isaiah ([info]batteur) wrote in [info]montreal,
@ 2006-09-16 14:49:00
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Montréalais, voici un article du Globe and Mail qu'un ami vient de m'envoyer. J'en suis fou furieux et j'espère que vous en serez aussi ! Eh oui, la fusillade au collège Dawson cette semaine est la faute de la société québécoise d'après Jan Wong ! Incroyable, mais vrai. Pour la personne qui cherchait un journal à lire, je vous conseille fortement d'éviter le papier-toilette qui qu'est le Globe and Mail. Madame Wong décrit notre société comme raciste et insulte notre ville en deuil. Quelle honte !

Montréalers, here is an article from the Globe and Mail that a friend just sent me. I'm furious and I hope you will be, also. You see, Jan Wong manages to blame Québec society for the shooting at Dawson this week. Incredible, but true. For the person who was looking for a newspaper to read, I highly recommend that you avoid the toilet paper that is the Globe and Mail. Madame Wong says our society is racist and insults our city during its mourning. For shame!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060915.wxshooting-main16/EmailBNStory/National/home

What many outsiders don't realize is how alienating the decades-long linguistic struggle has been in the once-cosmopolitan city. It hasn't just taken a toll on long-time anglophones, it's affected immigrants, too. To be sure, the shootings in all three cases were carried out by mentally disturbed individuals. But what is also true is that in all three cases, the perpetrator was not pure laine, the argot for a “pure” francophone. Elsewhere, to talk of racial “purity” is repugnant. Not in Quebec.


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[info]vampire_engel
2006-09-16 07:29 pm UTC (link)
This article pisses me off on so many levels I wouldn't even know where to begin.

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ohdarlingg
2006-09-16 07:32 pm UTC (link)
seriously. i have no words

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[info]fetternity
2006-09-16 08:29 pm UTC (link)
Well, I found some grounds on which to ethically assault her.
Read below:


"Dear Ms. Wong,

Your latest article, 'Get Under The Desk', without mincing words, quite frankly disgusted me. In the aftermath of such a tragedy, you seem to take for granted the yet-uncertain chronology of events and retell them with your own atypical undercurrent of intolerance towards anything relating to "pure laine Quebecer", as you so self-righteously use. As if the good people of Quebec were the only ones in the whole of our great Canada to shoot their own.

Should we remind you of four of our young and brave RCMP officers who were cold-bloodily laid low by bullets in Alberta last year? How about Karla Homolka, a media favorite? No, of course not; it brings more shock value (and potentially more sales) to tag the pure wool population of Montreal with your article, while everywhere else the media are pointing their collective fingers at a "gothic subculture" genre.

Your recent article is a pompous, self-important call for social discordance. I can only hope the callous tone of your article can be blamed on your journalist-like insensitivity rather than a planned action. No responsible, much less social, Montrealer would ever dare to so cold-heartedly assault the immense benefits reaped by the evolution of the language issues in this great city over the last 15 years.

Thank you so much for setting us back eighty-or-so years.

--
Christian Major,
Owner and Head Designer
Incarnation Alternative Wares

T.: 514.731.9104"



I'm amazed I could come up with anything beyond "you fucking, cum-dripping, racist zealot of a bitch".

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(no subject) - [info]vampire_engel, 2006-09-19 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-20 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-20 01:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keigan, 2006-09-20 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chevrotine, 2006-09-20 12:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:25 am UTC

[info]lola_joan
2006-09-16 07:42 pm UTC (link)
Jan Wong has a history of sensationlization, and less than accurate reporting... Notice the following excerpt: "In an on-line journal nine months earlier, he wrote that the day he planned to seek revenge would be grey. “A light drizzle will be starting up,” he wrote.
On Wednesday, it rained in Montreal." ...But the rain didn't start
until well after the shooting. She has no qualms about twisting the facts to make a better "story."

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[info]bitch_box
2006-09-16 07:42 pm UTC (link)
For security reasons — security of the equipment — that is, the computer lab had three vast windows that looked onto the hall. All 50 or so students hit the floor, everyone that is, except for a couple of students who continued working at their computers. Were they Asian?

???

