Death Note: Offical vs Fan Translations, FIGHT!
A couple days ago, telophase linked an article about ambiguities that were not present in the Japanese version of Fruits Basket, but were introduced or exaggerated in Tokyopop's official English translation. That article might've given you a sense of the usual difficulites associated with translation from Japanese, e.g., the general lack of subject pronouns.

But that's not what I want to talk about! I picked up Viz' English release of Death Note today. If you haven't heard of it, Death Note is a supernatural thriller about top-student Light Yagami, who finds a Shinigami's notebook called a "Death Note"[1] . You can write people's names in this notebook and, provided you know what they look like, they'll die. Light decides to use the Death Note to kill everyone he doesn't approve of and make the world a better place. He's shadowed by a shinigami named Ryuk -- the same shinigami who purposely dropped his Death Note where a human would find it (he thought it would be funny[2]). Light's greatest obstacle is the brilliant, mysterious detective known only as "L".

This is a pretty...in depth discussion of differences between one fan translation of Death Note and the official Enlgish translation. Before I go into detail, a few points:

• I'll be working from Orange Tangerine (OT) scanslations, not the original Japanese. In comparison with other scanlation groups, OT is considered average, certainly not terrible.
• In the OT scanlations, "Light" is called "Raito". This is because the scanlations were done before the mangaka clarified that the official romanization of Light's katakana name -- "lai/rai to" -- was "Light."
• Viz' translators were working from the first Death Note volume release, while OT's were sometimes working from the chapters as they were originally published in Weekly Jump. For Japanese volume releases, it's common practice to fix text and art[3] mistakes and to include extras like short comics and series info. Publishers do this to convince people who have already seen the manga in magazines to buy the book.
• For the love all that's holy, please don't get on my case for comparing amateurs to professionals. Of course I don't think that translations done by fans, for fun and not profit, should be held up to the same standards as paid work. But if there can be a million posts about why XXX fan translation is SO MUCH BETTER than XXX translation by COMPANY A, I don't see why I can't make ONE post which mentions things the pros do better. What I am mainly trying to do here is say something about the ways small differences in translation effect understanding. I'm not pointing fingers.

THERE ARE SPOILERS FROM THE FIRST VOLUME OF DEATH NOTE HERE.
Also, I'm linking to most images but there are still about 200 K's worth under the cut. All images should be read right-to-left.

EDIT:
krimi posts with the original Japanese in this comment.

OUTLINE:
1.
Casual Speech VS Direct Translation

This is the number one complaint fans who have been following unofficial translations have with official translations. Translations for the American market will almost always include more (American) slang, more contractions, and in general less stiltedness/formality. Especially if it's a Jump U.S. title (Death Note is labeled Jump Advanced because of its 16-and-older themes).

IMAGE: Viz formality VS OT formality

Viz' translation sounds more natural to Americans. The difference is less marked here than it is in manga marketed to a younger audience, e.g. D.N. Angel or Naruto. In the end, it's a matter of personal taste -- the orginal Japanese did not "read" American, but neither did it read as stiffly as in the fan translation.

The single most notible speech difference is Ryuk's. He tends to use "gonna," "gotta," etc in the official translation. (Is this a reflection of especial informality in Japanese?! Plz comment if you know.)

---
(Colorary: Professional Speech VS Direct Translation)

From a scene where Interpol discusses the MASS DEATHS of criminals:
IMAGE: Viz diplomat-speak vs OT literalism

Viz' Interpol representatives sound more like diplomats. It's worth noting that on the privious page, there is an error in the Orange Tangerine translation exactly like the error on this page[4], where "G8 Summit" was written as "some developed country" .


Which segues neatly into:

2.
Mistranslation and the meaning of *assurance*

(Viz) VS (Orange Tangerine)

I think I know what happened here. Whatever word is being translated, it's the English equivilant of "assurance" -- maybe it means confidence, and maybe it means guarentee. Ryuk is contemplating why it is that that Light can be so relaxed when the world's hottest detective is hot on his tail (bad pun, sorry). Either this is because Light is confident (OT), or it's because he has something up his sleeve (Viz).
From the context, IT'S BOTH. Reading the manga, Viz' translation is smoother and makes more sense out of Light and Ryuk's subsequent dialogue. It's probably right. I'm pointing this out because this word re-appears on pages 103, 116, and 117[6] -- in other words, it spans two chapters and is the centerpiece of one.

Why does this matter? Um. It changes the focus of chapter three. In Viz' scenario, where Light is planning something, the suspense comes from the audience wanting to know what he's planning. In OT's translation, the suspense comes the audience wanting to know more about this particular facet of Light's personality.

This is shonen manga. Can you see why narrative suspense might be preferable to emotional suspense? In every other chapter, narrative suspence >> (is infinitely greater than) emotional suspence. Characterization matters, but only so far as it is what causes the characters to advance the plot. So what we are talking about here, besides logic, is consistency.

...okay, back to things I can prove with scans.


3.
Comparitive Ambiguity

With Death Note, at least in the first volume and at least on the pages I've scanned for you, what we have is the OPPOSITE situation from the article telophase linked. The official translation clarifies. Here're two (insufficient) examples.


