Lately I've been wondering about the existence of Pagan Community Centers. Meaning a physical space that contains resources for the pagan community at large. (ie halls/rooms for rental, space to host classes, resource library and general meeting space.) After sniffing around on the interwebs it looks like this idea has been tried by multiple groups, but also seems to have failed resoundingly.

The only thing close seems to be the Aquarian Tabernacle Church in WA.

Anyone have personal experiences or examples of such an attempt (successful or otherwise)?

Also thoughts on whether you all, as individuals, would take advantage of such a resource? There have been multiple discussions on here about the worth or even existence of "pagan community"/building so I'm curious.

They didn't like me calling them racists. Or racist apologetics. Sorry guys, I'm afraid I'm no longer on that forum. Oh I iz so sad.

Oh wait, other than that I'm sorry you guys wasted your time on finding me such lovely examples to throw in their faces put in front of them, I'm not really.

I'm having a very frustrating discussion about Islam on a Pagan/spiritual (Dutch language) forum.

I'm having a very frustrating experience because so-called Pagan/spiritual people are spouting racist nonsense about adherents to Islam based on the few violent followers of Islam that they see paraded in front of them on the telly day by day.

I've been googling my little arse off to find a real life, still active either violent/terroristic as fuck Pagan and/or spiritualist, just to make some comparisons that hopefully they'll understand.

Yes, I'm still hoping I can make these people understand that the part is not the same as the whole.

I'm not having a lot of luck finding someone I can put in front of them and say "this is so-and-so. He's a violent pagan/spiritualist who has done a, b an c. Therefore all pagans/spiritualists are violent terrorists who should be shot. How do you like them cookies?"

I know, I know, pissing against the wind in a storm on a flood plain after the dyke has already burst. But still.

P.S.: white example would be best, so they can't go "ah but s/he's [insert ethnicity], so what do you expect!"

I'm not even sure I have posting access anymore, but in the event that I do, I believe this is the only group that can help me. I am sure I am not the only person to ever experience this problem, and you all are really the only people I can trust to give me an answer that isn't just, "Love and light and burn this color candle to banish negativity." I think this person has done me real psychological harm, and I want to get your opinions.

( Cut for an incredibly TL;DR story. I thought the back story might be a bit important, but I didn't know how much to include. )

Are there support resources for people who go through something like this? Self-help books? Is there a name for this?I cannot be alone. Someone else has to have had this kind of experience. I've been in the Pagan community long enough now to know that there are some very unhealthy individuals running around, preying on people in exactly the same way, for various reasons. My question is, what do I do now? I feel like if I went to a shrink, they would think I was some crazy, brainwashed cult victim. I can't talk to my friends about it, because, while they had their own bad experiences with Kay, none of them seem to understand how deeply she burrowed into my faith-life.

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me. Again, I feel like this is the only group where serious Pagans are listening, and not just waiting to tell me what essential oil to dab on my pulse points to make the sad go away.

I'm posting this here and nowhere else because this was the only pagan space I've seen this topic taken seriously and actually discussed and not dismissed out of hand. Anyone can TRY to post this elsewhere if they want. Good luck with that.

http://www.suppressedhistories.net/articles/respect.html

I hope someone here can help or point me in the right direction.

I have a cousin in Italy who translates texts from English into Italian for a living. She has hit a snag concerning a passage that refers to a plant called "Yemonja root" which is used in a love potion. Research on Yemonja/Yemaya has not given much information about a plant that bears her name, though there was one passage that referred to boneset as Yemaya's plant -- something protective and cleansing:

"Rompe Saraguay - Yemonja Plant - (per my Padrino in Ifa) this is Bitterbush, Boneset, Florida Keys Thoroughwort
Scientific Name: Eupatorium Odor Afum, Koanophyllon Villon Sum" (from here:http://orisha.tribe.net/thread/587dd0a2-dbe9-40d8-b265-958f804b8f38)

Could this be "Yemonja Root"? I've been Googling, and have come up with vague references to dandelion root being used for divination with Yemaya. Any insight -- and especially good references -- would be appreciated! I asked her to send me the whole passage for some context, and if she does, I will post it here as well.

TIA!

