FIVER ([info]sushi_kitten) wrote in [info]no_lj_ads,
@ 2008-03-23 14:15:00
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Entry tags:ads and paid accounts, sponsored styles

Logged in paid users seeing sponsored ads
I just changed my journal's theme and saw this for the first time, and it really pissed me off. When paid users go to edit their journal's themes, there they are, right on the very first page, sponsored themes, AKA ADS. I know someone already posted about this here, but I come bearing screen caps, which I've posted behind the cut:

Logged in paid users see ads: Screen cap 1
Logged in paid users see ads: Screen cap 1
Logged in paid users see ads Screen cap 2
Logged in paid users see ads Screen cap 2



Is there something we can do about this? I know when they came out with sponsored v-gifts there was an uproar until they let paid users opt out of them but that was under 6-Apart. (that sponsored contend should, from the beginning, be DEFAULT OPT OUT for paid users is a rant for another post) Will SUP honor giving paid users opt outs if we remind them we should have it?

What happened to you pay, you see no ads? This really disgusts me.

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[info]uniquewonders
2008-03-23 07:36 pm UTC (link)
I don't get why these are featured when we can see them in the Sponsored category. If I want to see these, I know where to click. *shakes head*

Will SUP honor giving paid users opt outs if we remind them we should have it?

I sincerely doubt it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 07:57 pm UTC (link)
Right, if people *want* to see them, there's nothing stopping them. But for those of us who DONT want to see ... we're SOL.

Will SUP honor giving paid users opt outs if we remind them we should have it?

I sincerely doubt it.

Sadly I think this is the case.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]scorchy96
2008-03-23 07:43 pm UTC (link)
That's why I don't paid for lj anymore :/ There's no point to it because you still see crap like that. Sorry guys

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 08:05 pm UTC (link)
ugh, I didn't want to pay anymore, but then the auto payment thing caught me off guard. As soon as my paid time runs out tho, that's it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]lisa_marli
2008-03-23 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Featured from what I can gather are recent popular schemes. This is actually what people want to use, so there they are. They are schemes that are readily available to those who are using the Plus accounts so they get used a lot.
We, who pay for the privilege, can just go passed them to the themes we want to use. Thus Not putting the Ad-dled themes on our pages.
I think this belongs in the Big Upset over Little Problem complaint.
PS If I want to blow up, there is the fact that I Pay AT&T for a High Speed internet connection for that they give me a Web Mail system through Yahoo. They Promised it would be ad free and guess what I have now - Yep, Ads. Not just minor ads mixed in with everything, but full Flash Ads of the annoying kind on my web mail pages. Now That's Maddening.
This is just a Let's Move Along type problem.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 07:55 pm UTC (link)
um wow, are you sure you're in the right place? this here is [info]no_lj_ads where we DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY ADS on lj. Not "let's scroll past the ads" but "we PAID to not see ANY ads, so we'd better fucking NOT SEE ANY ADS"

An ad is an ad is an ad. I don't care if they're small, I don't care if they're popular with Plus users. If it's an ad, I shouldn't see it when I'm logged in to LJ.

Yes these ads are small and fairly unobtrusive, but given that we've had to make a BIG FUCKING DEAL out of it to get LJ to change every single time they have foisted ads on paid users I'm gonna make a deal out of it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]unsee1ie, 2008-03-23 08:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 11:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2008-03-23 09:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 10:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2008-03-23 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-24 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-23 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 11:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-23 11:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-24 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 12:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-24 12:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 01:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-24 01:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 01:28 am UTC

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 07:55 pm UTC (link)
why was this comment screened?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2008-03-23 09:33 pm UTC

[info]matgb
2008-03-23 08:05 pm UTC (link)
I agree. @OP comment was screened because non member comments are screened.

Yes, this is no LJ ads, but we're a constructive comms. In addition, a distinction is made between "sponsored content" and actual "adverts". The latter is just a banner selling you something, the former is something you have the option of using that happens to contain ads to a product you may want to endorse and/or find cool.

I have no problem seeing sponsored stuff in lists of "most popular" if it genuinely is most popular, because that means users are choosing it—we pay to not see banner adverts and have adverts plastered over our journal. Other sponsored content isn't hidden from us, but will show up as normal in popular lists if it's popular.

Given the recent fuss about interest censorship, if this is truly "most popular recently selected" then I'd personally object if they censored that list to remove stuff from it, if that's what users are choosing, then so be it. It's a thumbnail preview clearly labelled. It itself doesn't link to a product you can buy nor install any tracking cookies.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-23 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]matgb, 2008-03-23 09:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]av8rmike, 2008-03-23 08:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elfwreck, 2008-03-24 12:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 12:48 am UTC

[info]schnee
2008-03-23 09:10 pm UTC (link)
Seconded.