A) On the Internet

"Only those who believe in his exisistence and return may enter this site"...I don't want to think about how many times people on death_note wondered about this line. Only those who return frequently to the website are allowed to enter it? What?[5]

B) Making the world a better place

You are probably thinking, what's the difference? These two pages are functionally identical. The difference is in the last panel on the page: "immoral people who do evil will slowly be killed by disease and accidents" versus "I'll gradually be killing off immoral people and people who harass others through illnesses and accients" (Light can chose the type of death). This may not seem significant to you -- obviously the people dying from disease are dying because of Light, so why should we need a pronoun to tell us that? -- but I've been in Death Note fandom for a while and I can tell you that not once during the (many) discussions of Light's morality did anyone mention that he plans to kill, not just criminials and anyone who threatens him, but also those whom he considers immoral. From the very beginning! And on the sly, as it were, while the whole world thinks Kira only does heart attacks. Everyone missed this point. I missed this point. It's a lot harder to miss this point in the Viz translation.

Do you prefer exhaustive clarity to brief sentences? Death Note is already a wordy manga, and the Viz translation adds more words. I do think it's clearer, though.

This brings us to:

4.
Characterization
Very subtly different. For example,

---Ryuk:


This is from Viz. In Oragne Tangerine he says, "HUmans are...interesting." This comes up again and again -- in the OT version Ryuk's greatest goal is not to be bored, while in the Viz version it's to be entertained. Preferably by something funny. And Ryuk thinks everything is funny.

---Light and Sayu:
Here is where I prove that this is a MANGA essay and not just text analysis.

(Orange Tangerine)

VS

(Viz)

Light helping his younger sister Sayu do quadratic equations. This comes up on a few pages -- in Viz version he teases her, in OT version he puts her off. Which one (and how much is genuine versus how much is acted) becomes important for emotional reasons later. In any case, although the direct translation is probably the OT one, look at Light's expression. Obata is really, really good with expressions. He knows the difference between tired of helping your little sister and pretend-exasperated with your little sister's lack of progress. Which one does it look like to you?


---L and Watari:
This has less to do with L and Watari, and more to do with their relationship to Interpol.

(Orange Tangerine)
• Interpol agent, talking about L: "How can we even contact him?"
• Interpol agent, talking about L: "He's out last resort."
• Another Interpol agent, talking about Watari: "[Watari is our contact with L.] Even Watari doesn't know who L really is."
• L, addressing the agents: "I hope the force can be moved to Japan."

VS
• Interpol agent, talking about L: "We have no way of contacting him."
• Interpol agent, talking about L: "He's our trumph card, an ace in the hole..."
• Another Interpol agent, talking about Watari: "[Watari is L's only contact with the outside world.] But nobody knows who Watari really is either."
• L, addressing the agents: "I therefore request the investigation by headquartered in Japan."

Do you see how much more in control L and Watari are in Viz? Interpol listens to them, not the other way around. This makes much more sense later.

The biggest difference in characterization, however, is Light's.

---Light:



People the world can do without

These two things are different, right? In one Light uses general terms, and in the other he suggests that people who complain about their mothers and go to college parties deserve to die. I'm not sure which interpretation is the correct one, but in many places in this volume Viz's Light is more...obvious about his superiority complex.

We're on the home stretch!

5.
Deliberate Changes

Considering the pains Viz goes through to make Light obviously less sympathetic, there is one very key thing they take out.

Light: And I...


This is in the Orage Tangerine translation. It's literal. Light pretty famously has a God-complex. It's inspired discussion, fanart, fanfic, icons... I made an icon from this line, here it is:



...to get back on track, Viz removes all mentions of God. In the official release sitting on my desk, this line becomes, "And I...will reign over a new world." This isn't an isolated incident.

According to OT:
• Random student, on Kira's actions: "You'd have to be some sort of God." (EDIT: it seems the original Japanese compares Kira to Superman, not God.)
• Light, on himself: "I am the god placed here to save the weak and create a perfect world."

VS

• Random student, on Kira's actions: "It's gotta be some sort of superhero brigade, like the X-men or something."
• Light, on himself: "I'm the hero who's liberating people from evil. I'm the saviour who's going to be like a god of this perfect new world!" (emphasis mine)

For whatever reason, Viz doesn't want to use the G-word. Light's a hero or a superhero or a saviour or like a god, eventually, but he is not a god. Fairly ridiculous, considering the godhood delusions form a significant part of Light's character (and are an important part of what makes Light with the Death Note different from Light without the Death Note -- with the Death Note, they find expression).

There's one other change I noticed which is definitely a change, and not a difference of opinion or mistake:

(Orange Tangerine)

In Viz, Sayu says "Isn't this kind of dirty? Oh, I know. Is this why you locked your door?"

Not a big thing, just a little bit of cleaning up. Sayu is, I believe, thriteen in this chapter and Viz probably thought it would inappropriate if she knew too much about dirty magazines/looked through them for pictures. I am wondering what they will do with her later scenes with Misa, which are... femslash suggestive if you're not a Japanese reader, probably closer to normal female behavior if you're a Japanese reader. Platonic interest in the bodies of other women is one of those cultural things that doesn't always translate well. (For that matter, schoolgirl crushes on other schoolgirls -- which no one remarks on or thinks are strange -- is another thing that doesn't translate well.)


6.
Caveat

This is the "panels I liked better in Orange Tangerine" section (besides the God bit, I mean). Non-Death Note fans, feel free to skip this section.

(Viz) VS (OT)
Besides being in color, I prefer OT because "old man" is more obscure than it needs to be considering we are talking about the King of the Shinigami, who becomes important later.