There's an upcoming article going to be published in the Journal of Anthropological Archaeology by Christine VanPool called "The signs of the sacred: Identifying shamans using archaeological evidence." I've read the corrected proofs; the basic idea seems to confirm a recent trend toward recognizing that shamans and priests aren't quite so separate as they've been treated by archaeology in the past, that the reality is more a spectrum between the two positions. To determine a place on that spectrum, the anthropologist and archaeologist need to consider whether a practitioner of magic observes seasonal cycles or makes astronomical observations, focuses upon small fetishes or creates large effigies, uses iconography or writing (to name a few of the author's examples).

I don't have a huge amount of experience with the southwest Amerindian cultures she uses as case studies, but the actual conclusion seemed pretty intuitive to me. My own practice seems to be a bit more like shamanism than priesthood, according to these criteria. With which of these terms do you identify, and by what criteria? Do you think the same criteria would be applicable to cultures outside the American southwest?

For the past several years I've been trying to create some kind of focus figure for ritual, and I've felt the need to do it myself. I've encountered in my graduate study of Viking archaeology several artefacts of the type I'd like to create (carved heads/faces at the top of a pole, like those described by Ibn Fadlan [pgh 85 here]), so I do know what I want. I seem to keep "getting it wrong," however.

Every couple years I've felt that it's time to try again. I find a piece of wood that feels right, I try to let the wood become what it wants as I carve, do it in the proper mindset, imbue it with intent, consecrate it...and it has always still felt pretty "dead" to me.

Those of you who have created your own ritual foci: what has worked for you to get it to feel right? Is it a particular kind of process? Is it the intent? Did you need for it to be a big, formal process? Did it happen quietly?

Alternatively, does one just have to be the right sort of person for a focus to be a good addition to one's ritual practice?

I apologize for the lack of explicitly pagan context in this. It's topical for me, personally: When I dance, it is always spiritual. Others may disagree, and if our moderators decide this is not appropriate here, I already have a copy of it. ;-)

Some disclosure about intent: During chasingtides' recent thread, I had the thought that "cultural" is a problematic usage in its context, and that "spiritual appropriation" might be less problematic. The key -- and problem aspect that will never go away -- is that culture and religion can be and often are sub- or super-sets of each other. I submit that as the reason why our discussion around appropriation and paganism will never find resolution... but I also see that as a Good Thing, because we really need to keep talking to each other, no further qualifiers implied or desired. :-)

( A personal experience and perspective on cultural appropriation from both sides. )

Edit: I finally figured out what I did wrong the first time I tried to tag this post.

When does learning about another culture and worshiping the gods of another culture/working the magical framework of another culture become culture appropriation? Where is that line drawn?

I am thinking less of my worship practices, but recently when discussing my magical framework, a person told me that I was appropriating hoodoo. While I do work in a root magic frame work, it's most because, for me, it's accessible, intuitive, and works for me (and, considering where I live, I can pick up the makings of a simple bag or an uncrossing in the grocery store in the same aisle where I pick up my toothpaste). While I don't believe that I'm appropriating it, I am curious where people think the line is drawn.

What's up with WitchVox? I haven't checked there in a few months, and now the site looks to be gone? I don't frequent any other groups, so if it's old news, please educate.

Or rather, goddesses. I wouldn’t bother posting this if it wasn’t such a rare and rather puzzling occurrence for me.

Last night I dreamed that I was visited by two goddesses while I was out at a restaurant sketching(I do that frequently when I’m awake but goddesses have never shown up previously). The two were clearly sisters, possibly twins, with rather sharp, severe, but still beautiful features. They never identified themselves, but I got the feeling that they were Day and Night. This might have something to do with the fact that one had golden skin and (shortish) blonde hair, and the other had extremely pale skin and dark hair, and both were accordingly dressed. I believe, but am not positive that one or both of them were smoking. (a cigarette, not personally)

They didn’t stay long, and the message was pretty blunt. They thought I was selfish, and doing a sucky job as a human being They didn’t explicitly say I needed to shape up or anything, just… that I sucked. And then they were gone.

Now, my question is this, do they match up with the descriptions of any goddesses anyone knows of? I’m Norse pagan, and I don’t have an image of them that immediately comes to mind.

I ask because if it was any sort of divine experience, I’d kind of like to initiate more contact, if only to do a quick ritual and say ‘sorry I suck so much’.

I'm noticing more and more that I'm almost ALWAYS tired.  I talked to my doctor about it during my last physical, and he said I was in perfect health after my bloodwork came back in.  His answer was "get more sleep".  Even when I get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep a night, I still feel like I need a nap and could easily sleep several more hours during the day.  All the mundane reasons are in line - I barely drink caffiene, so no spikes and crashes.  (Occasionally a cup of iced green tea, maybe a soda once a month.)  I work out regularly and am in excellent physical shape, I eat a balanced and healthy diet of home-prepared meals.  I'm running out of ideas, but I'm tired of being tired.

