lj_releases: Release #50

marta (

marta) wrote in

lj_releases,
@ 2009-06-23 14:11:00

Release #50
We are releasing the first stage of a new in-browser messaging feature today. It will be announced in

news at a later date.

LiveJournal Messenger

This is a web-based messaging service in partnership with Windows Live ID. You'll be able to add contacts and chat with friends while on the LiveJournal site. Here is how to use it:

Use your existing Windows LiveID or sign up for one using your LiveJournal username
Enable LiveJournal Messenger in the Extensions tab on the Account Settings page
You will receive a confirmation email and will then be able to use your LiveJournal Messenger account
LiveJournal Messenger will appear in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen
Add contacts using their existing Live ID handle or their LiveJournal Messenger name (username@livejournal.com)
Your friends will be sent a notice, then will appear in your "Contacts" list once they have confirmed

Known Issues:

This feature is not supported in Opera
Some site copy needs updating

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(117 comments) - (Post a new comment)

	maidenus 2009-06-23 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	"This feature is not supported in Opera" Sadfase. S'ok - Go go Adium/Pidgin! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	vakkotaur 2009-06-24 12:51 am UTC (link)
	One more benefit of using Opera, it seems. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) -

ki_zu, 2009-06-24 07:47 am UTC (Expand)

Sneaky buggers

the_cynic
2009-06-23 08:00 pm UTC (link)

So, if you attempt to signup with your LJ username (on the register page linked above), you get a checkbox item that states: "I accept Microsoft service agreement and privacy statement. I agree to receive e-mail from Windows Live, Bing, and MSN with service updates, special offers, and survey invitations. I understand that I can unsubscribe at any time."

If I read that correctly, I can't accept the service agreement and privacy statement without agreeing to be spammed by M$???

Not cool.

(Also, that text needs its grammar cleaned up a bit)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Sneaky buggers foxfirefey 2009-06-23 08:33 pm UTC (link)
	That's the price, I imagine--otherwise what would MS get out of providing this service for us? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aveleh 2009-06-23 08:29 pm UTC (link)
	On sign-up, there's some awkward phrasing in the last sentence of: LiveJournal Messenger is at the right corner of any LJ-page. Your Windows Live ID is being created. Please wait the confirmation letter. Maybe "Please wait for the confirmation letter." (Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	azurelunatic 2009-06-23 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	And is it necessary to do anything with the confirmation letter? Or do we just wait for it? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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teshiron, 2009-06-23 08:33 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

aroihkin, 2009-06-24 12:01 pm UTC (Expand)

danceinacircle
2009-06-23 08:32 pm UTC (link)

- My "LiveJournal" group keep showing up and disappearing, and when it is there, it's always empty - do we need to manually add each one of our friends? If so, that's incredibly inferior to LJ Talk.

Edit: okay, um, so, people seem to be in the LiveJournal group before they're confirmed and added to my Contacts? Then they move to the Contacts group and the LiveJournal group goes away? That's bloody confusing.

- Do I need to create a danceinacircle@livejournal.com LiveID in addition to my current one? If so, that's not cool. There needs to be a way to forward them to each other.

Edit again: You can't resize the chat windows, and they're always on top, so if you have more than one, maybe two conversations, you can't see to do anything else.

And multiple LiveJournal tabs causes conversations to be lost, which effectively makes this feature unusable. I typically have 10 LJ tabs open at any one time, so there's no way to have a conversation.

And even if you have one tab, submitting a page or clicking a link makes the window go away, even if it's just for a minute, so you can't continue your conversation while you wait for the page to load.

More editing: My screen resolution is at 1280 x768, and I can only have 5 conversations at once. Any new conversation windows are opened off screen, where I won't see them until I happen to close another window.

Also, there's no way to alphabetize your contacts, from what I can tell. There's little to no settings at all to help make this usable from a user standpoint.

This is completely frustrating to me as a user. There is no way I can use this without vast improvements.

Edited at 2009-06-23 08:59 pm UTC

(Reply to this)

teshiron
2009-06-23 08:35 pm UTC (link)

LiveJournal Messenger doesn't gracefully handle switching between Firefox tabs when the tabs are both LiveJournal pages - it reloads the messenger window when each tab is brought to the front, which causes your conversation windows to close (and thus, any text that was sent is lost).