(Viz)
The OT says, "Murdered...two people...with my own hands," which I think makes a lot more sense considering Light is staring at his hands in the art. It's a crime to waste Obata's art.

Famous declaration of war between Light and L (Viz version)
Viz' translation has too many words to be dramatic. It's clunky. I actually prefer the OT, which is "I will hunt you down and destroy you! I am...Justice!!"

Now here's something neat. In one chapter, Light tries to mess with L's head by having dying criminals write out a nonsensical message to him. The message is encoded in an even more nonsensical suicide note. Viz and OT use two different notes and two different encoding schemes, although the message is the same. I think OT did a better job with this:

(Viz)
(Orange Tangerine)

So. Can you read the message?

7.
Closing remarks

Lastly, I just want to note that while this is an essay about differences, as you have probably noticed the translation is in most cases FUNCTIONALLY IDENTICAL.

IMAGE: sample Viz page VS sample OT page

Notice that even some of the phrasing is the same. I've been really compulsive about what I think constitutes a difference in meaning -- BECAUSE I HAD TO BE. We're talking minor differences here, not major ones. If I've been sucessful here, you will already know that even minor differences make a difference.

Conclusion? Do I need a conclusion? Here is my conclustion:

Geeze, this turned out really long. Was I that bored? Do I have that much free time? No, but I just came from surgery this morning and I'm on three different kinds of pain medications, which is three kinds too many for schoolwork. Twarted productivity = long long entry on manga_talk, hahaha. Hope you guys were entertained at least. And to anyone who reads this who's been following Death Note through scanlations, I recommend you at least look at a copy from Viz.

8.
Footnotes

[1]In Japan, "note" is slang for "notebook."

[2] "Ryuk" is one of (many) Japanese sound effects for laughter, kind of like Moe's "hyuk, hyuk, hyuk." Ryuk is ALWAYS laughing.

[3] Death Note is written by Tsugumi Ohba and drawn by Obata Tagashi, who is best known for Hikaru no Go. Tsugumi and her editors are the ones fixing the text. Obata and his editors are the ones fixing the art. This has occasionally included major character re-designs, but is most often minor fixes, LIKE correcting the perspective on backgrounds or adding tone. For example:

The volume scan adds shadows beind the characters, not just in the panel but on the entire page (which I am not showing for Plot Reasons). This is to match the shadows in the previous chapter, which takes place in the same location. Obata or his assistants probably meant to add shading to the original Shonen Jump release as well, but ran into time constraints (read: Weekly Jump comes out at an INSANELY fast rate).

[4]It's also worth noting that Viz puts editor's notes on the same page, in the margin. This is really convenient, especially since most of these notes are necessary for understanding and who wants to flip to the back of the book for that? At the same time I wish the Shonen Jump titles had a editor's comments list in the back of the book for notes that are not essential to understanding, but do enhance it (e.g. footnotes [2]).

[5]The other cool thing about this page is that it shows Light uses Netscape navigator. XD. In another page, his father uses Excel. Both have PCs -- this is being conventional? In a page that has been sadly altered for Viz' release, we are no longer told explicitly that L uses a Powerbook G4 (a Mac), although you can still tell from the art. Strangly, the font he uses for his "L" symbol is Old English Text MT, a standard Microsoft Word font. This concludes today's Useless Death Note Trivia section.

[6]If you are wondering whether I mean the English or the Japanese page numbers, you're in luck! They are exactly identical.


***

I'll be linking this entry from death_eyes and my personal journal. I might eventually put it on my website; but won't be doing comparisons for Volumes 2, 3, etc. Once was enough!

If I've made any errors or gross assumptions, and you see them, please point them out. If you'd like compare the translations here with the original Japanese, leave a comment and I'll hook you up with the appropriate RAW scan in a screened reply. I, myself, cannot read Japanese. I just like to speculate.

(66 comments) - (Post a new comment)

elfiepike 2005-10-22 11:07 pm UTC (link)

this has actually convinced me to start picking up the viz release. there's nothing like being able to read comics while on public transit. :D i would imagine the removing of all the god comparisons is because light isn't saying he's God, which is really the only connotation that most americans would have, the one god, right? the phrasing could make it unintentionally offensive to some, maybe. (i'm pulling this out of my ass, i don't really know.) though that's one thing that i think would definitely benefit from a last-page editor's notes section, re: cultural religious differences and the whole last name-first name thing, which i have a hang-up about when i read official translations. XD (Reply to this) (Thread)

sub_divided 2005-10-23 12:31 am UTC (link)

I was thinking about this for the Viz translation of "shinigami" in Bleach -- why "soul reaper" instead of "god of death"? maybe because "god" would be misleading to a Western audience. So that could be it here, except that Viz does translate "shinigami" as "death god" in Death Note. (When the word's first introduced, anyway. Later they just use shinigami.) I think the difference bewteen God with a capital G and god without a capital G should be self-explanatory to Western readers, who at the very least should be familiar with pagan gods. But whether readers get the difference or not ultimately DOES NOT MATTER, because Light is not ANY kind of god, but is a sociopathic Honor student with delusions of godhood. Or maybe even Godhood -- between Ryuk and (later) Misa, there is enough misplaced Christian symbolgy in Death Note to make this leap plausible. When Light says "god" it's a major clue that he's disturbed, the first clue he's changed from the "human using the death note for humans", and a comentary on what it means to have power over life and death, NOT an invitation to build a shrine to him. If Viz is worried about cults, good luck to them. Kira's semi-religious following is important to the storyline. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - elfiepike, 2005-10-23 01:11 am UTC

