highelfmage ([info]highelfmage) wrote in [info]madisonwi,
@ 2005-05-19 19:37:00
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Current mood: curious

Wondering about Epic Systems
Hey all!

I'm new to this group, but I was wondering if anyone has much knowledge of Epic Systems. I recently graduated CS, and they want me to come out to interview for a programmer position. I like what I've heard (casual atmosphere, etc) but that's mostly been through Epic's handouts. Anyone have any knowledge of how programmers are treated there? I'm always worried about excessive hours with any programming job (I like keeping my Saturdays as much as possible).

Thanks in advance! Perhaps I'll be physically joining some of you folks soon.


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[info]madolan
2005-05-19 11:50 pm UTC (link)
This was discussed here a while back. It's a pretty good mix of the pro-Epic people (me) the bitter-from-experience people, (who will no doubt be happy to offer their opinions again), and the people who think they know all about it though they've never worked here.

You will work some Saturdays, particularly around major deadlines. That's one thing that still chafes, even two years in: too often the amount of hours worked is mistaken for devotion or ability. But in a casual and creative environment, at least I don't mind long weeks. I'm pretty happy there.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]angrybunnyman
2005-05-20 12:24 pm UTC (link)
Ditto this, though I generally put in longer nights so that I can keep my weekend open near to deadlines.

I'll also ditto the problematic equation that long hour = high quality work.

However, I have only been there a year working QA. I have yet to put too many projects on my plate. Though, my Team Lead (Boss) works longer days so she rarely comes in on weekends as well. So long as the work gets done...

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Basically it comes down to this: - (Anonymous), 2006-08-18 09:12 pm UTC
Interview in Epic Systems and salary - (Anonymous), 2006-10-04 07:40 pm UTC

[info]cognative
2005-05-19 11:53 pm UTC (link)
I don't have first hand knowledge, but I do know a few people who work there. I've mostly heard good things from them and I don't think they'd say they're overworked.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]carissarunal
2008-07-17 11:35 am UTC (link)
But that must be a huge cover up, because FSS should let people who don’t have the facts, first hand knowledge, or even second hand knowledge debate what’s really going on.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Thanks!
[info]highelfmage
2005-05-20 12:02 am UTC (link)
I Googled LJ but didn't find that post for whatever reason. Very interesting thread. I'm not totally opposed to working some OT, but I have no desire to end up like the poor slaves over at EA.

Thanks again, and let me know if anyone has more insight. Looks like I still may have a long haul ahead of me.

(Reply to this)

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]cognative
2005-05-20 12:45 am UTC (link)
I got one of those last time I was in Minnesota. Much better than The New Whizzinator :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Piss test - (Anonymous), 2006-11-17 05:14 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]nulldevice
2005-05-20 12:38 am UTC (link)
If you're a CS grad, you may be disappointed. They lag quite a bit in terms of programming tehcnology - most of their products are still based around Visual Basic 6 and a "Post-relational" database called "Cache" which is evolved from VAX MUMPS. From what I'm told by the programmers they're slowly moving to Microsoft .NET but it's going to be a long slog for that -they're already a few revisions behind and have most of their resources allocated to maintaining and supporting existing systems. So if you're hot out of school and are looking for a job where you can leverage your background in Object Oriented design or relational databases...look elsewhere. On the other hand they're a stable, casual, friendly company without a huge amount of administrative infrastructure, like a lot of the big employers in town. Unlike an AmFam you won't be another business-casual drone.

Mixed blessings, as with any jobs.

(Reply to this)


[info]viktorcello
2005-05-20 12:44 am UTC (link)
No! No! They are the devil! People get sucked into there and become totally arrogant and they change! And they really eff with you throughout the interview process, which takes like three months. And they make you work overtime all the time.

But up to you.

(Reply to this)


[info]cybernorris
2005-05-20 01:20 am UTC (link)
If you know java, there's a huge market for java programmers. A couple of other places to consider programming... Electronic Theatre Controls, Weather Central or Avid (local office does newsroom systems) . If you'd be interested in contract work, check with Adtec IT .. tell Jeff Grady that Norris sent you.