So I'm looking at less-mundane causes for my fatigue, as well as ideas on how to correct it.  I've been keeping a tin of Altoids in my car, because the peppermint seems to wake me up for a bit when I bite into them.  It's prevented me having to pull over and take a nap when driving home from work.  At the suggestion of a friend, I tried to "anchor" a memory of being awake and alert to the tin to encourage a well-rested and mentally-acute resonance, but that's been the extent of my efforts so far.

Anyone here have any ideas?  I'm just hoping to brainstorm with the hivemind, here.  :)

(x-posted from technopaganism)

So, I'm tasked with starting a proper journal.  As my personal LJ would attest, this isn't something I'm fantastic at maintaining on a regular basis, but it's pretty central to a regular practice and so I persevere.  I was looking for a notebook with little enthusiasm, since I despise writing longhand and always forget the book when I'd like to have it handy.  Finally, I decided I should just keep my journal online, with the rest of my digital life.  Here is my idea, thusfar:

- Make a password-protected blog.  Create an RSS feed for that blog, so that even when I don't have internet access, I can refer to my latest notes through my BlackBerry.  Doodles, sigils, or notes that aren't well handled by typed text can be uploaded as needed, and it gives me the flexibility to include, say, a Flash sigil should I create one.

What do y'all think?  I'm certain this is an idea that's been done before, and I'm curious how you've executed it better, or what issues you've run into with the idea.  Perhaps the name of the blog and the password could even form a mantra, to encourage an analytical state of mind whenever I take notes.  Thoughts?

I read this in one of the free local rags today, and since I saw it linked on the Cannock Chase Council site too, I figured I'd throw it up for discussion in here.

( Read more... )

Some links to Castle Ring on-line, so you can have a nose before making up your mind.

roman-britain.org - WikiP - more roman-britain.org - pegasusarchive - staffspasttrack.org.uk - themodernantiquarian - geograph.org.uk - megalithic.co.uk - panoramio

So, should it be kept clear, or should we let the trees take hold again? Your thoughts?

Xposted

I consider myself to be a Pagan, but not a Witch nor a Wiccan. I do not practice merely because I do not feel that I am knowledgeable enough to safely attempt a ritual or spell. I have been reading books on Goddess myths/beliefs as well as books on various world religions and mythologies across Europe. I am knowledgeable of Wiccan/Witchcraft practices and beliefs, as well as the history between the two. Though, I will admit that I am still a bit confused as to the distinct differences between Witchcraft and Wicca when it comes down to the practices and beliefs.(?) I've been reading/learing for over 10 years now.
For a list of the books I've been reading: http://elven-sphinx.livejournal.com/81513.html#cutid1

So, with all of that said...I have heard of many people, both online, on tv, and in books, who have renounced Wicca/Witchcraft due to scary/negative experiences. I have not heard these experiences described in detail, only that there had been negative/scary experiences.
-I admit curiosity for the details of these experiences.

I have had an interest in ghosts since I was a very young teen and possibly even pre-teen. I like to watch "Hauntings" on the Discovery channel. A recent episode tells of this mother who had had an interest in Wicca and the Occult for many years. She ends up moving into a haunted home and within a couple of years promptly moves out. The next house she moves into has a pentagram permanently carved/painted into/on to the floor of one of the rooms. Well, over the course of the next 7 years she proceeds to delve heavily into Wicca and practices ritual and spell-work during this time with no incident. At the end of this 7 years her Christian son returns home from the military. That's when negative things start happening. Sprites, demon-like figures, even a possible double of herself shows itself. Prior to these negative happenings, she'd been experiencing positive changes in her life. After these negative experiences she quits practicing Wicca, claiming that she doesn't understand what she is doing, afterall. During her last ritual, wherein she was devoting herself to Isis, she was attacked by black shadow-like things and Sprites. She destroyed her Isis statue and the altar, in an attempt to close any possible gateways which may have opened, and it seemed to do the trick.
Episode title: "Spellbound"

Now, this show is all about re-enacting true-events. So, I'm sure that in the midst of these dramatizations some details are going to be forgotten or even omitted,unfortunately.
-In the dramatization of this particular episode, I didn't see any evidence or heard any mention of her 'first' cleansing the room/house, or of a protective circle being erected before her ritual/spell work or anything of that sort. Not saying that she didn't, only that it wasn't mentioned/shown.