(no subject) - ahsirakh, 2005-10-23 06:21 am UTC

(no subject) - sub_divided, 2005-10-23 08:04 am UTC

the_beanmaster 2005-10-23 01:26 am UTC (link)

Thanks for taking the time to write this :D I'm proud of Viz. They've come a long way. A very long way. Not to say other manga publishing companies haven't, but Viz has gone farthest on the road of most craptacular to not so craptacular. Looks like they put some effort into Death Note! Hah. Never would have guessed... The big thing with me is always how they make things less formal in the English versions. Like, I'm wondering how they're going to translate L when we meet him. L talks with formal speech, but it'll sound weird to me if he talks the same way as Light and Misa and everyone else, you know? Or how Light (generally) uses different speech when he's thinking and when he's speaking to people, polite when he speaks and informal in his head. And I actually think they're downplaying his psycho "I can do anything" ego... But, maybe that's just me. (Reply to this) (Thread)

telophase 2005-10-23 01:43 am UTC (link)

I was happy to learn that Ak of Troy is going to be translating Death Note for Viz from ... er volume 4? not sure .... on. Before he went pro, he was about the only fan translater who'd I'd accept as being able to both get the meaning as close as he could to the Japanese and make it sound like normal, spoken English. (Not that I had a whole lot to base that opinion on other than the "sounding like normal English" bit. XD) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - greenapple2004, 2005-10-23 09:06 am UTC

(no subject) - telophase, 2005-10-23 12:45 pm UTC

jimmy_thesiger 2005-10-23 02:06 am UTC (link)

I loved this analysis. I had no idea how different views of Raito could influence the result or the readings of the translations. I'd say that from what I read in Chinese, to the best of my recollection (if that is the phrase, I can't remember), the conversation between Raito and his sister (part [5]) followed OT. I like OT's rendition of Raito better. He's more likely to speak with precise words, rather than "geez" and all that. but again, palatability and suitability to audience will vary. For the final frame (p 152), having shadows was a clever idea, but I think that the smaller font in OT really conveyed something...I can't quite describe it, but it's with the "..." and the look in Raito's eyes... Thank you so much for this!! It's a marvellous analysis, and it's very entertaining and sort of eye-opening. (And I hope you are feeling better!!!) (Reply to this)

	mscongeniality 2005-10-23 02:12 am UTC (link)
	Thanks for posting this. I started reading Death Note with the Viz release and in retrospect am sort of regretting not having looked into it sooner. This certainly does provide a bit of perspective. (Reply to this)

eskh 2005-10-23 02:43 am UTC (link)

I think they didn't mentioned the God thing because Raito actually compares himself to the monotheist God. He doesn't seems to mean he's some kind of god of justice or something among other gods, but the only God who will run the world.That may have disturbed them (blaspheme, etc). The shinigamis are more like demon figures, like the demons in catholic tradition who are supposed to make you feel miserable in Hell. I think they could maintain the word God because they are Gods (plural). And I think it's a shame. Like you mentioned, it's an important part of his personality and of the meaning of the whole story, plus Raito has much more disturbing sides than his god-complex. As for the other differences you pointed at, it makes me feel even more frustrated not knowing Japanese. It's hard to determine if a translator doesn't over interprets the exact meaning of a sentence while he tries to make it more fluent. (sorry about the grammar, I'm not english native speaker) And, hmm...good recovery (Reply to this)

	fantomeq 2005-10-23 04:30 am UTC (link)
	What a thorough job you've done. Very interesting. The only thing I am irritated by is the god issue, but the rest seems mostly improvements. Thanks for the info! (Reply to this)

teatime 2005-10-23 05:49 am UTC (link)

I've got to say, you've done a wonderful job of writing this. I've got the first four untranslated volumes of Death Note, and Viz did an amazing job "reconstructing" the manga, as it were. The cover is as close as it can get. They left off the obi strips, but I can't complain there. Obi strips always bothered me a bit, and I never saw the point. But the textures and finishes on the cover is the same, and the stock paper for the cover used is the same as well. Here's a detailed response to some of your points: Viz formality VS OT formality I think the lack of formality is a reflection of how Light and Ryuuk talk to each other. I'm no fluent Japanese speaker, so I could be wrong here. He gives me the impression of being a bit less formal with Ryuuk, people he would consider friends, his sister, etc. than with instructors, parents and authority figures. The less flippant attitude he has with "authority figures" is probably just part of Japanese culture, unless he decides to (for lack of a better term) act like a little punk. I'm pretty sure that happens too, but I haven't read the later volumes in English for obvious reasons (though I have read the scanlations). It seems that Light talks in the way an average teenager would talk. And he is... that. Average, normal, excellent student, highly unsuspectable of any wrongdoing. This, obviously, becomes more important later. (this will be continued, I maxed out my posting character limit by about 3,000 hahaha) (Reply to this) (Thread)

teatime 2005-10-23 05:51 am UTC (link)