(Reply to this)


[info]wakakhan
2005-05-20 01:39 am UTC (link)
I just started at Epic, and I totally love it. It's definitely long hours, but I get to wear my Adidas to work and travel all over the place, so who's complaining? It's casual and non-hierarchical like no other place I've seen. Previous comments about devoting alot of programmers' time to tweaking existing (VB) products are true; most of the software has been developed over a 20-year period and has picked up some dust over all those years. But it's a fun place to work and the emphasis is really on employee and customer satisfaction (no shareholders). I'd just say give it serious consideration.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
2006-08-18 09:22 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like someone who "just started at Epic"....

Wearing Adidas to work is cool at first but I prefer career development and cash.

Non-hierarchical? You mean you don't have a manager who does your performance reviews? you don't have team leads you give you work? you don't have CEO, CFO, President and all the rest of brown nosers?
Epic says non-hierarchical and no titles, but that doesn't mean there is no distribution of power and responsibility.

You know what other software language that has been developerd over a 20+ year period? FORTRAN and BASIC... you like working with 20+ yo technology?

No Shareholders??? What you think Epic is some non-corporate entity? It is not public, so public doesn't own Epic, but plenty of shares are owned by individuals who are not Epic employees. Search around and you will see list of people who OWN Epic. They are the owns with voting power just like in a public company's large shareholders....

Fun wears off as soon as you are done with your certifications when you actually have to face the truth that Epic sucks.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Look below. - (Anonymous), 2006-11-17 05:18 am UTC
Re: Look below. - (Anonymous), 2007-04-11 01:40 am UTC

[info]scrapdog
2005-05-20 02:10 am UTC (link)
If you are looking for a programming position elsewhere, check out the post I recently made in [info]cityofmilwaukee.

(Reply to this)


[info]miraidebbie
2005-05-20 07:56 am UTC (link)
Epic does the computer system for the Dean clinics in the area. While testing their software they accidentally faxed bogus prescriptions to the pharmacy where I work and we filled at least one and gave it to a patient. (There was no indication it was a fake prescription... real doctor, patient, drug, etc) Luckily it was a drug she was already taking and she kept taking it per the original directions she was on. Good thing, since you shouldn't all of a sudden triple your dose of zoloft.

Yeah, they never took the two seconds to send another fax saying they messed up or call us or anything. We only found out when this one patient realized the directions on her bottle were way off and we started digging. Needless to say, people all up our chain of command are royally pissed with Epic. I was thinking of applying there since I have an engineering degree, but this incident made me say hell no.

From a pharmacy standpoint we hate them because we get lots of prescriptions that make no sense, but a lot of that is probably clinic staff not entering things correctly. But the fake prescription thing pisses me off to no end. So if you decide to work there I hope you keep in mind that little blips in testing the system can result in someone getting the wrong medication and hell if it had been someone who didn't check what they were taking it could have killed them. There are apparently enough people working there who don't think about things like this.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
2005-06-23 07:00 pm UTC (link)
I really should get involved in this, but Epic doesn't have an outpatient pharmacy product. The label in question probably didn't actually use an Epic interface.

As far as not caring goes, I and everyone I work with take our job very, very seriously. I spend several hours just yesterday helping a nurse who had accidentally given a medication twice while learning to use Epic. You are correct - accidents do happen. However, please don't think for a second that people at Epic don't care about the patients who receive their health care via Epic software. Sometimes we work 60-hour weeks. Why? Because we know that doing a good job matters.

--Alex

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Epic
(Anonymous)
2005-05-20 12:41 pm UTC (link)
I've interviewed programmers who want to leave or have left Epic - mostly they were burnout cases. Expect 60 hours/week or so. Also expect to be kind of "thrown in" to things without a lot of support.

They hire a lot from overseas (India mostly). Other than that, they prefer to hire people right out of school so they don't have to "retrain" them. They pay OK for developers, I think sometimes too good, because then it can be hard to leave for another job.

They don't seem to hire smokers, non-young people, or people who are visually unhealthy-looking. You have to take a programming test and other tests in the interview process. They like a strong knowledge of C (although they don't use it at Epic, they use it as an indicator of how good a programmer you are).