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]samaxnthah, 2006-09-16 08:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyaan, 2006-09-17 03:41 pm UTC

[info]janetmweiss
2006-09-16 07:42 pm UTC (link)
If one was feeling alienated because one wasn't pure laine...why attack Dawson? I don't get it *blinks*

But at the same time, articles insulting [insert place name here] society right after a school shooting are pretty common. I'm sure most members of the community after, say, Columbine, thought "Tsk tsk. Of course it happened. The US is so [derogatory remark here]."

It's not the polite or sensitive thing to do, but everybody wants an excuse why the same thing could never happen in their city. Human nature, I guess.

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(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2006-09-16 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janetmweiss, 2006-09-17 07:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 02:51 pm UTC

harmlesskitty
2006-09-16 07:44 pm UTC (link)
Argh.

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[info]aquilla_rayne
2006-09-16 07:45 pm UTC (link)
At the same time, she's not so off the mark about racisme and alienation in montreal. as an ethnic-minority ex-montrealer, it's pretty difficult to have people assume that you don't belong because you are not quebecoise. It's true that the pure-laine idea still exists, maybe not as strongly in montreal, but mos. def outside of the city. I've heard more than once the sentiment that 'immigres' are diluting French and that they don't belong. There was an interview on CBC quite recently from a haitian woman talking about racial segregation in montreal and how it is unique to Montreal.

Jan Wong lived for four years as an ethnic minority Anglo in montreal. I don't think she's speaking out of pure sensationalism. Instead, I think she's voicing a sentiment that many many many people of colour feel in Montreal.

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(no subject) - ohdarlingg, 2006-09-16 07:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]weirdoradio, 2006-09-16 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-16 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 12:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 05:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stylistixs, 2006-09-17 06:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 07:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]samaxnthah, 2006-09-16 07:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]methexis, 2006-09-16 08:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-16 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]methexis, 2006-09-16 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 12:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]methexis, 2006-09-17 02:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-20 03:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vanessa_elle, 2006-09-21 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-21 08:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]siobhan63, 2006-09-16 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blueheron, 2006-09-16 09:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-16 10:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ultimategirl, 2006-09-16 11:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]samaxnthah, 2006-09-17 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-17 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arkenholtz, 2006-09-17 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 12:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-17 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-17 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 04:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquilla_rayne, 2006-09-17 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eeria, 2006-09-20 02:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eeria, 2006-09-20 02:11 pm UTC

[info]samaxnthah
2006-09-16 07:47 pm UTC (link)
Well, that's a new one.

This article is ridiculously offensive in every sense of the word. WHO let this go to press? Is this supposed to be satire? There are even grammatical errors.

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(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:29 am UTC

[info]methexis
2006-09-16 07:50 pm UTC (link)
It is obvious to me that no newspaper would have published this abortion of a sociological explanation if it wasn’t hoping to capitalize from the ensuing controversy. I therefore second Isaiah’s call for boycott. Most of the comments on the online article (which, sadly, few readers of the paper version will ever see) point out the ludicrousness of the piece.

Cordially,
J.

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(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:28 am UTC

[info]siobhan63
2006-09-16 08:41 pm UTC (link)
"For the person who was looking for a newspaper to read, I highly recommend that you avoid the toilet paper that is the Globe and Mail."

It's still, by far, the best paper in the country. One article by one columnist does not a paper make. Jan Wong does lots of "investigative" pieces that challenge people. One of her more recent pieces was based on her experience living on minimum wage as working as a cleaner for a month. It pissed off a lot of Globe readers who felt she was criticising them for hiring cleaning services.

People who simply react without asking themselves if maybe there's an iota of truth in what is being said aren't really doing themselves any favours.

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(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-16 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-17 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-17 02:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:30 am UTC

[info]morktuum
2006-09-16 10:32 pm UTC (link)
on a french news forum, a guy posted and i quote ( translated )

Me what return to me sick, it is that no person interviewed or almost can say more than two French words!!!
MIDNIGHT SUPPERS us before it is not too late! Ca would not surprise me that the individuals aimed at the institution because they are nauseated situation in Montreal

If it is the case, I answer: good cause, bad method… Is this normal that as many people does not live in English in Montreal? NOT! Is this normal that 70% of the immigrants do not learn French? NOT! This is normal that of the 30% which remain, Does Ottawa want to attract them outside Quebec? NOT!