Viz diplomat-speak vs OT literalism Viz's translation has just been translated into "appropriate office speak". OT has always been a bit more literal, but they don't want their meaning to be misunderstood, so it's perfectly acceptable that way, if a bit stilted. It was the only way I could read Death Note for a long time, so I'm just thankful they put the effort into translating it well. Mistranslation and the meaning of *assurance* You're right, it IS both. Viz just phrases it better. They're paid to do that, and I think it's their job to phrase things in a bit smoother way, but to also get you thinking. I wouldn't have expected that of OT. They're translators, and while there is some adaptation involved, professionals are better at that sort of thing. They have the means to research and be in contact with other manga industry professionals. Scanlation groups don't have that luxury, nor should such things be expected of them. After all, they are providing a service in translation of graphic novels, not the overall research and adaptation of them into English. It's too much work, in my opinion. It just didn't dawn on me until a little later that Light was planning something based on OT's translation. That's not a bad thing, it's just a different speed of plot development. On the Internet Viz translates it more smoothly, but they're both saying the same thing. OT used 'return' instead of 'resurrection'. They didn't mean return to the web site. It's just a matter of interpretation there. Making the world a better place Yep, I missed that point too. It's like everything clicked when I read that page in the manga. Yes, the little light bulb came on above my head and I went 'Ohhhh, I get it now'. I prefer exhaustive clarity. I don't mind the wordiness in the least. Yes, that's how I like my manga. Exhaustively clear and wordy. *cue english-lit-major glee* But... it disturbs me how cheerful and smiley Light is when he says these things. I had forgotten about that feeling until I read that panel again. Re: Kira and God God is a different concept in the US than in Japan. It's a cultural thing. There's always the potential to offend people by putting a character in a manga who says he's God, or says he will be God. Simply put, it's no good. I don't mind it, and I'm sure a lot of other people won't. But Viz might be thinking of parents who monitor what their kids are reading. That's a pretty big factor in how things are translated. Or at least I think it is. Also, Christianity is "big" in America, as it were. I'm not sure about Japan, but I don't think it's quite as "big", hence the difference in wording in regards to Light/Kira being God. Plus... the X-men thing is just easier to understand. Show me a person that's into comic books that doesn't know who the X-men are. That just doesn't happen. (Going to be continued again... I don't believe this, sorry for making so many comments!) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - teatime, 2005-10-23 05:51 am UTC

(no subject) - summonillusion, 2005-10-23 06:22 am UTC

(no subject) - teatime, 2005-10-23 06:26 am UTC

(no subject) - sub_divided, 2005-10-23 11:39 pm UTC

(no subject) - teatime, 2005-10-24 12:01 am UTC

	summonillusion 2005-10-23 06:21 am UTC (link)
	I kind of dislike how when they americanize crap they make so many lines so much more ridiculously stereotypical. I mean, I have a hard time not laughing reading lines like "if it's the last thing I do!" especially as a change. and it's really fucking pathetic how they don't want to use the g word. not really of them, as much as how good and evil goes in our country. (Reply to this) (Thread)

telophase 2005-10-23 12:44 pm UTC (link)

Here's a point to think about, thugh: are the phrases they're translating into stereotypical American English originally stereotypical Japanese phrases? In which case the translation would be much closer to the meaning of the text than the literalness of the text. I don't know either way: I'm just throwing that out as a possibility. I can see good arguments for both sides. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - summonillusion, 2005-10-23 04:22 pm UTC

Informality se12es 2005-10-23 09:40 am UTC (link)

Sorry, haven't read all of this yet!! but I will, I just lose track of thoughts if I don't act on them... Ever seen how Lunar translates bleach's Ichimaru Gin? They made him sound like some hillbilly cowboy redneck, or something to that extent(I'm not american, but I know the kind of way they portrayed him. Because I could tell he had an odd manner in his speech). Sometimes language slang is made up in a way an american understands,,, to express that this is what it is like if they were a japanese person hearing someone speak in a different or strange japanese dialect/speech manner. A proper & mannerful speech will probably be translated as "going to", an informal and familiar speech is probably going to be translated as "gonna". (Reply to this)

(Anonymous) 2005-10-23 02:48 pm UTC (link)

Very interesting article. A few comments: In your first example, on "Viz formality VS OT formality," "What a pain..." (Viz) isn't just more informal than "This is going to take some time to read..." (OT), it has a different meaning. In your example for "Making the world a better place," I suspect that the Japanese omits the subject pronoun. But Viz's interpretation seems logical: if all Light means is that evil people are going to die off eventually (as OT has it), why specify that they'll die by "disease and accidents"? Regarding "humans are a riot" vs. "humans are interesting," I suspect that the Japanese word used was "omoshiroi," which can mean either "interesting" or "funny." This is just one of the annoying things about Japanese :) On the Sayu "dirty pictures" thing, I don't think it's that uncommon, even in the U.S., for teenage girls to be curious about "dirty pictures." I would be interested in seeing the raw Japanese for these, and also for the "People the world can do without" example. --Adam (the guy who wrote the article on FB translation you mentioned in the first paragraph) (Reply to this) (Thread)

sub_divided 2005-10-23 08:56 pm UTC (link)

