ljchristians: Faith then and now: stronger or diluted?

todo_cambia (

todo_cambia) wrote in

ljchristians,
@ 2008-05-09 14:08:00

Current mood:

contemplative

Faith then and now: stronger or diluted?
I was just thinking: I learned in western civ this semester that the Protestant Reformation helped to spread literacy in that the Calvinists felt it was important for women to learn to read so that they could read the Bible.

This was also way before our modern time period of mass printing of novels and such. Now you can walk into a Christian book store and buy all kinds of books about the Bible containing all sorts of points of view: all kind of authors, like books by Joyce Meyer, Stormy Omartian, Donald Miller, John Piper, C.S. Lewis, Max Lucado, Tim LaHaye, the list goes on and on...

But back then they didn't have all these books. Maybe they had one or two prayer books or hymnals, and of course, the Bible (probably the King James version).

I was just thinking: while books by authors today like Piper, Lewis, and so on offer great depth of understanding on the scriptures, do you think that they (the early Protestants like Lutherans, etc and the Catholics) were better off only reading the Bible and discerning for themselves? Or are we better off because we are able to reference literature by great minds such as C.S. Lewis and so on? Because I was thinking, what about the books that are really just people's own modernized "versions" of christianity? Like, one might say that these books offer more deception than they do delving into the scriptures.

Also, if you look at how now the average Christian probably has much more liberal values than those of two to three hundred years ago. I mean, if you read sermons from way back then, it seems they focused more on repentance and salvation or damnation, whereas now it seems like sermons focus more on personal spiritual growth. I mean, obviously people's views change over the course of centuries but...

What do you all think? I am personally not sure. I think it's great we have so many references, but at the same time, some books written today are people's "versions" of christianity that have more to do with modern values and personal convenience rather than the gospel. So I say we're better off for having such an extensive amount of sources, but it can also be distracting from the Bible which can be bad in the sense that you don't want other people's opinions and agendas polluting your understanding of the Bible.
Like the Bible does say "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." Prov. 3:5

Thoughts?

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godsgirl619
2008-05-09 06:21 pm UTC (link)

I hear exactly what you are saying loud and clear. Personally I stay away from any literature other than the Bible when it comes to interpretation, clarification on verses, etc. I know the writers probably only write these books for the edification of the body but I also keep in mind they are written by man and prone to bias, etc. I took a course on Hermenuetics awhile ago and since then I have stuck to the Word, prayer, and meditation and counsel for help with a certain passage, if and when needed. It has not failed me. I know it can be dangerous to become dependent on my pastor or someone elses word, other than the Word of God. How sad it would be to find myself at the mercy of man!
The cultural Christianity that is rampant in the US today is def. showing itself in sermons and the word preached in some churches. What is funny is when my hubby and I found our now home fellowship we actually had other Christians tell us our pastor is a "hellfire and damnation" preacher and speaks to much about sin and hell!!! The majority of our congegation are parolees so he does stress salvation ,repentance, and the reality of Hell- a life seperated forever from God. It was refreshing to find our church and hear the truth preached after coming from a huge 'seeker friendly" church.
People's views may change over the centuries but our foundation in Christ does not and will not. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
I dug yous post!

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log_junkie
2008-05-09 06:25 pm UTC (link)

I think it is important to read the Bible for yourself, because I know personally that God can speak to us through scripture. However, I would be unable to discern the voice of God through the voice of the enemy if it were not for those who came before me and taught me the ways of God.

Theology, like any skill, is learned, and there is some aspect of craft to it. I wouldn't want to perform my own kidney surgery, nor would I rewire my house, because I am trained as a chemist, not a surgeon or an electrician. Similarly, I must rely on theologians to correctly interpret scripture for me. There is discernment involved in trusting a good theologian, just like there is discernment in picking a good surgeon or electrician. It is unwise to only rest in one's understanding of scripture. I'd also say it is unwise to not think about God on your own terms, too, since He desires a personal relationship with you. I think, as with all things, there is a balance to be achieved.

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	log_junkie 2008-05-09 06:26 pm UTC (link)
	And to add, I have read some amazing, life-changing literature by good theologians that have brought me tremendously closer to God. There is a lot of junk out there, but the junk is no reason to completely discount literature altogether. (Reply to this)(Parent)

sybbis
2008-05-09 06:57 pm UTC (link)

We all, in the end, have to decide for ourselves what we believe and don't believe. But reading other people's interpretations exposes us to ideas and interpretations that perhaps we wouldn't ourselves think of that might still resonate--either positively or negatively. In that way I think they can lead to a much deeper experience even if you don't agree with what you read from others.

I don't think it's just limited to books, though--it's the same basic question as how much your pastor, your Sunday school teacher, your parents, your friends, etc. should influence what you believe. I think that being exposed to a lot of different ideas is good and healthy, and I intentionally read articles and books by people I *know* I don't agree with in order to see where they're coming from and why they believe what I don't. They're fallible and I don't rely on one author or teacher to be always 100% right, but I can't rely on myself to be always 100% right either.

