Charmian ([info]worldserpent) wrote in [info]ljspeaks,
@ 2007-12-10 09:51:00
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Entry tags:sup, visitor logging

SUP's latest visitors feature
On the SUP version of LJ, you can see which LJ users have visited your LJ. (links in Russian) SUP users can see this at: http://www.livejournal.ru/counter#journal-stat if they log in.

http://community.livejournal.com/sup_ru/298432.html (talking about the feature)

http://community.livejournal.com/sup_ru/300270.html (announcing a future opt-out)

In the future SUP users will be able to opt out of this service. In this case, they will no longer be able to see the last hundred users to visit their journal, but they will no longer show up on other people's lists. (this is based on what a Russian user I was talking to said. I don't speak Russian and welcome any clarification or further details.)

However, I talked to two people who said that non-SUP users show up in these lists. I am not an SUP user, but an SUP user I was talking to said I showed up in their statistics after I visited their journal. I am concerned over this development, because I was not informed of this fact. Will non-SUP users be given a chance to opt out? (can any other SUP users provide further confirmation/screencaps, if possible?)

In the meantime, you can avoid being logged by logging out, or using another journal.


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[info]camomiletea
2007-12-10 01:05 am UTC (link)
Will non-SUP users be given a chance to opt out?

Yes, they will. I don't have any details, but this whole thing is planned for the rest of LJ also, although naturally they will have to do it carefully for the larger LJ population. The Russians more or less wanted this feature, have been clamoring for it, and many were using third party counters, some of which could tell the usernames of viewers already. (I tried that counter once, when I got a negative publicity among Russian LJ and wanted to see who visited my journal; but afterwards I stopped.) While on the rest of LJ there are people who want it, there are also those who are dead against it.

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[info]imaria
2007-12-10 01:06 am UTC (link)
Do you remember where you heard that?

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[info]camomiletea
2007-12-10 01:15 am UTC (link)
The news in sup_ru kind of implies it: "пока только русскоязычные, sup" == "so far only russian-speaking, sup". That "so far" means that in future others will get it too. Also I spoke with [info]jemmix who works for SUP as a technical support representative... but I probably can't tell you anything about it, since I'm under NDA. I'm just hoping that there's no panic until there is actually something to panic about. :x SUP is aware of the problems and will be working this out... Hopefully!

Edited at 2007-12-10 01:20 am UTC

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[info]imaria
2007-12-10 01:46 am UTC (link)
Ahh, NDAs. Terrible creatures ;]

It would probably be prudent to inform any of your sources that LJ is about to start panicking soon, and an official reply would be effective in warding that off. Even an [info]theljstaff comment here would be something to point to.

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[info]janinedog
2007-12-10 02:02 am UTC (link)
I'm an engineer on LiveJournal, so I can't promise anything in terms of official posts and such (I'm not in charge of that stuff)...but I'll definitely be sure to bring up the issue to the team next week.

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[info]imaria
2007-12-10 02:05 am UTC (link)
I highly, highly appreciate it. I understand that you can't promise us the world, but what you can do is appreciated.

Welcome to the community!

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[info]janinedog
2007-12-10 05:09 am UTC (link)
Thanks. :)

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[info]sqrfruit
2007-12-10 03:38 am UTC (link)
Thanks for bringing the issue forward to the rest of the staff. This is exactly the kind of surprise many users despise. Having such a feature being opt-in instead of opt-out would make the implementation go over smoother.

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[info]hakeber
2007-12-11 12:17 am UTC (link)
That would be greatly appreciated. We realize that that is all you can do, but it's a start.

Now if only someone could convince the powers-that-be that the fan groups handle things better if they're wooed a bit, as opposed to ignored.