What can one make to make change the situation? Not large thing… Because nowadays, Montreal it is their HOME! I live there and once on two in my district I am made be useful in English! TOO MUCH It TOO IS! LET US REACT BUT IN A WAY MORE BRILLIANT THAN TODAY BUT REACT!

here's my reply: ( sorry i did'nt translate it yet but i will if you want to ) criss un gars pete les plomps pis tire dans le tas et ces morrons ne pensent qu'a leur p'tite personne et a la "precieuse" langue l'opinion publique fait dure en criss c'est a vous autre de vous reveiller, il y a une victime innocente en plus des blesses, ca aurait ete toi, t'aurais tu en tete la langue ou le traffic??

et a ceux qui blame la musique metal et les jeux violents reveillez vous aussi, ca a aucun rapport. J'ai 30 ans, j'ecout la musique metal depuis l'age de 12 ans, j'ai deja eu les cheveux long ( maintenant chauve ), je suis habille par les surplus de l'armee, j'ai 2 piercings au visage et une ceinture de balles type mitraillette. j'avoue que j'ai des reaction et on m'etiquette a certains groupes dont je ne nommerai pas. habituellement je suis indifferent a ca car c'est comme je suis et je suis confortable comme ca que ca plaise ou non. mais la ca commence a pas mal m'agacer de lire et entendre ce genre d'association a ce qui c'est passe. a ceux que ca concerne, vous etes qui pour porter un jugement sur une personne ou un groupe en se basant sur ce qu'ils sont tandis que vous ne les connaissez pas?

je travaille, je suis fiancé a une americaine que j'adore... ca vous surprends??

...aux familles et proches des victimes de dawson... stay strong folks!!

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[info]morktuum
2006-09-16 10:36 pm UTC (link)
my reply was also to the media who point at the goth and metal community

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[info]rilms
2006-09-16 10:44 pm UTC (link)
Outside Montreal and Quebec City, Anglophones are not very well liked and not always tolarated. Not sure about Allophones, as I am not one and can not speek for them.

But, I disagree that the Montreal English community is like a small town. A lot of the West Island, Westmount are primairly english and english people do live in french parts of the city.

The Island isn't devided by The Main anymore, everyone lives everywhere.

And not all Anglophones know each other....|

Stupid woman....

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(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 03:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 04:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 05:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dzuunmod, 2006-09-21 04:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-21 08:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keigan, 2006-09-20 02:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-20 03:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keigan, 2006-09-20 03:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rilms, 2006-09-20 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-20 04:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keigan, 2006-09-20 04:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rilms, 2006-09-21 11:49 am UTC

[info]morktuum
2006-09-16 11:00 pm UTC (link)
is there anyone here saw that add in the metro screen from the "office de la langue francaise" saying...

"you have the right to require to be served in french in downtown montreal"

i'm like what the fuck!!! the government do really have to waste money for a matter like that?

i live in the Mcgill guetto, i do everything in english even if i know some people speaks french i don't care... ironically, french is my native language

is quebec is the only province having the lingustic matter in canada?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]asddsa, 2006-09-16 11:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-17 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 03:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyaan, 2006-09-17 03:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 04:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyaan, 2006-09-17 04:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 04:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strychnyn, 2006-09-17 04:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-17 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:47 am UTC

[info]ultimategirl
2006-09-16 11:25 pm UTC (link)
Someone needs to explain to Ms. Wong that coincidence is not the same as causation.

Her theory might have had a bit more weight if she actually had a quote from Valery Fabrikant (as he is the only one who did not kill himself and thus it was possible to interview him afterward) which supported her idea that marginalization within Quebec society contributed to him shooting his collegues. As it stands, we are more likely getting a better understanding of her own negative bias towards Montreal than any genuine insight into the mindsets of the various shooters.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

off topic - [info]evil_mom, 2006-09-17 12:11 am UTC

[info]morktuum
2006-09-16 11:40 pm UTC (link)
medias tries to find bugs where there's not, the mass who's hooked to the medias dig deep to find them... i don't know about the english media but some french medias pointed at the violent video games, goth and metal community and this turned to another public opinion debate... d'uh

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[info]parodie
2006-09-17 12:09 am UTC (link)
Unlike apparently everyone who is responding to this post, I thought that Jan Wong's article was interesting. Of course it's a theory, of course it's a correlation and not a causation -- everyone is fishing for theories right now.

