfluffy group. ;-)

Not much to add, other than I second that this should hereafter known as Brock's Law.

(Reply to this)


[info]an_caomhnoir
2008-01-29 05:29 pm UTC (link)
You. Rock.

(Reply to this)


[info]nevermore666
2008-01-29 05:42 pm UTC (link)
Gwaaaagh they hit one of my soft points. >:|

No criticism at all from me. Nope. None.

(Reply to this)


[info]arymede
2008-01-29 05:57 pm UTC (link)
A third for naming it Brock's Law, and on the subject of the beauty pageant craziness, I have long since ceased to be amazed at the sheer inanity of what comes out of people's mouths, in this or any other context.

(Reply to this)


[info]tylik
2008-01-29 05:58 pm UTC (link)
To be anal (or to procrastinate on my Computational Neuroscience homework...) it occurs to me that the above formulation neglects dt, and so I venture this minor revision:

"In any discussion of the interaction of modern witches with the rest of society, as the length of the discussion increases, the probability of the mention of TEH BURNING TYMZ!!! OMG!!! WTF!1! BBQ!!!111!!! approaches unity."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]brock_tn
2008-01-29 06:16 pm UTC (link)
I had just noticed that myself, and was trying to figure out a way to point this out. Thank you.

This proposed amendment has my entire approval.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]morgan303
2008-01-29 06:01 pm UTC (link)
No scathing here, either; I'm calling it Brock's Law from here on...:)

(Reply to this)


[info]hagazusa
2008-01-29 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Can we burn Nick Cage now? I want to burn Nick Cage!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]mythworker
2008-01-29 07:07 pm UTC (link)
Killing Nicolas Cage won't bring back your goddamn honey!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]ryuutchi, 2008-01-29 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hagazusa, 2008-01-29 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ryuutchi, 2008-01-29 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hagazusa, 2008-01-29 09:10 pm UTC

[info]die_uberfrau
2008-01-29 06:38 pm UTC (link)
Here, you win the Internet.

*The* Internet. Not *an* Internet.

-- Siggy, who is wiping coffee off herself

(Reply to this)


[info]bluegiant
2008-01-29 09:20 pm UTC (link)
Other than the obvious exception about discussions of THE BURNING TIMES mythos, looks solid to me. Then I am pretty sure the loser is the first to take it as a HERSTORIKAL EVENT!!!!(TM).

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]brock_tn
2008-01-29 10:16 pm UTC (link)
Well, as [info]swisscelt has pointed out, it's long been held that Godwin's Law does not apply to serious discussions of the Second World War, the NDSAP as an historical phenomenon, and that sort of thing.

I presume that a similar exception would apply in this case, both with respect to discussions of witchcraft persecutions as an historical phenomenon, and to discussions of the modern myths about "The Burning Times" AS myths.

edited to fix an HTML error

Edited at 2008-01-29 10:18 pm UTC

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]theadydal
2008-01-29 10:13 pm UTC (link)
Nice one Brock.

(Reply to this)


[info]vieux_yeux
2008-01-29 10:37 pm UTC (link)
It is deeply saddening that people still think -800 years after the church started burning my people (Unoficially **Twenty million** Pagans were put to death)

Lose.

(Reply to this)


[info]mordantcarnival
2008-01-29 10:38 pm UTC (link)
Nice one. (The major difference being, of course, that the atrocities of teh Nazi era are a matter of historical record whereas Teh Bernin Tiemz!!1!are a touch harder to substantiate. Persecution of witches, yes. OMGoddess 90000000000000 wymyn were KILED!!, less so.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]brock_tn
2008-01-30 12:32 am UTC (link)
Yes, but there's a significant qualitative difference between discussion of historical witchcraft persecutions in some serious context versus emoting over the modern myths about[insert impossibly large number here] innocent women murdered by the Powers-That-Be.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]retrospection_
2008-01-30 02:55 am UTC (link)
Ok, I'll bite. Where was she getting all OMGZ teh Burning Times?

because the article just seems to show her being offended at the blatent attack on her moral fiber...

I don't see how she's pulling a Brock's Law at all

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]brock_tn
2008-01-30 03:07 am UTC (link)
The relevant comment is not in the original blog post, but in one of the subsequent comments added by a reader:

[snippage]

It is deeply saddening that people still think -800 years after the church started burning my people (Unoficially **Twenty million** Pagans were put to death), that we are evil - when in fact Pagans honour Mother Earth, our Gods and Goddesses, Angels, other loving spirit guides and the Universe (Whom some believe is God).

[more snippage]

Two years ago it was nine million witches. Now it's twenty million. Inflation is showing up everywhere. Except in MY takehome pay.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]kellyannie
2008-01-30 05:20 am UTC (link)
Twenty MILLION? That's a lot of pagans. Besides that, 800 years after the church started, the "civilized" world was war-torn and... um ... there were not enough PEOPLE to make 20,000,000 pagans.

Kthnx.

You're definitely right, though: Any mention of TEH BURNING TYMZ is automatically lose-tastic.

(Reply to this)


[info]winterlion
2008-01-30 05:37 pm UTC (link)
I nominate this to be in the lj group description, attributed to you of course :)

Right on!

(Reply to this)

Just loves for you!
[info]moon_ferret
2008-01-30 07:47 pm UTC (link)
Cooler burning times macro

(Reply to this)


[info]dolmena
2008-02-04 04:27 am UTC (link)
I have no relevant commentary on the law (a newborn has apparently sucked away my brain) but "I'm in the mood to be scathed" seems eminently quotable.

(Reply to this)

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