If you switch tabs to a non-LJ page, then back to LiveJournal, everything is fine.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	teshiron 2009-06-23 08:35 pm UTC (link)
	Also, people are randomly moving between my LiveJournal group and my Contacts group, and I'm not doing anything. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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danceinacircle, 2009-06-23 08:40 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

teshiron, 2009-06-23 08:44 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

danceinacircle, 2009-06-23 08:44 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

the_cynic, 2009-06-23 09:00 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

azurelunatic, 2009-06-23 08:37 pm UTC (Expand)

	kahlan_amnell 2009-06-23 08:36 pm UTC (link)
	I won't be using this feature. I barley use the messaging services I have, I don't need another one. (Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	arethinn 2009-06-25 12:17 am UTC (link)
	This. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

herbmcsidhe, 2009-06-25 05:04 am UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

rainbow_pubes, 2009-06-26 02:55 am UTC (Expand)

aveleh
2009-06-23 08:43 pm UTC (link)

My confirmation email contains my password. Even though I created a new one, and so this is the only thing that would be compromised, I'm really uncomfortable with it being sent out over email. One of the things I love about LiveJournal is that they're generally one of the best sites for protecting my password and account, so... yeah, no passwords over email, please.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	teshiron 2009-06-23 08:44 pm UTC (link)
	STRONGLY agreed!! Edit: Especially from the perspective of the Abuse team; we all know how likely users are to create a unique password for things... the last thing we'd want is for everyone's LJ password being sent out in plaintext because people were too lazy to make up a new one. Edited at 2009-06-23 08:45 pm UTC (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) -

azurelunatic, 2009-06-23 08:47 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

amanda, 2009-06-24 02:32 pm UTC (Expand)

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coffeechica, 2009-06-23 10:30 pm UTC (Expand)

soph
2009-06-23 08:45 pm UTC (link)

[Disclaimer: I have not signed up for this, and will not be doing so.]

I'm guessing that the Windows Live IDs are immutable, especially since you sign up for an account separately.

In this case, what would happen if someone were to rename their journal? I'm guessing they would instantly lose access to all their friends and other information associated with the account, and have to sign up for a new account. (and if chat logs are stored on the server, you'd lose access to those too)

Worse, if someone then renames to a deleted+purged username that had the service enabled previously, they wouldn't be able to use the service at all because the password defined in their LJ account wouldn't match the actual Windows Live ID password, and it wouldn't be able to log in. (This is, of course, better than if it just logged you in anyway, but it's still not good; the service would be unavailable to them at all.)

Am I correct with this?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

kou
2009-06-23 11:27 pm UTC (link)

Windows Live IDs can be changed through the Microsoft interface to another username. Access to the new e-mail is required to enable certain services such as Messenger, similar to LJ e-mail validation.

By default, a Windows Live ID can be reset by sending a link to associated e-mail address. If someone takes a journal that has previously had the service enabled, they can reset it with a Paid account which grants forwarding.

I assume that the old user will still have access to the @livejournal.com Live ID until the password is changed. Once the password is changed, the new user will have access to all the information that was previously on the account, including contacts and other Microsoft services.

Microsoft does provide an API to move-away accounts from an e-mail - this is implemented in Windows Live Admin Center ("Custom Domains"). When the ID is moved away, the next time the old owner types their password to sign in, they will be told "Your Windows Live ID is no longer valid" and forced to change their e-mail. The new owner can sign into the new account with their password.

I do believe, that if you try to create the new account with the same password as the one being moved away, it will complain, since it uses the password to determine if it's the "old" email-owner.

In any case, I do NOT recommend this product. I love the ease of use of Microsoft's products, but they are too easy to lose/modify permanently (unreversible account hijacks, Hotmail inactivity deletion, non-reversible Live Spacs profile changes, etc). Case in point, lost Hotmails are causing such a problem LJ is temporarily disabling password resets for ALL Hotmail users.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) -

gameboyguy13, 2009-06-24 07:45 pm UTC (Expand)

	azurelunatic 2009-06-23 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	Having trouble blocking someone; I finally had to allow them to make the message go away. Some random hotmail account. (Reply to this)

	imaria 2009-06-23 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	1. Agree to be spammed? Feature disabled. 2. I could not find where I could use my existing LiveID anyway, instead of signing up for one using my username. Perhaps it is the next page in the flow, but that was not made clear and I wasn't going to click the checkbox for spam to find out. (Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	azurelunatic 2009-06-23 08:48 pm UTC (link)
	It is indeed the next page in the flow, after signing up. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) -

imaria, 2009-06-23 08:49 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

nomoreprinces, 2009-06-23 09:01 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

azurelunatic, 2009-06-23 09:09 pm UTC (Expand)

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teshiron, 2009-06-23 09:11 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) -

nomoreprinces, 2009-06-23 09:11 pm UTC (Expand)