OH GOOD. It'll be nice to have non-speculative answers. A part of the problem is that I really do think these are subtleties in translation -- words that could be read either way, like "omoshiroi" for example -- rather than absolute errors. Therefore, you need to know more than beginner Japanese to really decode them; and even then there may not be an absolute answer. 1. "What a pain" might be a better example of something I mentioned later, which is that Viz tends to take ambiguous sentences and add meaning to them. A lot of the time this is meaning that might be implied in the orginal -- then again it might not be -- but isn't stated explicitly. Mnny many things are added, I could probably have found better examples. 2. "I'll" is probably implied. I was pointing out that without I'll, everyone I know overlooked this sentence. 3. You're probably right. In this case, which is closer to Ryuk's personality? It's an editorial decision that significantly effects characterization. And it's impossible to tell from Ryuk's exression, since he never changes it. 4. That's what I think too. I don't think the change, if it was a change, was necessary. ARG I'm having trouble with the raws. One site's down, one redirects to Amazon.jp, two only have chapters 61+, and the rest are in French. I can read French, but the translations there are SO similar to Orange Tangerine's that I suspect they were done from the English rather than from the Japanese. I mean, they're EXACTLY the same (this is possible with French and English). I'll keep looking, but in the meantime here are the page numbers: 1. chapter 1 page 12 2. chapter 1 page 47 3. chapter 2 page 81 (similar wording on page 49 of chapter 1) 4. chapter 3 page 90 And "people the world can do without" is chapter 1 page 36) Thanks for the offer, I'll keep looking! Great article, by the way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ryutenken 2005-10-23 04:42 pm UTC (link)

^^ that was fun to read :D well, i have to say, i'm one of the persons who likes the scanlation better than the viz-version... maybe it's because i'm not american (not a native english-speaking to be exact), but that sort of slang they're talking just doesn't suit my taste... it sounds kind of unnatural that they're all talking like that (especially that smart raito ._.). okay, for the point with the kira-website, viz is better (the font is hard to read, though .__.) what i think is totally stupid is to compare raito to a "hero like x-men" -___- it's so stupid that they can't stick to "god" -_-° and about the icpo's adressing L: to me, it seems like viz-translation kind of contradict itself... first he says "we can't contact him" (<- they have to wait until he contacts them) and then he says "he's our trump card"... imho is a trump card something you have up your sleeve, something you can come out with whenever you like to, the ultimate weapon in a fight (like L sitting in a room just waiting for the call saying "we need you, come here!"). and not something you have to depend on its mercy that it will generously contact you..... but maybe that's just me ^^° and the "suicide-message": i wonder why ot's is so much longer than viz's oO° what was standing there in the original and how was it coded there? (Reply to this)

	crispypoohs 2005-10-23 07:10 pm UTC (link)
	Part of the disparity here between characterization comes when you take into account that Orange Tangerine translated from Chinese translations. The more languages you filter through, the more original character you loose. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Translating from a translation (Anonymous) 2005-10-24 03:11 pm UTC (link)

OT was translating from a Chinese translation? That puts things in a different light. Any translation is an approximation, so a translation of a translation is an approximation of an approximation. And I would expect this would be even more true when the three languages involved are unrelated to each other, as is the case here. And also, of course, any mistakes in the first translation will be carried over into the second translation (unless OT was able to check their translation against the Japanese original). Given this, I'd be wary of putting much reliance on OT's translation, no matter how skilled they are. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Translating from a translation - (Anonymous), 2005-10-24 03:12 pm UTC

akoftroy 2005-10-23 11:42 pm UTC (link)

"what i think is totally stupid is to compare raito to a "hero like x-men" -___- it's so stupid that they can't stick to "god" -_-°" Umm... The Japanese text mentions "Superman", Viz just changed it to a more popular super hero. Seems like everyone is comparing the script to the OT version and assuming the OT version is right... Why not compare it to the original Japanese script...? Also, how come nobody comments that the OT script has sentences ending with no punctuation?!! LOL... (Reply to this) (Thread)

	teatime 2005-10-24 12:06 am UTC (link)
	It's hard to compare something to original Japanese when you don't speak or read it. It's possible that I (and maybe other people) were so focused on the content, that missing punctuation didn't matter. I can't recall one way or another, and I'd have to go back and look. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - sub_divided, 2005-10-24 12:30 am UTC

(no subject) - oceanizer, 2007-05-19 05:52 pm UTC

(no subject) - sub_divided, 2007-05-20 03:23 am UTC

(no subject) - mistressrenet, 2005-10-24 12:19 pm UTC

(no subject) - ryutenken, 2005-10-25 11:25 am UTC

	akoftroy 2005-10-24 01:05 am UTC (link)
	Plus nobody has mentioned that Viz screwed up on Raye Penber's name even though it's written in English... DOH! Should be fixed in the reprinted though. (there's a few other dumb errors like that too...oh well) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	obviouslyanon 2005-10-26 01:09 am UTC (link)
	There was a "Killa" instead of a "Kira" in there also. I think you were the one who said he changed it back to "Kira," right? Because if you were I want to thank you. When I saw Killa, it just looked funny. The Raye Pember thing was just odd. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mistressrenet 2005-10-24 12:20 pm UTC (link)
	Great analysis. I really don't envy translators-- what a tricky, subtle business. (Reply to this)

tiggymalvern 2005-10-24 03:34 pm UTC (link)

You've gone into a lot of detail here, thanks for taking the time to do this. Unfortunately there sometimes is just no 'right' way to translate. That 'Humans are a riot' vs 'Humans are interesting' - the Japanese word there is almost certainly 'omoshiroi' which can mean either interesting or amusing - in Japanese it carries both connotations, but when you're translating, you just have to pick one, and that feels like a really heavy responsibility! I agree that given the look on his face, 'amusing' would be the one to go for in this case, but for someone who's less fluent in one of the languages, it's not always so obvious. Official translators here will have an advantage over scanlators - the opportunity is there for them to read ahead a little and see if anything comes up that will influence their choices (though it's obvious not all official translators take that opportunity!) where fan translators are usually working from the very latest chapters. It gets worse when the author deliberately uses the ambiguities in Japanese derived from omitted words to give a sentence that can be read in two very different ways, both of which apply. All that careful subtlety and punnishness just has to be thrown out as English as you make a choice, and it feels like a dreadful waste of the author's talent. (Reply to this)

akai_senshi 2005-10-25 07:49 pm UTC (link)