There's a big difference between showing ads to paid/perm users on purpose and sponsored themes just *happening* to appear in a list of favourite themes because they're - well - favourite.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-23 09:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2008-03-23 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-23 10:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janinedog, 2008-03-24 06:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2008-03-24 07:12 am UTC

[info]av8rmike
2008-03-23 08:37 pm UTC (link)
Sponsored V-gifts was different. Until the change was made, you couldn't control who sent you a gift (unless you opted out of all gifts, I guess). Changing your theme isn't involuntary like that, you don't have to use the sponsored styles. The customization area is set up so that you view themes by account level; Paid users can see all styles, so they even see the Sponsored ones. These things have been around for almost a year, and the bigger uproar seemed to be about the embedded web bugs, not the fact that they weren't hidden from Paid users.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 09:09 pm UTC (link)
well I haven't changed my journal's theme in a long time, so I didn't know about them.

as far as I remember, the sponsored v-gift thing was about paid users not having to see them at all, even when buying v-gifts. I don't know if they're gone now or something, but when I go look at the "buy v-gifts" page, I don't see any.

as for sponsored themes, if paid users *want* to see them, they can click on the "sponsored" link in the themes list. There's no reason for them to be out on the main page where I *have* to look at them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]av8rmike, 2008-03-23 09:32 pm UTC

[info]kiya71677
2008-03-23 09:30 pm UTC (link)
It is my understanding that paid/perm users can only opt out of receiving sponsored v-gifts, not out of seeing them altogether (such as on a friend's profile or with all of the other vgifts). I would prefer not to see sponsored content as well, but I imagine that the views for customization and the gift shop are applied sitewide regardless of account status.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 11:33 pm UTC (link)
they do multiple versions of the home page, plus users pages etc, they have all kinds of ad free versions of pages for paid users. I don't see why it would be any different to have a sponsored free "customize" page or "v-gifts shop" page

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]kiya71677, 2008-03-24 12:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 12:28 am UTC

[info]theclamsman
2008-03-23 09:54 pm UTC (link)

The Russians own LJ now. They really don't give a crap what the rest of the world thinks, or what longtime users think (or even what Brad thinks). They're out to make money on their "investment". It's worse than when 6Ahole was in control. Haven't seen the LJ news lately?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 10:50 pm UTC (link)
I know, but I have a while until my paid time runs out, so I'd like to stay as ad free as possible til then.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]kirkemen
2008-03-26 09:26 am UTC (link)
Actually we Russians do "give a crap"... But there is a certain business model, labelled "business po-piterski" that has been adopted by some companies like SUP. The problem with Russians is that we as customers are not yet used to the "customer is always right" business model. Thus we rarely display an outrage at the sight of "business po-piterski" attitude. What I must say - "business po-piterski" is dying out despite the tolerance. The situation like the one with SUP is quite rare nowaday. Most our companies are very user-friendly (though yet clumsy at it sometimes).

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]tallblue
2008-03-28 08:03 pm UTC (link)
I agree! I am at the point of giving up.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]the_sweet
2008-03-23 10:14 pm UTC (link)
As people have previously mentioned, there are some of us which have different definitions of "ads" and what LJ/SUP is allowed to do in regards to displaying sponsored/"advertising" content to us paid users.

Personally, I don't consider sponsored themes to be ads. They're themes. They happen to have some sort of link back to the sponsor's site or whatnot, but how is that any different from taking a layout from a layouts community and having a link back to the original creator's journal or website?

I used a Havianas layout for a long time because I liked the way it looked-- it had nothing to do with being sponsored or having a link to their website or whatever. I didn't consider it an ad, because to me, it "prettified" my journal. When I got sick of how it looked (and not because of a link back to the Havianas website), I changed it.

Would you feel better having a Plus user telling you "I see themes that you don't, nyah nyah!"? In the end, YOU have the option to choose the layout you use, so it's hardly the case that these sponsored layouts are intrusive. At least they give you the option, rather than assuming that, as a paid user, you wouldn't want to see ANY sponsored layouts, no matter how cool they may look. Most people don't go to their customize page on a daily basis. Further, the HP-sponsored ones are *new* so of course they're featured.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-23 10:49 pm UTC (link)
They happen to have some sort of link back to the sponsor's site or whatnot, but how is that any different from taking a layout from a layouts community and having a link back to the original creator's journal or website?