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nomoreprinces, 2009-06-23 09:10 pm UTC (Expand)

	aveleh 2009-06-23 08:47 pm UTC (link)
	If I go to https://www.livejournal.com/mlm/register.bml after having created an account, then the page just says "created". Some more text, and a link to http://www.livejournal.com/manage/settings/?cat=extensions would be helpful. (Reply to this)

	foxfirefey 2009-06-23 08:51 pm UTC (link)
	What might this mean for LJTalk? ::worriedface:: (Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	marta 2009-06-23 08:54 pm UTC (link)
	This is completely different from LJ Talk - other than upgrading some of the servers, there are no plans to change or deprecate LJ Talk, or to see this as a substitution. It's just another option, one that doesn't require a client. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) -

imaria, 2009-06-23 09:07 pm UTC (Expand)

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foxfirefey, 2009-06-23 09:45 pm UTC (Expand)

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kou, 2009-06-23 11:34 pm UTC (Expand)

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foxfirefey, 2009-06-23 11:48 pm UTC (Expand)

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tupshin, 2009-06-24 12:15 am UTC (Expand)

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foxfirefey, 2009-06-24 12:19 am UTC (Expand)

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coffeechica, 2009-06-24 03:28 am UTC (Expand)

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foxfirefey, 2009-06-24 03:29 am UTC (Expand)

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adamthebastard, 2009-06-24 12:48 am UTC (Expand)

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count_nemo, 2009-06-25 02:01 am UTC (Expand)

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radiantsoul, 2009-06-24 02:10 pm UTC (Expand)

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soph, 2009-06-23 08:54 pm UTC (Expand)

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azurelunatic, 2009-06-23 08:55 pm UTC (Expand)

astronewt
2009-06-23 08:53 pm UTC (link)

From a 'things that annoy me' perspective:

1) I don't like that the box doesn't go away if I'm not signed in. There should be a way to turn that off, even if I want the feature on. It is *really* distracting, and maybe I have a good reason for not wanting to be signed in, etc.

2) When I'm chatting with someone, it would be really nice to have just the timestamp on each line each person writes maybe. Two lines written by the same person in a row, the visual lack of distinction between 'this is a new line they wrote' is very strange.

3) Windows should definitely be resizeable and moveable around the screen. It should be user's choice as to size/placement, always.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From a 'possible bug' standpoint:

1) Sometimes when I click to sign in, I get a pop-up 'Windows Live' dialog/window, that then shows a red text 'There's a problem with the site you are trying to share your information with. Please try again later. (Internal server error)'. No other info given. I close that window, click to sign in again, it loads fine. If it's not important to show anything in that popup window/dialog above (on a successful load, I don't have to click anything there and don't ever actually see anything there, etc) -- why are we showing it at all?

2) I was clicking to other open tabs in Firefox (other LJ tabs), and noticed that the windows went away -- the 'main' LJ messenger window, plus one chat window itself. It seems like if you wait long enough on the new tab, the LJ messenger box will re-appear, but the chat window itself seems completely lost. Very bad.

3) To address #2 there, the LJ messenger window should have some sort of way to 'get to' any open chat windows, even if they've otherwise been hidden. A chat window should never be lost completely unless I've specifically closed it myself.

4) The password being sent to a new signup is a huge security risk. Huge. There is absolutely no reason for it to be sent. None. If people forget is, then can use whatever recovery system is (or will be) in place, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From a 'future documentation' standpoint:

1) With MSN, you can only be signed into MSN from one location. So if you're running, say, Trillian and you sign into LJ Messenger, you will be signed *out* of MSN over on Trillian. This is apparently the way MSN functions, but will be worth documenting specifically.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	azurelunatic 2009-06-23 08:57 pm UTC (link)
	Things that annoy me: not easily loggable. Dammit, if I'm chatting, I want a log unless it's deliberately off the record. If it's supposed to be integrated with LJ, it would be nice to have an automatic lj-cut private post every 63k or every day, whichever comes first. With timestamps. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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cesy, 2009-06-24 01:28 pm UTC (Expand)

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radiantsoul, 2009-06-24 02:07 pm UTC (Expand)

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kou, 2009-06-24 12:38 am UTC (Expand)

aveleh
2009-06-23 08:55 pm UTC (link)

On https://www.livejournal.com/mlm/register.bml - if I select that I do *not* want to post to my journal and select that I *do* agree to the terms, and then enter a password that does not meet the guidelines so that the page refreshes, it does not save my choices. I'm less concerned about this for the guidelines, but users who accidentally spam their friends (please remember that emails get sent out for tracked users) will be annoyed.