The development work is in Cache and Visual Basic (6.0) mostly. Cache is pretty cool (it is based on an older technology called MUMPS or M). It's mostly only used in the medical industry here in the US (it's the basis for Epic, IDX, and the VA medical computer systems). It rocks in many respects (efficiency, speed, storage), and its fun to work with, but it's not a skill that will take you into a lot of other industries or companies.

The Epic environment is pretty casual, and there are some nice perks there. They are building a new development out in Verona, where they expect to move in the future. It sounds really nice, but at the moment their employees are scattered around a half-dozen or so buildings on the west/near west side of town.

There was a length article about Epic in the Madison papers a few months back - talked about the company direction, their new site in Verona, the woman who owns/runs the company, the environment, and hiring. You might check out the archives on Madison.com - I think it was in the Wisconsin State Journal.

Good luck! If you want to learn more about cache before you interview or decide to interview, check out http://www.intersystems.com/cache/index.html

(Reply to this)


[info]salisbury
2005-05-23 03:43 pm UTC (link)
Since you specifically mention not wanting excessive hours, stay the hell away from Epic. They openly expect at *least* a 50 hour week.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
salary range
(Anonymous)
2005-06-21 12:37 pm UTC (link)
I'm a software developer with mostly visual basic and java skills who makes around 60k a year. I'm interested in applying at epic but only if I was pretty sure that I could make at least 70k because of the long hours they expect. Any idea if I should even bother applying?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: salary range - (Anonymous), 2005-06-23 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-23 07:06 pm UTC
Truth about Epic
(Anonymous)
2005-07-22 01:10 am UTC (link)
Work at Epic only if you have no other option.

Salary: industry average. 50-55k for undergrad programmers, 60-65k for those with masters. TS get 45k for people with masters. Bonus 1-5k/year. salary increase around inflation. top 30-40 peopel make 6figures and everyone else even high middle managers make at or below industry average.

Programmer treatment: programmers are king at a small software company likewise at Epic. programmers make the most money and have the most power...everyone else is just "support"

Culture: startup like...you work like dogs.

Reputation: self asserted one meaning you have to try to convince others how good Epic is. CEO doesn't believe in marketing + Epic is private, so Epic has zero name value which is very important especially newly grads because your next employer will rate your experience mainly from reputation of the company.

Benefits: industry average or below. They give you all this worthless paper awards that makes you want to scream "just give me $100 instead"
For healthcare software company, they don't give you 100% healthcare coverage. No more stock OPTIONS.free pizza is usually the cheapest around. free drinks dont' apply to soda.

Stock options: they will say their stock increases faster than MSFT, but who cares when they give you like 10 stocks. worthless.

Leadership: chaotic. Senior management lacks management skills & charisma. CEO is ex-nerd type not harvard MBA type. managers are long term employees who got their because of seniority not because they were good managers elsewhere or have top notch MBAs.

Programmer specific: lack of proper documentation because of fast development cycle and no time to fix bugs.

Technology: Cache and VB6. mostly proprietary Cache based database. Your experience will be useless elsewhere.

Location: Madison soon to be changed to Verona. Ok if you have family, sucks if you are young and single.

Dress code: people dress like homeless and are proud of their lack of fashion sense. Pretty soon your wardrobe will consist of a lot of crap. This reflects on your professionalism.

People: mostly from around Wisconsin who grew up in Wisconsin or went to school in Wisconsin. A LOT of Dorks and nerdy star trek types and they will be proud to showcase their dorkiness. A LOT of ex-foreign graduate students who have lived in US only 2-3 years of their life....when they become team leaders they manage like their homeland not US style management, so you get long hours all the time. Most people didn't get a top notch education....most are from crappy no name schools, especially management because who works for Epic in Madison back in hot dot com days? Answer: bottom of the rung dorks who couldn't get jobs at hot dot coms. Now they are in management position. Be prepared to work under them and deal with mismanagement.

Happiness breakdown: testers and QAers are happy because they get paid OK for their non-technical degree. implementors very unhappy because they were sucked in as for position in "project management" but it is really installing complicated Epic Systems software all over hospitals (travel Mon-Thu) Software developers become more unhappy more they stay. And their peers get raises and promotions into senior programmers, Epic doesn't have titles and poor raises for programmers.