Well, this is very interesting. I myself am a translator, and I find myself having to reorder and synonymize Japanese words and sentences to have them make sense in English. And there is an aphorism that I quote often- "If you give 100 different Japanese-English translators a simple text in Japanese, you will get 100 different translations". Japanese isn't like the Romance or Germanic languages- there isn't a nice, neat, exact correspondence that people expect from translation. Translating from Japanese into English is like trying to explain calculus in terms of arithmetic. (Reply to this)

kirimi 2005-10-26 02:51 pm UTC (link)

Hi, I just joined this community today and found your analysis interesting. I have the Japanese tankoubon of vol.1 and have never read any scanlations by any group. When I look at your comparisons, I dug out the corresponding pages in Japanese, and in almost every case, Viz's translation is more accurate than OT's. The minor differences you point out affecting Light's characterisation versus OT's are, in fact, blatantly there in Japanese. Well, in my interpretation anyway. 1. Casual Speech VS Direct Translation Light says: 全部英語か　面倒だな... 面倒 implies something troublesome. Something which requires more effort than he'd have liked. "What a pain," is a good colloqial translation. As for "G8 Summit", I wouldn't blame OT for that error, since the original Japanese DOES say, "Some Developed Country" (某先進国). It is not uncommon for Japanese manga to avoid direct references to real places in a fantasy story. In fact, Viz took the liberty to translate that as the G8 summit. As far as I know, 某先進国 does not mean "G8" in Japanese. 2. Mistranslation and the meaning of *assurance* The word in Japanese is: 自信 (self-confidence) BUT, in that particular panel with Ryuk, he says: ひとつの自信... Ryuk refers specifically to a something which is giving Light this self-confidence, the same thing that Light alludes to in the previous line. So, from the start, the suspense is with regards to what Light has up his sleeve. I am unable to find the same word referred to again in pg 116 and 117, so I can't comment on the rest of your argument. 3. Comparative Ambiguity – "making the world a better place" In Japanese, Light says: 道徳のない人間　人に迷惑をかける人間を　病死や事故死で　少しずつ消していく It is as clear as day (no pun intended), that Light says HE will be the one who is going to kill "immoral people (道徳のない人間), and people who harass others (人に迷惑をかける人間) by illness (病死) or accidents (事故死)". There is no pronoun in the original Japanese because the pronoun is implicitly there. Especially if you read the entire paragraph starting from the panel above where Light begins his speech about how he will create the new order. The verb here is消していく, or "make (them) disappear." In fact, OT's translation is just as accurate if you consider that the sentence you pointed out follows directly from the previous one where Light says, "I cause heart attacks among those who deserve punishment." Like you said, it's not ambiguous at all that Light is the one responsible for everything. Why this facet was left out of your morality discussions is a different story. (to be continued) (Reply to this) (Thread)

kirimi 2005-10-26 02:52 pm UTC (link)

4. Characterisation Ryuk - Personally, I would have preferred the equally neutral and ambiguous "amusing" in English, but maybe Viz's editors didn't like that word. Light and Sayu – Viz's version is more accurate. In Japanese, Light's speech pattern contains mild exasperation (っておまえ自分で理解できたのか?) L and Watari – Again, Viz's version is more accurate. I can't find all the lines that you refer to (please give me page numbers), but of the ones I could: Talking about Watari: Lとコンンタクトを取れるただ一人の男だ　もっとも　ワタリの正体も誰も知らない Literally: L and contact able to only person is. But then, Watari's true person nobody knows too. In proper English: He is the only person who has contact with L. But then, nobody knows who Watari really is either. In no way do they imply that they have contact with L themselves. The agent simply explained who Watari was, based on what he knew. L: とにかく　捜査本部は日本に置いて頂きたい Literally: In any case, investigation headquarters to Japan to move please to request. In proper English: In any case, I request that the investigation headquarters be moved to Japan. Light – regarding his classmate Light says: こんな奴の一人や二人死んでも誰も何も思わない... Literally: This kind of guy (not a compliment), one or two, to die, nobody will think anything of it. In proper English: If one or two guys like him were to die, nobody will think much of it. Light shows absolutely no regard for the life (or lives) he will kill to test the Death Note on. What is more important to him is whether or not he'll get found out. Light - People the world can do without Light says: こうなると　どいつも　こいつも 殺した方が世の中の為になる奴ばかりに見えてくる Literally: This sort of people, here and there, Kill them off, for the good of the world, people like that, (I) only see Translated properly, well, I can't do better than the Viz translators. That's exactly what he says. It's not ambiguous in Japanese at all. 5. Deliberate Changes No comment on the use of god or not. I have no problem with Viz's translation. Sayu says: だからカギ閉めてたの? なんかやらしーっ First, Sayu asks, "Oh, is that why you locked the door?" (Continuing from the previous line when she says, "Are you reading this sort of adult magazines?") Then, she comments, "This is kinda dirty..." The trailing off of her sentence has a question implied, which Viz brings across too. So, Viz is not the one making the changes. OT is. Killing with own hands vs "Me..." In original Japanese: 人を... 二人殺した... 僕が... Literally: Someone... two persons killed... I did... So, Viz's translation is closer to the original. Perhaps OT's may sound more dramatic, but that is a fan translation that over-dramatises a scene that was not in the original Japanese. In both translations, it's putting across the fact that Light is acknowledging his own crimes, which works just as well. But, if it had been the other way round and Viz dramatised the scene when the scanlation did not, would you still prefer it? (ack, I didn't realise this was so long. more...) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - kirimi, 2005-10-26 02:52 pm UTC