(Reply to this)

dawna
2009-06-23 08:59 pm UTC (link)

so I signed in on IE8 (shut up peanut gallery) and the list of contacts popped up and I changed the page and they disappeared and wont come back now. Snark managed to message me but if I shut the window down I likely wont be able to message her back. hahaha

Fun stuff. I suppose I shall try in firefox but I dont hold a lot of hope to be able to actually see my contacts lol

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

	azurelunatic 2009-06-23 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	oh, Microsoft. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

dawna, 2009-06-23 09:05 pm UTC (Expand)

	azurelunatic 2009-06-23 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	Anyone who wants to contribute to the documentation discussion and see what we already have going: http://community.livejournal.com/lj_userdoc/759241.html (Reply to this)

dawna
2009-06-23 09:11 pm UTC (link)

biggest fail so far IMO. I multitask, have 10 billion windows and programs open (ok like 5 at a time) but I switch between them and tend to refresh my flist a lot. Everytime I leave the page for another lj page window I have open, or comment or switch windows, I lose the conversation window completely. This makes it completely useless for me and I likely will be switching it off until its somehow fixed.

On facebook, the chat function not only saves your conversation indefinitely, it doesnt disappear if you refresh the page lol.

Edited at 2009-06-23 09:14 pm UTC

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	girlfight 2009-06-24 12:32 am UTC (link)
	yeah this. (Reply to this) (Parent)

astronewt
2009-06-23 09:12 pm UTC (link)

If my mouse is in the 'type the text here' area of a chat window, but have *not* typed anything yet, and I use my mouse's scroll button, it scrolls the actual large browser window. It shouldn't do that, it just shouldn't scroll anything at all at that point. (If you've typed a bunch of things in there, enough to have it give you a scroll bar for just the typing area, then it will properly scroll just that text if you wheely-scroll it in there.)

And having been using this now for about 20 minutes, etc, I will emphasize that it is the loss of the chat windows when you switch tabs that is the single biggest problem for me. It would render this feature completely unusable for me in any real world setting, and for any user that uses multiple tabs (which I'm sure is a huge percentage of users).

(Reply to this)

	mantriddrone 2009-06-23 09:15 pm UTC (link)
	quite possibly the dullest news i've heard all day (Reply to this)

	sorchasilver 2009-06-23 09:22 pm UTC (link)
	Nice idea, shame about the execution! The inability to cope with multiple LJ tabs makes this utterly useless to me. (Reply to this)

	astronewt 2009-06-23 09:25 pm UTC (link)
	One thing that is working as I would expect it to is that when I have a chat window minimized, the little icon changes to show the 'status' of the chat -- if i was the last person to talk, the icon is a little green button or whatever. When the other person then replies, it changes to a yellow speech button, so I can see at a glance that the person has replied. So that's nice. (Reply to this)

	flyboy_fox 2009-06-23 09:32 pm UTC (link)
	"I agree to receive e-mail from Windows Live, Bing, and MSN with service updates, special offers, and survey invitations." No thanks D: I get enough spam as it is. (Reply to this)

	crossbow1 2009-06-23 09:46 pm UTC (link)
	Too bad for us Linux users, I guess. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	foxfirefey 2009-06-23 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	Does it not work on Firefox on Linux? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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crossbow1, 2009-06-23 10:14 pm UTC (Expand)

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soph, 2009-06-24 12:27 am UTC (Expand)

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vakkotaur, 2009-06-24 12:50 am UTC (Expand)

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soph, 2009-06-24 01:17 am UTC (Expand)

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vakkotaur, 2009-06-24 02:31 am UTC (Expand)

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crossbow1, 2009-06-24 02:00 am UTC (Expand)

	asharose 2009-06-23 09:52 pm UTC (link)
	Cool! I'd like to use it on the actual Windows Live messenger rather than via the web, FacebookChat-styles. That way I can keep my main Windows Live account and not have to create a separate one for LiveJournal. But when I use my main Live account now, it logs me out of MSN when I switch over to check LJ. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	kitarou 2009-06-27 04:56 pm UTC (link)
	There are add-ons (such as Messenger Plus!) that allow for multiple Windows Live Messenger instances. I doubt I'll be using the LJ service though. Too little too late IMO. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	shatterstripes 2009-06-23 10:40 pm UTC (link)
	I am curious as to why y'all are working with MSN instead of hooking into the Jabber server LJ is already running! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	foxfirefey 2009-06-23 11:03 pm UTC (link)
	Probably because MSN already has the web-based software developed, and doing something on top of LJ's custom software would take developer efforts away from other things. I imagine it is easier and cheaper to sign up with MSN. Edited at 2009-06-23 11:08 pm UTC (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

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kou, 2009-06-24 12:35 am UTC (Expand)

(117 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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