Conclusion: unless you wish to work for Epic for at least 15 years, don't go waste your time there tring to gain experience, because Epic's experience CANNOT be used as a career stepping stone due to proprietary (old low tech) database.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Truth about Epic
(Anonymous)
2005-08-20 01:56 am UTC (link)
Some of this is true. Definitely not the salary part. Epic pays pretty well compared to other companies that I have worked for/interviewed with. This guy must not have had very good grades. Grades in school are a big part of how Epic determines your salary. I am TS with an undergrad degree with good grades, and they started me out in the upper 50s plus a 5K bonus. (I grossed more than 60K my first year!)

The benefits are also pretty good. 401k with company match. No stock options, but they do grant valuable stock rights to ALL employees. Good health insurance, too.

Sounds like this guy just kinda sucks at his job, so he is bitter at his employer, Epic. Despite occasional long hours, Epic is a very cool place to work. These days, you should just be thankful you have a job if you are in a technical field.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2005-09-14 04:07 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2006-08-18 09:00 pm UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2006-09-06 03:06 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 04:18 pm UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2006-11-18 12:31 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2007-04-11 01:43 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2007-08-31 05:53 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2007-11-06 08:16 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2008-09-01 07:20 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2006-11-17 02:21 am UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2007-05-15 06:02 pm UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2008-01-10 11:32 pm UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2008-01-10 11:43 pm UTC
Re: Truth about Epic - (Anonymous), 2008-01-11 08:36 pm UTC
Epic Sucks (From a customer stand point)
(Anonymous)
2006-07-11 03:29 am UTC (link)
Ok, bite me but the TS folks at Epic .. SUCK! I really mean it. I really like the product, has endless possibilities but all the TS people I have worked with, know jack shit. You have to do everything on your own and tell them repeatedly that hey, you are doing this wrong, that is wrong and all that comes out of it 'I have documented that for future release'. Geez, I recall someone with the name Barb P. (a.k.a major psycho is what we call her). Get a life TS people.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Epic Sucks (From all standpoints)
(Anonymous)
2006-07-18 12:17 am UTC (link)
I left Epic years ago and have received more in raises in my new job than my entire Epic salary. I now make 3x what I made at Epic. The 401K is absolutely horrible with a cap of 3K annually. That caps anyone with a 6 figure salary which any decent developer should make (but not at Epic!). The stock 'options' are not options at all. You are given the right to purchase shares at a given price which management sets. You have to fork over your own money which I have never seen in any other options program. So to get 40K in options you have to pay in 40K and hope it grows. You would be much better at an Intel, MS, IBM, or some other name firm that knows how to define options. The technology is a complete joke and useless in the real world. If you think Java isn't a sellable skill, try selling VB! Cache can be written with a monkey's level of intelligence. Basically there is nothing hard about anything Epic does and the skills developed are largely useless. If you are worth your salt, get into some programming where you develop skills with multi-threading, synchronization, etc. not this pansy ass VB OOC. Honestly, how much skill does it take to put a button on a form and code the 'click event'?

If you are happy with 60K and a CS degree of any sort, you must have sucked in school or lack ambition. You can get a real job, put in 70 hours a week and make 150K or slog along at a pathetic company like Epic.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: Epic Sucks (From a customer stand point) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-18 09:04 pm UTC
Re: Epic Sucks (From a customer stand point) - (Anonymous), 2007-07-12 04:05 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-19 05:18 am UTC (link)
The pay hasn't been bad at all (for starting) and decent benefits. They do work people hard, fifty hours a week on average. I question calling the experience at the company "useless". The language may not be used a lot but the core concepts and work experience have definite merit.

I don't get the problem with post-relational data structures. It might not be common but the organization is pretty damn good.

Epic isn't for everyone. I'm just glad to have a job in this economy. If Epic doesn't work for me I may take the money I saved and go back to school for additional material or an MBA. Or I might look for another job.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Epic Vet
(Anonymous)
2006-09-08 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Okay...I was an Epic "veteran" for four years before I'd had it with the culture and workload. Most of the negative comments in these responses are all too true. I will say that I learned a lot working there....about how not to do things. Valuable stuff and it made me a wiser IT professional.