So, I'm curious...these negative experiences would generally only happen if you are doing something wrong, correct? If you aren't careful during your preparation of, or during the ritual/spell work, or the closing-of...that could lead to issues of unwanted visitors/energy, etc...right?

I'm lost though...this woman had been 'seemingly' successfully practicing for 7 years with no problems and then all of a sudden, she starts having problems. Why would that happen?

Forgive me if my post seems disjointed, I'm sick and feel like I have a head full of wet cotton...but I'm seriously curious about this issue and would really appreciate any and all feedback and/or personal accounts/experiences anyone feels up to sharing.

What could these people be doing wrong that would scare them so badly that they'd immediately quit their practice only to flee straight to the Church, you know?

Thanks!
~Blessed Be! )O( ~

X-posted

no-nonsense sense.

Sigh.

A few years ago I was sitting in the garden in our house in Tilburg when 3 crows flew overhead, cawing. I remarked to Myrddyn "It's a good thing I'm not superstitious, otherwise I'd be concerned right now".

The next day we heard that my brother's daughter had died in utero and would be stillborn.

Almost a month later, Myrddyn and I were driving out of Tilburg and as we crossed the railway line there were hundreds or maybe even thousands of corvids sitting on the overhead lines. I remarked to Myrddyn "It's a good thing I'm still not superstitious, or I'd be really really worried now".

The next day was 11 September 2001.

Seeing as our home is also home to a family of jackdaws, I've not paid corvids too much mind. If they live around you and are part of you daily life, not everything they do is a symbol.

But when I walked the Vicar this morning, 2 crows flew across my path, cawing, about half a meter in front of me, I could feel the air displacement of their wings.

Let's just say I'm a bit jittery right now, so arse kickings and head slappings welcome.

ETA: ok, decidedly less jittery now, as 2 corvids are good. And (don't laugh) I just remembered that on Sunday I had a very itchy hand and remarked to Myrddyn that in Dutch folklore that means you will be receiving money soon.

ETA2: I'm going with the 2 for joy bit, as yesterday late afternoon we had the news that the lump on our Vicar was just a fatty lump and no danger to his health. Seeing as we have only recently found out that his true age is 5 years older than they told us when we got him and he has old dog health problems, this was a great relief.

Has anyone here ever written a memorial service before? Not a specifically traditional/heathen/religious one, but a non-denominational one for public attendance?

My friend took his life last Thursday, and his wife (a member of my Clan) asked me to perform the service. It's my first.

I'm confident I can do it, but would love some input on structure and/or ideas for content. I've googled some, and have ideas, but would love input of the BTDT variety.

So, I'm reading this article about How an English church is removing a scary crucifix that "was scaring local children and deterring worshippers" because it was "a horrifying depiction of pain and suffering".

My first thought was, Well duh.  It's a bloody crucifix.  It's a dead man on a stick.  What did you expect?

Later on, the vicar explains:

"It wasn't a suitable image for the outside of a church wanting to welcome worshipers. In fact, it was a real put-off.

"We're all about hope, encouragement and the joy of the Christian faith. We want to communicate good news, not bad news, so we need a more uplifting and inspiring symbol than execution on a cross."

What struck me then was the selective appreciation of this approach to the religion.  How can one have the resurrection without the crucifixion?  Mind you, I've often wondered about the focus on the passion itself rather than the promise of salvation it bought, but still.  It's rather like the short-sighted habit of denying the bad in life, and focusing exclusively upon the good, as if that somehow makes the bad go away.  Pollyanna spirituality.

Lest anyone think I'm particularly down on the Christians, let me say that I've seen much the same thing in Paganism.  There is the classic bowdlerization of Kali as a gentle grandmother, or extolling the spiritual and cultural virtues of any given ancient people while ignoring bloody wars, sexual oppression, and slavery.

It occurs to me that, if we Pagans are to go on about how our practices are about balance, and embracing all of life, should we not then adore our ugly icons as well as our glorious?  The gods govern the bad and painful aspects of life as much as the good.  To deny the aspects of the gods that scare us or (let's be honest) shame us as "enlightened, civilized people" is to ignore the bad parts of life.  Whistling past the graveyard.

I remember a Christian friend of mine, who once explained that what got her through her abuse was the knowledge that Christ was with her through her pain, that He had known as much, and truly understood what she was going through.  Such supporting faith would be impossible without embracing the scary part of the myth, no?