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[info]canis_ridens
2007-12-12 02:37 am UTC (link)
Thank you for bringing this up. The feature might not seem like a big deal, but I've noticed that a lot of people don't truly appreciate that what they post publicly on the Internet is posted, well, publicly on the Internet. I've seen a lot of freaking out and accusations of stalking just from LJToys IP data. On the readers' end, think about it- how many people keep tabs on exes, personal enemies, relatives, bosses, employees, etc. via their blogs? A number of people aren't going to be completely unabashed about doing so, and removing that casual anonymity, even if it can be regained with the simple click of a button, is likely to get many of them quite upset. In short, large numbers of posters and readers would end up feeling that their privacy had been violated (if for different reasons). It would bring about the Dramapocalypse.

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[info]worldserpent
2007-12-10 01:11 am UTC (link)
Oh, good. However, I think they really should have told us non-SUP users about the existence of this new feature.

I don't mind this feature existing (I use mixi, where this feature exists), but I would like it to be upfront and known to the user that it exists. There are some people who are SUP users and do have English language LJs that are visited by non-SUP users, and so there exists the possibility that they'll be logged. Under these circumstances, I think it is important to inform English speaking LJ users about this possibility, because otherwise we will just end up wondering what else we don't know about.

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[info]intrepia
2007-12-10 04:29 am UTC (link)
Now that SUP has bought LJ, it would be nice if someone would translate [info]lj_ru_support posts into English somewhere, for those of us who are curious but don't understand Russian. :-)

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[info]phoenixdreaming
2007-12-10 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Ooh, yes. It'd be quite a bit of work, but I for one would be very grateful if somebody would.

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+1
[info]hakeber
2007-12-11 12:22 am UTC (link)
I agree.

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[info]ontherunaround
2007-12-10 03:55 pm UTC (link)
New to this comm, but certainly sticking around. Hi!

This brings something to mind. One and a half year ago the Dutch equivalent to Facebook, Hyves (now 5 mln users), introduced a Gold Membership which included this exact feature. The storm of protest that broke out took the PTB completely by surprise. Its founder Raymond Spanjer, "feared for the end of the site". (here, in Dutch) Overwhelmed by the 'extremely emotional' responses they got, they had to work furiously to default every profile to opt out of it. Afterwards grovelling was done, through personal comments to each and every profile. This happened in spite of Hyves having tested the feature through and through and announcing it a couple of times. The damage control was successful, but it was still that: damage control.

If they are to offer this feature site-wide, I think it would be a wise move for LJ to avoid a mess like this by not just offering an opt-out, but introducing it with opt-out as default setting, the solution Hyves resorted to.

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[info]hakeber
2007-12-11 12:27 am UTC (link)
I agree that it would be wiser to make this an opt-in feature by default.

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[info]msilverstar
2007-12-10 09:44 pm UTC (link)
LJ Toys does a pretty similar job, and people seem to be resigned to it.

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[info]hakeber
2007-12-11 12:25 am UTC (link)
LJToys has it's shortcomings and is by no means a perfect solution. It is easily fooled by folk who tend to read someone else's flist, as well as by things like those blasted AOL proxies...

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[info]worldserpent
2007-12-11 05:42 am UTC (link)
An IP address tells you nothing, though, if it's one shared by many people, and LJtoys can be easily foiled by turning off images, or blocking their server. Also, it doesn't show the username, which is something only an internal tool could do with confidence. Since this one is run by the site itself, it's harder to avoid.

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[info]marta
2007-12-12 09:36 pm UTC (link)
Just as an FYI, that functionality will be turned off today. If you check back by tonight you should see that non-SUP users will not show up at all on this program.

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[info]worldserpent
2007-12-12 11:55 pm UTC (link)
Oh good. Thanks for the information!

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[info]camomiletea
2007-12-13 05:41 pm UTC (link)
I just saw a relevant announcement in sup_ru, which among other things says that.
http://community.livejournal.com/sup_ru/307395.html

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Plergb
[info]kayshapero
2007-12-14 01:12 am UTC (link)
But will it STAY off... Though it's kinda amusing watching Big Brother not only advertise but actively share the contents of his snooping...

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