Dude ([info]rig) wrote in [info]martial_artists,
@ 2008-05-23 09:57:00
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Current mood: rushed

Regarding My Last Entry
I just want to thank everyone who was helpfull in my last entry. A lot of good advice was given. It is really appreciated :-) I felt I need to expand on my post though, so here goes:

Regarding point number 1: I meant I would not be comfortable taking up a style where it was expected of me to CONSTANTLY do striking training against another person. I have done kickboxing and karate in the past, and I just couldn't get myself to really hurt the guy, considering my life wasn't really in danger and he didn't cause me any malice. Don't get me wrong, I know that if indeed I was one day caught in a situation, I would PREFER not to hit (or get hit), but if push came to shove... I'd still try to defuse the situation with non-striking techniques (as I have done in the past with more, non-violent situations), but if I really HAD to, I would most probably resort to striking.

Regarding point number 2 and 6: While I could take up something like jogging (or other forms of excercise) it just feels to me like the martial arts have so much more to offer. I believe that the martial arts basically covers the whole area of fitness, from strength (probably moreso with the grappling styles, unless a style also encorporates resistance training as part of the class program), to endurance, to hand-eye coordination, stretching, etc. I am aware that there are other forms of excercise that also encorporates all of these, but that's also where the comeradery comes in. Back when I did karate and judo I looked forward to going to class, to interacting with my fellow classmates. It just felt great to learn from, and to grow with each other.

Regarding point number 3: I am pretty much aware that self-defence is a rather complicated thing. I myself live in South Africa, and just this morning a work colleague told about how a burglar was caught and arrested in their security complex after her husband spotted the guy breaking into a neighbour's house. These days, going up against someone (if it's even one person anymore) is very very dangerous, because the chances of him pulling out a concealed knife, or even gun, is highly likely. However, as the saying goes "I'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it".

Regarding point number 4: I took judo for a while when I was younger, until we moved away from that town. I really enjoyed it. Unfortunately I never really got the opportunity to take it up. I DID actually find my old sensei, but we moved shortly again after that. I like the technicality of grappling, using body weight and leverage to outmanevour your opponent. Also, it makes you DAMN FIT, especially all the randori :-) If I could, I would probably take up judo again, or probably even jujitsu.

Regarding point number 5: I think the reason I have a more negative connectation towards hand strikes is because my father slapped me around sometimes when I was young. I still flinche when someone does a hand movement near my face. When I did karate I did a lot more kicking than punching, mainly because a) I felt more comfortable doing it and b) I wanted to keep the guy away from hitting my face. I have actually been thinking if I shouldn't go somewhere where I can overcome my fear of getting hit, but I'm not sure about committing myself to something where I would get hit (and hit someone back) most of the time.

Regard point number 6: I wasn't sure if I should post that, because it seemed to rile up a lot of people. I am aware of Christ's teaching of peace and non-violence, but the Bible also teaches us to be prepared in a certain situation. As the saying goes "God helps those who helps themselves". Also I AM weary of taking up a more oriental-based style, because of the influences it may have with that cultures religion. I don't have a problem with someone else practicing another religion, but it's just that I wouldn't want to be in an environment where the influences of that religion is quite strong most of the time. Lastly I do NOT have a problem with bowing to an instructor. It's a form of respect after all. Bowing to a statue, or anything else though is a big nono for me. I'm sure this number will stir up a lot of people, but please note, it is my beliefs. I didn't come on here to bash anyone, but just make it clear what my core principles are.

Thank you again for your time and input. Blessings to you all :-)

EDIT: People I do NOT have a problem with bowing. Bowing, as far as I am concerned, is a cultural thing, NOT a religious thing. There's a BIG difference between bowing to show one's respect, and going down on your knees for worshipping. I just wanted to point this out, because people seem to be hammering on it for some strange reason.


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[info]fatman112006
2008-05-23 09:44 am UTC (link)
Brazilian jujitsu. that's the route for you.

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[info]slavka
2008-05-23 11:47 am UTC (link)
Lastly I do NOT have a problem with bowing to an instructor. It's a form of respect after all. Bowing to a statue, or anything else though is a big nono for me

how about bowing to the dojo? If you don't do that, some instructors might bless you a little too hard

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[info]rig
2008-05-23 12:21 pm UTC (link)
No, I do not have a problem with that.