Life is not always pretty.  Neither are the gods, our gods or their God.  Gods who only show their faces in the good times are not worth our worship.  And worshipers who can only look upon beautiful gods aren't worth gods at all.

Potential SRW-bashing post.

After seeing a few flame-ish threads centered around the question "so what's wrong with SRW anyway?" (a question I DO NOT need answered, and while I can understand that sometimes people can't help themselves from debating it, I'd prefer it weren't the main topic here), I want to address one of the points sometimes brought up in those discussions. It goes something like this:

"Well, when SRW wrote Broomstick, there weren't a lot of Pagan/Wiccan books available, so it's okay to start with."

I disagree. I remember reading plenty of Pagan & Wiccan books before I'd ever heard of Ravenwolf. I remember researching plenty of occult lore, too. But as I try to sort out the titles, they blur in my head. So I'm asking for help:

To Ride A Silver Broomstick was published in 1993, as far as I've been able to find out. What books were published before then (dates would be nice, + notes if they were in print or not), and could reasonably have been used as Pagan/Wiccan/Witchcraft resources for beginner? (I do know that P/W/W are not the same--but a lot of beginners don't, and are likely to pick up anything that seems remotely similar.)

( Books I remember, a not-very detailed list )

So I'm a bit of a cheapskate when figuring out holiday gifts for all the people here at NFP, but I do hope that there are some folks who will enjoy this.

Back about a year or two ago, there was a documentary made about Hoopeston, IL and the interestingness with the Correllian folk. Instead of selling the DVD, the producer has decided to make it available for watching online for free. The documentary is pretty well done, and the topic material makes for a very....interesting....watch.

http://www.synydyne.com/projects/hoopeston/watch/

I have here a treat for all of you. It's Carlos Castaneda's magical sabretooth tiger pass as practiced by Mesoamerican shamans for hundreds of years. Staretube has all 13 videos in the series.

 As a follow up to my last post--

Thank you all so much!  I remembered the interest in the topic last time someone brought it up, but I didn't expect such an enthusiastic response to this request too.  

Many of you had some really fascinating stories or insights.  Some of you even expressed a willingness to be quoted or interviewed.  If you are interested in either, would you mind emailing the director of the podcast at expodcast@gmail.com ?  There were too many response for us to respond to all of them.

Thank you all again,
Researcher

Some non-fluffy pagan friends of mine are thinking about making a pagan podcast, mostly because they've found that the ones they've heard suck (including the "award winning" ones).   At some point, we were bitching about rude pagans, and I relayed to them the thread that was on this community. With that in mind, we're thinking of doing a podcast on etiquette in the pagan community and what is should be.

Here's where the help part comes in--Do any of you have any stories or advice you'd like to share?  This can be anything from horror stories of bad behavior, common experiences of rudeness that most pagans seem to engage in, etc.  We're also looking for potential interviewees.  This is a longer term project, and probably won't see the light of day until after the holidays, but I thought I'd start asking now.  It should be noted that you can have as much or as little anonymity as you like.  

Also, even if you don't want it used on the podcast (and Scout's honor I won't if you say not to), I'm curious about what kinds of pagan etiquette horror stories the group has.  Most of you have far more experience in paganism as a subculture than I do. 

Pagans, especiallly Wiccans, get a variety of responses when they tell people about their religion. While many of them are honestly curious and no harm is intended, some are openly hostile... and plenty more are just actively clueless, questions or comments that would never be directed at a religion that didn't have a history of being suppressed or ignored or ridiculed. This bingo card is designed around Wicca and other witchcraft religions--but these are the same questions/comments that get thrown at other Pagans, some of whom get the double fun of explaining, "No, Wicca isn't like that" and "... but it doesn't matter because I'm not Wiccan."

And while, in many areas, these responses are nowhere near as hostile or rudely ignorant as some of the other privilege-based responses to other situations (race, disability, poverty, etc.), they are... consistently annoying. Consistent enough that any Pagan who does public outreach of any sort has a set of canned responses for each of these, enough that we're prone to disregarding these as serious questions or comments. Enough that many of us have wound up snarling at unsuspecting co-workers or acquaintances who thought they were being polite.

I decided to put together a set of these in a Bingo card... let me know what you think. Could be reformatted into a printable card, and carried around for media interviews or family get-togethers.

( Bingo Card under a cut-tag 'cos it's large-ish )