COO is a dirt-bag (will say and promise anything to make a sale). President is the Howard Hughes of the industry. Ask her about how she spent about 1 hour...no kidding here...debating with the company at a monthly meeting about the value of plastic utencils vs metal. Or how she'd burnt her corneas in her office by shooting a laser pointer at an emerald ring. Un-friggin-be-lieveable.

I've actually moved on the years since to having a gratifying family life and successful IT career...and most places I go will ask me (when they've seen my resume) whether I'm "one of those Epic burn-outs".

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Epic Vet - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 05:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 04:31 pm UTC
RUN AWAY!!!
(Anonymous)
2006-09-27 05:46 pm UTC (link)
Epic is good as a short-term stay. You can use their 6month training period to cruise at work while getting paid full salary and looking for a job. It starts to suck once you start working. I don't know...some seem to like it more than others, but those people have joined epic long long time ago when they had preferred stocks which are worth quite a bit now. Right now, epic just treats their employees as just another drone. Here is a little test to see if you will like Epic or not?

1) Do you like living in small cities, specifically Madison/Verona?
2) Do you like befriending sort of nerdy dorky types?
3) Do you like Cache language?
4) Do you like medium size companies?
5) Do you like to work with Indians (mostly vegetarians) and other foreigners who have been in US only 2 years (most do not know/care about American interests like football)?
6) Do you like to work a lot of hours on programming projects in general?
7) Do you prefer job security over career growth?
8) Do you like healthcare industry which is sort of like the government...lots of regulations, slow to adapt new technology, massive systems, etc.?
9) Do you like working with average people who are diligent but not outright smart or talented
10) Do you like high state income tax and high property tax?

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: RUN AWAY!!!
(Anonymous)
2006-11-15 02:50 am UTC (link)
Madison/Verona are small cities?? I guess you must be from like NYC or something.

And what is with the "nerdy dorky" types comments. I've got news for you. Unless you worked in the kitchen or something at Epic, and never looked at a computer screen, you ARE a nerd. I mean, "nerd" is a juvenile term meaning "not in the popular jock crowd", and generally is not applied to adults. Maybe you left Epic to go work in the NBA or NFL?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2007-04-11 12:24 am UTC
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2006-11-26 05:40 am UTC
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2007-04-11 12:36 am UTC
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2006-11-26 05:41 am UTC
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2007-04-11 12:45 am UTC
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2008-01-10 11:40 pm UTC
Re: RUN AWAY!!! - (Anonymous), 2008-08-04 12:52 am UTC
First Impression
(Anonymous)
2006-09-27 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Epic seems like a cool place to work,lots of smart people and the "wear clothes when customers are around" policy,vey enticing. I just interviewed with them and the process when well. Their assemenet wasn't that bad but after working with classes and prebuild fuctions you get rusty. I don't think their are going to hire me if they take that test seriously. I have a high GPA, above 3.7 in my major and I am pretty smart but the thing is I'm not the nerd type. After reading all comments below, you guys do raise some interesting points. However working over 50 a week not that bad if you make over 70K. I was told that there are moving there code over to .Net and there exsist a few web apps. Just land your self on the right team and your market skills should be transferable.

Question:( For employee)
How import a factor is the skills test, lets say I did ok on the Math and 20 Q. However was not 2 strong on the 5 alogrithm?