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vlion
2008-05-09 07:16 pm UTC (link)

The Bible is an inerrent expression of the Word of God. You have to be in the Scripture, guided by the Holy Ghost.

For what my opinion is worth, I don't think reading self-help books & doctrines this or dogma that is nearly as edifying as praying and reading Scripture. I don't have a beef with reading interesting books - they can provide excellent food for thought, but I do have a beef with just reading commentary about Scripture instead of Scripture. Lotta books out now that dilute or dumb down the the Gospel, and people rely on those too much, when the Lord's more interested in us moving into understanding scripture with His help, not with man's help.
Now, I'm not against exposition, or teaching, or pastoring, and so forth. Those are given for the mutual edification of the saints. They have a righteous place, but it's not good to promote them past where they should be.

We should all strive to be Berean-esque.

So, to sum up? Isaiah 30:21 succintly expresses how I strive to walk.

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todo_cambia
2008-05-10 01:03 am UTC (link)

I'd never heard of the Bereans before now and I looked it up. It's interesting though, it says in the wikipedia article that the "Bereans" of the protestant ref. apparently rejected the idea of the "Trinity," which (according to Wiki) "became the dividing line between them and mainstream christianity"

*shrug* Just thought I'd share that, 'cause it's interesting.

And I read Isaiah 30:21 - so you mean that you strive to walk as God tells you to? Or how the Holy Spirit tells you? (Sort of like, 'I'll cross that bridge when I get to it?')

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	vlion 2008-05-10 01:22 am UTC (link)
	The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead; He is God. I refer to the Bereans in the context of Acts, where they are commended for searching the Scriptures to check to see whether Paul was full of it. Reference. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%2017:11;&version=9; (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaeri 2008-05-09 07:25 pm UTC (link)
	i think that its great that you have a lot of books and information. always. education is never a bad thing. it just requires use of one's own brain to discern between good and bad thinking. too few people learn how to do that, unfortunately. (Reply to this)

	chaeri 2008-05-09 07:26 pm UTC (link)
	i think there is a lot of bad theology out there, but i also thinkt hat there is a lot of valuable theology as well. it takes knowledge and wisdom to know teh difference between the two. (Reply to this)

paul1149
2008-05-09 09:35 pm UTC (link)

Each generation has its own set of challenges. We're in the psychological age, the technological age, the information age, the age of specialization. We're in a prosperous time, but the family is under attack from all sides. A lot of these books have come along to help guide us through where we had not gone before. If there wasn't a need I doubt they would have come along.

I think life was simpler way back then - not easier; simpler - so they didn't need so much instruction.

That said, there is so much out there that we have to use it wisely, because it's easy to get distracted.

p.

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	todo_cambia 2008-05-10 01:04 am UTC (link)
	Thanks, I didn't think of it that way! That's true, we really are in a time when the nuclear family unit is under a sort of 'attack,' and I would agree that there is definitely a lot of moral confusion these days. (Reply to this)(Parent)

commentaries

chytha
2008-05-11 05:25 pm UTC (link)

I believe that in different times certain things get emphasized more than others and in our lives our views change as we mature and get more aligned with the full context of scripture. We come to understand that being a Christian involves not taking the "right" stands on issues but rather living out the character of Christ and His love for all. It means that we cease to live by do's and don'ts and exhibit the liberation we have in HIM - he has set us free and we should not live feeling that we have to live up to some standard for fear of losing his love.
Christ illustrated in his earthly ministry that he was not ashamed to be seen with anyone, and sometimes went out of his way to come near to those considered the "dregs" of his day (prostitutes, tax collectors, lepers) - not to condone their behaviour ,but to show compassion. We should do the same.
By the way,on using others commentaries on scripture, two points. One, as long as we make a point of spending time in the scripture there is no problem with reading/hearing others' takes on the passages. If that were a problem then we would have to stop attending services,because the pastors and teachers in our churches are doing the same thing - giving commmentary on scripture.
Secondly, in the pre-Reformation era (and during some of it as well) one of the problems in the church was that the people were not reading scripture. Both as a result of most being unable to read and the organized Church preventing "ordinary" people from reading scripture because they didn't trust the people to interpret it for themselves. And don't forget that there were people who were executed (Tyndale for one) for daring to translate the scriptures into the language of the people (as opposed to Latin, which was largely the language of the priests). We should celebrate that we have the scriptures in our own language to read .
And when they did have the scripture in the Reformation it was not likely to be the King James Version, since that didn't come out until 1611 (authorized by Kimg Jasmes I of England) and the Reformation began in 1517, almost 100 years before , with the 95 Thesis of Martin Luther.
The goal of commentaries is to make us think, but always ask the Spirit to guide you as you compare them with scripture , because He is the ultimate Guide to the "Guide book" :)

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