However, the alienation of large swaths of the population in Quebec - due to language and to the seperatist movement - is undeniable. I am fully bilingual, I was born here, I am white and "pass", yet I have been told to my face that clearly my opinion is not worth much because I don't have "11 generations" of ancestors here.

When people who pass as well as I do get that kind of bullshit, I can only imagine the levels of vitrol aimed at those who do not pass as well. The leap from alienation to carnage, while certainly not unassailable, is common - and isn't that the reason we blame bullying? It's not impossible this contributed to this guy going nuts; I think it's a better theory than the music he listened to or the clothes he wore. Of course it's not the whole story, it might not even be part of it, but it's not completely out to lunch. (I will add that the commentor who wondered why this guy would then chose to attack Dawson made, IMO, the most solid point against this theory.)

As for the small-town mentality of anglophones in Montreal: it's a fact, folks. The anglo community is small. So small that linguistically, one can differentiate anglo quebeckers from anglos in the rest of the country. I don't think this is a bad thing, but it certainly is true.

Overall, Jan Wong is known for writing articles that are "edgier" than most of what the G&M carries - she used to do interviews with people that were known for being incredibly caustic and terribly honest. However, this particular story seemed to offer and different and interesting perspective, something different from the tired videogames/metal music drivel.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]fetternity, 2006-09-17 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]parodie, 2006-09-17 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]infusco, 2006-09-17 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]parodie, 2006-09-17 03:38 am UTC

[info]justjunk
2006-09-17 03:44 am UTC (link)
This has got to be the craziest article that tried to explain what happened at Dawson College. I simply find it absurd that in events like these that are quite inexplicable, many journalists go about in a frenzy, pointing their fingers at everything and anyone just because the real reason doesn't seem "interesting" enough.

THE GUY WAS JUST INSANE. He was not him anymore, he died way before he was shot and that's the only real reason behind all this.

I just wish that journalists stop pointing fingers. Stop blaming goth culture. Stop blaming violent video games.

And especially DO NOT SALT THE WOUNDS OF A CITY IN MOURNING by blaming its culture for the guy's INSANITY.



Montrealers do not need this right now. It's so damn insulting to have an article like this appear on a so-called respectable newspaper while many of us are still in shock and traumatized from the recent events.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-17 04:52 am UTC

[info]morganlefae
2006-09-17 04:34 am UTC (link)
Wow I'm... shocked. Just... shocked.

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[info]super_bon
2006-09-17 05:43 pm UTC (link)
I would write something to the paper right now, but I don't think I could put together enough polite and coherent words to get my point across.
Does she really think that the "pure laine" concept is exclusive to Québec, and that it is always used in a racist manner? She needs a dose of reality.

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[info]dgg
2006-09-18 04:29 pm UTC (link)
Guys, DON'T EVER read the Globe and Mail.

EVER.

Anytime someone read the Globe an Mail, an angel loses his wings and baby-Jesus cries.

You would get more accurate and factual reporting from reading a Playboy article.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-18 09:09 pm UTC

[info]fetternity
2006-09-19 05:04 am UTC (link)
I thought I'd give some feedback on this.

Jan Wong replied to my email to her (you can read the email sent in italics in one of my comments at the very top of the comments page), saying, more or less that there is much more english people who learned to speak both languages than Francophones.

That was about the full length of her reply.

Really. From someone who's been living here for 4 years. FOUR FUCKING YEARS! I come from Valleyfield, I was born in this province, and everywhere around Valleyfield, it's almost exclusively english-speaking. I did my homework, and I can count on ONE HAND the number of friends I have that cannot speak English.

FUCK!

I refrained from replying back to her. I might have come off as too anti-Wong if I did.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-19 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keigan, 2006-09-20 04:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batteur, 2006-09-20 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keigan, 2006-09-20 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dzuunmod, 2006-09-21 04:56 pm UTC

[info]vampire_engel
2006-09-19 10:15 pm UTC (link)
They just mentioned this article on CTV news! Maybe if you watch it at 11:30pm you might catch it again.

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[info]strychnyn
2006-09-20 03:00 am UTC (link)
just a sort of p.s.... heard a little blurb on the news tonight that Charest has sent a very pissed-off letter to the Globe and Mail demanding that Ms. Wong apologize for this very same article. wonder how she'll react?

(Reply to this)