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: First Impression
(Anonymous)
2006-09-27 10:29 pm UTC (link)
If you have an offer of 70K+ good for you. I know MS in CS from UW were typically offered 60-65K or even lower. Take a job in the Silicon Valley and you will start 80-90K with upward mobility toward 200K.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: First Impression - (Anonymous), 2006-09-28 01:39 am UTC
Re: First Impression - (Anonymous), 2006-09-29 10:05 pm UTC
Re: First Impression - (Anonymous), 2006-09-29 10:06 pm UTC
Re: First Impression - (Anonymous), 2008-08-04 12:55 am UTC
Dark Clouds at Kaiser Permenante
(Anonymous)
2006-11-21 03:36 pm UTC (link)
From Zach Mortensen:

\\\"No doubt you\\\'ve read the news: A 25-year-old Kaiser employee named Justen Deal has blown the whistle on the HMO\\\'s multi-billion-dollar implementation of HealthConnect, Kaiser\\\'s in-house name for the product suite provided by Epic Systems Corporation of Verona, WI. ... \\\"

Healthconnect and scaling problems. I also hear there was a massive document from Kaiser leaked going over the issues they encountered with Epic. (A $4billion system)

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Dark Clouds at Kaiser Permenante
(Anonymous)
2006-11-21 03:40 pm UTC (link)
More problems - ComputerWorld had a November 13 article about the leaked documents and problems with Epic at Kaiser.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: Dark Clouds at Kaiser Permenante - (Anonymous), 2006-11-26 05:33 am UTC
Re: Dark Clouds at Kaiser Permenante - (Anonymous), 2006-11-29 04:08 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-12-26 05:00 am UTC (link)
Well, looking through all these posts and actively seeking jobs, since i am from Madison, i did some research. i spoke with some employees and ex-employees. I got a mixed response:

good:
- easy work, good pay, flexible workstyle
- lots of travel included for certain roles
- it doesnt matter what you did or know, it only matters what you can do - when you work there.
- varied programming mix - VB?, .NET, C/C++, Web, Mumps, Java etc.. (but 75% mumps)
- "if you are underqualified, then its the best place" - its like taking a course inside and learning.
- stable job and income source - some employees who were previously bartenders and drivers are happy (obviously)
- ideal place if you are married, have kids and plan to settle in Madison - work style is such flexible

bad:
- flat organization structure, private and no unions.
- work says 40hr/wk but usually its 55hr+ (and no you dont get compensated for extra hours)
- dont matter if you did MS or Ph.D, they require only max BS.
- some immigrants complained that they do only EB3 and not EB2 (even if you qualify) - they feel that this is a tactic to prolong their stay there, but company says that it coz the job description doesnt require MS (thus no EB2).
- what work you do there is mostly not useful in other tech companies since not many outside banking and healthcare use mumps language.
- "if you are overqualified, then you are screwing youself" - 1 comment
- you can get paged/called even when on vacation or during night/weekends
- salaries are negotiated with employees during hiring interview call
- ex-employees said they mainly left due to they feeling less appreciated and being overworked, some youngers ones saying "no future"

many people i spoke with wanted to leave when they get a "chance". based on all there it sounds like its a place to maybe work for an year or two just to make some dough and leave - not worth settling there or rotting yourself there. most people sounded like they got in by mistake or just wanted a break from other job and want to leave, some wanted to stay on just for the pay and non-tech work (albeit ridiculous hours). some immigrants just were in for H1 and GC; some left inspite of H1/GC and some are stuck for next couple of years due to the current GC process.

rest upto you to decide.

(Reply to this)

Golden Advice
(Anonymous)
2007-04-11 12:51 am UTC (link)
For all the young programmers and techies out there:

I see my years toiling away at Epic as a huge career mistake. Please listen to my advice and don't join Evil Systems.

First few years are critical in forming your career path. Ask yourself this one final question:

"After 5 years at Epic, where can you take your Mumps programming experience?"

The answer is simple. NOWHERE. You will have to start from bottom again and learn a more mainstream technology elsewhere, that is if you can make the leap. It doesn't matter how many promotions you get. You are a Mumps programmer and that is as good as saying you are a COBAL programmer. Your hard earned experience (oh the slave drivers at Epic will get the hours out of you) are WORTHLESS!

You're welcome:)

(Reply to this) (Thread)
"After 5 years at Epic, where can you take your Mumps programming experience?"
(Anonymous)
2008-08-04 12:58 am UTC (link)
SO TRUE....