Because with a link to a layout maker they just wants credit for what they made, they're not trying to SELL anything. Now in the sponsored themes, HP isn't trying to sell anything *directly* but they're trying to build up name recognition and positive associations with their brand, why? ... SO THEY CAN SELL MORE STUFF. No the sponsored themes are not as obtrusive as giant flashing popups that say "BUY OUR PRODUCT!" but they are STILL ADVERTISING. And I paid for my LJ account in large part because I DO NOT WANT to see advertising. Of ANY TYPE. NO matter how small or cool looking it is. And we were promised that paid users would NEVER have to see ANY ADS- because we had ALREADY PAID. Making paid users see ads is like making us pay TWICE. HELL NO.

Would you feel better having a Plus user telling you "I see themes that you don't, nyah nyah!"? In the end, YOU have the option to choose the layout you use, so it's hardly the case that these sponsored layouts are intrusive. At least they give you the option, rather than assuming that, as a paid user, you wouldn't want to see ANY sponsored layouts, no matter how cool they may look.

That's why on the customize page in the list of theme types, there's a link to a "Sponsored" category. If a paid member *wants* to use the sponsored themes, they can click that link.

Further, the HP-sponsored ones are *new* so of course they're featured.

If they want to feature them to Plus users, I have no problem with that. But NOT ON MY FUCKING PAID ACCOUNT. It is not a big deal for LJ to have 2 different "Customize" pages, one for paid, and one for not paid. They already have 2 different home pages, one for paid, and one for not paid. They have 2 versions of lots of pages SO PAID USERS DONT HAVE TO SEE ADS. We don't see sponsored communities on the front page either, because SPONSORED CONTENT IS ADS.


Ok, I'm going to stop beating a dead horse. I think I've made my point. This just really pisses me off though because they take our money and then they fuck with us. And yes, I know the solution is to just not give them more money, and I'm going to do that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]component, 2008-03-25 07:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pplfichi, 2008-03-31 03:43 pm UTC

[info]uniquewonders
2008-03-23 10:56 pm UTC (link)
Personally, I don't consider sponsored themes to be ads. They're themes. They happen to have some sort of link back to the sponsor's site or whatnot, but how is that any different from taking a layout from a layouts community and having a link back to the original creator's journal or website?

Then I would like them to look exactly like other Expressive layouts: no brand name in the header but just a link to the creator in its usual place and no doubleclick.net tracking crap. It would look less like an ad to me. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]the_sweet, 2008-03-23 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-23 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sweet, 2008-03-23 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sweet, 2008-03-24 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2008-03-24 02:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sweet, 2008-03-24 05:01 am UTC

[info]hematopoetic
2008-03-23 11:52 pm UTC (link)
I think it went out the window with [info]brad's statement, "THERE WILL NEVER BE ADS ON LJ" of yore.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]sushi_kitten
2008-03-24 12:30 am UTC (link)
This is probably true.

It should be obvious we're fighting a losing fight, but I think many of us have made our homes here on LJ and we didn't want to have to give that up.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]elfwreck
2008-03-24 12:18 am UTC (link)
It'll take a lawsuit for fraud to get them to change. Paid & Perm users will have to file suit (maybe a class action suit) to point out that they were promised not seeing ads when logged in, and demanding a refund. Perm users should demand a full refund, not a prorated share based on a certain dollar value per year.

It's illegal to promise a service and then change the terms of the service. It's fraud to say "well, we offered you X, but now we're giving you X-1." Not even with the excuse, "we bought the service from someone else; we're changing the terms of the Paid accounts."

Nothing less than legal action is going to have any effect.

(Reply to this)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]sushi_kitten, 2008-03-24 12:31 am UTC

[info]janinedog
2008-03-24 06:39 am UTC (link)
Not that this necessarily makes things any better for you, but just to clarify, this has nothing to do with SUP--the decisions for how sponsored themes would show up in the new customize area were made by Six Apart. Also, things were very similar in the old customize area too--Paid users saw the sponsored themes in the drop-down mixed in with the rest of the themes (in alphabetical order), while Basic/Plus users saw them at the top of the list (special placement).

So really, the only thing that's new here is that you're seeing sponsored themes in the new customize area for the first time. How and where Paid users see them hasn't changed since sponsored themes first came about a long time ago.

(Reply to this)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2008-03-24 11:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janinedog, 2008-03-24 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sukeban, 2008-03-24 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyzoole, 2008-04-01 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janinedog, 2008-04-01 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyzoole, 2008-04-01 03:21 pm UTC

[info]oconel
2008-03-26 08:25 am UTC (link)
I filed a support request about it and this is the answer I got:

"No, this is not a bug. As a paid user, all layouts are visible to you in the customize journal area, even sponsored ones. However, unlike with Plus users, these layouts are not featured at the front of the list or highlighted, they are simply mixed in with the other layouts for paid users."

So, according to LJ ads are ok if they're mixed with non-ad stuff...

(Reply to this)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-30 12:01 am UTC

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