(no subject) - sub_divided, 2005-10-28 10:17 pm UTC

(no subject) - kirimi, 2005-11-01 01:48 pm UTC

	akoftroy 2005-10-31 04:31 pm UTC (link)
	Great analysis, Kirimi! Please do one for book 2!!! A very impressive examination of the script. The truth is that the Viz version is pretty much superior in every way EXECPT for the fact that Light wants to..."reign over the new world!" But I will try to get that changed in future books. I just got my copy of book 2, must find free time to read it... (Reply to this)

yellowdancer21 2005-10-31 05:36 pm UTC (link)

Very very interesting. Thank you so much for going to the effort to examine all of this. I started out by reading the VIZ translation and then I couldn't wait for more so I read scanlations of everything else. I suppose I tend to skim translations simply because I realize they can be misleading, so I didn't notice everything you pointed out. The change of "god" references bugs me too. I'm Catholic, but I'm obviously not bugged by Light's god complex or the storyline over all, so I think it's ridiculous. Granted, I'm not your average Christian. I have a far more liberal view of things... In my opinion, being so fearful of being exposed to such cultural differences and other possibilities only reveals your own insecurities. But, I totally understand why Viz had to do it, even if it annoys me. It's a very sensitive topic with most people in the US... I look forward to reading more officially translated Death Note, though! (Reply to this)

acdragonmaster 2005-12-03 06:29 am UTC (link)

Though I haven't read this series, I am very interested in translation and the balance between litteral mean and contextual meaning, so when I saw a friend link to this I figured I'd check it out. This is really very interesting, and does definitely hit on a point that I've argued with people about many times- professional translations may not be as litteral, but they're often more likely to catch on to some of the subtle/technical things that your average fan lacks the language comprehension to notice. Of course, there's still some pet peeves that I personally have with official translations, but it's irritating when people bash them just because they're different from the fans' version. And this is especially relevent to me as I've started getting involved in some scanlating of an older, lesser-known series with friends, and I'm the one doing the bulk of the translation work. I've spent considerable time with a thesaurus before looking up just the right word to express the meaning I'm reading in the Japanese text, and not to mention sitting debating with myself how to handle things like curses uttered by characters in different scenes and contexts. Long story short, there's a lot more going on with the language than most fans are aware. And sometimes, for the sake of telling the story, it's better to try to translate the contextual meaning rather than the litteral one. (Reply to this)

	sui 2005-12-25 08:33 pm UTC (link)
	Great analysis, very interesting. (Reply to this)

hagaren22 2006-03-31 04:00 pm UTC (link)

Very interesting! Once I started reading this, I just couldn't stop! I've worked a proofreader in a manga scanlation team, and most of what you're talking about in fan scans is the responsibility of the proofreader. They make sure the language is more informal than the Japanese, and more natural to English-speakers, while also ensuring as close an adherence as possible to the original Japanese translation. Basically, the better the proofreader, the better the quality of the text and dialog. The thing about being on a non-profit scanlation team made up of fans is that you really, really try to keep things close to the original language, while Viz, a professional organization, has an ability to vary things. I prefer translations closer to what they were meant to be, but the Viz translations do make it easier for most English-speaking fans to relate to the story. I guess it's just opinion, really. :/ (Reply to this) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2006-09-05 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	Go Fuck yourself (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2006-09-05 10:57 pm UTC (link)
	VIZ IS A HELL OF ALOT BETTER THAN THOSE OT FUCKERS!!!!! (Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous) 2007-04-10 07:48 am UTC (link)

Totally out of place.... Anyway! Great review! I`m actually reading the ot version since the official is not available in my country, but I think both versions have something to add. For example, normally you`d have to wait a year or two (or more) to read the manga, but with scanlators you can get it two or three days after the release in Japan. Isn`t that great? I mean, if it wasn`t because of the internet releases I would`ve never heard of the manga (which is incredibly spectacular) and could not enjoy it... But when it becomes available in one`s country it`s like an obligation towards the mangaka to but the oficial (I`m doing that right now with mermelade boy, though I read the scanlations three years ago)Do I make my pointy clear? Scanlations are there for people who otherwise wouldn`t be able to enjoy it. Oficial`s ones are always going to have better stuff (this does not by any means means I approve censorship or that stupid thing viz has with gods and religion), they are made buy pros- the scanlations are usually made by people who have to attend school or work and do that just for the pleasure of sharing something they like and can understand with the rest and I feel very grateful towards them. It`s a lot of work scanlating in your spare time (for FREE). Ok, since I have repeated my point of view over and over now, I`ll stop. If you have any comments or something you can mail me ( violefellay@gmail.com ). Congrats on the review. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ryowazamono 2006-12-14 01:11 pm UTC (link)
	Fuck viz anda Panini....fan are BEST! (Reply to this)

---

(66 comments) - (Post a new comment)