WASTED YEARS OF MY LIFE IN THAT SH!THOLE

MUMPS PROGRAMMER = COBOL PROGRAMMER

Let $10/hr Indians in India do it. Even Indian programmers on H1B doesn't want to touch that with a 12 foot pole.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: Golden Advice - (Anonymous), 2009-02-05 12:49 am UTC
WORST COMPANY EVER!!!!
(Anonymous)
2007-04-11 12:56 am UTC (link)
I've interned at Microsoft and other well established companies, yet I joined Epic because of nice sounding title PROJECT MANAGER....wow..what a bait and switch they did on me. I don't manage anything. In fact, all I do is install this archaic POS while traveling like a madman.

I'm looking to leave ASAP, but it is hard...."You worked at Epic? where? I've never heard of it"

--Depressed in Madison

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: WORST COMPANY EVER!!!!
(Anonymous)
2007-05-28 12:52 am UTC (link)
Oh, quit your crying. If your background was as impressive as you lead us to believe, you wouldn't be IS. If you aren't managing a project, you must not be very good at your job and haven't made it up the ranks.

To all of you complainers out there, find a job worth having that doesn't include some longer days on occasion. If you say you are averaging more than 50 hours a week or real work, then you are lying or need to learn to use the phrase, "Sorry, but I don't have time to take on an additional project at this time."

(Reply to this) (Parent)
EPIC SUCKS
(Anonymous)
2007-04-11 12:58 am UTC (link)
You want free soda? Why don't you work for me this weekend on some BS, and I'll give you all the soda you can drink, SUCKER!!!!

hahaha

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: EPIC SUCKS.....ever watch OFFICE SPACE
(Anonymous)
2008-08-04 12:59 am UTC (link)
10X worse....instead of some wierd old boss, your boss at Epic can barely speak English, CEO is retarded ugly b!tch, and your coworkers are all there for the green card.

WOW, sounds like a good place to work doesn't it :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)
more dirty laundry
(Anonymous)
2007-04-11 01:08 am UTC (link)
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/599009962631/m/806009655731?r=276006093831#276006093831

(Reply to this)

Working at Epic Systems in Madison...
(Anonymous)
2007-04-11 01:12 am UTC (link)
I'll start with the only reasonable (IMHO) conclusion that can be drawn: friends don't let friends work for Epic Systems.

I'm a former Epic employee ...observations about the organization. I am a non-techie professional with 15 years tech sector

I sued the company for discrimination and misrepresentation. At that time, he had successfully prosecuted more than 23 cases against Epic, all settled out of court (as was my case)


1. Epic likes 'em young and stupid (okay, naive) - Most new hires, average age 26, come straight out of college or have held only one job post-graduation. They don't know what the real working world expects from employees in terms of salary, performance, hours worked, etc. (More related info follows.)

2. Epic doesn't hire locally (Wisconsin)- They have to preserve their local reputation by making sure the truth about their abusive practices doesn't get out. If you're a UW grad, look elsewhere.

3. Epic doesn't hire locally (US) - Think indentured servitude doesn't exist any more? More than 60 percent of all Epic new hires are in this country on H1B (employment) visas obtained by Epic courtesy of their staff attorneys. Most are from China and India. They are required to sign a contract stating that they, the employee, will work for Epic for five years and remain in good standing or face repaying the legal fees Epic incurred paying for the H1B. In my observations, those fees total between $25,000 and $75,000 depending on the billing structure ($300 an hour is common), nature of the work performed, and the applicant's situation or standing. Do you think any immigrant from Tamil Nadu is going to jeopardize his or her employment before their obligation has been satisfied? Not when it takes 50 rupees to equal a dollar.

3. Epic practices legal discrimination - Being a privately held company, they escape scrutiny from those who provide oversight to prevent abuses. When I complained to the HR director about the singular treatment I received from my supervisor, she suggested I could take my case to founder/president Judy Faulkner. She then advised me that my employment was likely to end if I did so because Judy and my supervisor were close friends. Under federal and Wisconsin employment law, this is known as retaliation, and is strictly prohibited.

4. Epic practices illegal discrimination - Despite the hiring of foreign nationals, Epic doesn't hire minorities and discriminates according to age. When I left, only one out of 1200 employees could be considered African-American, and she was bi-racial. She was a receptionist at that. There were no Hispanic Americans on staff. As of then, no one hired after the age of 40 had lasted more than 2 years, unless they were recruited by Judy. There were no employees with visible physical impairments. If you were foolish enough to advise your supervisor that you had been diagnosed with clinical depression (caused by work there, in all likelihood) be prepared for incremental probation leading to termination.