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[info]thesupercracker
2008-05-23 01:44 pm UTC (link)
As stated by others, bowing is really just a sign of respect and not to mean you're worshipping anything. In alot of Aikido schools for instance you bow to a picture of O-Sensei, showing respect for the founder of the art. I recall a way's back my teacher was telling me about how at an Aikido dojo that he assistant teaches at, he got called over by the dojo head to answer the questions of a couple individuals. They expressed interest in training, but were worried that the philosophy of Aikido might interfere with their religious beliefs, so my teacher told them that in the dojo, they have lots of people from lots of religions and no one really cares about what you believe, but if you won't bow to the picture of O-Sensei before and after training then don't bother joining.
In alot of cases the principles which budo tries to instill in people gel with what I think I remember Christian principles are. In the koryu things are a little more difficult to explain and let people feel cool with. In the instances of the old school forms of Japanese combat, you train to adopt the ryu's outlook, or world view, through a combination of the training of techniques and the underlying philosophy of the ryu, so a Niten Ichi Ryu guy will look at things in a Niten Ichi Ryu way, or a Yagyu Shinkage Ryu guy will look at things in a Yagyu Shinkage Ryu way. Sometimes this means paying respect to the spirits, and if that bothers you then that bothers you. In the koryu mindset, you change for the ryu, it does not change for you. In the cases of some people I train with that means looking at things in a way where the principles of the ryu are the same as their Christian beliefs.
But that's koryu, which are centuries old and come with alot of crazy old beliefs and ways of doing things. Modern budo is generally alot more ambiguous in any kind of religious beliefs and generally are up to the instructor. The TKD school I trained in when I was a kid had a great big cross on the wall and the teacher belonged to the Christian Black Belt Association.
What I want to close with is that in the case of training in an Eastern art, learn what and why you're being asked to do something before rejecting it as a knee jerk reaction due to your beliefs. Not implying that you do that, but in my time I've encountered people who've accussed me of trying to trick them into devil worshipping by demanding they bow to the kamiza at the beginning of class. The fact that other very Christian members of the dojo did so without issue did not seem to matter to them.

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[info]iq5203
2008-05-23 02:03 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm... Never had to bow to a statue before... Instructors, fellow students, pictures of style founders, that sort of thing sure. Your previous post was unclear as to what part of training you had an issue with is all :) If you find a good place that has everything else but violates this part, you may be able to speak to the instructor and work something out.

I pretty much agree with the other folk, sounds like aiki/ju do/jitsu would be a good match.

I applaud your efforts to get back into martial arts. Overcoming an abusive childhood is extremely difficult. If you find an instructor you can trust, you may be able to discuss this with them, and come up with some ideas as to how to overcome your fears. Good luck to you.

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[info]rig
2008-05-23 02:16 pm UTC (link)
Thank you very much :-)

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[info]kowboy
2008-05-23 05:34 pm UTC (link)
In the "so traditional there were no white people" kung fu gym I worked out in for years, there was a statue of either Huangdi or Master Chang San-Feng (I could never tell which) toward which we would bow as a sign of respect at the start of workouts.

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[info]aerynvale
2008-05-23 04:07 pm UTC (link)
where I can overcome my fear of getting hit

I hear that in regular old boxing, they train you to stand still and take a punch in the face. That seems like a pretty hard-core way to overcome an aversion trained into by abuse, though. For that I'd recommend regular old therapy in combination with whatever martial training you go for.

Good luck in your pursuits.

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[info]kowboy
2008-05-23 05:57 pm UTC (link)
Also I AM weary of taking up a more oriental-based style, because of the influences it may have with that cultures religion.

Not to seem like I'm pushing buttons unnecessarily, but all the traditional schools with whom I've studied have very little to do with religion. In fact, all the Chinese and Koreans with whom I've trained all find it hilarious that Westerners feel the need to mix some sort of "spiritual" aspect into their training. The only "orientals" who seem to do that on their own are certain Japanese practices (e.g.: Aikido and Kyudo for example) and some of the Burmese and Indonesian martial arts. Even practitioners of the Chinese internal (or soft) styles like tai chi chuan and qigong would likely say they are incorporating philosophical ideas of balance and correct health into their training rather than some sort of spirituality.

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[info]fistofnathan
2008-06-02 08:34 am UTC (link)
Sounds like most people suggest judo/jujutsu/Brazilian jiu-jitsu and I agree too. You also seem leaning towards something like that anyhow, so go with your heart.

The only thing I can say (which I think was said by someone else) is you're limited to what's available. I would like to spend a little time with an authentic Baji Quan instructor, but they are so rare as to be nonexistent in my area.

However, sometimes some groups are not very advertised in areas and there are more than you think if you know where and how to search for them.

I hope you find what you're looking for and best of luck to you.

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[info]rig
2008-06-02 09:06 am UTC (link)
Thank you very much. I agree that one is usually limited to what's available, especially when, like me, you live in a small town where your ammount of choices (in everything, not just a martial art school) is very limited. For this reason alone I'd move back to the city someday. As stated there is a Kenjutsu school here, which is pretty cool, but unfortunately it's only once a week, and to me that's not enough (time-wise as well as the ammount of money you're expected to pay for only once a week). I'll see when I move back to the city someday I guess.

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[info]purple_mercury
2008-06-26 05:33 am UTC (link)
Do a throwy-grapply martial art. Regardless you can't NOT keep fit by other means if you intend on really advancing. If you don't like running, fine, go cycling. Or skipping. The fitter you are, the less your body is focused on just trying to keep up in classes, and the more you can focus on and take in the lessons being taught. Sure, you will be able to shadow the movement and do it a few times in class, but having the fitness already there is a good thing, not just in the class but the fitter you are overall the better your outcomes in just about anything.

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