5. Epic pays below market - Salaries are 5 to 15 percent below what the regional market pays for similar roles and titles. When calculated on an hourly basis, my pay was equal to or less than the wage earned by cashiers in my local grocery. (See item 6.)

6. Epic is an electronic sweatshop - Once you've worked a 60-hour week, you'll always be expected to work 80. If you work on Saturday, be prepared to give up Sundays as well. If you don't do either, don't expect to last more than six months.

7. Epic uses dishonest tactics in the marketplace - Corporate espionage, as confessed by the perpetrator to me directly, landed the billion-dollar Kaiser deal. Cerner Corp, Epic's "evil empire" competitor, axed the top third of their senior marketing staff for falling victim to it. All this from a company that touts its ethics.



FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WORK FOR EPIC!

Your friend,

Dr. Abner Mality, SPFP

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Working at Epic Systems in Madison...
(Anonymous)
2007-04-26 02:51 pm UTC (link)
I work at Epic and believe I know who wrote this. I don’t want to spend the time and energy responding to every item in this post; they range from wrong to ridiculous. Here are some of the facts: Epic has had 2 employment claims in 27 years, and has not lost any. In terms of hiring people locally, 40% hired in the last year lived in the Madison area, so there is a strong local presence at the company. Only 5% in the company are on visas, not the 60% quoted by this former employee. Not only does Epic never ask for reimbursement for H filings, it’s expressly prohibited as part of the Immigration and Naturalization Act. Epic does ask that people in the Green Card process reimburse a percentage of those costs if they choose to leave within 3 years of their hire date, and Green Card fees tend to range from $3,500–5,000. The comments about the HR Director’s response to this person’s complaints are simply absurd. The end of the Philips/Epic partnership was actually initiated by Philips.

While I prefer not to join these threads, it’s frustrating to read a post so filled with inaccuracies. I’ve been at Epic for quite a while, I’ve recommended friends and family to work here, and I firmly believe it’s a good company.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Working at Epic Systems in Madison...sucks - (Anonymous), 2008-08-04 01:02 am UTC
Really? I just got turned down for a job I was more than qualified for - (Anonymous), 2009-05-27 11:18 pm UTC
Re: Working at Epic Systems in Madison... - (Anonymous), 2007-05-28 12:58 am UTC
Re: Working at Epic Systems in Madison... - (Anonymous), 2008-01-10 11:38 pm UTC
I went to Epic's Big meeting once...and someone got fired for challenging the CEO
(Anonymous)
2007-04-11 01:23 am UTC (link)
CEO is a nazi. SHE looks like Howard Stern!

Judge her by her actions not empty cheap promises:
Employees wanted childcare and gym in their $300 mm campus. Why not right? Plus it is middle of NOWHERE in Verona with population 10,000?. You'd have to drive 20 min in the dark middle of the FARMLAND to get anywhere. All that money saved to relocate to a farmland and you can't spend any money in gym or childcare?????

One time at their "movie theater" group meeting, one brave soul spoke on this issue directly to the CEO in front of group. Her sichophants defended the decision, and the guy was fired. THINK ABOUT THAT.

SMART PEOPLE HAVE JUMPED SHIP OR JUMPING SHIP. You have been warned.


(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: I went to Epic's Big meeting once...and someone got fired for challenging the CEO
(Anonymous)
2007-05-28 12:55 am UTC (link)
Yet another blogger who is full of cr@p. Nobody gets fired for disagreements with the CEO. Get a life.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: I went to Epic's Big meeting once...and someone got fired for challenging the CEO - (Anonymous), 2007-10-24 09:02 am UTC
Re: I went to Epic's Big meeting once...and someone got fired for challenging the CEO - (Anonymous), 2008-08-04 01:05 am UTC
Re: I went to Epic's Big meeting once...and someone got fired for challenging the CEO - (Anonymous), 2008-01-10 11:37 pm UTC

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